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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: 1000xlch on Wednesday 09 November 05 20:42 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
Can anyone tell me if the Kings Royal Corps was in fact the Kings Royal RIfle Corps as my ancestor was a Color Sergeant in 1882 at Preston in Lancashire. Trying to find what battles he may have been in to prove a link with parentless children in 1881 census in Winchester Barracks all born in India which I think are his family as he was a widower when he married in 1882.
Thanks
John Rowley
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john what was his name,mack
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Hi Mack
Hi name was Harry Boxall aged 36 in 1882, he was a widower when he married 3 feb 1882, address is in Preston, Lancs and his occupation is Color Sergeant in Kings Royal Corps. His father was Henry Boxall (deceased) occupation Gardener on his marriage cert.
Thanks
John Rowley
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Hi John, is this him?
The Times, Tuesday, Feb 13, 1900
The Siege of Ladysmith
"A telegram from the General of Communications, Natal, reports the following casualties at Ladysmith:- ........2nd King's Royal Rifle Corps.- ....4449 Col.-Sgt. H. Boxall died February 7 of wound received January 6."
Margaret :)
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i have the same man in the south africa war casualty list,nice one margaret,mack
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Hi Margaret and manmack.
I believe this may be him as his son went to South Africa around Cape Town area. I am assuming the Kings Royal Corps was the Kings Royal Rifle Corps. H Boxall was a colopr sergeant therefore this must be him.
Thanks a lot for the info.
Cheers
John Rowley
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Just saw this topic by chance as it mentioned the KRRC and my ears always bristle when a regiment who served in the Afghan war is mentioned.
The 2nd Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps were the 60th Regiment before 1881, and the medal roll for the Second Afghan War (1878-1880) lists:
no.1074, Colour Sergeant Harry Boxall - no clasps.
No clasps is of interest as most of the rest of his regiment marched from Kandahar to Kabul in the spring of 1880, earning the clasp for Ahmed Khel en route, and then marched back to Kandahar in August, earning the Bronze Star and a clasp for Kandahar - but none of these for Harry. He is not listed in the casualty roll either, but maybe sickness put him out of action. Anyway - he did get the Afghan War medal, so served at some point in the campaign.
The KRRC arrived at Quetta 23 Dec 1878 and Kandahar on 8 Jan 1879. They did suffer from cholera outbreaks and had some hard marches in southern Afghanistan. The regiment marched with General Stewart to Kabul, as previously mentioned, in April 1880, seeing action at Ahmed Khel and Arzu, before reaching Kabul. In August they returned to Kandahar and fought at the battle there in 1 Sep 1880. They marched out of Afghanistan shortly afterwards, reaching Quetta again on 19 Sep and Sibi on 7 Oct. Throughout the campaign they marched over 2000 miles.
If you have any more info on Harry Boxall, please consider submitting some details to the Afghan war database project:
http://www.angloafghanwar.info/marchtokandahar/kk_project.php
... and let me know if there's anything else I can tell you. Many thanks -
Garen.
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Thanks Garen
You have made my day as well as the rest on this post. I knew he was in the regiment for a while but have no exact dates except his age at marriage was 36 in 1882. Any idea how I can find when he joined up? Trying to find him in any census in the UK without success. 1901 he is already dead but cannot find his wife Charlotte who married him in Preston, Lancs in 1882. Would the wives have gone out to the war as well?
He was a widower in 1882 so he must have had a first wife who died before 1882 but cannot find any marriages yet.
Any help appreciated.
Cheers
John Rowley
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Hello John,
The answer to all this will be in his service record, if it has survived, and that will reside at the National Archives, Kew. Until then we can only guess, or go on the very limited evidence which all seems to come from his marriage certificate and his death, kindly supplied by Margaret and manmack. I guess you don't have his birth (about 1845-46?).
The children you mention at Winchester - I think, and I'm not an expert, that Winchester was one of the depots for the King's Royal Rifles. As to when Harry joined up, it would depend, but most men joined the army at about 19 or 20 or so, so perhaps the mid 1860s.
The 2nd King's were in Ireland in 1866, India 1867, Afghanistan 1878, India 1880, to South Africa in 1881, then England (Davenport) 1882, so this would tie in with a marriage in that year. They were in Ireland again 1888 (Enniskillen), Gibraltar 1891, Malta 1895, Natal 1897 and the second Boer War in 1899. If he did join in the 1860s, that's long service.
