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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: gill on Thursday 05 January 06 12:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am researching the Neilson family in Paisley.
Info I have is as follows............
Duncan Neilson , age 25, resided at 13 Canal Street, Paisley, parents Thomas Neilson ans Christina McMillan (deceased)
married
Ann Baillie , age 23, resided at 4 Barr Street, Paisley, parents John Baillie, stone mason journeyman, (dec) and Margaret stewart (dec)
The marraige took place in Low Curch, Paisley on 24 June 1857.
children of marraige were Thomas b.1857, William b. 1859. John b. 1862, DUNCAN b.1865 Thomas b. 1868 Christina b. 1868 (twins), Robert b. 1871.......posiibly with a twin Ann, but have no confirmation of this. All births were in Paisley.
At the time of son DUNCANs birth on 13 Jan 1865 the family resided at 6 Carlile Place, Paisley.
On 1881 census the family are living at 142 George Street, Paisley, (high church), with children........William, 21, stonemason. John, 18, lath splitter, DUNCAN, 16, carter, Ann, 7, Robert age 5.
Can anyone locate them on the 1861 or 1871 census?
Duncan Neilson (junior) married on 18 June 1886 at 18 Moss street, Paisley.........at this time he resided at 1 Mill Street, Paisley
his wife was Mary McFee, age 21, resided at 3 Doversland, Paisley, she was a threadmill worker. her parents were Donald McPhee, railway porter (dec) and Janet McPhail.
Their son JOHN was born on 30 July 1896 at 11 Carwood street, Greenock...........
Can anyone llocate this family on the 1891 census either in Paisley or Greenock.
On 1901 census the family are living at 7 Clyde Street, Port Glasgow with children Janet 19, machinist, b. Paisley, Duncan 14, b. Paisley, Robert, 13 b. paisley, Grace,6, b. Greenock, William, 6, b.Greenock, JOHN, 4, b. Greenock, Alexander, 3 , b. Greenock
John Neilson married Margaret Spence on 27 Dec 1929.
thanks in advance for any information offered.
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Hi, My name is Jennifer and I'm researching the same family.
my great grandmother was Grace Neilson in the list below (parents Mary McPhee, sometimes indexed as McFee and Duncan Neilson). I do have some information that you may not have (I have a few of the census records that i think are the people in this line), but it is complicated because the names seem to change frequently between records, and there are lots of brick walls. Some are as follows:
1. I cannot find Duncan Neilson (born abt. 1832/1833) with parents Thomas Neilson & Christina McMillan in Paisley prior to his marriage to Ann Baillie in 1857 (I assume you have this record). I cannot find any record related to Thomas, Christina or Duncan before the marriage record.
Strangely, there is only 1 Duncan Neilson in the census in all of Scotland in that time period of 1830 to 1857 (via Scotland's People); his parents are Robert Neilson and Jean McNab, he was born in 1835, he is in the 1841 and 1851 census' with his parents, and he married Elizabeth Robertson in 1861.
2. In 1861, our Duncan finally appears in a census, with wife Ann. They are indexed under Nelson, not Neilson though. They are residing at 15 Canal Street Paisley with the following: Margaret Nelson age 6, William Nelson age 1, and (sister in law) Margaret Baillie, age 15. You can find this on ancestry and I also have downloaded the paper copy.
3. In 1871, the family was at 37 Back Sneddon Middle Parish Paisley as: Duncan (38), shawl weaver; Ann (36); Margaret (16); William (11); John (9); and Duncan (6). I have this paper record. There are also records for 1901 census (with youngest child Robert, age 25), but I can't find them in 1891.
4. As for Duncan (Jr), I have found some of the same information as you. He married on Mary McPhee on 18 June 1886 who resided at 3 Doversland, Paisley, she was a threadmill worker. her parents were Donald McPhee, railway porter (dec) and Janet McPhail. I think McPhee is the correct spelling based on the parents' names and other records (My great aunt, daughter of Grace Neilson, was named Mary McPhee Stewart).
5. Now here is another one of my brick walls. I have not been able to find any record of the birth of Mary McPhee (or McFee) in the general time frame and location that the census records suggest. And, I cannot find any marriage record for Donald McPhee (or McFee) and Janet McPhail.
6. However, I do find a record for the illegitimate birth of a Mary McPhail to a Janet McPhail (bleachfield worker) in Paisley on May 3 1865 (she was a twin, sister was Janet; the twin Janet died in 1866).
7. I also find Janet McFail (bleachfield worker) in 1871 census on High Street, Middle Paisley, with a daughter, Mary McPhee age 6. And, I find Janet McPhail (bleacher worker) and Mary McFee age 16 (threadmill worker) at 1 Dovesland in Paisley in 1881 census. So if this is them (which I'm fairly sure it is), where is Donald McPhee?
