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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: Laurina on Wednesday 30 November 05 23:23 GMT (UK)

Title: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Laurina on Wednesday 30 November 05 23:23 GMT (UK): James Newberry married Martha Cannon in St Marys, Hitchin, Herts on 5 Sep 1849. On his marriage certificate it says his father was Joseph Newberry. In the 1851 Census it says James was born in Holwell about 1831.

I have struggled for the past four years to find parents for James. The only James Newberry I can find born in Holwell in 1831 is the son of Thomas Newberry and Mary Oakley. So I have eliminated him - am I correct in doing this? Where else can I look?

Any suggestions please ... it's really irritating me now!! >:(
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: cathymcc on Thursday 01 December 05 04:34 GMT (UK): Hitchin is in Hertfordshire not Bedfordshire - try going to the Hertfordshire list...go to England Counties [above this page]

Try the http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

+ the IGI batch numbers for Hertfordshire in case any of their children were christened in Hitchin.

You have the cccensus for 1851 - that should tell you what county they were in & which place & county they were born?

regards

cathy
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Thursday 01 December 05 06:46 GMT (UK): Have you tried locating him in 1841 when he should, with a bit of luck, have still been living with his parents?

At that time Holwell was still in Beds - it wasn't transferred to Herts until 1897

HO107/003-08 folio 6A
Cadwell, Holwell
Mary Newberry 45 Not born in county ie not born in Beds
William Newberry 30 Born in county
Sarah Newberry 24 Not bic
Mary Newberry 15 Bic
Thomas Newberry 13 Bic
James Newberry 11 Bic
Jane Newberry 9 Bic
Maria Newberry 1 Bic

There's a Mary Newberry baptised in 1826 in Holwell, then Thomas, James and Jane all baptised in Ickleford all at the right times, all children of Thomas and Mary.

A Thomas Newbury was buried at Holwell on 15 Dec 1833 age 44. There were no Joseph Newberry's buried in either Herts or Beds at the right time and of the right age.

So in response to your question. No I don't think you were correct in eliminating the baptism in 1831 in Ickleford. But there were a lot of Joseph Newberrys in Ickleford so I would also ask for alook up in Ickleford on the HErts board in 1841 to see if there any more James Newberrys

Regards

David
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: Laurina on Thursday 01 December 05 09:55 GMT (UK): Thanks for that David,

Unfortunately I only have Herts 1841, not Beds 1841. I wasn't sure when Holwell was transferred to Beds so have added this topic to both counties.

The family you found belong to Thomas Newberry (Newbury)who died in 1833. Mary his wife is Mary Oakley. The eldest son William is Thomas' child from his first marriage. The youngest child, Maria is a grandchild.

Thanks for checking deaths for Joseph Newberry, it's strange no one can find a record of him.

I live in hope of finding him soon :)
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: johnP-bedford on Tuesday 20 December 05 20:55 GMT (UK): Laurina

I was looking into a topic posted on the Northamptonshire lookups - for Tomlin of Wellingborough. On 1851 census a William Tomlin b 1811 Wellingborough, a Tailor, is lodger with a family of Newberrys in Hitchin Hill, Hitchin Herts. These are :-

Sarah Newberry, Head b 1816 Hitchin
Mary Newberry, Sister b 1826 Hitchin
both Unmarried - & I guess are the daughters of Thomas Newberry & Mary Oakley
In this family are daughter Maria Newberry age 10 , son John Newberry age 43 & son George Newberry age 1. Looking at the IGI found Maria & John listed with second name Tomlin, & mother as Sarah Newberry. So are these the children of William Tomlin & Sarah Newberry ?

Living next door in Hitchin Hill is James Newberry b 1831 in Holwell, a Bricklayers Labourer, wife Martha, & son George.

I am assuming these 2 households are related & thus James is also son of Thomas & Mary.

So is there another James son of Joseph, who by chance also married a Martha ; or is the same person that you are looking for ???

regards John
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: Laurina on Wednesday 21 December 05 15:20 GMT (UK): This is the correct James who married Martha Cannon. On their marriage certificate James' father is named Joseph Newberry. I can't find A Joseph Newberry who is the right age to be James' father. The family next door are children of Thomas Newberry and Mary Oakley - so I can't see a connection apart from simply neighbours. I can't find Joseph in the 1841 Herts Census and don't have access to his birth record in Holwell parish in 1831.
Title: Re: The mysterious James Newberry
Post by: Peggy on Sunday 10 September 06 16:04 BST (UK): YOU MIGHT GIVE THIS WEB PAGE A TRY. WWW.GENCIRCLES.COM. JUST ENTER THE NEWBERRY NAME, YOU MIGHT FIND JAMES AND HIS FATHER. GOOD LUCK
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Anne C on Tuesday 15 May 07 19:47 BST (UK): :) Have you found out any more about James Newberry? I am a descendant of Thomas Newberry and Mary Oakley. My family tree goes as follows: Thomas Newberry was married 1st to Frances Hull, with whom he had William (b.1810) and Mary (b.1812). Mary Oakley was his 2nd wife, with whom he had Sarah (b.1816), Daniel (b.1817), John (b.1819) - my ancestor, Francis (b.1821), George (b.1824), Mary (b.1826), Thomas (b.1828) and James (b.1831 at Holwell). Ickleford is apparently now part of Hitchin, and Holwell is very close by. In some censuses they appeared not to distinguish between them, as John Newberry's son George (my g.g.g.father) is shown variously as having been born in both of them! Hope I have been of some help.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Laurina on Tuesday 15 May 07 20:33 BST (UK): Hi Anne

I haven't made any progress with this line at all. I have eliminated Thomas Newberry and Mary Oakley as parents mainly as James's father was named as Joseph Newberry on his marriage certificate.

Thomas and Mary had a daughter Jane christened with her brother James in 1831

I can trace your line back a few more generations to Joseph Newberry and Arabella Ansell as well as forward a little too. I have John married to Alice Field with six children, their eldest child George married to Grace Jenkins with four children, three of which I have marriages for. Alice married Henry Jelley, Grace married William George Monnery and emigrated to South Africa, James married Mary ? I don't have a marriage for their other daughter Margaret Newberry.

Best wishes Laurina
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Anne C on Tuesday 15 May 07 23:21 BST (UK): Hi Laurina
What a fast reply. Yes I have the line back to Joseph Newberry and Arabella Ansel. You don't have Margaret Newber(r)y, because she died in Southampton aged 10. I looked for her marriage for a long time before I discovered this on Ancestry some time ago. Grace Newbery was my great grandmother - my mother remembers her well, and she has dimmer memories of Will Monnery (William George), who was her grandfather, as he died when she was quite a young child. All Monnerys in South Africa (and there are quite a lot of them) are descended from Grace Newbery. A person contacted me from Australia last week with the news that a certain Daniel Newberrry (born in 1815, son of Richard Newberry, b 1772) was transported to Australia for stealing iron. He had a daughter there (also Margaret), but there are no descendants with the name Newberry. However, there seems to be quite a big family there, as Daniel's cousin Thomas Omant, son of a Newberry mother, was also transported with him. Regards, Anne.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Peggy on Friday 18 May 07 18:31 BST (UK): Hi Laurina, I have some information on some of the Newberrys, my interest being a connection with the King family of Hitchin, Herts. Contact me at Twnie21@AOL.com and you can down load what I have.

