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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Europe Resources & Offers => Topic started by: loo on Sunday 11 December 05 22:07 GMT (UK)
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(I have moved my bibliography from another thread, so that it will be easier for people to find and use.)
I have been compiling bibliography related to WWI enemy alien internments in Britain, with specific reference to German aliens, although you will find things here about other nationalities as well. They are in no particular order.
Harris, Janet. Alexandra Palace: a hidden history. Tempus Publishing Ltd., 2005. 128 pages. ISBN: 0752436368
The hidden history is that of the internment of Germans at Ally Pally in WW1. I own this book. Great photos; informative. The author's great-uncle, Carl Turk, was an internee.
Dove, Richard, ed. 'Totally un-English'? Britain's Internment of 'Enemy Aliens' in Two World Wars. Amsterdam/New York: Rodopi, 2005. 214 pp.
Series: Yearbook of the Research Centre for German & Austrian Exile Studies 7. Scholarly. Now available in some libraries. (Note to Keith: It includes one WW2 article about Italians by Sponza.) http://www.rodopi.nl/ntalpha.asp?BookId=EXILE+7&type=new&letter=W
West, Margery. Island at War Laxey:Western Books (Author's own publication), 1986 (ISBN 0-9511512-0-7) Contains names of several internees at Knockaloe, and also photos of them with their names.
Sargeaunt, B. E. The Isle of Man & the Great War Douglas: Brown & Sons 1920. Some extracts can be found online. http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/genealgy/intern.htm
Cohn-Portheim, Paul. Time Stood Still: my Internment in England. New York: E F Dutton, 1931. or London: Duckworth.
Panayi, P. 'Anti-immigrant riots in nineteenth and twentieth-century Britain', in Panayi, Panikos (ed.), Racial violence in Britain, 1840-1950. p.1-25, (Leicester, 1993).
Kershaw, Roger, and Mark Pearsall. Immigrants and Aliens: A Guide to Sources on UK Immigration & Citizenship. National Archives 2004.
Bird, J.C. Control of Enemy Alien Civilians in Great Britain 1914-1918. London: Garland Publishing, 1986
David Cesarini and Tony Kushner, eds., The Internment of Aliens in 20th C Britain. ISBN 0 7146 3466 2 London: Cass, 1993.
[This group of studies first appeared in a special issue on 'The internment of aliens in twentieth century Britain' of Immigrants and Minorities 11:3]
Panayi, Panikos, The enemy in our midst. 1991. This one is academic, but very good.
Ellis, Mark; and Panikos Panayi. "German Minorities in World War I: A Comparative Study of Britain and the USA." Ethnic and Racial Studies 17, no. 2 (1994): 238-59.
Bernard, Roy. My German Family in England. Anglo German Family History Society 1991. ISBN 0 9514133 5 X
Dunbar-Kalckreuth, Frederick Lewis. Die Männerinsel Paul Lift Verlag: Leipzig 1940 - has description of Isle of Man internment camp life 1916-1917. Unfortunately, only in German.
An Insight into Civilian Internment in Britain during WWI. From the Diary of Richard Noschke and a short essay by Rudolf Rocke. published by the Anglo-German FAmily History Society. Contains a lot of info and photos re: Alexandra Palace. Make sure you get the 1998 version, which has the photos.
Panayi, Panikos. “The Destruction of the German Communities in Britain during the First World War”, in: Germans in Britain since 1500. London Hambledon Press 1996. ISBN 1 85285 126 0
Cresswell, Yvonne M., ed. Living with the Wire: Civilian Internment in the Isle of Man during the two World Wars. Pub: Manx National Heritage (1994). ISBN 0-901106-35-6
Internment of Enemy Aliens in Great Britain, within the Empire and at Sea during 1914. by Len Barnett, privately published, 2004
Panayi, P. Immigration, ethnicity and racism in Britain, 1815-1945 (Manchester, 1994). 170p.
Steve Humphries and Richard van Emden All quiet on the home front : an oral history of life in Britain during the First World War. London : Headline, 2003. 334 p., ISBN: 0755311884. Chapter 3, "The Enemy Within", deals with how the lives of "aliens" were affected...
St. Stephen's House: Friends’ Emergency Work in England, 1914 TO 1920. Compiled by Anna Braithwaite Thomas et al. Published by the Emergency Committee for the Assistance of Germans, Austrians and Hungarians in Distress (registered by the London County Council under the War Charities Act, 1916). I have a copy of this one; it has a few photos, many stories but few names.
Mitteilungsblatt, the journal of the Anglo-German Family History Society. There have been quite a few relevant articles in this journal over the last few years. Some are listed below.
Tom Wood, "The internment of enemy civilians in wartime Britain", Family Tree Magazine (UK), v.15, 1998, Nov., p. 51-52. I have a copy of this.
Additional bibliography (and some overlap) can be found here: http://www.gov.im/mnh/heritage/library/bibliographies/internment.xml
Continued below.
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INTERNET SOURCES:
Lists of people who died in the internment camps on the Isle of Man during WW1: http://www.lawsons.ca/burials/intern.html ,
http://www.iomguide.com/internment-camps/knockaloe.php
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,125654.0.html
Other sites of interest:
Knockaloe: http://www.iomguide.com/right-photos.php?2162
Internees: http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/roots/intro/migration/parliament5.htm#
www.imagesofengland.org.uk has a photo and description of the camp at Lancaster - IoE number: 383096. It was formerly the Lancaster Carriage and Waggon Works Company.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/podcasts/internment.htm - many interesting photos and helpful podcast that you can listen to.
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Interned_Aliens_and_Prisoners_of_War#top - story of Elizabeth Schonewald.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/ifa_d13civilianinternees1914_1922.pdf "Civilian internees, 1914-1922." TNA will search all records for you for £90 (as of 2011) - see bottom of this pdf.
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ARCHIVAL SOURCES - INTERNMENTS
Haringey Museum and Archives at Bruce Castle, especially for Alexandra Palace camp.
Library of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). This must be in London?
