RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: aghadowey on Wednesday 23 April 25 15:31 BST (UK)
-
Wondering how to get more details for a friend about a soldier with only his five medals to start with for clues.
The medals- from left to right-
1) North West Frontier 1936-1937 India
2306838 SJT. V. HOYLAND, R. SIGNALS.
2) 1939-1945 Star
3) The African Star (clasp- 8th Army)
4) The Italy Star
5) Long Service/Good Conduct (clasp- Regular Army)
2306838 SJT. V. HOYLAND, R. SIGNALS.
The man these belonged to was probably English but died in County Down, Northern Ireland or Belfast? (date unknown- haven't found an obituary but I was told he had no family so perhaps there was nothing in newspaper).
Any idea where to find more details?
-
Hi aghadowey,
GRONI Online gives the following. Is this his death?
D/1962/45/1007/11/325 Victor Hoyland 31st March 1962 58 Male Belfast
Occupants of grave C 489, Roselawn Cemetery
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=C&GraveNumber=489&CemeteryName=Roselawn%20Cemetery#MOVEHERE
Most Army records from WW2 are now with The National Archives.
See https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service/apply-for-the-records-of-a-deceased-serviceperson
-
When you say 'North West Frontier 1936-37' I assume you are talking about the Indian General Service Medal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_General_Service_Medal_(1936)) with the clasp of that name. He would have been on detached duty to the Indian Corps of Signals. This tends to suggest that he may have been either a wireless operator or a technician, since these trades were manned almost exclusively by British Other Ranks at that time.
As he was a career soldier I suggest contacting the Royal Signals Association's Northern Ireland Branch (which for security reasons you have to do through RHQ R Signals). Details here: https://royalsignals.org/royal-signals-association/branches/northern-ireland
Although he appears to have been born around 1918, unless you wanted to get a copy of his death certificate (based on the details Kiltaglassan has found) you may run into a problem getting his service record from the MOD without a dc (assuming that you actually want to pay £30 in the first place!). In fact as Kiltaglassan says, his records have probably already been transferred to TNA and will be released by them, via Ancestry in due course. Nothing comes up in a search at TNA at present.
-
Deleted - Not relevant
-
This young man appears in 1921 census in Dublin, as a telegraphist in the Army Royal Corp of Signals.
HOYLAND, VICTOR mmn WHEELER
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 530
SS
-
Posting this as a good possible for Victor. Sadly the GRO birth image not available as a £3 image. However, according to 1905 Workhouse (to be found on FindMyPast) record Victor had several siblings. Image of his brother Herbert attached.
Parents married
Marriages Sep 1899
Hoyland Joseph Portsea 2b 924
SMYTH Emily Elizabeth Portsea 2b 924 (previously Wheeler)
1901 census
Piece 1003
Folio 93
Page number 21
Household schedule number 147
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Emily Heyland 34 Head
Herbert Heyland 1 Son
Emily Heyland 7/12 Daughter
SS
-
deleted
-
Many. many thanks so far for all this information. The death in Belfast in 1962 is the correct man but the date much earlier than I was led to believe (from the person who got the medals via the person Victor gave them to).
With the death date I found the following-
1951- Belfast directory- The Straight: 21. Victor Hoyland, engineer (also 1955, 1960)
The person he gave the medals to was a neighbour and she and her husband are also listed in the same street.
Northern Whig, 3 Apr.1962: HOYLAND — March 31, 1962, Captain Victor Hoyland, 118, The Straight. Funeral from Wilton's Funeral Home. Woodstock Road, to-day (Tuesday), at 11 a.m., to Roselawn ...
Hoyland, Victor of 11B The Straight Cregagh Belfast departmental manager died 31 March 1962 at Musgrave Park Hospital Belfast Administration Belfast 25 June to Colonel Stanley Joseph Hoyland. Effects £978 13s. 5d.
Not sure if he came to Belfast for employment after the War or to do with his wife (supposed to have had no family and been unmarried but like Chinese Whispers the 'facts' aren't always correct).
Hoyland Agnes Young of 21 The Straight Cregagh Belfast died 19 September 1958 at the City Hospital Belfast Administration Belfast 27 November to Victor Hoyland assistant production controller the husband. Effects £23 0s. 6d
According to death reg. he was born c1904 but c1905 from cemetery records. Only close birth in England (none in Ireland) is a Victor Hoyland J/M 1904 Portsmouth dist. (mother's maiden name Wheeler) mentioned earlier.
Will keep checking more more details and probably view his death certificate in case there are any clues there.
-
In relation to his siblings maybe?-
Birth Jul-Sep 1900
HOYLAND Emily Catherine Portsmouth 2b 503
Birth Jul-Sep 1905
Hoyland Florence Adelaide Portsmouth 2b 468
Birth Oct-Dec 1908
Hoyland Elizabeth Marjorie Portsmouth 2b 488
FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
-
You can find him in 1921 in Dublin as a boy telegraphist with the Army Royal Corps of Signals.
-
I'm also wondering who the Colonel Stanley Joseph Hoyland who administered his estate in 1962 was.
You can find him in 1921 in Dublin as a boy telegraphist with the Army Royal Corps of Signals.
Interesting.
-
If the Victor born 1904 is the correct man, I have a feeling the father Joseph has left Emily and may have possibly married again (bigamously??) in 1906
Marriages Dec 1906
HOYLAND Joseph Walsall 6b 1344
LEADBETTER Amy Walsall 6b 1344
1911 census
Amy Hoyland Wife Married Female 31 1880 - Walsall Staf
Marjorie Hoyland Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Portsmouth
1921 census has Joseph/Amy & Elizabeth.