Peggy
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 16 July 08 17:54 BST (UK): Hello:

My surname interest is Newberry and I found your posts for Bedforshire. My James Newberry is evident in the U.S. having been born in New York in 1791. I am currently trying to go backward through time and see if I can locate the parents of his first ancestor in America who was Richard Newberry born ca. 1620?. I am looking at one family that may have come from Berkshire, but I am still in a metaphorical whirlpool with this family trying to sort things out. Have you been able to work out your history back to the 1600's? Do you know of any immigrants to New England for your Newberry clan?

Thanks for answering.

Sue
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Laurina on Wednesday 16 July 08 18:23 BST (UK): Hi Sue,

My Newberry's go back to the early 1700's. They are all based around Herts and Beds - a lot of people are researching them but most have got stuck at the same couple Joseph Newberry who married Arabella Ansell in Ickleford, Hertford, England on 24 Oct 1733. I don't have any American connections as far as I can see.

Good luck with your research.

Laurina
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Anne C on Wednesday 16 July 08 18:33 BST (UK): Hello Sue
Sorry, no knowledge of emigrants to America from the Bedfordshire/ Hertfordshire Newberrys, although there are descendants in Australia and South Africa. A couple of years ago when I started researching my family history, a man on GenesReunited said I should investigate a village called Preston Capes, so I googled it. The spelling there was Newbery, and I could find no connection with my family there, but maybe you could.

Good luck!
Anne C.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 16 July 08 19:16 BST (UK): Thank you Anne and Laurina for your replies. Do either of you have knowledge about the following Newberry people? I am especially interested in Walter in this list. We have two unplaced Newberrys here in the early New England history, that is, we don't know where they came from originally. One is Walter of Rhode Island, and the other is Richard of Weymouth, MA.

I suspect they actually come from co. Dorset, but the Walter in this list is a possiblity because of his birth date.

Thanks so much ladies.

[Christenings at West Ilsley, Berkshire, England.]

1. HENRICUS [HENRY] NEWBERY
Gender: Male Christening: 25 AUG 1646 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS shown as Humfredi and Sarae Newbery.

2. BENJAMEN [BENJAMIN] NEWBERY
Gender: Male Christening: 03 NOV 1652 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS not indicated.

3. SARAH NEWBERY
Gender: Female Christening: 01 SEP 1654 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS not indicated.

4. GUALTHERUS [WALTER] NEWBERY
Gender: Male Christening: 04 APR 1648 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS shown as Humfredi and Sarae Newbery.

5. NATHANAEL [NATHANIEL] NEWBERY
Gender: Male Christening: 27 NOV 1649 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS shown as Humfredi and Sarae Newbery.

6. FRANCIS NEWBERY
Gender: Male Christening: 17 APR 1651 West Ilsley, Berkshire, England
PARENTS not indicated.

----------------------

A compilation of possible origins for the above given names:

HUMPHREY (Humphry / Humfredi / Humfredus): Means "peaceful warrior" from the Germanic elements hun "warrior" and frid "peace". The Normans introduced this name to Britain.

HENRY (Henrici / Hernicus): From the Germanic name Heimerich which meant "home ruler", composed of the elements heim "home" and ric "power, ruler". This name was introduced into Britain by the Normans. It was borne by eight kings of England including the infamous Henry VIII, as well as six kings of France and seven kings of Germany.

WALTER (Gaultherus / Gauthier / Gaulthems): From a Germanic name meaning "ruler of the army", composed of the elements wald "rule" and heri "army".

NATHANAEL (Nathaniel): From the Hebrew name Nethane'el which meant "God has given".

BENJAMIN (Benjamen):From the Hebrew name Binyamin which means "son of the south" or "son of the right hand". Benjamin in the Old Testament was the twelfth and youngest son of Jacob and the founder of one of the southern tribes of the Hebrews.

FRANCIS: From the Late Latin name Franciscus which meant "Frenchman". Saint Francis of Assisi, the founder of the Franciscan order of friars.

SARAI (Sarah / Sarae): Means "lady" or "princess" in Hebrew. This was the name of the wife of Abraham in the Old Testament. She became the mother of Isaac at the age of 90. Her name was originally Sarai, but God changed it (see Genesis 17:15).
Title: Re: NEWBERRY/ANSELL 1733 - DANIEL NEWBERRY b.1815
Post by: suemoo2 on Thursday 23 April 09 09:58 BST (UK): Hi,
I am related to Daniel Newberry, 6th and last child of Richard Newberry b1772 and Elizabeth Maddle b1778.
Daniel was born 1815 and Christened 15 October 1815. He was convicted of stealing in Hertford Q.S. on 27 June 1836 and transported to Australia on the "Asia V (3)" (ie: the 5th transport by the name of "Asia" on her 3rd voyage as a convict transport). Sailed from Torbay, Devon UK on 4 August 1837. Daniel was transported for '14 years'.
She was ship-rigged, 523 tons, Class AE1, built in Calcutta in 1814 of Teak. The Master
was Ben Freeman. Surgeon was Jn. Gannon.
Daniel was listed as 21 years on entry in the Indent of the 'Asia'. 280 male convicts were
embarked in Torbay, UK, 3 died on the voyage, and 277 arrived in Sydney on 2 December
1837, after 120 days.
Daniel died 26 October 1873 aged 57 years at Charleyong NSW - Death registered NSW
Births Deaths & Marriages Registration No: 3523/1873 Charleyong, Braidwood District - surname shown as 'Newbury'.

Daniel married Margaret Jenkinson on 16 July 1844 (shown on church marriage register as "Jenkins") at Christ Church St. Lawrence, Sydney, County of Cumberland. Marriage
Registration No: V1844 4146 29/1844 MF District - 'MF' = Early Church Record Code for Church of England, Sydney, St. Lawrence's.
Groom's name shown as Daniel Newbury, Bride's name shown as 'Margaret Jenkins'.
Margaret was born 1807 - On the National Archives of Ireland website, Transportation of Convicts to Australia, name search results = 1 Only entry for Margaret Jenkinson, Trial date shown as June 1837 and her age being 26 = DOB 1811, BUT on ships indent for "Sir Charles Forbes" her age is shown as 30 = DOB 1807.
Margaret Jenkinson was transported to Australia on the ship "Sir Charles Forbes (4)" (ie: on her 4th voyage as a convict ship) which sailed from Dublin, Ireland on 8 August 1837 and arrived in Sydney on 25 December 1837. At sea for 136 days. 150 women
boarded and 147 arrived in Sydney. Master was Jas. Leslie and Surgeon was Wm. Clifford. Was listed as 'married' on transport indent. Maiden name and birthplace 'unknown'.
She was convicted of Larceny (stealing potatoes), property of "Ballymoat" Glenealy, County Wicklow, Ireland. Place of Trial: Co. Wicklow Sentence: Transportation 7 Years.
She was assigned to place in Elizabeth Street, Sydney. Broke her leg and admitted to Hyde Park Asylum. Institution admitted - Newington Asylum on 19 January 1885. Discharged (died) 13 April 1894 - Pauper at Newington Asylum, Sydney. Margaret
was Buried 14 April 1894 in Roman Catholic Cemetery, Rookwood NSW - Death registered NSW Births Deaths & Marriages Registration No: 5820/1894 - Granville District - Parents shown as 'Unknown'.

