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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Mobo on Wednesday 07 December 05 09:34 GMT (UK)
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??? ???
I am searching for the family of Daniel Patrick WHELAN born circa 1900, or earlier.
According to family legend, he was studying for a Medical Degree in Dublin sometime after the Easter Rebellion (1916). However, he got caught up in 'the troubles' and was involved in the bombing of a Post Office. He was subsequently arrested, escaped to England, and through forged papers. changed his identity. He married an English girl in 1937 and raised a family, all under this assumed name. The family then emigrated to Australia circa 1954, and his true identity only emerged before his death in 1968.
I have written to Dublin University, but they have no record of him there as a student. Would anyone know if there's likely to be a record of his arrest anywhere ?
Any ideas on where to search next would be greatly appreciated.
??? ???
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Hi
The following link is interesting, but sorry, couldn't see any mention of your Daniel Whelan. And if you've already seen this, sorry!
Will keep looking though; my own area of research , in the Galtee mountains area of co.Limerick/Tipperary/Cork, was a hotbed of rebels, so something may yet turn up!
Cheers,
Mags
http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/history/east1916.html
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:) :)
Many thanks for that Mags - what a terrific read !!
I've contacted the Connaught email address, and the Celtic Knot - so hopefully someone just may be able to help.
Thanks again
:) :)
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http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/history.htm
Try this Mobo!!
http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/1916.htm
Annie ::)
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:) :)
Thanks Annie, but have already read this.
I suppose what I'm really looking for, is the birth of any Daniel Patrick WHELAN who might fit the bill, or any Census Return where he could have appeared. Very difficult, I know, when neither his parents nor place of birth are known.
Thank again
;) ;)
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Could there be more than one place in Dublin he might have studied medecine - maybe something like the Royal College of Surgeons, or even a hospital with a medical centre? Or was there only the university, Trinity College or Univ. College?
Just some musings....
Mags
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Hi all,
I have looked in " A Dictionary of Irish Biography " Third Edition.
Edited by Henry Boylan. Publishers Gill & Macmillan Ltd. 1998.
There is no mention of him in this edition.
This site may come in handy if you are able to establish the county
where Daniel's family lived. http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
Chris
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Hi Mobo!!
I don't know if this is connected to your Daniel .... but I thought I'd tell you anyway!! He was travelling with Nora Whelan both Single they are listed on the Manifest - but it is noted he did NOT sail - she did!!
Name Daniel Whelan
DOA 1 Nov 1923
Age 25
Origin Quilty Ireland
POD Cobh and Queenstown Ireland
Ship Franconia
POD Boston Massachusetts
Name of friend Father John Whelan
Roll # 288
Annie
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;D ;D
Yes Mags, I too think he may have been studying at a place other than Univerisity College, and thanks Christopher & Annie for the info, I'll keep it on file for future refererence.
This situation is such a 'needle in a haystack' thing, I think the only way I'm really going to find him, is through the record of his arrest. But where I'll find such records, I don't know ??
Thanks again.
??? ??? ???
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Just interested to know, how did his real identity actually emerge - did he 'confess all ' to a family member?
Mags
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:) :)
Yep !!
:) :)
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Just interested to know, how did his real identity actually emerge - did he 'confess all ' to a family member?
Mags
I am wondering too as I notice Patrick Whelan is on the list of those who died in the Easter Rising. Was it a written signed confession, before witnesses, or just verbal?
Chris
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Clutching at straws, maybe...but look at link below, scroll down to 1918
Mags
http://dungarvanmemories.users.btopenworld.com/years.htm
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Chris might know more about this- I would have thought that to study medicine at that time you would have had to be comfortably off and obviously educated - my ancestors would not have been able to do this for example.
I looked at a site earlier mentioning the execution of Patrick Whelan. His brother in more recent times said that Patrick had gone to Dublin for work. There was no mention of another brother.
Many prisoners were taken to England. Maybe that's what happened to Daniel.
I wonder what career he pursued in his freedom.
It's a tricky one this.
Good luck
Heywood
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Just interested to know, how did his real identity actually emerge - did he 'confess all ' to a family member? Mags
I am wondering too as I notice Patrick Whelan is on the list of those who died in the Easter Rising. Was it a written signed confession, before witnesses, or just verbal? Chris
All I know is, when he was buried in 1968 in Australia, it was under his real name. How long the family had known about his true identity I can't say. It's a bit tricky giving out too much info, as some of his relatives are still alive.
??? ???
