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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: USA Lass on Saturday 17 December 05 16:01 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for my great great grandfather, JOHN GRANT. I have copies of his marraige record (he was married January 15, 1859 in Kincardine O'Neil, Aberdeenshire to Elizabeth Smith -- b. ca 1838 in Kincardine O' Neil) and his death record(he died in Aberdeen January 25 1907).
In both sources, John is born in Mortlach, Banff. (approx. 1831 or 1832) and his parents are given as PETER GRANT (deceased) and ANN McPHERSON (deceased). Peter was listed as a blacksmith on the marriage record. I have found no record of his birth (there are several John Grants born at that time but to different sets of parents -- Peter and someone else, or Ann and someone else, but not to both Peter and Ann).
I would appreciate any help on this. Its been my brick wall for a long time.
Thanks.
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Hi
I will check this out for you next week as I can get access to the micro film.
Heather
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Hi USA Lass,
I feel that the Christening of your John Grant, may never be found.
I have found a Marriage of Peter Grant to Ann McPherson 19/2/1819 Cabrach Banff or Ab......
There are 2 Christenings that I could find. James and Elizabeth.
NB......Cabrach is 7.8 miles from Mortlach.. so this is very close..
When I searched for the family in 1841Census, I found Peter Grant, Blacksmith. and guess where he lived ..........Cabrach...
So I feel this is your Peter, minus, his wife.....sadly. and also minus John. ( John may be already at work on a farm.)
It seems this Peter has died by, 1851c. So it all fits.
So I would hire the OPR's for Cabrach, and see what else you can learn....
1841 Census
Cabrach-Aberdeenshire
Cabrach-Banffshire
Address: Alluie
GRANT Peter M 45 Blacksmith Aberdeenshire (Originally: Banffshire )
GRANT Elizabeth F 20 Aberdeenshire (Originally: Banffshire )
GRANT Jean F 11 Aberdeenshire (Originally: Banffshire )
Regards,
joanne :D :D :D
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Hi Joanne,
That certainly sounds like my family. Would an 8 or 9 year old be "Farmed out" to another family at that age at that time? If Jean is older than John, maybe Ann died while having him (just a thought).
Do you know if there would be death records in the OPR for Ann and Peter? I plan of going on ScotlandsPeople soon (after Christmas), but can't remember if the OPR's had death records (I last was at the GRO in Edinburgh 5 years ago).
Thanks so much for your help ( I see that the "wall" has cracks in it now).
Happy Holidays!
Sincerely,
Lara
;D :) ;D
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Have you come across a Margaret Grant b. 19 July 1789 married Peter Scott? I would love to take my family up one generation. Thanks Izabel
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Hi USA Lass,
By all means search on Scotlandspeople, for your OPR's, but, don't order anything, (before 1855), it is too expensive, when you can see the same thing on the parish films, when ordered from your closest Mormons' Family History Centre. $5.00 per film.
It is very doubtful, that you will find deaths before 1855.
but, sometimes they are there. You may have to try for Monumental Inscriptions, or when Scotlandspeople, have Kirk sessions.
Merry Christmas.
from Jo :D
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Just a comment Lara
In 1855 boys could indeed be 'farmed out' but not meaning it your way! They could be fee'd to a farmer as an agricultural servant as it is euphemistically called on the census. For this magnanimous gesture they would be up , sometimes before dawn to help harness the horse, clean out the stable eat whatever they were offered for breakfast, help with the milking drive sheep to pasture, labour in the fields all day. ........Seven days a week at 9 or 10 years old!!!
If they were lucky they ate in the farm house where it was warm; if not, they ate in cold loft accommodation above the stable or shed or in a 'bothy' on the far side of the farm yard. If they wanted a fire they had to collect their own kindling or buy coal.
By 12 or 14 they might even get some money for their labours.
In the 1940's when a farmer employed an itinerant, casual labourer he expected the family to join in the effort - after all he was providing them with lodgings and sometimes food as well!!!!!