University of Birmingham, Cadbury Research Library. YMCA/ACC40 - "YMCA Unofficial Papers: Publications of the German YMCA in London." Many people involved with this organization were interned. This archive consists of two publications by Bernd Hildebrandt, one being the book It CAN Be! (see entry below; hard to find in libraries), the other a very short history celebrating 125 years, published in 1985 (superseded by It CAN Be! in 2010, and no longer available generally).
See: http://calmview.bham.ac.uk/TreeBrowse.aspx?db=Catalog&field=RefNo&key=XYMCAACC40
Southern Illinois University Special Collections Research Center:
Stobs camp: "Friedrich Strune papers, 1917-1918".
Reference: GB 738 MS 217
Title: Small Jewish Collections
Dates of Creation: 1744-1990s
Held at: University of Southampton Libraries Special Collections
Extent: 6 boxes (the entire collection, not just the part about internments.)
Includes photographs of Jewish servicemen and others at Knockaloe Camp, 1915. I have not seen it yet.
"Important police notice - the undermentioned prisoners of war escaped from the internment camp at Sutton Bonington in this county during last night... " Nottingham: 1917. by W. Harrop, Superintendent and Deputy Chief Constable, County Police Office. Gives list of thirteen escapees with description, but I have not seen it yet. This document is to be found in the Imperial War Museum. ID Number:[0] K 61815
International Committee of the Red Cross archives in Geneva:
The work done by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in WW1 is covered in the "Bulletin" of the International Committee of the Red Cross in a special series of reports of the visits carried out by delegates to the camps under the heading 'Documents publiés à l'occasion de la Guerre de 1914-1918'. The following files are said by Caroline Moorehead to contain relevant papers: Box 24 III/419, VI, VIi/419, X/419 and XX; Box 25 XV and XIX; Box 39 XI/5; Box 43 II/17; Box 47 VI/1 and VI/8; FAW 36, 37 and 10. This would not likely be a strong source for finding out information about individuals, although there may be references to comments made to or by the ICRC observers. These references are NOT the files which would have the records of individuals internees, as those must be separately requested. These archival references will tell you about the visits made by ICRC representatives, presumably naming the camps, and saying what the conditions were etc.
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Continuing the bibliography... (too large for single post.)
Schimming, Otto. 13 Monate hinter dem Stacheldraht: Alexandra Palace, Knockaloe ... Stratford, etc. (13 Months behind Barbed Wire: Alexandra Palace, Knockaloe... Stratford, etc.) pp. 32. Stuttgart, 1919. ('Stacheldraht' = 'barbed wire')
Quin, Malcolm. Friends and Enemies. n.d. This one reflects the experience of the Friends (Quakers) Emergency Committee which tried to help out the aliens during WW2. I don't yet know whether it ever got past the manuscript stage and into publication, but it did exist. I have not been able to find it anywhere. Is referenced on p.10 of St. Stephen's House. If anyone ever finds this, please please send me a PM. Thanks.
Graves, Robert. Goodbye to All That. Graves was the officer in charge of the camp at Lancaster. See chapter 10, where he verifies that children were interned.
"Tracing Mariner and Alien Ancestors," by John Illingworth, Midland Ancestor (BMSHG) vol.10 no.12 (June 1995) pp 464-466
Prisoners of War Information Bureau. List of Places of Internment. apparently this is or was available from the Imperial War Museum in London. It may be a government document, but I am not sure. "Prisoners of War Information Bureau" may be the author rather than part of the title, but I am not sure. I have not seen it.
Walling, John. The Internment and Treatment of German Nationals during the 1st World War Great Grimsby: Riparian Publishing, 2005. ISBN 0-952-38482-5 Lofthouse and Knockaloe are profiled, along with experiences of individuals.
Walling, John. Coming Home. Riparian Publishing, 2008. ISBN: 9780952384830 Fiction. 222p. Supposed to be well-researched historical novel based on family coming from Germany to London 1870, followed later by WW1 internment.
Walling, John, 1928-. 'Held; prisoner at Lofthouse Camp'. Mitteilungsblatt, journal of the Anglo-German Family History Society, 50 (1999), 31-33. ISSN 09543457.
Walling, John, 1928. 'Lofthouse Park Camp Wakefield' [Internment camp First World War]. Mitteilungsblatt , journal of the Anglo-German Family History Society, 45 (1998), 36-37. ISSN 09543457.
Cesarani, David. 'Camps de la mort, camps de concentration et camps d'internement dans la mémoire collective britannique' [Death camps, concentration camps and internment camps in British collective memory]. Vingtième Siècle, 54 (1997), 13-23. Publisher: Presses de la Fondation nationale des sciences politiques. ISSN 02941759.
Gullace, Nicoletta F. 'Friends, Aliens, and Enemies : Fictive Communities and the Lusitania Riots of 1915'. Journal of Social History, 39:2 (2005), 345-67. ISSN 00224529. ISSN (electronic) 15271897.
Willis, L. Carl. 'Internment in England as remembered by the families of three Lutz brothers'. Mitteilungsblatt, journal of the Anglo-German Family History Society, 67 (2Tracing Mariner and Alien Ancestors, by John Illingworth, Midland Ancestor (BMSHG) vol.10 no.12 (June 1995) pp 464-466 004), 35-39. ISSN 09543457.
Germans in London, compiled by Howard Bloch and Graham Hill. ISBN 0-9538370-0-9. £12.50 + 90p p&p from All Points East, c/o 69 Frinton Road, London, E6 3HE 020 8472 6530 howardbloch --at-- hotmail.com -
Apparently discusses a jute factory in Woolwich which was turned into an internment camp - must be the Stratford camp?
It CAN be!: 150 years German YMCA in London 1860-2010. by Bernd W Hildebrandt, German Young Men's Christian Association. (London, England). London: German YMCA in London, 2010. 448p. £14.99 ISBN: 978-0-9566779-0-7. See http://www.german-ymca.org.uk/about-us-history.html and http://www.german-ymca.org.uk/german-ymca-book-sample-pages.pdf for details. There are some names on the pdf, where there is a book index, pp419ff. Members were interned WW1&2.