NB: 20 April 2009 - I contacted Rookwood Cemetery Catholic Office for details on where
Margaret Newberry (nee Jenkinson) was buried - where could I find her grave if I were to go to the cemetery. They requested a copy of her death certificate, which I sent and this is their reply:
"I have searched all the old record books (3 record books for each burial) and there is no
interment for Margaret Newberry in the Catholic Cemetery at Rookwood. I contacted the
other denominations, that is Anglican and Independent and they have advised that they had no interment.
Unfortunately, in the early years, the funeral directors filled out the papers prior to the
service and the cemetery would be changed but not the paperwork. I phoned Waverley
Cemetery as it happened quite a lot between Waverley and Rookwood but they advised
no interment for Margaret.
I really cannot help other than what I have already done. You may like to try other
cemeteries. Or maybe they had a burial ground in Newington Asylum."

2009: NB: Charleyong Cemetery - As the old Charleyong cemetery is on land owned by
the Sydney Catchment Authority (SCA) it is not open to the public and would be flooded if
the Welcome reef dam is ever built. Only 1 headstone remains today.

Braidwood Times Newspaper, Wednesday 21 January 2009 Edition: Front Page.
At the Historic Braidwood Cemetery a Memorial Wall recording burials of early
residents at the Charleyong Cemetery between 1864 and 1904 was unveiled.
Daniel Newberry is one of those pioneers buried in Charleyong but on the wall
his name has been incorrectly recorded as 'David' Newberry and his place of
death is recorded as England.
These details are of course totally incorrect - his one and only chance of having
his name recorded in stone and it has been blown.

see next posting re: Daniel's cousin - Thomas Omant.
Title: Re: NEWBERRY/ANSELL 1733 - Further to DANIEL NEWBERRY - his cousin THOMAS OMANT
Post by: suemoo2 on Thursday 23 April 09 09:59 BST (UK): NOTE: Daniel's partner in crime was his cousin, Thomas Omant born 1818.
Thomas was Christened on 18 January 1818 in Ickleford, Hertfordshire UK.
Thomas was transported "For Life" to Van Diemans Land (Tasmania) on the ship
"Blenheim" (1). Departed London/Woolwich 15 March 1837 and arrived in
Hobart 16 July 1837. 204 Convicts landed.
Thomas was a son of John Oment/Omant and Mary Newberry married on
18 May 1806 in Ickleford, Hertfordshire UK. Mary Newberry was 1st of 12 children born to Thomas Newberry b1762 and Ann Thompson b1763.

Thomas married Jane Eyles in Oatlands Tasmania, Australia in 1851. On the Archives
Office of Tasmania website - www.tas.gov.au - 'Convict Application to Marry 1829-1857' -
shows an entry for:
Jane Eyles (convict) and Thomas Omit (Omant) (free) 6 May 1851.

Jane Eleanor Eyles was a convict. She was transported to Van Diemans Land
(Tasmania) on the ship "Baretto Junior 1" (ie: the 1st transport by the name of Baretto
Junior as a convict transport). Departed Downs 13 April 1850 and arrived in Hobart
25 July 1850 after 103 days. 190 female convicts embarked, 4 died on voyage, and
186 landed. The Master was J. Hugging. Surgeon was R. Whitmore Clarke.
Jane was an inmate at "Cascades Female Factory" - on New Year's Day 1851 the
Cascades held 730 women and 130 infants.
Jane was born in Melksham, Wiltshire UK 1827/8 (she was listed as age 23 when she
arrived) and died in 1901 and was buried 19 March 1901 (Aged 73 years), her last address was 'New Town Charitable Institution'. Buried as a Pauper in Cornelian Bay Cemetery, Tasmania.
Thomas died in 1899 and was buried 25 July 1899 (Aged 84 years?) - his last address
was 'New Town Charitable Institution'. Buried as a Pauper in Cornelian Bay Cemetery,
Tasmania

My Newberry family information goes back to Joseph Newberry born before 1713 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire UK and was Chistened on 3 December 1766 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire UK. Joseph married by Banns, Arabella Ansel on 24 October 1733 in Ickleford, Hertfordshire UK. Joseph died in 1766 and was buried 3 December 1766 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire.
Arabella was born 16 January 1715 in Ickleford and died 26 March 1768 and was buried
27 March 1768 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire.
Arabella was the daughter of Thomas Ansel (born before 1694 and died April 1728, buried 2 May 1728 in Ickleford) and Elizabeth Richardson (born before 1694 in Arlesey). Thomas and Elizabeth were married 3 September 1714 Holwell, Hertfordshire. Thomas andElizabeth had two other children (Arabella's siblings) - Henry born 1717 and Thomas
born 1722.

Joseph & Arabella had 9 children.

Hope this information is of some help to those looking for Newberry family members.
Daniel Newberry was my great great grandfather.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Thursday 23 April 09 17:31 BST (UK): Just a couple of points from Arlesey parish register transcript:

"Joseph Newberry born before 1713 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire Bedfordshire, not Hertfordshire. But what evidence is there that he was from Arlesey? The baptism of Thomas in 1734 is the first Newberry entry in Arlesey parish register. Interestingly in a number of the early entries the name was described as Newberry alias Monk. Has any research been done on this alternative name? Again there are no earlier Monk entries in Arlesey UK and was Chistened on 3 December 1766 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire UK There's no baptism in the parish register and as it supposedly took place on the day he was buried I question it. I've heard of death bed baptisms, but not after death. Joseph married by Banns, Arabella Ansel on 24 October 1733 in Ickleford, Hertfordshire UK. Joseph died in 1766 and was buried 3 December 1766 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire.
Arabella was born 16 January 1715 in Ickleford and died 26 March 1768 No date of death is given in the parish register, just the burial date.and was buried 27 March 1768 in Arlesey, Hertfordshire. "

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: alunno-a on Thursday 23 April 09 17:42 BST (UK): oh BLIMEY!!! Is the whole world descended from the Newbury/Monk/Ansells?? I am soooo confused.
David, would you please write a book on this subject, I would happily pay for publication........
Sally.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Thursday 23 April 09 17:51 BST (UK): I'm suddenly getting all kinds of email about James Newberry. It must be my lucky day! Does anyone in these replies have info on the Newberry's of Dorset and Devon around Colyton, Axminister, Yarcombe? Looking for 17th century immigrants to the New World.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Laurina on Thursday 23 April 09 20:10 BST (UK): I've not been able to link my early Newberry's with any families outside Herts and Beds.

I've heard of the Monk link before but unfortunately haven't got anywhere with it.

Laurina
Title: Re: NEWBERRY/ANSELL 1733 - DANIEL NEWBERRY b.1815
Post by: Linda63 on Sunday 15 November 09 17:03 GMT (UK): Quote from: suemoo2 on Thursday 23 April 09 09:58 BST (UK)
Hi,
I am related to Daniel Newberry, 6th and last child of Richard Newberry b1772 and Elizabeth Maddle b1778.