I still remember the poor wee waifs who joined my Primary school class for a week or two - and they were the lucky ones whose parents thought education was worth it!
Russell
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Hi USA Lass
If your family came from Carbach that would explain why I can't find John In Mortlach. I will look for his birth in Carbach for you.
Heather
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Hi Russell, and Heather, 8)
Russell, .....I love hearing from knowlegeable people,...able to make history real. I know this and that...... but, to be able to feel what they went through, takes the right words.
Thanks.
Heather,
Are you able to check Deaths and Mounumental Inscriptions, for Cabrach?
Jo :)
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Hi US LASS,
I to am related to the Grants of Banffshire.
Not sure if it would be the same tree as yours.
My link is one of a maternal one.
Ann Grant (b. 1834 Cullen, Banffshire d. 1909 Lands End, Fifeshire) married William Smart (b. Dec. 9/1823 Collessie Fifeshire d. 1907 Falkland, Fireshire).
If Ann is related to you, please feel free to look at my family tree on Ancestry. I have linked approximately 2400 people thus far.
Family tree is listed under JoeMel99.
Hope this is of some use to you.
One of my weak links is the Grant family, I have yet to find Ann's father and mother nor any of their ancestors.
Joe
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Not specifically on your subject but there was a Paul and Sylvester Grant from Mortlach on board "Christian McAusland' from Gravesend Sep 1872, arrived Otago, New Zealand 5 Dec 1872. I know they were from Mortlach area as they were known to the McKay family on the same ship and are mentioned in McKay letters home to their family at Inveravon, Mortlach. Thought you may wish to keep them in mind for future roadblocks.
Rgds
francoso
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Hello there,
I am also interested in Grants from Banffshire. I know it is a very well known name in this area. William Grant was one of several children born to John Grant and Annie Wilson. He was born in 1885 in Fordyce but emigrated to Canada where he married Janet Beveridge Groebert in 1918. They had a son, William. In the 1901 Scotland Census he seems to be a Farm servant in Turriff. I have been unable to find a marriage record of John to Annie. If anyone has any connection to this family I would love to hear from you.
Susan
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William Grant was one of several children born to John Grant and Annie Wilson .... He was born in 1885 in Fordyce .... I have been unable to find a marriage record of John to Annie.
Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and invest in a few credits at modest cost. Then use some of them to get William's birth certificate. It will tell you the date and place of his parents' marriage.
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Thanks for the advice, Forfarian. I did look on Scotlands People and got the marriage date I was looking for. Why did I not do that before? Bleary eyed and muddle-headed no doubt! Anyway, I am grateful, so many thanks again.
Susan
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I am researching my great great granny Jean Beattie's side born 1863 whose mother was Jean Grant born 1840 to Peter Grant (1817) and Elspet Dow.
I have Peter's dad Peter who was born in 1795, and resided in the Cabrach, Bridgend seems to ring a bell, where he was a blacksmith,
If I am right his blacksmith shop was handed down to his Great Granddaughter Jean Beattie, who married William Harper, who was also a blacksmith.
I am trying to find out where Peter Grant ( 1795) was born as I have been on Genealogy of the Cabrach, and just gives Aberdeenshire and not who his parents are either.
If there is anyone on this page shed any light it would be great.
I also have other family members who were born and lived in the Cabrach, Glass areas: Thomson's, Milne's, :)
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According to the International Genealogical Index (IGI) at www.familysearch.org there were two couples named Peter Grant and Elspet Dow. One couple were married on 25 November 1824 in Knockando, Moray and the other on 21 February 1837 In Cabrach.
There were ten children of these two couples
First, both born in Knockando
Margaret, born 30 September 1825
Jane, born 19 May 1827
They almost certainly have nothing to do with yours.
Second, all born in Cabrach
Elspet, born 10 June 1837
Jean, born 6 December 1840
Alexander, born 3 February 1846
Isabella, born 19 April 1850
Margaret, born 19 January 1852
Janet, born 24 June 1855
Barbara, born 2 September 1858
Peter, born 23 April 1861
The 1841 census lists at Burntreble, Cabrach Peter Mitchell, 70; Peter Grant, 20; Elspet Grant, 20; Elspet Grant, 4; Jean Grant, 6 months.