Craftsman and Quaker: the story of James T. Baily, 1876-1957. Leslie Baily. Allen & Unwin, 1959. BAILY was a Quaker who visited the WW1 internment camps in Britain.
Dunant's dream: war, Switzerland and the history of the Red Cross. by Moorehead, Caroline. London: HarperCollins, 1998. This book covers much more than WW1, but it is a fascinating view of war. The references to internees in Britain can be found on pages 196-7 and 253. She states that there was a camp at Queensferry, 6 miles from Chester, in an old factory, which housed 2000 German internees of military age, apparently civilians.
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Loo, do you know of an interment camp called holywell? Sorry have no ideal where it was.
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Not yet! But that doesn't mean it didn't exist.
There was one at Holloway prison in WW2 though; it was used for women aliens. Does that ring a bell? Perhaps it was used in WW1 as well; I don't know.
I will keep an eye out for your holywell, and will post if I find a reference to it.
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Hi Loo, it was Holywell, and it was my Italian great grandfather, on form it says he was transferred there? for abt a week in 1916, then came back to birmingham, it was the word "transferred" that got me wondering!! Many thanks for looking!!
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I have not read everything in this biliography yet, so feel free to do your own hunting as well!
If you are in Britain, and are having trouble finding a library which has these items, I suggest you try http://www.copac.ac.uk
If you are in Canada, and are having trouble finding a library which has these items, I suggest you try http://www.collectionscanada.ca/search/006001-100.01-e.php
In all parts of the world, it is worth searching www.worldcat.org for a library copy.
These books can often be purchased in used condition very reasonably through www.abebooks.com . I recently bought Janet Harris' book, listed at £12.99 on back cover, for £8.30 including shipping to Canada - in new condition.
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hi i'm looking for an interment camp that would have been in the north east near redcar in WW1,my great grandad lived in redcar and the story i have been told is he was held in a camp locally during the first war as he was german can you help
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I don't know of anything off-hand, but you could join the Anglo-German FHS, and they might know; for a fee, they will search their records for your ggf. Some of the camps in WW1 were really fly-by-night, and records are scarce to non-existent. They would often just commandeer some building or even placed people on farms to get them out of sight. You may very well find something in one of these books, however. Good luck! Last resort is the Red Cross in Geneva, who may have a record of where your ggf was, but they are expensive. It's probably easier to search for a name than a place.
You could also try whatever local history organizations exist in the redcar area; some old-timer there might remember.
The librarian/archivist at the historical site on the Isle of Man is helpful, and may know.
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thanks for that loo,i am already a member of the anglo-german fhs never thought of asking them ,and i know of a site that has a member who knows a lot about redcar thanks for the ideas
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Hello. As new member, I hope this gets to you Cath. I live in Redcar and am researching my Great Uncle John Brickmann, who was interned from M'bro in December 1914, shortly after the German navy bombarded Hartlepool, Scarborough etc. He was sent to Lofthouse Camp at Wakefield and died there in 1916. Don't know of a local camp, but there may have been.
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Hi I'm seeking data on my maternal grandfather who was interned as a civilain enemy alien at the outbreak of WW1. He was born in Palestine and was working on citrus fruit importation into the UK on Ellerman line ships. As a "Turk" he was interned fo some months. I'd also welcome info on the Internment Hearing Tribunals too. I appreciate that there are hardly any personal files surviving about individuals re this episode and I've alos launched a search with the ICRC in Geneva (it iwll take 6-12 months!).
Best wishes,
David
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Continuing the bibliography...
Michael McDonagh. In London during the Great War. London: Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1935. He was a journalist for The Times, and wrote about the camp at Alexandra Palace, perhaps Stratford as well.
Dr. Adolf Lukas Vischer. Barbed Wire Disease; a psychological study of the prisoner of war... . London: John Bale, sons & Danielsson, Ltd., 1919. 84p. Translated from the German with additions by the author. Concerns the health problems of internees.
Dr. Henry S. Simonis (internee). Zum alten jüdischen Zivilrecht. Eine rechtstheoretische und rechtsvergleichende Studie, verfasst 1917 im Zivilgefangenenlager Alexandra Palace. Berlin: Philo Verlag, 1922.
http://judaica-frankfurt.de/urn/urn:nbn:de:hebis:30-180014563008
Only in German as far as I know. I understand this book was written while he was an internee, but I am unclear whether it is actually about that experience.
Mrs C. S. Peel (Dorothy Constance). How we lived then, 1914-1918: a sketch of social and domestic life in England during the war. London: John Lane, 1929. Covers what happened to the families, to some extent.
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From reading this board I take it there is no definitive lists of internment camps in the UK for WW1. My Grandfather (Friedrich August Louis Schoch) was living in Newcastle (the northerly one) and had his own butcher shop at the time. Being a German national he was interred (along with his Uk wife Ethel Schoch nee Gibson, who went with him to the camp..I'm told).
WW2: the same thing happened but this time she did not go with him as they had children by then.
I was hoping to find some kind of source to give me details on this.
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Hi,
I'm currently doing a research project for York Museums Trust on the use of York Castle Prison for internments in WW1, any suggestions on where I might find something on this? Do you know if it's mentioned in any of the sources in this bibliography? I'm also interested in the Leeman Road concentration camp in York that also operated in WW1.
Thanks,
Ed
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From reading this board I take it there is no definitive lists of internment camps in the UK for WW1. My Grandfather (Friedrich August Louis Schoch) was living in Newcastle (the northerly one) and had his own butcher shop at the time. Being a German national he was interred (along with his Uk wife Ethel Schoch nee Gibson, who went with him to the camp..I'm told).
WW2: the same thing happened but this time she did not go with him as they had children by then.
I was hoping to find some kind of source to give me details on this.
I searched the „free from internment“ records on TNA for immigrants from the area where my grandfather’s family originate a few weeks ago and your post urged me to go back and check for Shoch. There is a record for a Frederick Shoch, born Ohringen (Öhringen) who was interned from 1914-1919 but was exempted from further internment.
