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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: Gigi on Tuesday 25 October 05 13:41 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
If someone's place of birth was given as Bongate in 1807, would this mean he was born in Appleby or in the parish of St Michael's which would include Hilton for example?
Thanks,
Gillian
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Hello Gillian,
I've a lot of person's who's birthplace is Bongate. They weren't born in Appleby.
It has to do with the parish of St Michael's as also person's I have were born in Brackenber, Hilton and Murton which seems to be in the parish of St Michael's too.
Regards,
Miranda
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Hi Miranda,
Thanks for your reply. I have been barking up the wrong tree I feel assuming my ancestor was born Appleby!!! His father was a farmer as well which I felt was a bit strang for Appleby!! I shall now investigate the parish of St Michael.
Ta,
Gillian
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Bongate is on the way into Appleby - very close to it. Appleby was the market town for the area and would have had lots of small farms around it. Indeed it still has.
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
I had assumed that Bongate was a district of Appleby but now know it means the parish of St Michael's as this is where they were baptised. Any ideas as to how I could find out where in Bongate they were born? Would the PRs have this info?
Thanks,
Gillian
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Hi
If you can search the PRs they might well have place of birth, or address at baptism. It varies from parish to parish. Some vicars were very good - especially if there were several families with the same surname and they put the address or occupation to distinguish between them. I have a copy of "Appleby at Work" which is a list of directory entries for Appleby and surrrounds 1784 - 1905. Which names are you looking for? Do you know their occupation?
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
Thanks for the offer. I'm interested in William Ellwood and his wife Anne Simpson who married in 1794 st Michael's. William was a farmer. I don't know where or when born. Their children were Mark, Thomas, William, John, Mary, Margaret and Elizabeth born 1997 - 1815 Bongate.
Could you also see if there are any Dovers of Hilton. William Dover was a miner. And also any Johnsons of Hilton. Thomas Johnson was a stone mason.
Thanks in advance,
Gillian
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Hello Gillian,
I don't know if you have noticed when using Ancestry for 1851 that places like Hilton and a few more from the north of Westmorland is missing.
I've contacted Ancestry about it but haven't had an answer.
By the way, did we met on Genes Reunited about Donkin Dover!
Have here a list of all the head of households with the name Ellwood and Dover in Westmorland.
Hope this helps you.
Miranda
Census Index of 1851
ELLWOOD, ELWOOD.
Shap. 51. Ann. 56. F. W. Appleby.
Kirkby Thore. 39. Barbara. 48. Schoolmistress. W. Lowther.
Bongate. 131. Barbara. 75. Lab Widow. W. Bongate.
Eamont. Bridge. 268. Elizabeth. 67. Innkeeper. W. Crosby Rav.
Dufton. 92. George. 38. F 136a. W, Long Marton.
Morland. 149. Isabella. 65. Charwoman. C. Cumwhitton.
Orton. 464. James. 44. Grocer. W. Orton.
Kirkby Stephen. 361. Jane. 45. A. C. Penrith.
Maulds Meaburn. 26. John. 16. Farm Serv. W. Reagill.
Asby. 522. John. 35. Manager 800a. W. Crosby Rav.
Stainmore. 281. John. 35. Owner & Occ 50a. W. Stainmore.
Crosby Rav. 12. John. 40. F 150a. W. Bongate.
Eamont Bridge. 268. John. 40. Carpenter JM. W. Crosby Rav.
Bongate. 125. John. 46. Ag Lab. W. Bongate.
Kirkby Thore. 39. John. 48. Blacksmith. W. Brough.
Soulby. 394. John. 51. LP 53a. F 16a. W. Brough.
Dufton. 83. John. 56. F 90a. W. Dufton.
Maulds Meaburn. 22. John. 59. Ag Lab. W. Crosby Rav.
Dufton. 89. John. 81. Ag Lab. W. Dufton.
Kirkby Stephen. 363. Joseph. 49. Inmate Workhouse. L Pilkington.
Mallerstang. 379. Mark. 40. Lab. W. Mallerstang.
Bolton. 140. Mark. 54. F 18a. W. Bongate.
Mallerstang. 378. Mark. 64. F 110a. W. Winton.
Winton. 305. Michael. 48. Schoolmatser. W. Soulby.