My 3x Gr Grandmother was Daniel's older sister Sophia.

I haven't been researching this line of my family tree for very long, and until a few weeks ago all I knew of Sophia was her first name. So I am amazed to find all this new information

Although I'm a bit worried now someone has mentioned the name of Monk. I haven't come across this connection before.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 15 November 09 17:54 GMT (UK): Hi Linda

Welcome to Rootschat

Every time I think this thread is dead it gets resurrected!

I think it's fairly straightforward to get Sophia back to Joseph Newberry alias Monk and Arabella Ansel. But there everyone gets stuck. I still think the alias Monk is worthy of further research, but although I have a Daniel in my database it's only because he was the first husband of Matilda Perkins whose second husband was a Furr of Hitchin, with whom I have no connection! He is probably connected to "my" Furrs of Southill but I can't prove the link. Some day when I've completely run out of lines to follow, I may try to do some detailed research into the Monk angle. But that day hasn't arrived yet. But I don't think this is the same Daniel as yours, as he was baptised in 1817 the son of Thomas and Mary, and was buried in Ickleford in 1849.

Shout if you need any help

Did Sophia marry William Hunt of Hitchin at Ickleford?

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Sunday 15 November 09 19:12 GMT (UK): Hi Newberry mavens:

Here I am, back talking about the Newberry folks in the U.S.

I have found one link back in the UK that might be of interest to all of you. Thomas Newberry, the first person of the surname NEWBERRY, arrived in New England at Dorchester, MA in 1634 and died in 1635, just as he was elected to high office in the Massachusetts Bay Company. He had two surviving sons, one was Benjamin and the other was Joseph. Benjamin stayed in New England at Windsor, Ct., and made a name for himself; while his brother Joseph went back to Marshwood Vale, Dorset (circa 1647), and looked after the family assets on a 99 year lease bequeathed to them by their grandfather Christopher Dabinott. There was some defugalty over the land with his cousins - one named Morgan Haine and his cohorts. Joseph's uncle Robert bought the land to end the dispute. I am unsure of where Joseph went after that. Could he or his sons have gone into Beds or Herts? Just a thought for everyone to consider.

One other interesting thing to consider, Joseph and Benjamin had a brother named John, who committed a crime in New England and was sentenced to hang about 1647. Is it just a coincidence that Joseph returned to England around that time? Could he have taken his brother John with him back to England to spare him the hangman's noose? I have scoured the record looking for an entry that John was actually hanged and found nothing. I did however find he escaped prison and his accomplice was caught. Unfortunately, I have not found corroborating evidence to prove that he was hung, or that he went back to England.

On another note, I am the administrator for the Newberry Family DNA Project here in the U.S. Below is a description of the project if anyone is interested in joining.

In January 2009 we launched the Newberry DNA surname project. So far, there have been several lines of the Newberry family mapped. Only two have turned up close ties. We are still lacking a test subject who is definitively related to colonial Thomas Newberry of Dorchester, MA, who arrived in New England in 1634. We are building good framework that will hopefully become useful to people who are searching out their family lines. We hope to also test gentlemen from contemporary Newberry families who currently reside in the UK. The two haplogroups that have been identified thus far are R1b and I1. The company we are working with is DNA Consultants of Phoenix, Arizona - see DNAconsultants.com. If anyone is interested in testing there is a group discount on any test that you might be interested in taking, as long as it pertains to the Newberry family. You may contact me at goldsage@aol.com. Our fondest wish is to find a person who is descended from the New England family of Thomas Newberry who left from Dorset Co. England (Marshwood Vale) in April 1634* arrived in Dorchester, MA in the same year and died there in 1635. Test participants for the YDNA test, MUST BE male descended from father to son and bear the surname NEWBERRY. If there are male members of the Newberry family, who have had their DNA tested elsewhere and would like to add their line to our study, please contact me. Sue Simonich goldsage@aol.com

8) Sue

*William Whiteway's Diary.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Linda63 on Sunday 15 November 09 19:46 GMT (UK): Hello bedfordshire boy.

Thanks for the welcome. ;D

Sophia did indeed marry William Hunt. They were married on 8 February 1834 in Ickleford. Their daughter Sarah Hunt is my Gr Gr Grandmother.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 15 November 09 20:04 GMT (UK): The earliest Newberry parish register entry in Beds was in Woburn in 1576 when William Newberry married Joan Allin. They were buried in 1589 and 1586 respectively. No children were baptised. The next Newberry wasn't for almost another hundred years in Husborne Crawley, close to Woburn, when Thomas baptised John. Whilst I can't see a marriage for Thomas, Dorset is 150 miles away so wouldn't be the first place I'd look.

In Herts there are Americans who believe that a Thomas Newberry born c1635 at Berkhamstead married c1672 in Hartford Conn., whereas others think the marriage was in Berkhamstead. Apart from a couple of early entries in Watford, the next entry is "our" Joseph in 1733 in Ickleford. So much the same as Beds, although I don't believe that Herts coverage on the IGI is as complete as Beds

So sticking my scrawny little neck out, it doesn't look to me as though there's a link between Dorset and Beds/Herts. I think it more likely that the early Beds names could have come from Bucks, given the proximity of Woburn and Husborne Crawley to the county boundary with Bucks, where there were also Newberrys

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Tuesday 17 November 09 15:52 GMT (UK): There seem to be a lot of mysterious Newberry people. During the early periods of Puritanism, it seems that members took their children outside of their parish to be baptized. Such was supposedly the case with the first Newberry in America, Thomas Newberry. The IGI says that his children were baptized in Worcester, of all places, yet, he was from Dorset (Marshwood Vale). The baptisms have been searched in Dorset, and a probable cousin of his - Walter Newburgh - was the Rector of Symondsbury, not far from his home. The distant baptisms idea was in an book I read recently.

Thomas departed for America in 1634 from Dorchester, as per William Whiteway's Diary - now in the British Museum. I was interested in the marriage you mentioned above of William Newberry and Joan Allin, because the New England colonist, Thomas Newberry's daughter married into the Allyn family in America.

Thanks one and all for the interesting topics of conversation. *~Sue~*
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: alunno-a on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:35 GMT (UK): Forgive me Sue,

but surely if you "take" a child to be baptised somewhere, that somewhere IS your parish. Unless the Clerk notes that you are from a differant Parish and that the child was born in a differant Parish then the Parish you are in is "yours". Parish records are/were legal documents that establish a a right of charge on that parish- and no incumbent would have registered a "stray" without noting the fact. Maybe the book was referring to non conformist baptism records, rather than Parish Records, which are not the same thing!!
sorry to be pedantic!
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Tuesday 17 November 09 18:05 GMT (UK): Surely, you were not trying to be pedantic at all, so you are forgiven. ;D

I will find the reference that states this fact, and get back to you all. I was as surprised and disturbed by this as you apparently were. It's not as if we need this new complication added to research - right?

Puritanism of the time seemed to have some odd practices. This information came out of a book that I borrowed from the library about three months ago, but I have the reference written down.

Were there non-conformist Baptists in the 1630's in England?