It says he is married to a British born wife and never wishes to go back to Germany. Has lived in England since the age of 16. The date of marriage tallies with that of FAL Shoch who married Ethel Gibson 8.5.1912 in Newcastle. Residence in 1939: Hull area.
Reference is HO 396/81/196. It is under “Moving here” and you can download his record.
Öhringen is in the Hohenlohe area in Baden-Württemberg and a great number of pork butchers emigrated from there from 1850 onwards.
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It seems I can no longer modify (i.e. make additions to) previous posts in this thread, so you will have to put up with multiple shorter additions from time to time! Here is one addition to the bibliography, which covers a number of settings in both world wars:
Cultural heritage and prisoners of war: creativity behind barbed wire. / edited by Gilly Carr and Harold Mytum. New York: Routledge, 2012. 316p.
Contents: "Astounding and encouraging": high and low art produced in internment on the Isle of Man during the Second World War / Rachel Dickson, Sarah MacDougall and Ulrike Smalley -- Creativity and internment identities. -- Kulturkrieg and Frontgeist from behind the wire: World War I newspapers from Douglas Internment Camp / Jennifer Kewly Draskau -- Captivity in print: the form and function of POW camp magazines / Oliver Wilkinson -- The women's embroideries of internment in the Far East 1942-1945 / Bernice Archer and Alan Jeffreys -- Madonnas and prima donnas: the representation of women in an Italian prisoner of war camp in South Africa / Donato Somma-- Necessity, the mother of invention: ingenuity in German prisoner of war camps / Peter Doyle -- Camp domesticity: shifting gender boundaries in WWI internment camps / Iris Rachamimov.
The importance of creativity behind barbed wire: setting a research agenda / Gilly Carr and Harold Mytum -- Creativity and narratives of survival. -- Wonder bar: music and theatre as strategies for survival in a Second World War POW hospital camp / Sears Eldredge -- "Spiritual vitamins": music in Huyton and central internment camps, May 1940-January 1941 / Suzanne Snizek -- Tins, tubes and tenacity: inventive medicine in camps in the Far East / Meg Parkes -- Creativity and the body: civilian internees in British Asia during the Second World War / Felicia Yap -- The arts of survival: remaking the inside spaces of Japanese American concentration camps / Jane Dusselier -- Narratives and counter-narratives of internment. -- In the distorted mirror: cartoons and photography of Polish and British POWs in Wehrmacht captivity / Anna Wickiewicz -- Souvenirs of internment: camp newspapers as a tangible record of a forgotten experience / Euan Mckay -- Deciphering dynamic networks from static images: First World War photographs at Douglas Camp / Harold Mytum -- Beyond collaboration and resistance: "Accommodation" at the Weihsien Internment Camp, China, 1943-1945 / Jonathan Henshaw -- "God save the king!" creative modes of protest, defiance and identity in Channel Islander internment camps in Germany, 1942-1945 / Gilly Carr --
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Hello :)
I am wondering whether any of you might be able to help me find out more about my 3x great grandfather who was a German living in Glasgow during WW1.
His name was John Christian Louis Maass and he was a seaman in the merchant navy. He came to the UK sometime in the late 1870s and married an Irish lady called Mary Catherine Kerrigan in 1880.
He was born in 1858 somewhere in northern Germany, I think Bremen.
Sometime in the early 20th century he changed his surname from "Maass" to "Moss", obviously to appear less German. However on his death certificate he and his wife are "Maass" once more.
During WW1, he was the victim of Germanophobia. According to my late great grandmother, his wife owned a dairy shop and its windows were smashed in during the war. The family home was raided because of accusations from John's neighbours that he was a "spy". He was apparently arrested and I think interned. Its the last part I would like to confirm or deny if possible.
I would LOVE than to be able to find out more about his experiences during the war. He died in March 1916.
After the First World War my great uncles visited their relatives in Germany and kept in touch via letters right up to the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Matt
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Do you know where he was interned?
For Isle of Man Internment Camps see this site:
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/genealgy/intern.htm
There are some links there, too.
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If you go to the Imperial War Museums website, http://iwm.org.uk/collections/search , and search for internments, Alexandra Palace, Knockaloe, Wakefield, Dorchester, or other relevant terms, you can find a lot of interesting images.
Some of the prisoners whose names are mentioned are: A. Moro, George Mayer, C. Kurz, Steuer, von Boyneburg, Koehn, Riessner, Dr. Lutz, Fiegel, Prof. Feuerberg, Gunisch, Postel, Kapitan Tarnow, Lodter, Kupfer, Meister, Grusovnik, Faust, Schreiber, Schiller, Haeusler, Kuenzemueller, Fabian, Kapitan Karbiner, Bruegelmann, Wolters, Scuhmacher, Kapitan von Freeden, Kapitan Schlueter, W Schlundt, O Heyn, H.B., St Diet, J Sedlmayer, K Streitzig, K Richter, G Haering, H Kupfer, Hauptmann Bewer, Kreutzer, Froitzheim, Mayr, Wolters, Major Scmidt-Reder, Eduard Krohn. There are likely others as well. Some of these may have been POWs - unclear - but I think most were civilian internees.
There are numerous water colours of Alexandra Palace, by George Kenner, internee.
Not all entries have images, but presumably you could go to the Museum in question to see the item.
Another item which is probably very revealing but must be viewed in person at this time, indexed here, is English transcript of Kenner's internment journal with related photographs and ephemera, Catalogue number Art.IWM ARCH 27.
Some fascinating images here, worth a look!
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This is the reply I received from the Red Cross a few years ago.
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This is the reply I received from the Red Cross a few years ago.
Amazing that you have an ancestor who was a German living in Britain during WW1 as well.
How should I go about contacting the Red Cross?
Our Great Uncles were both in the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers and lived in Glasgow too.
I'm finding some interesting parallels between our family histories :)
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This is the reply I received from the Red Cross a few years ago.
Amazing that you have an ancestor who was a German living in Britain during WW1 as well.
How should I go about contacting the Red Cross?
Our Great Uncles were both in the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers and lived in Glasgow too.