Bongate. 127. Michael. 81. Butcher LP. W. Stainmore.
Shap. 60. Peter. 50. Ag Lab. Ireland.
Knock. 60. Richard. 22. F 180a. W. Knock.
Maulds Meaburn. 27. Thomas. 21. Farm Serv. W. Green.
Gt Strickland. 95. Thomas. 22. Farm Serv. W. Morland.
Bolton. 139. Thomas. 34. F 30a. W. Bolton.
Maulds Meaburn. 26. Thomas. 48. F 75a. W. Bongate.
Bolton. 138. Thomas. 68. F 6a. W. Brampton.
Maulds Meaburn. 27. Thomas. 70. F 70a. W. Maulds Meaburn.
Sockbridge. 243. Thomas. 78. F 16a. W. Sockbridge.
Bongate. 126. William. 20. Ap Shoemaker. C. Newbiggin.
Gt Strickland. 96. William. 20. Serv. W. Strickland.
Newby. 111. William. 32. Ag Lab. W. Crosby Rav.
Dufton. 84. William. 33. A. W. Dufton.
Bongate. 122. William. 37. Ag Lab. W. Bongate.
Shap. 57. William. 37. Innkeeper Ag Lab. W. Crosby.
Bolton. 136. William. 38. Grocer Draper. W. Bolton.
Soulby. 399. William. 38. Tailor. C. Renwick.
Shap. 61. William. 56. F 10a. W. Crosby Rav.
Kirkby Thore. 39. William. 74. Former Blacksmith. W. Brampton.
DOVER.
Colby. 169. Ann. 68. A. W. Colby.
Scattergate. 172. George. 54. Ag Lab. W. Bongate.
Craosby Rav. 9. James. 26. Ag Lab. C. Renwick.
Scattergate. 170. John. 28. Shoemaker. W. Appleby.
Temple Sowerby. 32. John. 37. Lab. W. Bongate.
Milburn. 20. John. 42. Farm Lan. W. Milburn.
Temple Sowerby. 30. Joseph. 49. Leather Dealer. C. Newlands.
Bongate. 125. Joseph. 63. Innkeeper. W. Bongate.
Bampton. 326. Margaret. 65. F 8a. C. Kirkoswald.
Brough. 241. Robert. 30. Serv. W. Appleby.
Appleby. 156. Sarah. 80. Charity. W. Sandford.
Bongate. 134. Thomas. 27. Wool Teaser. W. Bongate.
Appleby. 142. Thomas. 65. Ag Lab. W. Appleby.
Appleby. 142. William. 70. Carrier Pauper. W. Bongate.
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Hi Miranda,
Yes we did meet on GR. Who can forget a name like Donkin Dover!!!!
Thanks the the 1851 data. No I didn't know that Hilton does not appear on Ancestry 1851! How strange!
Thanks again,
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
We've also met on GR.
I see on one of your replies there is a reference to an Index of 'Appleby at Work' 1784 - 1905. Does any one know where to obtain a copy?
I have also had difficulty in accessing the 1851 Census for the Hilton and Brackenber area through Ancestry.co.uk. I have just posted a new message on this site about it as I have had a very frustrating time with Ancestry trying to get an explanation. Has any one had a successful answer?
Judy
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I bought my copy of "Appleby at Work" from the Tourist Information Office in Appleby.
Andrea
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Hello All,
If someone's place of birth was given as Bongate in 1807, would this mean he was born in Appleby or in the parish of St Michael's which would include Hilton for example?
Thanks,
Gillian
The easy way to remember is that Appleby (St. Lawrence) is on the West bank of the Eden. Bongate (where the castle bondsmen lived - St Michael) is on the East bank. Today it's all Appleby.
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Hi SJTaylor,
Thanks for the info.
Gillian
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Hi
Thanks to everyone who has an "Appleby at Work" I think there are still some at the
Tourist Info at Appleby
Gigi
There is will for William Ellwood snr (Carlisle Archives) 1790
Williams Marriage 1794 as him at Langton, a sub district of Bongate St Michaels Appleby
at Marks birth 1796 they are at Gallow House but by the time mary arrives they are at
Crackenthorpe
A William in 1815 is a molecatcher!!!
and if I'm right William or an William was burried 1841 been born 1772
regards