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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: hourihane on Monday 31 October 05 10:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi
To all Hourihane and O’Brien families I had a email from a lady who told me that an Irish 'genealogist' told her that all 'Hourihan/e's from West Cork would originally have been 'O'Brien's'. As Hourihan was a 'sept' name -used for a particular branch of O’Brien’s if this is true and can anyone give me any more details.
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Hiya hourihane,
Life would be a lot easier if people would quote their sources instead of giving bits and pieces of information gathered here and there. Did the Irish genealogist quote her source to the lady who sent the email to you? If she did has the lady a note of the source. I've looked at a couple of sites to see if I can find a mention of it with no success to date. I got this information on O'Hourihan ... Ó hAnradháin which is also anglicised O’Hourihan from IrishGen.com (http://www.irishgen.com/surnames/details.asp?surname_id=725)
Best Wishes,
Christopher
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Hi Christopher
Thanks for your interest below is the actual email I received .
My cousin Shaun Bryan (now in Canada) made contact with John Hourihan/e of Dublin - from the message boards - about 3 yrs ago. We learnt his ancestor's b cert showed 'Hourihane-O'Brien' -showing that the name had been shortened.
An Irish 'genealogist' (Fahy) told me that all 'Hourihan/e's from West Cork would've originally been 'O'Brien's' as Hourihan was a 'sept' name -used for a particular branch of O'Briens.
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Hi all,
Just thought I'd update this thread. The joint DNA project that includes the surname Hourihane was launched in 2012. We have Hourihane project members with west Cork ancestry and we are waiting for results from a fourth member.
So far, our Hourihane results show a deep ancestry that is called South Irish. O'Brien has historically been associated with a Dalcassian genetic signature, and the O'Brien DNA project shows many O'Brien testers categorized as such. Other than some surname agnomina, we don't know any more about O'Briens with Cork ancestry in terms of their deep genetic ancestry.
There is also Hourihane lore floating around west Cork that the Hourihanes had Co Clare ancestry. The project is positioning itself to test that theory and is waiting for results of two Hanrahans with Co Clare ancestry, as well as a Tipperary result.
The Hanrahans in the project so far neither match the Hourihanes nor do they share the deep genetic ancestry of South Irish with the Hourihanes. Nor do these project members show a Dal Cais deep genetic ancestry. We have many mysteries on our hands!
Three or four Hourihane samples hardly constitute a representative sample of Cork. We could definitely use more samples - men descended from a Hourihane-O'Brien, men who were called Glassough, etc. In "Cork Resources and Offers" I post an offer for Hourihane men.
Our project website was remodeled this year. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~skibbgirl/HourihaneDNA/ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~skibbgirl/HourihaneDNA/)
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I have two fairly distant Hourihane connections on FTDNA and three possible distant connections on Ancestry.
Assume you've seen this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5roa5ik4l7mvsbl/Irish%20Type%20II%20explored%20through%20U%C3%AD%20Chairpri%20Aebda%20(Rev%200).pdf?dl=0
Jack O'Brien
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To: VK (i cannot reply to PM)
Given the genetic distance with the Hourihanes on FTDNA I would estimate that my O'Brien/Hourihane connection was perhaps 300 years ago. My earliest known O'Brien ancestor was Denis, born 1846, in Bandon, County Cork.
Jack O'Bien
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Hi Jack ...I can't remember if I responded to your earlier message … I've been away ..so thought I'd have another 'go' with my research..
You mention a 'Hourihane' connection with 'O'Brien' - which is my main interest! An elderly (Bryan)relative told me that our name was originally 'Hourihan-O'Brien')…. 'from a long way back'.
My ggrandfather George Bryan was born 'John Brien' in Dunmanway 1829 - parents John & Mary Brien (nee Leary).
I have found one sibbling 'Michael Brien' born Bandon c1832 - he too settled in London c1850.
I have had some help from 'Ireland Reaching Out' - and now have other sibblings born in various (Cork) places - Annakissey etc etc.
I have some (unwanted) marriage certs (London) -a Mary Ann Brien's father was 'Dennis' (so not mine) . (I think it was a popular name)
Can you see any possible link with my 'Michael' born Bandon to John & Mary (O) Brien (nee Leary)?
Unfortunately seems that DNA testing is more suited for male family members.