I'm finding some interesting parallels between our family histories :)
Matt the German ancestry is only through marriage, so not really an ancester on my side. I'll get back to you mate on the address for the Red Cross, but be prepared to wait for a long time for a reply from the RC, as they are generally snowed under with requests
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Tom Wood, "The internment of enemy civilians in wartime Britain", Family Tree Magazine (UK), v.15, 1998, Nov., p. 51-52. I have a copy of this.
Continued below.
Hi Loo, I don't suppose you have your copy scanned in and wouldn't mind sending it over? Would be greatly appreciated! thanks, E
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Just as a little aside I have come across the Hubner family in the UK.
In 1939-40 Rudolf Hubner (the elder) was interned by the British as he was born in that part of Austria which became Czechoslovakia after WWI. He was also interned (twice) in WWI.
His son, also called Rudolf, who was born in Britain, had married a French woman and was working for Reddifusion Francaise in France in 1940. He was interned by the Germans.
I just wondered if this was a unique occurrence with father and son being interned by two different sides.
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Another book that has come to my attention:
Panayi, Panikos. Prisoners of Britain: German civilian and combatant internees during the First World War. Manchester University Press, 2014. 360 pages.
The book covers the three different types of internees in Britain in the form of: civilians already present in the country in August 1914; civilians brought to Britain from all over the world; and combatants. Using a vast range of contemporary British and German sources the volume traces life experiences through initial arrest and capture to life behind barbed wire to return to Germany or to the remnants of the German community in Britain.
The WW1 internment records of the International Red Cross can now be searched online, and you can see the original index cards!
http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en
I found my guy. Turns out he was first interned at Alexandra Palace, then Spalding (Lincs) and repatriated 18 April 1918. Great progress on a very old mystery, as I was reluctant to pay the fee.
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Another book that has come to my attention:
Panayi, Panikos. Prisoners of Britain: German civilian and combatant internees during the First World War. Manchester University Press, 2014. 360 pages.
The book covers the three different types of internees in Britain in the form of: civilians already present in the country in August 1914; civilians brought to Britain from all over the world; and combatants. Using a vast range of contemporary British and German sources the volume traces life experiences through initial arrest and capture to life behind barbed wire to return to Germany or to the remnants of the German community in Britain.
The WW1 internment records of the International Red Cross can now be searched online, and you can see the original index cards!
http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en
I found my guy. Turns out he was first interned at Alexandra Palace, then Spalding (Lincs) and repatriated 18 April 1918. Great progress on a very old mystery, as I was reluctant to pay the fee.
Hi Loo,
Thanks for the book and the link. Could you help me out? I tried to find my guy but couldn't. Perhaps I am not using the search function properly. Can you see a "John Christian Louis Moss" or a "Johann Christian Ludwig Maass" or some variant of this in the index?
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Hi Matt,
I found the following:
Ludwig MAASS, 40 years, interned at Alexandra Palace (London), 1915.
Johann MAAS, interned 1915, almost no info on him.
If he wasn't around 40 years, it could be the latter one.
Germans often were known by the last of their forenames.
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Hi Matt,
I found the following:
Ludwig MAASS, 40 years, interned at Alexandra Palace (London), 1915.
Johann MAAS, interned 1915, almost no info on him.
If he wasn't around 40 years, it could be the latter one.
Germans often were known by the last of their forenames.
Hello Loo :)
Thank you for that, much appreciated. It would be disappointing if he was the second one and there is so little concerning him, nonetheless in other documents he does go by the name "Johan Maass". I've only ever seen him call himself "Christian Maass", for instance in the 1880 census. He never used "Ludwig Maass" to my recollection.
Johann (my great-great-great grandfather) was older than 40. His death certificate in the latter years of the war puts him at 58, so he would have been in his mid-50s in 1915.
From what I was told by his granddaughter (my great grandmother) before she passed away, he owned a shop and the windows were broken by a mob during the Lusitania Riots in 1915. Soon after, his neighbours contacted the police claiming that he was a German spy. The police then raided his home and according to the story I heard, took him away. My great-grandmother believed that he died prematurely at 58 due to the mental stress caused by his internment, police interrogation and the 'betrayal' of his neighbours.
Recently, I discovered a very interesting "Poor Relief" document relating to him and his Irish wife. He was receiving money from the German government since he was still considered a German national until the war eventually disrupted this and made him unable to visit the German consulate.
The salient part reads:
Widow. Housewife. Husband John Moss, died. Born Germany, Protestant. Son of Christian Moss & Marion Lang, both dead.
Husband was receiving 15/- per week from the German government for some time before his death, and after death his widow received 10/- per week up till 22nd October last when she received a letter from the Swiss Legation in London intimating that payment would cease in respect that "your late husband had lost his nationality through long residence in this (Britain) country without registering at German consulates. Also owing to the fact that you do not intend to return to Germany"
She receives 3/- per week from St Vincent DePaul. Applies for relief.
Maybe knowledge of this receipt of money from the German government were the source of the 'spy rumours' (which were endemic at the time) that led his neighbours to so distrust him. I also know that Johann had intended to return to Germany when the war started in August 1914. He was going to ship his eldest daughter away to live with her aunt and uncle in Greifswald. However his wife decided against this and so the family stayed, with the result that Johann ultimately lost his German citizenship legally after his death - as his widowed wife was informed.
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That's quite a story, Matt, and it fits with what is known of the history of the times.
There are many stories of the men developing serious mental health problems while interned. Boredom seems to have been a major risk factor.
My guy was a baker and had his own shop also but I have no family anecdotes about him. Only one person in the extended family knew anything at all about him, namely that he had existed and was interned. Although I have only searched through a small proportion of the records, it seemed that a great many of them were arrested in the Fall of 1915, including mine, and I believe this conforms with the historical record.
That's a great idea, to search the Poor Relief records. I can't do that from my side of the pond.
As you probably know, the lives of British wives of internees were restricted and they automatically lost their citizenship.
Were you able to find the record I referenced for Johann?
If he was in London, it's a good bet he was interned first at Alexandra Palace.
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That's quite a story, Matt, and it fits with what is known of the history of the times.
There are many stories of the men developing serious mental health problems while interned. Boredom seems to have been a major risk factor.