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Chris might know more about this- I would have thought that to study medicine at that time you would have had to be comfortably off and obviously educated ............l.
I wonder what career he pursued in his freedom.It's a tricky one this. Good luck Heywood
When the family lived in England, they lived in a fine house, so he was obviously in a well paid job, and when they moved to Oz, he worked for a mining company.
??? ???
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Clutching at straws, maybe...but look at link below, scroll down to 1918
Mags
http://dungarvanmemories.users.btopenworld.com/years.htm
Well done again Mags. You are very consistent with really good information. We can forget my theory about the guy we are seeking dying in the Easter Rising in 1916 less Patrick Whelan returned to haunt the authorities. 8)
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Chris might know more about this- I would have thought that to study medicine at that time you would have had to be comfortably off and obviously educated - my ancestors would not have been able to do this for example.
I looked at a site earlier mentioning the execution of Patrick Whelan. His brother in more recent times said that Patrick had gone to Dublin for work. There was no mention of another brother.
Many prisoners were taken to England. Maybe that's what happened to Daniel.
I wonder what career he pursued in his freedom.
It's a tricky one this.
Good luck
Heywood
I agree with you here Heywood. The standard of education required to advance to a higher level to study medicine is pointing towards Daniel Patrick Whelan being grammar school educated as well as coming from a comfortable home background.
I wonder if Dr Linde Lunney, Editorial Secretary of "A Dictionary of Irish Biography" has anything on her files for the next edition regarding this man?
I have posted a message to her drawing attention to this thread.
Mobo, you have not mentioned where the family lived in England. I wonder if, since the family lived in a fine house and Daniel had a well paid job, there might be some information to be discovered about him in that locality.
Keep Hunting,
Chris
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:D :D
Again, very many thanks everyone for all your great input and suggestions.
However, as I said before, sometime after his arrest and escape, Daniel 'acquired' forged papers and became 'Joe Bloggs', remaining that 'person' all his life. Consequently any details on his life in England or Australia will not help with his true identity. This can only be found in Ireland.
;D ;D ;D
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I know we are all intrigued by this but it does seem to be going nowhere.
The bombing of 'a post office' seems to point to Easter 1916. The Royal College of Surgeons was seized then so those seem to tie in with part of this account.
I have been thinking (dangerous) that unless he graduated there may not be any records of his being at any university college. Again if he was at university in 1916, he would be born at least a couple of years before 1900.
At this point, I can only think of the Irish birth indexes for that name and taking it from there.
Good luck
Heywood
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:D :D
Again, very many thanks everyone for all your great input and suggestions.
However, as I said before, sometime after his arrest and escape, Daniel 'acquired' forged papers and became 'Joe Bloggs', remaining that 'person' all his life. Consequently any details on his life in England or Australia will not help with his true identity. This can only be found in Ireland.
;D ;D ;D
Sorry Mobo,
You know about the terrier with the bone. That is me. Daniel may be hiding behind his forged papers but possibly the Christian names of his children were those of his parents or siblings at home in Ireland. The Christian names of his children and grandchildren can only be found in England or Australia.
All the Best Christopher
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I know we are all intrigued by this but it does seem to be going nowhere.
The bombing of 'a post office' seems to point to Easter 1916. The Royal College of Surgeons was seized then so those seem to tie in with part of this account.
I have been thinking (dangerous) that unless he graduated there may not be any records of his being at any university college. Again if he was at university in 1916, he would be born at least a couple of years before 1900.
At this point, I can only think of the Irish birth indexes for that name and taking it from there.
Good luck Heywood
How do I access these birth indexes Heywood please ??
:D :D
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The local LDS (Mormon) Libraries have them - on microfilm - so you could look at them perhaps from 1900 back and the only way then is the hard slog of identifying Daniel Patrick Whelans and sending for copy birth certificates. I'm trying to think of what would happen then.
Depending on what you find then you could access 1901 and 1911 censuses for any hopeful areas. Again the LDS will order them - this is all going to cost money I'm sad to say but ... I have had a look at the Lietrim Roscommon 1901
census site which has some coverage now of a few counties (not complete at all) but there is no one suitable. Again you come across Daniel or even just Dan as a name but going back to my theory of education you would hope that the full name was given in the census.
I don't think there is a name index for any of the censuses so again it would be a trawl through areas that you could pinpoint through birth records.
I feel I am rambling noe so will go.