To find him on a UK census domestically, you'd have to check the 1851 and 61 census returns. By 1871 he was probably in India (unless he was a later draft). Some wives did go out with the army (one married man per 12 infantrymen), and he could well have married and had his children in India. No wives went on campaign in Afghanistan after the disasters of the first Afghan War, but they would have remained at the depots (I think Mirat for the KRRC), as many did. Fever took a few of these too. Did Charlotte have an unusual surname? It was not uncommon for a soldier to return to England and marry a comrade's sister, or even wife if his comrade died in service, and it might be worth checking the medal roll for her surname, just in case, though it won't be conclusive.
These are just some ideas, and I'm mainly going on the experience of a few other soldiers' stories, which may not mean much!
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Hi, John. do you have any details of charlotte from the marriage certificate.
I presume it was Charlotte Riordan?
Do you have Date of birth or place, might help to find Harry.
Kev.
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Hi Kev
Yes it was Charlotte Caroline Riordan aged 21, father was Michael, occupation Army Pensioner. Cannot find her anywhere in UK as the one I have is the wrong one in London as a Civil Servant which she is alos in 1901. She is proving difficult to track and Harry as well as no idea where born. Looke up the address on the marriage cert as 2 Crooked Row, Preston for him which does not exist in 1881. Only no 1 which is unihabited, then 3 and 7! ::) She is living at 63 Bootle Hill, Preston at marriage in 1882 and again does not exist in 1881 census.. Very difficult to trace any more unless I can find a census hit. Only found one birth of a Charlotte in Hackney in 1862 on free bmd.
Any help appreciated to crack this brickwall!
Thanks
John Rowley
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I bet shes Irish!!! Very irish name and father Michael.
I will have a look around and see if i can dig up anything.
Kev. ;D
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Thanks Kev
Much appreciated.
John Rowley
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John, don't know if i'm missing something here.
The H. Boxall that died at Ladysmith, do you think that is yours or did he have a son Harry.
Yours would have been 54!!!
These are the ladysmith details:
Found the details of a death certificate.
Harry Boxall Age: 30 Station:Ladysmith Year:1900 Page:510
Is this a son? Or a completely different Harry Boxall?
He has a different number than the one Garen has listed also.
Kev.
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Hi Kev
That is interesting as the only child I have of Harry is William Nathaniel Boxall born dec 11 1882 in Kensington Barracks, London. He married in South Africa.
Harry is listed as Color Sergeant in KRRC in 1882 when he marries Charlotte Riordan in Preston. He is aged 36 a widower and she is 21 a spinster. Previous post on this thread states H Boxall Color Sergeant KRRC died at Ladysmith. I assumed it was the same one as mine which indeed make him 54. This is odd given the army early retirement age!
Any thoughts?
Thanks
John Rowley
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Hiya, could it be the Harry Boxall who was born in 1870 in India who you think might be the child of you Harry who married Charlotte [ but was already a widower]. He would be 30 in 1900
phew! I'm confused now
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Caroline BOXALL (Head) U Female 13 India Scholar
Maud BOXALL (Sister) U Female 5 India Scholar
Harry BOXALL (Brother) U Male 11 India Scholar
Percy BOXALL (Brother) U Male 9 India Scholar
Claude BOXALL (Brother) U Male 3 India
~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
Institution "Barracks" Winchester
Census Place Winchester, Hampshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341301
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1233 / 139
Page Number 21
Margaret :)
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Hi MarMnkly
I was just coming to that conclusion over dinner! But that would mean both were Color Sergeants in the same regiment! Possible of course as aged 54 he should be retired!
The plot thickens. Certainly the older Harry was in the Afghan War. Cannot find him in any census in the country at the moment!
Cheers
John Rowley
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well, forget the 1871 cos looks like he was producing kids in India from 1868 to 1878!!! ;D
I think you have the dad (no.1074). But how can they be his kids if he married in 1882 but on the 1881 census it says those kids are the family of deceased soldier? so he wouldn't be alive to get married?
The son (no.4449) is the died 1900 for sure.
Kev.
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Hi Kevwood
That is an interesting conundrum. I am assuming that because she is in Winchester barracks herself with other children that the mother is already dead but father is away at war somewhere but in 1882 comes back from Afghan War and remarries as he is a widower in 1882 and his father is already deceased (Henry the gardener). I cannot find Henry anywhere in the country as do not know where to look, because I think he is UK being a gardener. Nearest one found for me was in 1851 but Harry was listed as 9 when he sould be 5 (b1846). Does it actually state kids of deceased soldier on the info? If so then I will have to rethink again! :o
John Rowley
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Well it is a bit confusing, as there are brackets drawn round the Boxalls but at the top just on the edge of the bracket is Emma Boulter widow born Portsmouth 1863 (age 18!!!) and underneath the boxalls but in the brackets are Alice Crabb age 8(born India) and Ellen Cox age 13(born H.M.S euphrates).