My guy was a baker and had his own shop also but I have no family anecdotes about him. Only one person in the extended family knew anything at all about him, namely that he had existed and was interned. Although I have only searched through a small proportion of the records, it seemed that a great many of them were arrested in the Fall of 1915, including mine, and I believe this conforms with the historical record.
That's a great idea, to search the Poor Relief records. I can't do that from my side of the pond.
As you probably know, the lives of British wives of internees were restricted and they automatically lost their citizenship.
Were you able to find the record I referenced for Johann?
If he was in London, it's a good bet he was interned first at Alexandra Palace.
Hi Loo :)
I haven't found the record yet, I'm going to have another search to see if I can locate it (for some reason I'm not very good at using the search function!), thanks again for bringing it to my attention. It was very helpful of you to find it for me and to bring both the database and book by Panayi to our attention, I am sure it will greatly assist many people.
Johann lived in Glasgow, Scotland. Was your ancestor from London? If he had been from Scotland I would have been more than happy to search the Poor Relief Archive for you at the Mitchell Library. There is no online digital source as far as am aware, I believe these records are stored locally across the UK. If you ever do get a chance to search through them, I would greatly encourage you to do so. The inspectors turned over every leaf in their investigations to try and find an excuse not to pay the money, meaning that they are a unique source of inquisitive information that one otherwise might not be able to obtain.
From what I read the first internments took place in September 1914. A prominent Scottish German Arnold Singewald, for instance, was arrested on September 11th 1914 by two police officers outside his home in Craigendoran, found himself in an internment camp in York two days later, was released and then interned again, like many other ‘enemy aliens’, in the aftermath of the flood of Germanophobia unleashed by the sinking of the Lusitania in May 1915. The Sunday Post, a newspaper with a circulation of over a million in Scotland, reproduced graphic stories of survivors from the sinking. The paper claimed that Germans had exposed themselves as a “Nation of Maniacs” with the sinking constituting the “culminating crime of a Hunnish race”. This kind of lurid reporting, complete with pictures of the bodies of the victim, led to protests and riots breaking out all over Britain directed against German owned-shops, business and houses. They were effectively "race riots". In May 1916 a public demonstration was organised by a local committee in the Merchants Hall in Glasgow, where the government was attacked for alleged leniency in allowing Germans to walk freely in the country, a situation described as of “the greatest menace to the safety of the realm”, warning that Scots were not to be “lulled asleep” by people of a foreign “nationality in our midst” who hide behind British names. ::)
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These stories are all so interesting - and full of hyperbole, as you have noted.
My Peter Krein was in London, so I can't make use of your kind offer, alas, but I can imagine authorities were highly motivated to find reasons for disentitlement.
This is what you do to find your man:
On first search page, type in the surname as I have given it (might also work with forename and surname together but I have not tried this); hit "search".
This brings you to an advanced search page. Adjust the settings on this page to nationality German, and Civilian rather than Military. Then hit "validate".
This brings you to a set of documents for people with surnames having the same three first letters, which you can scroll through. They are pretty much in alpha order. As I recall, yours was in order.
If you do not find it in the segment that is displayed, see if it could have been in a preceding or succeeding list alphabetically. (This may have been the case with yours, but I can't recall exactly.) If so, scroll through the list in black on the left side of the screen and find the relevant first few letters (in some cases only the first letter is displayed), and click on that one instead and go through that list. I believe yours was listed simply under "M".
If you still can't find it, send me a PM and I will check again. I didn't save it the first time.
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New resource:
Knockaloe Internment Camp & Patrick Visitor Centre.
This is a recently formed charity which aims to document the experience of being interned at Knockaloe as well as the life stories of those interned. They also want to assist people to understand the experience of their family member during the war and are already doing some of that.
They have some information already online and are looking to add more stories to their archive.
You may wish to add your ancestor's story.
http://knockaloe.im/
For further discussion, see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=968.0 , pages 12 and 13.
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Great thread, I've enjoyed reading it. I went on the link http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en and found my wife's Great Grandfathers records, who was interned in Handforth in Cheshire
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thanks, johnbhoy. I'm glad you are finding it useful.
I should perhaps add some more tips with regards to navigating the ICRC site, in addition to comments 24 May at 15:23, as it is not entirely straightforward, and it took me several attempts to get what I needed.
Once you find the first document for your person, click on the red box for more info about him.
You will then get two boxes, one offering a series of initials, and the other blank for you to fill in.
On the first document, you will likely see some code numbers which begin with some of the letters in the first box. Try to pick one that seems to match; you may need to try more than one.
Again, on your first document, there will be some numbers following the letters. Some may be in Roman numerals. Use the first of these number to put in the second box. If it is in Roman numerals, change it to regular numbers and then use it. Do not use the second number, if there is one.
Hopefully, you will then get a series of new documents. Using the second number (the one you didn't use before), which is a page number, scroll down until you find that number, usually in the upper right of the doc.
Your person should appear on that page.
Note also that there is a glossary on the site which explains the abbreviations used. This is especially useful for deciphering the name of the camp, but also some other things. It is found at http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/Content/help/glossary-en.pdf .
I hope that helps!
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Do the Red Cross have similar records for WW2?
I am searching for am English Merchant Seaman who was a civilian POW!
By the way, I have been corrected re the pronunciation of Knockaloe!
It should be similar to Knock-Aylo (rhymes with halo!)
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I'm sure they do, but it will likely be difficult to get the info.
See https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/icrc-archives/agency-archives-seeking-information.htm
WW2 bibliography is here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=112432.msg490494#msg490494
Please add anything you find out that is useful.
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Hi Loo
Thanks for reply-Richard Constantin Noschke was my g-g uncle-only found out through online refs to his diary. According to my Noschke great uncle[his nephew],my g-g father August Friedrich Max Noschke [known as Max] b. 1867 in Gross Lubolz,Spreewald,Brandenburg State,in then Prussia,was somehow not rounded up in WW1 London,despite being the right age and looking so Prussian that people would shout insults at him...I've seen a family pic of him,even his moustache looked terribly "German"!