At Alluie in 1841 are Peter Grant, 45, blacksmith; Elizabeth Grant, 20; and Jean Grant, 11. The original census records that they were all born in Cabrach, Banffshire, but the transcription at http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl has changed that to Cabrach, Aberdeenshire.
In 1851, at Ardwell, Cabrach are Elspet Grant, 35; daughter Elspet, 13; and daughter Isobel, 11 months. Presumably Peter was working away from home, but I can't find him in the FreeCEN transcription. At Rhinturk, Cabrach are Alexander Dow, 83; his daughter Isobel, 23; his granddaughter Jean, 10; and grandson Alexander, 5, all born in Cabrach, Banffshire.
In 1861, at Rhinturk are Peter Grant, 44; wife Elspet, 45; daughters Elspet, 23; Margaret, 9; Janet, 5 and Barbara, 2. All born in Cabrach Banffshire.
In 1871 at Ballochford are Peter Grant, 54; wife Elspet, 55; daughters Elspet, 33; Isabelle, 20; Jannet, 15; Barbra, 12 and son Peter 9. Again, all born Cabrach, Banffshire
In 1881 Peter Grant, 64; wife Elspet, 65; daughter Elspet, 43 and Jessie, 25; and son Peter, 19; were at Burnside. Again, all born Cabrach, Banffshire. (Jessie is synonymous with Jan(n)et).
So it is reasonable to suppose that Peter was born in 1816 or early in 1817, and Elspet in 1815 or early 1816. It also seems reasonable to suppose that they were all born in the part of the parish that belongs to Banffshire.
As they both lived well past 1855, there will be death certificates for both at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, where you can also view the originals of the above census transcriptions. You should also look at the birth certificate of Janet because 1855 certificates contain a lot of information not recorded in other years. The death certificates will tell you the full names of both sets of parents, including their mothers' maiden surnames, and you can use this to search for baptisms in the IGI and then check the originals at Scotland's People.
However don't believe everything you find in the IGI; the 'community indexed' listings are fairly safe but the 'community indexed' listings can be misleading. Use the IGi as a very useful pointer for finding the original records, but don't rely on it being correct all the time.
Now, to Peter senior. His age in the census is listed as 45. Ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so he could in fact have been anything from 45 to 49, which, if it is accurate, would mean he was born between 1791 and 1796. There are a few Peter Grants born in Banffshire and Aberdeenshire between these dates, but none in Cabrach, so either he was born in a different parish or his baptism is not in the available records.
I can't see him in the 1851 census, which suggests that he probably died between the 1841 and 1851 censuses, so there won't be a death certificate, as these did not exist until 1855. I don't know the Genealogy of the Cabrach site, but I presume that the reason it just says 'Aberdeenshire' is because his actual birthplace is unknown.
I see that Peter Grant and Ann McPherson had two recorded children, both born in Cabrach, Aberdeenshire
James, born 25 July 1819
Elizabeth, born 11 May 1821
So perhaps this is the 20-year-old Elizabeth listed at Rhinturk in 1841. The death certificate of Peter Jr will clarify this.
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Thank you
Forfarian for the info it is very helpful, the second Grant's born in Cabrach are my ancestors, I have found Jean Grant's marriage certificate to William Beattie in 1859 and it has her parents name on as Peter Grant and Elspet Grant (nee Dow) of Ballochford.
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Glad it's useful. Jut remember that all of it is from indexes and transcriptions. You should plan to verify it all by looking at the original documents, all of which are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - it's pay-per-view, but very reasonably priced.
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Forfarian.
Thank you again, I am a member of Scotlandspeople, but as you said before there are quite a few Grants, but with the help you gave yesterday I managed to trace the right ones.
It is like when you have to search for certain names (like Jean, which could be put down as Jane) but as my aunt says you just have to think outside the box sometimes.
She has this problem when she is searching the other side of our family.