8. I also have found the census for Duncan and Mary in 1891 on ancestry. Here are the details. I have the 1901 and 1911 census' as well.
Duncan Neilson
Age 26
Estimated Birth Year abt 1865
Relationship Head
Spouse's Name Mary Neilson
Where born Paisley, Renfrewshire
Registration district Paisley
Civil parish Paisley Low Church
County Renfrewshire
Address 86, Canal St
Household Members
Duncan Neilson 26
Mary Neilson 25
Janet Neilson 7
Duncan Neilson 4
Robert Neilson 2
My great grandmother as I mentioned earlier was Grace Neilson. She married Murray Stewart in Port Glasgow in 1912. Their children were Isabella Anderson Stewart (b. 1912, my grandmother), Mary McPhee Stewart (b. 1916), and John Stewart (b. 1921). All were born in Port Glasgow. Isabella emigrated to the US in early 1930's. Mary ultimately emigrated in 1950 and John emigrated to South Africa...unsure of the year but it was prior to 1946.
It would be great to correspond off of this post if possible. You are the first possible descendant of this line in my tree that I've come across.
Jennifer
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Just downloaded John Neilson marriage to Margaret Spence on 27 Dec 1929...My grandmother, Isabella Stewart is listed as one of the witnesses!!!
I'd love to chat with you! I hope you get this :)
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Hi Jennifer , welcome to RootsChat :)
Gill was last on here in January this year and will hopefully receive a notification of your post.
As per RC policy I've removed your email address , please use the Personal Message(PM) system which should work if you reply to this post -
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
ev
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Thanks EV! I've been researching multiple family lines and have only found 1 other possible relative (completely different family line), so finding someone on my Scottish line is extremely exciting. I hope Gill and I are able to connect :)
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Hi Jen,
I originally posted my query almost 11 years ago.
I have researched the family extensively in the years in between, and have a quite lot of information.
The marriage certificate you said you have just downloaded for Margaret Spence and John Neilson, were my partners grandparents.
I have pretty much all of the Neilson certificate, and also photos of the graves also as my mother in law is buried with them (her parents), also Duncan Neilson and Mary McPhee are buried opposite them.
Janet McPhail and Donald McPhee were not married. Janet was in the poorhouse in Paisley when the twins were born, and I got a copy of the notes from the Poor house years ago. From memory, the notes state that he hailed from Invernesshire...I will need to look the notes out, and get back to you on that. They give a bit of information about Donald and Mary, but basically he deserted her.
Their daughter, Janet (the twin), is buried in Woodside Cemetery in Paisley.
I have collected a fair bit of information on Murray Stewart also, his family came from Kirkden in Forfar.
Ill get back to you later tonight when I have more time.
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Hi Jennifer , welcome to RootsChat :)
Gill was last on here in January this year and will hopefully receive a notification of your post.
As per RC policy I've removed your email address , please use the Personal Message(PM) system which should work if you reply to this post -
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
ev
I have kept the same email all these years, as its the one I use specifically for family research, and do pop back onto all the genealogy sites every now and again as so much more information has become available in the years in between :)
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Thanks Gill,
I hadn't expected such a quick reply, since I knew the post was old! I wish I'd come across it earlier since it seems I've replicated some of it. I'd love to get the info you have but don't feel any rush. I'm just happy to know there is someone out there with more info than I have and find an actual connection to someone that is related to me and my family. I've also PM'd you. :)
Jen
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Hi Jen,
I was quite lucky in that my mother in law had all the copies of the original certificates for her grandparents and great grandparents.
I'm happy to share what information I do have, if you want to private mail me your email.
If there are any specific certificates you need, let me know which ones, as I have pretty much all of them.
Ive not got much time at the moment, but will get back to you tonight
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"I have pretty much all of the Neilson certificate, and also photos of the graves also as my mother in law is buried with them (her parents), also Duncan Neilson and Mary McPhee are buried opposite them."
I would love the photos of the graves!
"Janet McPhail and Donald McPhee were not married. Janet was in the poorhouse in Paisley when the twins were born, and I got a copy of the notes from the Poor house years ago. From memory, the notes state that he hailed from Invernesshire..."
The 1871 census I have for Janet McPhail notes that she's from Inverness, so that fits
"I have collected a fair bit of information on Murray Stewart also, his family came from Kirkden in Forfar."
I have a bit on Murray Stewart also, but would love to cross reference with what you have
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would love copies of the graves for Duncan Neilson & Mary McPhee if you're able to find them! As well, also any info on Janet McPhail and Donald McPhee!