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Thanks for ICRC link-yes it is a bit tricky. A few useful pointers on the index cards:
1]abbreviation 'all'=alleman [German]
2] bear in mind that French like being different :)-francophones usually use surnames first,as I just found,wasting my precious Sunday! So enter surname first.
I found my Richard Noschke no.42081 ,in the registers,listed at Sratford 'Stfd' where he was first interned,the index card dated 22.3.18 which would refer to repatriation date as the 2nd and last register entry is marked 'repatriated'. Under home address or birthplace on list 49,pg 1075 "3 Boston Rd,Hatherley Gardens,East Ham,London,E" plus birthplace:"Gross Lubholtz,Preussen". No mention of Alexandra Palace where his diary records that he spent most of his time after being transferred.
ICRC registers contain extensive lists of names,so well worth the search.
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Hi Loo
Have you perhaps found any reference to either Elizabeth or George Behm? Elizabeth was born 11 July 1868 of German nationality and place of birth is listed as Palone?
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Alistair:
I'm glad you were able to find Richard.
Very interesting that not all the details of his journey as an internee were recorded by ICRC. You are in a rare situation because you have other evidence with which to compare, whereas most of us have next to nothing.
Interesting too that the other person was not interned. Many possibilities - did he "disappear" for a while and cut off his moustache? perhaps he was friendly with the local constabulary? had he anglicised his name by then?
I have 2 people in my family tree who were subject to internment, but only one of them was, just like you. The rumour concerning the one who was not interned is that he had no accent (having come to England as an adolescent), had anglicised his forenames, had an acceptable-sounding surname anyway (could have easily been Belgian), and was very well-liked by his neighbours who did not make life difficult for him. The one who WAS interned had come to England well into adulthood (I forget date but would have been perhaps 1900) and would clearly have been identified by his accent, but I have no photos of him.
Is the name "Knox" the name that this family adopted, then? It is always tricky to figure out how the names were reworked, but it was common to do so.
Loo
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braam63:
I have nothing on family Behm, but suggest you search the ICRC records online.
I can confirm that women were indeed interned. It's possibly that women who had come from enemy countries were more likely to be interned or were the only women interned. Technically, all wives, even British-born, were identified with their husbands and lost their citizenship. (Remember that this was before women were allowed to vote.)
I suggest reading Panayi's most recent book for details on the experience. I have not gotten to it yet, but, based on his previous work, expect it to be excellent, perhaps definitive, for now at least.
See post #26 above.
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Tips on navigating the ICRC site can be found on posts 32, 35, and 39 above.
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Thanks Loo.
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Hi Loo
I went through the ICRC records and no reference to George or Elizabeth (Elisabeth) Behm. Any suggestions on how to go forward?
Thanks
Braam
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That's too bad, that you couldn't find them. I assume you followed all the hints above.
Maybe worth another shot a different day - I didn't find my person the first time I tried.
Spelling mistakes are always a possibility. Check through everything that starts with "B", being aware that you are not necessarily looking for "Behm"..
I can only suggest you go over the entries on this thread carefully, and choose the ones that may apply to your situation, and pursue them. The Anglo-German Family History Society, for instance, has culled records from The National Archives, etc., which would otherwise be difficult to access. If you join them, they may be able to help. As far as I know, they will still run a search for you for a small fee after you join.
Archivist at Isle of Man was willing to check their records for me as well, at the time, so you might check there, as I think I mentioned above. A substantial number of internees were sent there.
Do you know if they were repatriated? If so, can you track down anything on the German side, such as distant family members who may have info? I know that's usually difficult, but I accomplished it myself against all reasonable odds with one of my German families, without ever leaving my computer.
If you know where they came from in Germany, see if you can get hold of parish records. Try to learn everything you can about this family, as you never know where your breakthrough will show up. Mine was when I was able to find someone who turned out to be the uncle of the person I was pursuing, through 19th C German online emigration records.
Have you canvassed any other descendants of this couple for info? Were there any other persons in England born Germany with this surname (or the wife's)? I tracked down all of mine, and it turned out they were all closely related, although all descendants had been told otherwise.
If nothing shows up, be patient and don't give up. Sometimes it takes a few years for something to surface. Check the internet every so often. I am guessing you are fairly new at genealogy, as you don't have very many posts, so I hope I am not repeating what you already know..
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You are totally correct - I'm very new at this. I'm writing an informal book about my parents (I'm extremely proud of them) and pass on any snippets of information to them. They love it! They actually have very little info about that part of the family and I've able to get some. I'll be seeing them pretty soon (next month) so want to take all this to them. Thank you very much for your help and encouragement - greatly appreciated.
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Additions to Bibliography:
Dewey, Peter. Farm labour in wartime: the relationship between agricultural labour supply and food production in Great Britain during 1914-1918, with international comparisons, University of Reading, 1978. (internees were sometimes employed as farm labourers.)
United States Foreign Office (ed.). Correspondence between His Majesty's government and the United States ambassador respecting the treatment of German prisoners of war and interned civilians in the United Kingdom, London: H.M. Stationery Office, 1915.
United States Legation (Great Britain) (ed.). Reports of visits of inspection made by officials of the United States Embassy to various internment camps in the United Kingdom. London: H.M. Stationary Office, 1916.
Paterson, Sarah. Tracing Your Prisoner of War Ancestors: The First World War, a Guide for Family Historians. Barnsley, South Yorkshire: Pen & Sword, in association with the Imperial War Museum, 2012. The author has worked at the Imperial War Museum for some time. This book covers both military and civilian internees. See especially chapter 10 and Appendices. Appendix 8 contains a 23-page list of known internment camps in the UK, although details are very sparse. These named camps may have held military and/or civilian internees.
Includes a few references and/or quotes in relation to specific internees:
Mustafa Mehmed (letter),
George Kenner (ID card with photo, plus a lot of other info),
Julius Bloom,
Harry Hermes,
Benj Cseh,
Carl Hans Stielow.
Some highlights from Paterson's book:
The Times, 17 Jan 1919, page not stated: a list of 259 persons who had been exempted from repatriation or internment. I presume, but am not sure, that, at this late date in the war, they had probably been previously interned and were only now being exempted after due process and investigation.