Sue
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Tuesday 17 November 09 18:52 GMT (UK): The IGI is about the best research aid going, but only when you look at entries extracted from parish registers or bishops' transcripts. It's been debased by members adding the type of entry to which you refer.

I can't see any Newberry baptisms in Worcester on the IGI. I can see a load of births, all member submissions which are at best unreliable. Some entries have these children of Thomas Newberry and Jane Dabitoff as all being born in Worcester, other entries show them as being born in Yarcombe Devon, others again as being born in Marshwood Dorset, and others as some of them born in Conn. In other words, and excuse me for being cynical, no-one has a clue where they were from. When there are three separate theories coming out of America as to where they were from in England then I'm pretty sure there's no conclusive evidence, and folks are clutching at straws.

Yarcombe parish register has been extracted onto the IGI - plenty of Newberrys but no children of Thomas baptised at the right time

There is no parish of Marshwood or Marshwood Vale in Dorset, although it seems to be a few miles from Bridport, as was Symondsbury, whose parish register isn't on the IGI. Has this parish register been checked for any Newberry baptisms? But IF the family was from Marshwood Vale (does William Whiteway's Diary give Thomas' home parish?) presumably there were other nearby parishes the children could have been baptised at.

There's more than one parish in Worcester so I've no idea which one the children were allegedly baptised at, although again, they don't appear on the IGI as extracted entries. Some entries show birth dates in Worcester going up to 1642, which, if they're correct, says to me that this can't be the Thomas who emigrated in 1634. And once one entry is demonstrably wrong then the rest tumble down like a house of cards. Why did you place any credence on these Worcester entries which show five children born in Worcester after Thomas had emigrated? I don't buy the story that children were born in Dorset and they then traipsed 130 miles each way to Worcester to get baptised.

Siblings of my 16xg grandfather went to New England on the Mayflower. They and their children were all baptised in the established church, notwithstanding their puritanism.

David

All Baptists were non-conformist! I think they were anabaptists at that time. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 18 November 09 01:14 GMT (UK): Hi David et al.

I agree that the IGI has been polluted and therefore, I have great reservations about using it at all. It has become unreliable, and yes, some are definitely clutching at straws. However, I am not one of them. The PR's for this family don’t seem to have survived in that area of Dorset. I wondered at the veracity of the Worcester entries, which is why I mentioned it, as it has turned up elsewhere in other authors' writings.

Actually, there IS evidence provided by William Whiteway’s Diary that a Mr. Newberry of Marshwood Vale was on the ship headed to New England in April of 1634. Savage thinks that he was also there in 1630, but no ship logs prove it. There are wills that prove that the Dabinott family had a 99 year lease on property there, and that lease was willed to the grandsons of Christopher Dabinott (aka Thomas Newberry’s sons, Benjamin, Joseph and John). Actually in ancient times, the area belonged at one time to the Newburghs.

Joseph Newberry went back home from New England in 1647 and took up the running of the farm at Marshwood. There was a big to do and a suit by Morgan Haine, who also had been in New England, regarding the inheritance of that lease. It seems his wife Rawlin was involved in the contestation of Christopher Dabinott’s will. Robert Newberry (uncle of Joseph) stepped in and settled it. So there is plenty to show that the family was there, but the extant records do not give us the full picture.

Surrounding parishes have been searched, but it appears the ones that are needed to prove these children are no longer extant. They DEFINITELY were not born in New England, as their father died in 1635, just one year after they landed in Dorchester, MA. Their mother remarried to Rev. Warham.

I know this notion of baptism outside of one’s home parish flies in the face of all research paradigms; and, at this point, I am unable to offer direct quotations, but I believe the information I cited came from -

Sharpe, Pamela, Population and Society in an East Devon Parish, Reproducing Colyton, 1540-1840. University of Exeter Press 2002.

I have the information in my research notes, but would probably have to request the book again from inter-library loan to show you the passage and page numbers.

Sorry to have taken the thread off topic. Carry on. . . 8) ;D
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Wednesday 18 November 09 05:29 GMT (UK): Hi Sue

As I'm sure you're aware, there are numerous online trees for Thomas Newberry, being one of the earlier emigrants to America. The quality of research varies enormously. One of those which seem well researched shows two of his children being baptised at Whitchurch Canonicorum in Marshwood Vale - Mary on 22 Oct 1626 (coincidentally this is the same date as given on the IGI for the birth in Worcester!) and John on 19 Feb 1628/9. The parish register for Whitchurch Canonicorum is held at Dorset History Centre - it doesn't appear to have been filmed by the LDS for this period nor is a transcription for baptisms available prior to 1730. This is where I would start. If these can be confirmed it tends blow Worcester out of the water.

Quote from: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 18 November 09 01:14 GMT (UK)

I know this notion of baptism outside of one’s home parish flies in the face of all research paradigms;

It wasn't unusual. Children could be baptised wherever their parents wanted. So long as the child wasn't illegitimate the parish where it was born or baptised didn't affect it's parish of settlement - that was automatically the father's parish of legal settlement. It's just that I don't believe that they travelled 130 miles for each child to be baptised. But in any case the IGI shows them as being births at Worcester, not baptisms. And as the last five are wrong, (as Thomas had already died in America before four of his children were allegedly born in Worcester) I see no reason why the other entries should be any more accurate, particularly if you can verify the Whitchurch baptisms.

Odd that according to some sources he married two Jane Dabinotts yet neither marriage has been found.

David

Looking at Ancestral Roots 7 I see that Thomas Newberry was a descendant of my 20xg grandfather, Eudo la Zouche. So we must be very distant cousins!
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 18 November 09 19:19 GMT (UK): Hi David:

The only other idea I have on this is that some of the children could have been baptized all at the same time, as we have found baptisms of adults in our work. But as you have said, the IGI looks fishy all the way down the line on this one. One would think that in this time frame children would be baptized directly after birth, but later or adult baptisms don't seem to be outside the realm of possiblity either.

I wonder why Whitchurch was not filmed? A person that I have worked with in England, apparently didn't find the Whitchurch registers in the Dorset History Center. . . Hmmm. . .

There is a book about the Newberry family written by Joseph Gardner Bartlett, "The Newberry Genealogy," which seems to be the Bible by which most people have done their research and posted online. Most of what is online is not totally correct, especially if they are using Bartlett. There is a little known fact that Bartlett was contacted by the College of Arms in 1925 and his work was called into question, especially on the Thomas Newberry line. They went back and forth debating specific points, and finally Bartlett came to the conclusion that he needed to ammend his earlier findings. One specific thing that he says at the end of his work regarding the Dorset family was that there were people in Dalwood and Stockland who were not related. As it turns out, he began trying to ferret through old wills to find the right connections. Unfortunately, he did not finish before he died. It is here, where I have picked up his work and continue to search for connections that seem to be severed from the family line. The College has a line which they claim to be correct, but we are still analyzing.

I am working with another researcher in England and we are translating as many Newburgh/Newberry wills/documents as we can lay our hands on. Hopefully one day with all the PRs and other extant information in hand, we will be able to put this line to rights. Interpreting the information correctly is always chancy which is why we end up with problems such as are seen in the IGI. Therefore, collateral connections are also being examined. It is arduous to say the least.