8)
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Was wondering if anyone has found Donald McPhee in any records? I think I may have found in some census records, as he is the only railway worker from Inverness with that name. However, Mary McPhee/Duncan Neilson marriage record indicates he's deceased, but the Donald I found, as I've traced him forward, died well after the date of their marriage.
I was also wondering if anyone has been able to trace the birth of Duncan Sr (b. abt. 1833) and/or has any information on his parents Thomas Neilson and Christina McMillan? I can't find anything on this Duncan prior to his marriage record to Ann Baillie in 1857 (the address there looks like 13 Canal street, but it could be 15).
However...I did find something interesting on Ancestry today, searching for Thomas as a weaver (the record for Duncan's marriage listed him as a harness weaver). I did not find him as a harness weaver, but did find a Thomas Neilson who was a weaver, living in Paisley in 1851. His wife was listed as Mary (not Christina). This record was indexed on ancestry (the SP record that I've downloaded is unreadable) with the following children: Dullen (age 20), Lyall (18), Mary (15) and Elisabeth (12). Their address is: 15 CANAL STREET. So, I think this could be them!
Hoping anyone has information that could potentially confirm this.
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Hi
I have a couple of 'artefacts' created in 1902 by some Neilsons from Paisley - Thomas and D.H. Neilson. I have no other information about these Neilsons, except that they were friends of my grandmother, Elizabeth Kerr. If the names/initials sound familiar, I'm happy to share their creations with you.
Bit of a shot in the dark, but you never know.
Eddie
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Hi Eidde,
I don't recognize a D.H. Neilson though I do have several Duncan's, none of them had middle names or initials as far as I know. There is a Thomas Neilson that I can't pin down past 1851 (he would have been born around 1807 as he was 44 on the census. His wife was listed as Mary). His son Duncan (b. Abt. 1833; though I can't find a birth record even though he supposedly was born in Paisley) married in 1857 and he appears to be still alive here, although his mother is listed as Christina and is listed as deceased (she is also listed as his mother on his death record). It's possible that Mary is a second wife.
The other Thomas I have in my tree is born in 1888. He is the son of William Neilson (b. 1859) who is the son of the Duncan above. William married Grace McCormick as far as I can tell. Any chance that Thomas fits?
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What I have is a copy of an album in which my grandmother's friends and relatives drew pictures and wrote poems and dedications. The Neilsons contributed two poems with some sketches and I suspect, from the tone of them, that they were about her own age. So, I think I have identified them from the censuses as:
Thomas Neilson b.1876, who became a minister in the United Free Church;
Duncan H Neilson, b. 1886, who was a Divinity student in 1911.
Their father, Thomas, was a joiner, married to Janet.
There was also a sister, Barbara H, a school teacher, b. 1878.
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Hmm. I'll have to look more closely. It could fit. Or could just be different families...
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Hi Gill,
Hoping you pop back on here (I've also sent you a PM). My cousin is in Port Glasgow area now doing some family history searching and meeting with extended family. Would love to see the cemetery where Duncan Neilson and Mary McPhee are buried. Could you pass along the name?
thanks
Jennifer
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Hi there
just seen this regarding John Neilson and Margaret Spence married in 1929 - these might be my grandparents on my dad's side. They lived between Paisley and Renfrew up until my grandfathers death in 1972
if it is John Reid Neilson married to Margaret Spence (who should have Irish family - MacPherson - as my dad used to visit them) we could be onto something.
I hope that helps
another John Neilson
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Hiya,
Unfortunately there isn’t a connection.
John Neilson didn’t have a middle name. I've got his original birth/marriage/death certs, as well as all the original insurance policy documents he had over the years, and none give a middle name.
They lived all their married life in Port Glasgow. Margaret Spence died in 1946, and her husband, John Neilson died in 1957, so its not possible that this couple would have been your grandparents, as you mention your grandfather died in 1972.
Gillian
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I was also wondering if anyone has been able to trace the birth of Duncan Sr (b. abt. 1833) and/or has any information on his parents Thomas Neilson and Christina McMillan? I can't find anything on this Duncan prior to his marriage record to Ann Baillie in 1857 (the address there looks like 13 Canal street, but it could be 15).
However...I did find something interesting on Ancestry today, Thomas Neilson who was a weaver, living in Paisley in 1851. His wife was listed as Mary (not Christina). This record was indexed on ancestry (the SP record that I've downloaded is unreadable) with the following children: Dullen (age 20), Lyall (18), Mary (15) and Elisabeth (12). Their address is: 15 CANAL STREET. So, I think this could be them!