Barry Chinchen. "Aliens, Internees and Prisoners of War in the UK, 1914-1920". This is a folder containing copies of relevant material. I believe it is held at IWM, but not sure.
Society of Friends library - presumably in London - appears to have numerous archival items.
British Red Cross Archives - presumably in London; different holdings than ICRC.
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Additional item, apparently only in German:
Migranten und Internierte: Deutsche in Glasgow, 1864-1918. by Stefan Manz. (Wiesbaden: Franz Steiner, c2003.) 317p., ill., tables, charts.
This is based on the author's PhD thesis of the same name, University of Durham, 2002.
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Thanks for the further info, Loo. I've not got any further info yet, however am pursuing via another route (German). I'm holding thumbs. ..
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Nice new blog about Alexandra Palace internment camp posted by Mareike Barnusch.
Includes several specific names, images of documents, references to other archival sources, and gives you an idea of what exactly is in FO 383.
http://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/life-alexandra-palace-internment-camp/
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The following deal with some interned in Canada. They were likely Canadian residents, but maybe not all of them. At the very least, it will provide a point of comparison.
No free man: Canada, the Great War, and the enemy alien experience.
by Kordan, Bohdan S. Montreal: McGill-Queen's University Press, 2016. 416p.
Enemy aliens, prisoners of war: internment in Canada during the Great War.
by Kordan, Bohdan S. Montreal: McGill-Queen's University Press, 2002. 202p.
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New book forthcoming looks very interesting:
Enemies in the Empire: Civilian Internment in the British Empire during the First World War, by Stefan Manz and Panikos Panayi. Oxford University Press, February 2020. 384p.
Abstract:
During the First World War, Britain was the epicentre of global mass internment and deportation operations. Germans, Austro-Hungarians, Turks, and Bulgarians who had settled in Britain and its overseas territories were deemed to be a potential danger to the realm through their ties with the Central Powers and were classified as 'enemy aliens'. A complex set of wartime legislation imposed limitations on their freedom of movement, expression, and property possession. Approximately 50,000 men and some women experienced the most drastic step of enemy alien control, namely internment behind barbed wire, in many cases for the whole duration of the war and thousands of miles away from the place of arrest.
Enemies in the Empire is the first study to analyse British internment operations against civilian 'enemies' during the First World War from an imperial perspective. The narrative takes a three-pronged approach. In addition to a global examination, the volume demonstrates how internment operated on a (proto-) national scale within the three selected case studies of the metropole (Britain), a white dominion (South Africa), and a colony under direct rule (India). Stefan Manz and Panikos Panayi then bring their study to the local level by concentrating on the three camps Knockaloe (Britain), Fort Napier (South Africa), and Ahmednagar (India), allowing for detailed analyses of personal experiences. Although conditions were generally humane, in some cases, suffering occurred. The study argues that the British Empire played a key role in developing civilian internment as a central element of warfare and national security on a global scale.
Link to book: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/enemies-in-the-empire-9780198850151?q=useful%20enemies&lang=en&cc=gb#
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A growing number of documents relating to the two IoM Camps - Douglas and Knockaloe can be found on my website www.manxnotebook.com/history/intrn_ww1/index.htm including a full translation of Die Männerinsel (Island of Men) - fascinating read.
I've also been trawling thru the ICRC records as well as the FO 383 files at Kew + other records held at Manx Museum to put together as complete a list of those interned at Knockaloe together with camp number (which gives arrival date and usually the camp, compound and hut they were in - catch is I estimate around 30,000 names which is somewhat too large for my site - so far I have some 12000 names with camp number and probably some 1500 names but without camp numbers as they left the camp prior to camp numbers (as opposed to PoW Information Bureau serial numbers) being included in ICRC records.
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This book is not UK per se, but could possibly include info on internees shipped off to Canada or provide wider context. As it hasn't actually come out yet, I haven't seen it.
Civilian Internment In Canada: Histories And Legacies, by Rhonda L. Hinther and Jim Mochoruk. 424 p. Published February 28, 2020 by the University of Manitoba Press.
ISBN - 10:0887558453
ISBN - 13:9780887558450
Exploring the connections, contrasts, and continuities across the broad range of civilian internments in Canada, this collection seeks to begin a conversation about the laws and procedures that allow the state to criminalize and deny the basic civil liberties of some of its most vulnerable citizens.
It brings together multiple perspectives on the varied internment experiences of Canadians and others from the days of World War One to the present. This volume offers a unique blend of personal memoirs of “survivors” and their descendants, alongside the work of community activists, public historians, and scholars, all of whom raise questions about how and why in Canada basic civil liberties have been (and, in some cases, continue to be) denied to certain groups in times of perceived national crises.
Rhonda L. Hinther is an Associate Professor of History at Brandon University and an active public historian. Prior to joining BU, Hinther served as Director of Research and Curation at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights and, before that, as Curator of Western Canadian History at the Canadian Museum of History. Her most recent book, a 2019 Wilson Prize Finalist, is entitled Perogies and Politics: Canada’s Ukrainian Left, 1891-1991 (2018).
Jim Mochoruk has taught at the University of North Dakota since 1993. His books include The People’s Co-op: The Life and Times of a North End Institution (2000) and “Formidable Heritage:” Manitoba’s North and the Cost of Development, 1870 to 1930 (2004). Originally from Winnipeg, Jim is currently working on a book-length study concerning the social and economic history of Winnipeg—and its many real and imagined communities—in the inter-war period.
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I just noticed another book on similar theme to my last post.
Park prisoners : the untold story of Western Canada's national parks, 1915-1946,, by Waiser, W. A.
Saskatoon : Fifth House Publishers, c1995. 294 pages, illustrations.
I read a review which said that the book covers the lives of "enemy aliens" including Germans who were put to work at building roads, trails and campgrounds in Canada's national parks during WW1 and 2. It was essentially forced labour, and they were made to live in the parks where they worked. Gives details about how they got there and what they did; many aaecdotes. i have not seen it.