Your comment about the Dabinott women is an old conundrum. Supposedly, Thomas was first married to Joan Dabinott and then his second wife was either a sister or a cousin. No one seems to know for sure. Even that seems to not be on solid ground, because the marriage records are missing. At least five of the children were produced by his first wife.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Wednesday 18 November 09 20:02 GMT (UK): See http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=18679

Quite clearly states that Whitchurch Canonicorum baptisms 1558 onwards are held at Dorset History Centre. I would use their research service - http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=386630

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 18 November 09 20:45 GMT (UK): Great information David. I haven't seen this site. Thank you! :D I have spent a lot of time ordering films, so some of the information online is new.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Linda63 on Thursday 19 November 09 00:38 GMT (UK): Well, I'm lost for words! I'm quite a newbie really, and thought I was doing very well with my family tree, getting as far back as 1700s.

So, as you can imagine I'm finding all this information on the Newberry's quite overwhealming.

I'm probably going to show my ignorance now, but I have to ask... are these Newberry's who went off to America in the 1600s and the la Zouche's connected with my Newberry's? Or is that a different line?
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Thursday 19 November 09 05:49 GMT (UK): There's nothing that I've seen to date that links the Beds/Herts Newberrys with the Dorset family, other than the name's the same. But the earliest Newberrys on the IGI seem to have been from Devon/Dorset and Stepney London so it's possible that they spread out from the south-west.

The problem is Joseph Newberry alias Monk whose origin is unknown, and until his baptism is found it's pure speculation that he might be connected to the early minor gentry Newberrys, one of whom emigrated with his family to America

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Linda63 on Thursday 19 November 09 10:38 GMT (UK): Thanks for clearing that up for me David. ;D
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Peggy on Sunday 22 November 09 18:19 GMT (UK): Newberrys in America, there is a collection of BMDs called the Barbour Collection in Connecticut at www.dunhamwilcox.net/barbour/
If you scroll down to" Hartford n-o" you can view what is there for Newberrys in Hartford county from 1668 to 1852.

Peggy
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Sunday 10 October 10 07:12 BST (UK): Hello Newberry researchers:

I have recently begun a new web site for Newberry researching and DNA. If anyone is interesting in joining, please notify me at (*).

We are posting lines from as many groups as we can.

Sue

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Friday 15 October 10 22:40 BST (UK): Opps, I have a feeling I shouldn't have put my email up. Is that correct? I got an email from "Bedfordshire boy" with whom I have had cordial discussions quite often. David, I sent you an invitation to the World Wide Newberry site. Did you receive it? ??? To the moderator, please accept my apologies on the fopah.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Saturday 16 October 10 06:58 BST (UK): Hi Sue

Yes I received the invitation and will be doing something about it this weekend!

Many thanks

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Saturday 16 October 10 08:10 BST (UK): Great David! Thanks for letting me know. I hope you will contribute whatever you can. Sue ;D
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Wednesday 20 October 10 05:47 BST (UK): On re-reading this thread I find I disagree with post #27!

A child didn't necessarily become a potential charge on a parish simply because he/she was baptised in that parish. A legitimate child, and the wife, automatically took the father's/husband's parish of legal settlement irrespective of where the child was born or baptised. It was only an illegitimate child whose parish of settlement was its parish of birth (hence the desire of parish overseers to remove pregnant single women who weren't local back to their own parish, so that the child didn't become a liability for them)

I recently came across a case of a deserted wife and her two children, all born in Derby, being removed from Derby to Shillington, Beds, as that was the husband's parish of settlement. The children ended up in Ampthill Union workhouse and the mother disappeared off to America, where the children joined her nine years later!

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 20 October 10 17:26 BST (UK): Hi David: In doing reading in the medieval period, I have also found that "wardship" of a child was transfered to an 'appropriate' individual even when his mother was living and especially when it came to children of the upper classes. Either the king or the lords of the demesne seemed to have charge over children and their welfare, especially when it came to boys of landed status who lost their fathers before they reached their majority. They often became part of a parish which was not their own. I am not sure how long this wardship convention lasted in the historical time line, but it might also be something to consider when it comes to this topic of conversation.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Thursday 21 October 10 21:35 BST (UK): Following on from posts #s 4 & 5 in December 2005 (I don’t like to rush it when considering problems!), and with the benefit of more stuff being online today, and having done more research recently on these Newberry families in north Herts:

-   the position is rather more complex than John outlined, which theory Laurina seemed to reject as being “simply neighbours”. In the first house was James Newberry, 21 b Holwell, wife Martha and son George; in the next house was Sarah Newberry, 35, her sister Mary 25 and Sarah’s three illegitimate children plus the probable father, William Tomlin; and the next house included Sarah’s sister Jane Newberry 19 b Holwell and her grandmother Charlotte Oakley. I don't think it's coincidence that these three houses are all occupied by Newberrys
-   both James and Jane were baptised on 24 Dec 1831 at Ickleford. There’s no question but that Jane in 1851, born Holwell, is the Jane baptised at Ickleford. The big question must be is James in 1851, born Holwell, the same James who was baptised in Ickleford. I think he was
-   the big problem of course is James’ 1849 marriage certificate where his father is named as Joseph
-   James, son of Thomas & Mary, disappears off the face of the earth after the 1841 census when he was living in Holwell. No burial, no marriage, no subsequent census appearance.
-   James, son of Joseph, born Holwell c1829/30 doesn’t appear on the scene until his 1849 marriage
-   In 1841 widow Mary and family including James 11 were living at Cadwell, a hamlet of Holwell, which is actually closer to Ickleford than it is to Holwell itself, (which is perhaps why many of their children were baptised at Ickleford rather than Holwell), with all the family bar Mary the mother and Sarah said to have been born in Beds (in which county Holwell was situated until 1897). Sarah was baptised at Hitchen as was her mother, hence they are shown as "Not born in county". Thus all the children except Sarah seem to have been born at Cadwell/Holwell, irrespective of where they were baptised
-   The only Joseph I can see who could possibly have been the father was married to Mary Arnold Crook in 1819, who had children up to 1830, but no James. They’re in Ickleford in 1841, but no James. I discount this family.

To me everything points to there being an error on the marriage certificate; Joseph instead of Thomas as the father. Of course it can’t be proved, but I think all the circumstantial evidence points to there being just one James Newberry being born at that time in Holwell, son of Thomas and Mary

Laurina, have you found anything more in the last five years? Who were the witnesses at the marriage, and did James and Martha sign their names, or just make a mark? If they just made a mark would they even have recognised that the father’s name was incorrect?

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Laurina on Sunday 31 October 10 14:54 GMT (UK): Sorry David, I came to the same conclusion as you some time ago. I do not have the marriage certificate but viewed the record when I visited HALS shortly after I started researching the family. Unfortunately in those days I was foolish enough not to note down the details of witnesses and whether or not James signed his certificate or left his mark. I'm nolonger able to get to Hertford to check it out.

Maybe some kind person may be able to check up on the details if they visit the record office? ;D

Laurina
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Sunday 28 November 10 02:55 GMT (UK): It's been some time since I visited this subject, but I am finding myself circling back on these Berkshire Newberry people. Does anyone have any new information on them? Is my friend Bedfordshire Boy still out there?