SS
-
This could be Col. Stanley Joseph Hoyland-
https://www.rlcarchive.org/jObit?ID=273
-
Info re Joseph Hoyland.
HOYLAND, JOSEPH mmn PERRY
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 117
Military records show born Harrow. 2 service no.s 257998 & 189500.
SS
Note address in 1938
-
Victor's army number must have changed at some point.
CSM (131459) to Lieutenant (TMO) in 1940:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34858/supplement/3178/data.pdf
Captain Victor Hoyland 131459 applies for medals in 1948 (including Africa and Italy stars):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62862/records/1399449
-
Victor's army number must have changed at some point.
131459 is his officer personal number allocated when he was commissioned.
CSM (131459) to Lieutenant (TMO) in 1940:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34858/supplement/3178/data.pdf
In case it's not clear from the Gazette entry which Shaun has found, he was commissioned as a Technical Maintenance Officer, that is to say the officer* in a signal regiment responsible for the maintenance and repair of all the electronic equipment and vehicles within the unit. After the formation of the REME in 1943, he would have no longer been responsible for the vehicle maintenance. A TMO was usually a commissioned former technician, so it is odd that in 1921 Victor was described as a telegraphist, which is/was an operator trade. Clearly though, at the time he was commissioned he was employed at regimental duty (ie out of his former trade) as a warrant officer class 2 company sergeant major (CSM).
*At some later date this title was changed to Technical Officer Telecomunications (TOT)
-
Marriage in Karachi, 9 Jan 1934, Sergeant Victor Hoyland RCoS (father Herbert) to Agnes Anderson Young Whitelaw (father George Muir Whitelaw). Both aged 30
-
Marriage in Karachi, 9 Jan 1934, Sergeant Victor Hoyland RCoS (father Herbert) to Agnes Anderson Young Whitelaw (father George Muir Whitelaw). Both aged 30
Just got the marriage from Scotland's People- Victor's address is Rawalpindi and Agnes' is Karachi.
-
Info only again if wanted?
Victor's sister Florence Adelaide married 1929 and names her father as Herbert Joseph Hoyland (deceased) Engineer.
Wonder if name Herbert was adopted after eldest brother as per Victors marriage as well ?
SS
-
1911 census at 7 Half Moon Crescent, Islington. Surname changed to Vickers:
Herbert Vickers senr 37 unemployed engineer born Southwark; married 12 years, 5 children all living.
Emily Elizabeth, wife, 39 born Southsea
Children: Herbert 11, Emily 10, Victor 7, all born Southsea, Hampshire, And Joseph, 1, born Southwark.
-
By 1921 census, Emily snr, Emily, Adelaide (Florence) and Joseph have reverted back to Hoyland.
VICKERS, STANLEY JOSEPH mmn WHEELER
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 776 Occasional Copy: B
This could be Col. Stanley Joseph Hoyland-
https://www.rlcarchive.org/jObit?ID=273
SS
-
London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1921
Looks as though Victor Vickers (dob 30.12.1903) is in Southwark Camberwell,Newlands Cottages Registers, 1903-1921 with his sister Emily dob 1900 in 1908,
by 6th April 1909 are Herbert, Emily & Victor are in workhouse, recorded as Baptists
20th April 1909, Herbert, Emily & Adelaide in workhouse, recorded as Baptists
There is also a Herbert Vickers aged 45 in 1913 in workhouse occ- **** fitter, abode 66, Leman Street, injury to face, Religion Baptist, wife Emily, abode 2 Herne Hill. Pentonville, N
SS
-
2 Herne Hill
That's probably 2 Hermes Hill - the address of Herbert Vickers in the 1915 electoral register and the address given by Herbert Hoyland junior for his family in his army WW1 papers.
-
2 Herne Hill
That's probably 2 Hermes Hill - the address of Herbert Vickers in the 1915 electoral register and the address given by Herbert Hoyland junior for his family in his army WW1 papers.
Thanks ShaunJ, as an aside have you looked into Joseph Hoyland the father. Iv'e got myself into a corner with him. The Joseph who married Amy Leadbetter in 1906 was aged 45 in 1921 and born Harrow. He died in 1932 and left a probate record that mentions Amy. However I still believe he is the same Joseph Hoyland who married Emily Elizabeth Smyth nee' Wheeler in 1899. What is throwing me with this is he was a Sapper on sons birth record and I posted earlier a letter he sent from the USA in 1938--6 years after he died. Any help to put this to rest for me would be appreciated. Also his service records record he had also married 2.6.1914 Montreal to a Jennie Blaine. Cannot find a marriage though.
SS
-
The Joseph who married Amy Leadbetter in 1906 was aged 45 in 1921 and born Harrow. He died in 1932 and left a probate record that mentions Amy. However I still believe he is the same Joseph Hoyland who married Emily Elizabeth Smyth nee' Wheeler in 1899. What is throwing me with this is he was a Sapper on sons birth record and I posted earlier a letter he sent from the USA in 1938--6 years after he died. Any help to put this to rest for me would be appreciated. Also his service records record he had also married 2.6.1914 Montreal to a Jennie Blaine.
The Joseph who married Jennie Blaine and joined the Royal Engineers in 1916 declared that he had not previously served in the British Army or Navy, so unlikely to be the sapper father of Herbert born 1899. I did also ponder over his apparent age on enlistment (27) but he seems to have added 10 years to his age by 1918.
-
Was offline yesterday so just now seeing all the new information posted. Will take me a while to read through and digest it all but many thanks for all the details found.