And to the right it says .Families of deceased soldiers.
So i dont know ???
Kev.
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Found these.
Overseas army birth registers.
Claude A Boxall 1878 born Fatehgarh Unit 60th (1075 8)
Harry Boxall 1870 born Benares Unit 60th (1076 may be 1075 34)
Maud V Boxall 1876 born Meerut unit 60th (1075 2)
No Caroline of right age or Percy of right age.
You could order the Harry birth certificate and see mother and fathers name and then you would know.
Kev. ;D
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Can you keep up!!! :P
Maud and Percy are in the 1891 census as the niece and nephew of Elizabeth Digly living in Leeds.
Don't know if that helps?
Kev.
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Thanks Kev
I presume I can order from the BMD in the UK at Southport? or is it elsewhere?
This would confirm who the parents were and probably the first wife.
Cheers
John Rowley
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Yes Kev
Trying to keep up as you posted before me!
Any chance of the whole household to see if I can connect them?
Cheers
John Rowley
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Ellen Cox age 13(born H.M.S euphrates).
The 60th Foot (2nd KRRC) embarked at the Suez on HMS Euphrates on 4 Oct 1867, bound for Calcutta. They reached Fort William, Calcutta on 20 Oct 1867.
The 2nd KRRC left for Meerut on 8 Feb 1876, some of the battalion were at Fategahr, also true in 1878.
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John there is loads of stuff.
Claude is married in 1901 in leeds.
Percy is married with kids in 1901 census.
Caroline is a servant in 1891.
There is loads tell me what you would like, and i will try to get it all.
Kev.
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1891:
Caroline Boxall servant in Leeds at the Bull and ? hotel.
Born Calcutta, India 1868.
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Transcribed as Digly but should be Digby
Elizabeth Digby 50 widow chichester, sussex
Edith 18
Elizabeth 17
Arthur 10
Alfred 6
Emily James (daughter) 25
William James(son in law) 25
Emily Henrietta James (Granddaughter) 1
Maud Boxall (niece) 15
Percy Boxall Nephew 19
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1901:
Percy A Boxall 1873 Peshawar,India
Clara (wife) 1876 Leeds
Harold c 1899
Harry 1890
Harold Brook 1831 Father In Law.
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The Digbys in 1881 :
Elizabeth is married to Robert born 1838 halston, Essex.
With them is Emma Over sister. Unmarried.
I checked the 1851 and Emma Over is with her sister Elizabeth Over 1841 chichester so looks like Elizabeth digbys maiden name was over.
By my reckoning if Maud and Percy are her niece and nephew then either one of Robert Digbys sisters married a Boxall or Emma Over did.
Which are Ellen Digby 1831 Halstead or Emma Digby 1836 Halstead, Essex
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Hey Kev!!
Anybody would think you played cricket or something ....... ::)
I guess Robert " bowled a maiden Over ".... !
Sorry couldn't resist !! ::)
Annie
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Nice one Liverpool annie
Many Many thanks Kev for the census info. This helps a lot. :D
Much appreciated sorting this conundrum out a bit more for me.
May be able to help you sometime
My other half say yippee and many thanks
See you anon
John Rowley
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I've just been reading this series of messages and I think I may have another or similar problem. I received an email requesting help in finding the name of a Mr BOXALL who married an Elizabeth Ann ? All I'm given is that her 2nd husband ? BOXALL could have been born in Sussex. She may have married him in South Africa around about 1896, unless they met and married in India where Elizabeth's first husband and first two children died. Caroline was born in South Africa abt 1895; and Emma (called Elaine first name was Emma) was born in Malta abt 1896. They came back to live in Yorkshire. ? BOXALL died before 1901.
With these few clues I found Elizabeth with the two girls in 1901 living in Farnley, Yorkshire. I found Emma E. (birth/Baptism) 1895 no parents named just a note that states 60th Regiment; in Naples, Malta.
Any chance this could be the same BOXALL that is being looked for and a second marriage for him?
I'm researching BOXALL's World Wide as a One name Study and would love to answer this riddle.
Thanks
Ronnie