Many thanks,

Sue
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 28 November 10 06:24 GMT (UK): Hi Sue

I've not looked at the Berkshire family at all I'm afraid - I've been a bit bogged down recently so haven't been as active as usual. Got visitors again, coming to France to get some different Christmas presents

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Sunday 28 November 10 06:55 GMT (UK): Hi David:

Maybe after the first of the year we can collaborate and bring together a few more of the counties/parishes on this family if you have some time.

Sue
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 28 November 10 08:09 GMT (UK): Good idea, Sue. I've only looked at the Beds/Herts branch, plus a fairly superficial look at the Dorset lot. Once the silly season is over, my visitors have left, and I've returned from Christmas in England, I shall need something to get my teeth into (other than left over turkey)

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Sunday 28 November 10 18:12 GMT (UK): Looking forward to it David! Enjoy your holiday!
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: marmar on Friday 12 August 11 09:03 BST (UK): Hello Anne
I am researching the Monnery family and I see you are related to William George Monnery born Southampton. His father (John Monnery born Henfield Sussex) was a brother of my husband's direct ancestor and I would be very interested to learn more about William George's family. Any help would be very much appreciated
Marmar
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Friday 12 August 11 14:44 BST (UK): Actually, I think that your question is misplaced and belongs in a new thread somewhere. Perhaps the admin. can help you.

Newberrychaser

Quote from: marmar on Friday 12 August 11 09:03 BST (UK)
Hello Anne
I am researching the Monnery family and I see you are related to William George Monnery born Southampton. His father (John Monnery born Henfield Sussex) was a brother of my husband's direct ancestor and I would be very interested to learn more about William George's family. Any help would be very much appreciated
Marmar
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Tuesday 03 April 12 01:07 BST (UK): Hello Rootschatters:

Oh, here we are back again with the Newberry's of England and America. I have a new question to posit to those of you who are historical anglophiles. Thomas Newberry one of the first to show up in America circa 1633/34 was married to two Dabinott women. Actually in doing some more medieval work, I ran into the d' Abetot surname and wondered if this was not a permutation of the Dabinott name. In doing a bit of research, it seems that the Despenser's were actually d'Abetot's but took the name Despenser. Here is what wikipedia has to say about it:

"The origin of the surname Spencer (also Spence, Spender, Spens, and Spenser) can be traced directly to Robert d'Abbetot[2][3][4] who is listed as Robert le Dispenser, a tenant-in-chief of several counties, in the Domesday Book of 1086. Robert was possibly one of the Norman knights who fought alongside (or accompanied) William the Conqueror in the defeat of Harold II, King of England at the Battle of Hastings in 1066. There is little doubt that both Robert and his brother Urse came to England at about the time of the Battle of Hastings. They were both beneficiaries of William over the years, and were given titles and substantial land and property—suggesting repayment for some earlier deeds. It is likely that Robert's first acknowledgment was his official appointment as Royal "Dispencier" sometimes expressed more grandly as "Royal Steward", "King's Steward" or "Lord Steward". As dispenser of provisions to the King and his household Robert was known and recorded as Robert le Despencer or, in its Latinised form, Robertus Dispensator.[5] There is also the possibility that Robert held this official position before arriving in England.[6]"

So my question is, does anyone know if the Dabinott name may have been handed down through Urse, and the origin of the name is actually Abetot? Dear Moderator, if you think it is better to move this to it's own space, I would appreciate your wisdom on the subject.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: alunno-a on Tuesday 03 April 12 13:23 BST (UK): Spencer/Spenser etc is an occupation surname like smith- a spenser was a servant like a steward.
I don't think Spensers are ALL descended from one frenchman!

Is Abbetot not an old french placename? d'Abbetot meaning a land owner of Abbetot, of "from" Abbetot? Sounds too far off Dabinott to me.- differant vocal altogether. ( double "T"- extra "N"- soft b/v etc??)- there's probably a better place for this question- as you say..good luck.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: MilDot on Wednesday 04 April 12 23:33 BST (UK): Re the Dabinett name and origins. Possible origins of the Dabinett name:

DABIN: (French) Diminutive of DABB (a diminutive of Robert), based on the first name of the ancestor's father.
----------------------------------------
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sanderstocaesar&id=I08918 Contact Bob Sanders, Title: SandersTo Caesar

This relates the marriage of Thomas Newberry, b 10 Nov 1594 in Yarcombe, Devonshire, England to Jane Dabinott, dau. of Christopher, who was born abt 1600 in Yarcombe and died in 1655 ‘in the colonies”.

Birth and ordinances: IGI film 7834730, sheet 91; call# 1126453
In son John's records: Christening and ordinances: IGI film 7315909, Sheet 71; call # 822780
In sons John's records: Christening and ordinances: IGI film 8507303, sheet 33; call # 1395969
In daughter Mary's record: Christening and ordinances: IGI film 8507303, sheet 32; call # 1395969
In son Joseph's records: Birth and ordinances: IGI film 7315909, sheet 72; call # 822780
Dau. Sarah's record: Birth and ordinances: IGI film 7315909, sheet 72; call # 822780
Son Benj. record: Birth and ordinances: IGI film 7315909, sheet 71; call # 822780
Dau. Mary's record: Birth and ordinances: IGI film 7315909, sheet 71; call # 822780
***********************
Entries: 26696 Updated: 2007-02-02 Contact: Robert M. Sanders
----------------------------------------
ID: I08918
Name: Jane Dabinott , W253.40, Img 1 2 3 4 5
Sex: F
Birth: ABT 1600 in Yarcombe, co., Devon, England
Birth: ABT 1600
Death: 23 APR 1655 in in the colonies
Event: AKA (Facts Page) Dabinett
Reference Number: 8921
Note: Also married Joan Dabinott (probably a cousin & 2nd marriage to Newberry)

Father: Christopher Dabinett , W253.40 b: BET 3 FEB 1562 AND 1563 in Yarcombe, co., Devon, England
Mother: NN wife of Dabinett Jane b: ABT 1580 in England

Marriage 1 Thomas Newberry , W253.40, Img b: 10 NOV 1594 in Yarcombe, co., Devon, England
Children
Sarah Newberry , Img b: 1614 in Devonshire, England
Mary Newberry , IMG21 b: 22 OCT 1626 in Devonshire, England

Sources: Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, (W) - Weis, Author: Frederick Lewis Weis, GPC 7th ed., Publication: "W" + number refers to the Line in the associated book, Note: 100%, Repository:
Media: Book, Title: Immigrant Ancestors (IMG)-Virkus, Author: Frederick Virkus, GPC 1942, Note: Img-V indicates that the source is from the seven volumes. Img and a number (Eq, Img6), indicates that it comes from the extraction of Vol VI published separately as an Index. Repository: Note: "IMG" + number denotes book and page number, Page: pg 50 Index, Title: See Husbands sources, Author: same as husband, Title: A Genealogical Dict' of the First Settlers of New Eng- Savage, Author: James Savage, Publication: Genealogical Pub. Co. Note: "A Genealogical Dictionary of the First Settlers of New England" by James Savage; The Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc.; Baltimore, Maryland; 1981 (929.274 S264 LAPL) (NE Sec. SR)
Page: pg 269 Vol III. Title: Pioneers of Massachusetts - Chas Pope, Author: Charles Henry Pope; Publication: Genealogical Publishing Company, Note: "Pioneers of Massachusetts" by Charles Henry Pope; Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc; Baltimore, Maryland; 1900 (974.4 P81P ACPL) 1635, March 4: Page: pg 326
----------------------------
Dorset, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921