Valerie
WAustralia
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Hi Valerie,
It's all frustrating because all I know is that
1. Denis O'Brien was born in Bandon in 1846.
2. His brother Cornelius was born within five years of 1846. That's all I know about the O'Brien family in Ireland, so unfortunately do not recognize any of your names.
3. They emigrated to Conshohocken, Pennsylvania, US, around 1868. There may have been other O'Briens in Conshohocken that preceded them, but I do not know who they were.
4. Hourihanes and my O'Briens are either related or were derived from each other, or both. This may have happened 200-300 years ago.
Have you uploaded your DNA to any site? I am on FTDNA, Geni, MyHeritage, gedmatch genesis, and Ancestry. I am distantly related to Hourihanes on FTDNA and Ancestry, at least. If you do use of of those sites, upload your DNA to gedmatch genesis, if you haven't done so, and I can probably find you if there is a relationship.
You do not have to be male for most of those sites. For example, FTDNA has a Family Finder for everyone. yDNA is for males, but mtDNA looks at female lines, although mutations are less frequent there.
Great talking with you.
Jack
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Thanks Jack.
I haven't had my DNA taken - yet. I'm not sure whether I'd be good enough. I seem to resemble my mother's side ... whereas a sister shows more of our Irish side. (not sure if I'm making sense!)
I guess I need to give it more serious thought. Do you think one testing Company is more preferable than others? ('Ancestry' &/or 'Find my Past')
Valerie
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Actually, once you have tested with one company you can upload your results to many of the other companies. However, I'm trying to upload to findmypast from FTDNA and/or Ancestry and am having difficulties. But I'm sure I will get it.
I wouldn't worry about which side would dominate. It's random, so the chances that would happen are really slim. It's like flipping a coin and getting 10 heads (or whatever, depending on your country) out of 100 tries. The chance of that happening is infinitesimal. My brother and I are very closely related, DNA-wise. But we do have somewhat different relationships with more distant relatives.
Jack
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Thank you Jack. I will get back to you WHEN I've taken that next step!
Valerie
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Through atDNA clusters I have come across my wife's MANNING family also went by the name of BRIEN. These are the ones around Dunmanway in West Cork. As an example, a daughter was baptised as MANNING but married as BRIEN.
I understand the agnomina "Mangan or Mongan" for BRIEN Mangan, as an example, was anglicized to MANNING to explain this. I believe in this case, Mangan may mean "hairy".
I am actively crossmatching atDNA from descendants in this cluster if anyone want to contact me about it. See "My Irish Genealigy" on Facebook.
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Chelan 90. I am interested in O'Briens from Bandon. My 2x great grandfather, Jeremiah O'Brien was born in Bandon circa 1833.
keith
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Hi Keith,
A brief description of Denis (and his brother Cornelius) O'Brien is on an earlier post in this group. Unfortunately I have not found any birth records for them in Bandon. I have come across two very distant O'Brien relatives through FTDNA. Their ancestors are John O'Brien, born in the 1800s in Bandon and Jeremiah O'Brien born c. 1830s in County Cork.
Denis had a son named Jeremiah. There was another Jeremiah O'Brien in Conshohocken, born in the 1820s in County Cork, came over in 1853 and died in 1883.
Jack
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Please forgive me for not responding earlier Jack! That is most kind of you! These names are a great help. Within the last week, I have discovered that one of my maternal great, great grandmothers, was a Mary Hourihan, from Caheragh parish. The O'Brien connection is on my late father's side of the family, however, I am sure that I have seen an O'Brien connection to Mary Hourihan.
Diolch yn fawr/ GRM / thanks again!
Keith
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Hi Keith,
I recently came across a possible source (Ancestry) for my O'Brien family (under the name of Brien). Here are the names of the siblings. Your Jeremiah may be one of them. Are you on any DNA site so that we can see if we are related?
Jack
Margaret, baptized February 5, 1831
Honora, baptized May 10, 1836
Cornelius, baptized March 8, 1839
Denis, baptized April 28, 1842
The parents of each were Bartholomew O’Brien and Margaret Lane.
A fifth possible child was Jeremiah, baptized August 21, 1833, also in Bandon. The parents were given as Prut Brien and Margt Laure
Denis could be my great great grandfather. I just came across a Hourihane who shares my haplogroup.
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Hi. My family tree is available on My Heritage and I did my DNA test with this company too.
My Gedmatch Number is UG6563257
Hope this helps.
Regards. Keith
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No luck on either site. We have matches in common, but that doesn't mean we match each other.
Thanks
Jack