Again- lots of luck to you
Kath (Heywood)
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Educational of nothing else! I just read this:
Sean O'Faolain. Born Feb 22nd 1900 CO Cork. Writer of short stories about Ireland's lower and middle class. he changed his name from John Francis Whelan in 1916, when he witnessed the brutality shown to the volunteers by the British.
I never knew that! He just went irish though and not a complete change of identity.
Heywood
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Daniel Whelan, Ophally St, Athy Town, St. Michaels Co. Kildare
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
Daniel Whelan lived in Athy in 1851 when Griffiths Valuation was conducted in the county. I would tend to look at the Daniels, Patricks and the names of the women. I realise we are looking a period about fifty years before Daniel was born. We may find his grandfather. I would tend to put the family in a wealthy county like Kildare based on the assumption made earlier that he probably came from a home background which was comfortable.
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;D ;D
Wee-eee-eee !! I'm going dizzy with all the many comments and suggestions :o :o
Boo-hoo - I just hoped that there might be an 1891 and/or 1901 Census online for Ireland that I could access. My days of sitting at fische readers in dimly-lit libraries are well and truly past. Ah me !!
To answer your question Christopher, Daniel Patrick only had two children; Danny (named after him, as we were later to discover) and Susan, named after his English wife. So no clues there. His middle name of Patrick could be a clue however.
As I said previously - it's like looking for 'a needle in a haystack'
Thank you all, just the same.
;) ;)
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Hi again
This site is full of interesting info re. what was going on at the time; don't know if 'Pax Whelan' is anything to do with your man, I assume Pax is a form of Patrick.
http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/irishcivilwar.html
Cheers,
Mags
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So,he may not have qualified,as a Surgeon?Or was that his job with the mining co;and if a qualified 'Leech',he would have had other connection,s,tool's of his trade,and would have trouble if required to hide in a manual worker's job.From a well off background,speech and clothing would mark him,not to mention manner's,social+at table!
Classmate's?neighbour's names,just thinking out loud,take no notice.Daniel Patrick Whelan,Idont suppose my good friend 'Google'would have an immmediate answer but I shall enquire
H'mmm,Goggy. ;)
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Mobo:
I have been following this thread with interest and have a few observations. I would concentrate on the period after the Easter Rebellion of 1916. My guess is that your man was involved with the Anti-Treaty lads in the period 1921-22. Just as Irish genealogy is mind-numbing at times, so is that period of Irish History. Many who were involved in the activities of 1916 and later did not go along with the treaty and there was a bloody, harsh civil war. The government (Freestaters) was unforgiving and many of the Anti-Treaty IRA men left Ireland under fear of death. Here is a link to a well-written account of that period. Your Daniel sounds like he was one.
http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/threemon_printable.php?id=70
Good luck,
(and I will keep pondering)
Pat
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;) ;)
As I said previously, "I'm going dizzy with all the many comments and suggestions". Thank you very much Pat - I'm learning an awful lot about Irish History of the period, it's very interesting indeed. Also thanks goggy & mags.
;) ;)
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Just a thought on looking in ,and while the kettle boils,those scones look nice too.
Yer man's initial's,and sample of hand writing?Anything available,pre+post his flight?Photo's?Description on passport he used?
His family are still about arent they,Ithink you mentioned the no embarrasment rule?
MY look round hasn't picked up anything that ring's bell's,but it has left a powerful thirst!!
Goggy. ;D
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Hiya Folks,
I have had a look at an article about the Easter Rising. This year was the 90th Anniversary of that event. Bertie Ahern took the brave step of deciding to revive the Anniversary Ceremony and wreath laying. His decision has strengthened the position of the Fianna Fail party, originally led by Eamon de Valera, a leader of the Rising -- About time too I say. The press at Easter time are usually full of pictures of the leaders of the IRA's political ally, Sinn Fein , commemorating the rising. Sinn Fein, which has long considered itself the only true Irish republican party, has been growing steadily in popularity. Bertie Ahern's Fianna Fail government has gone some way towards recognizing that Irishmen, from whichever part of Ireland, who died in the wars in 1916 (be it the Rising or the Battle of the Somme) should receive an equal honour. Such changes in attitudes may mean that the names of Daniel Patrick Whelan and others like him who have not yet been mentioned may yet appear in books about that period of Irish history. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/04/16/ireland.parade.reut/index.html
Chris
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I have been doing family research and I may have some info on Daniel Patrick Whelan if you are interested.
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wonder if there's any connection this man
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM78-4QD
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM78-Q54
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http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/index.html
Link for Bureau of Military history with search facility.