Name: Bertie Dabinett, Bachelor, Birth Year: abt 1894, Age: 26, Occ: House Decorator, Address: 6 South Walks, Fordington, Marriage or Bann Date: 25 Apr 1920. Parish: Fordington St George, Father's name: George John Dabinett; Occ: House Decorator, Spouse's Name: Beatrice Mary Newbury, spinster, Age: 28
Address: 4 Arlington Road, Fordington, Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Newbury; Occ: Labourer, Married by: Rev Grovesner Bartelot, Vicar. Witnesses: Joseph Newbury and Wilfred Joseph Newbury, Married after Banns, Source Citation: Dorset History Centre, Dorset Parish Registers, PE/FOR(SG).

Bertie Dabinett is the uncle of my 4th cousin
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Newberrychaser on Wednesday 04 April 12 23:53 BST (UK): Thank you for the responses, I have been looking a little deeper into this and discovered the following on:

http://www.oxforddnb.com/auth/login.jsp?url=%2Fsubscribed%2F
Abetot, Urse d' (c.1040–1108), administrator, derived his name from St Jean d'Abbetot, near Tancarville (Seine Inférieure) where he was probably born. He appears in Domesday Book as a tenant-in-chief in the counties of Hereford, Gloucester, Warwick, and Worcester, and as a subtenant in Dorset, Oxfordshire, and Wiltshire. He is styled ‘Urso de Wirecestre’ from his position as sheriff of Worcestershire, an office which he held from shortly after the Norman conquest. William of Malmesbury, describing him as vicecomes Wigorniae a rege constitutus (‘appointed sheriff of Worcester by the king’) , tells the story of his encroaching on the cemetery of Worcester Cathedral priory to make the ditch around his castle, and being sternly rebuked by Archbishop Ealdred (d. 1069): ‘Hattest thu Urs, haue thu Godes kurs’ (De gestis pontificum, 253). Urse earned a reputation in Worcestershire as a predator on monastic lands, especially those of the monks of Worcester: in one case he seized a manor as a marriage portion for his daughter, and Evesham Abbey, too, suffered at his hands. However, he was a benefactor of Great Malvern Priory, which, during a fourteenth-century lawsuit, claimed him as its founder. On the revolt of the earl of Hereford in 1075 he joined Bishop Wulfstan of Worcester and Abbot Æthelwig of Evesham in defeating the earl's forces.

In the reign of William II, d'Abetot was a prominent official in the royal administration. He remained sheriff of Worcestershire for life, and died in the course of 1108, when he was succeeded in his lands and office by his son Roger, who was banished c.1110 after killing an officer of Henry I. Roger d'Abetot was in turn succeeded as sheriff of Worcestershire by Osbert d'Abetot, who held office until a date between 1113 and 1116. Osbert was probably a brother of Urse and the ancestor of the d'Abetots who were prominent in Worcestershire in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, and who gave their name to the places Croome d'Abitot and Redmarley d'Abitot. Urse's daughter was probably named Emmeline; Dugdale identified her from a register of the dean and chapter of Worcester—presumably register II (now lost), since she is not named either in register I or in the rental of 1240. She married Walter (I) de Beauchamp (d. c.1133), who acquired the estates of Urse. The cognizance of the bear, borne by their descendants, the Beauchamp earls of Warwick, signified descent from Urse (ursus, Latin ‘the bear’). Urse was also survived by a widow, Alice. His brother, Robert Dispenser (surnamed from his office in the royal household), had died about 1097, and some, at least, of his estates were acquired by Urse, but were subsequently divided between the Beauchamp and Marmion families, suggesting that Robert was survived by a daughter, married to Robert Marmion.

J. H. Round, rev. Emma Mason
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I have looked into the wills of Christopher Dabinott and his brother in my research. There doesn't seem to be anything there that gives more information about the origins of their name. I am aware of the marriages to Thomas Newberry by the Dabinott women.

This all relates back through the Bore Badge of Richard III see http://www.r3.org/rnt1991/deadlyboar.html where the Neuburghs, Despenser and d'Abetot familes were allied in some way around 1066.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Linda63 on Saturday 25 January 14 23:40 GMT (UK): Hi there,

It's been a while since I've been on here. I gave the family tree a rest for about 18months as I'd got very stuck.

So here I am again with fresh eyes, ready to crack on with the tree.

The last time I was here there was some uncertainty about the parents of Arabella Ansel, my 6th Great Grandmother. Has anyone made any progress?

I think I have discovered her parents to be Thomas Ansell (b Ickleford c1694-1728) and Elizabeth Richardson (b Arlesey c1694-).

Can anyone confirm this?
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 26 January 14 06:54 GMT (UK): There's a baptism in Ickleford on 16 Jan 1715 of an Arabella Ansel, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth, which fits with a 1733 marriage. I'm not sure there's ever been uncertainty about Arabella, just about her husband. And with him it's not so much uncertainty as simply that no-one has a clue where he was from!

David
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: Linda63 on Sunday 26 January 14 15:45 GMT (UK): Thanks for confirming that.

I have Arabella's husband as Joseph Newberay b. Arlesey, Beds c1714, Is that correct?

As I said, I've come back to this after about 18 months so I'm picking over notes, trying to make sense of where I got to last time. So your help is much appreciated. :)
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 26 January 14 16:50 GMT (UK): See reply #18 in this thread. There's no evidence at all that he was born in Arlesey, and as the family is referred to as Newberry alias Monk in early baptisms there's a chance he may have been a Monk, but I've not found such a connection. I have a horrible feeling that the Newberry line is likely to be stuck with Joseph born say 1712.
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 26 January 14 17:59 GMT (UK): I now have uncertainty about Arabella, or more specifically, about her parents. The marriage you quote shows on the IGI, extracted, as taking place in Sep 1714 in Holwell, which fits very nicely. However the Allen Marriage Index on the HALS site shows it taking place on 3 Sep 1719, which doesn't fit at all (Thomas of Ickleford). I would want to check the parish register to see which of these years is correct. The IGI I hope!
Title: Re: The Mysterious James NEWBERRY
Post by: alunno-a on Wednesday 09 July 14 10:39 BST (UK): Further to this marriage, in my notes I found Thomas Ansell of Ickleford and Elizabeth Richardson of Holwell married 3 Sept 1719 from the PRs images on FindMyPast. This was a while ago, and when FindMyPast changed the site search I failed to re-find it to check the year again. I don't subscribe now so can't try again!-
so maybe these are not the correct parents, as there is both Arabella and a possible brother, Henry, born before the marriage date?
There seem to be quite a few Thomas Ansells around- and the Ickleford lot according to wills etc., seem to be wealthy land owners, titled etc., which doesn't fit at all with the Newberry ag lab types of Arlesey. Or have I got this wrong?

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