I don't think ? this is the family as the index on SP has them listed as;
Thomas 43
Margaret 40
Hellen 20
Lyall 18
Margaret 15
Elizabeth 12
Annie
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Hi John,
wonderful to hear from you! I don't have a middle name for the John Neilson in my tree. Though that doesn't always mean anything. I have his birth and marriage certificates with no middle name listed. However, I could find only 1 marriage between a John Neilson and a Margaret Spence in Scotland from 1915 to 1940. So I think there's a good chance its the same couple. the John in my tree was born 13 July 1896. His parents were Duncan Neilson & Mary McPhee. regardless would love to exchange more details :)
will PM you my email addres
best,
Jen
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Rosinish,
I'm confused. What is it you don't think?
Thomas Neilson (b.1804) was married twice. First wife was Christina McNab, second wife was Mary Stewart
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Hi Jen,
John said that John Neilson and Margaret Spence were his grandparents on his dads side, and that they lived between Paisley and Renfrew up until his grandfathers death in 1972.
That's not possible. John and Margaret lived all their married life in Port Glasgow. Margaret Spence died in 1946, and her husband, John Neilson died in 1957. They were my hubbys grandparents.
Their son John died in infancy in 1933. Their only other son, Billy, has one son himself, not called John though.
Hope you are keeping well Jen.
Gillian
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Rosinish,
I'm confused. What is it you don't think?
Thomas Neilson (b.1804) was married twice. First wife was Christina McNab, second wife was Mary Stewart
I thought you were thinking 'Dullen (age 20)' on the 1851 census was Duncan rather than Hellen?
Annie
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Hi Jen,
John said that John Neilson and Margaret Spence were his grandparents on his dads side, and that they lived between Paisley and Renfrew up until his grandfathers death in 1972.
That's not possible. John and Margaret lived all their married life in Port Glasgow. Margaret Spence died in 1946, and her husband, John Neilson died in 1957. They were my hubbys grandparents.
Their son John died in infancy in 1933. Their only other son, Billy, has one son himself, not called John though.
Hi Gill...hope you are well too! I agree. definitely not the same couple! I do find some John Reid Neilson's, but none married to a Spence, though there is a John Neilson married to a Annabella Spence in 1924 in St. Andrew (Edinburgh) --(this is the only other Neilson/Spence marriage between 1900 and 2007!). so...there must be some mix-up with names. would love to pin down John's grandparents and see if they are part of the extended tree somehow though
Hope you are keeping well Jen.
Gillian
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I was also wondering if anyone has been able to trace the birth of Duncan Sr (b. abt. 1833) and/or has any information on his parents Thomas Neilson and Christina McMillan? I can't find anything on this Duncan prior to his marriage record to Ann Baillie in 1857 (the address there looks like 13 Canal street, but it could be 15).
However...I did find something interesting on Ancestry today, Thomas Neilson who was a weaver, living in Paisley in 1851. His wife was listed as Mary (not Christina). This record was indexed on ancestry (the SP record that I've downloaded is unreadable) with the following children: Dullen (age 20), Lyall (18), Mary (15) and Elisabeth (12). Their address is: 15 CANAL STREET. So, I think this could be them!
I don't think ? this is the family as the index on SP has them listed as;
Thomas 43
Margaret 40
Hellen 20
Lyall 18
Margaret 15
Elizabeth 12
Annie
Hi Annie,
I've purchased that census record from SP and the indexing is definitely incorrect. It was barely legible so I requested a clearer copy. It is Mary not Margaret, and it is clearly a name starting with a "D" not "H" and that entry is listed as a son, so it is not Helen. I have found marriage between Thomas and Mary Stewart (1844), and traced Mary backward to 1841 census where she is listed as a winder, living on Canal Street with 3 daughters.
Mary Stewart
Isbell Rae
Maryan Rae
Elisabeth Rae
I then tried to trace the daughters' marriages, finding Isabella Rae marrying in 1855 to John Hathorn/Hawthorne. Mother is Mary Rae (M.S. Stewart), living at 15 Canal street, witnessed by Duncan Neilson & Mary Neilson (her step-brother and sister in law).
Happy to share these records with you if you'd like. Interested in your connection to the family :)
Jen
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Hi Gillian, Jen
I think you are right - definitely not the same couple - I had a chat with my Aunt - (on my mum's side) who has a better memory for this than I have.
John Reid Neilson (my grandfather) was born in Renfrew 1901 and married Margaret MacPherson some time between the wars. My dad (another John Reid Neilson) was born just before the second world war. Grandfather was one of three Robert, Jean and John - I don't know their parents names unfortunately and Grandmother was from Irish stock.
so I was definitely barking up the wrong tree - but just how many Johns and Margarets could be couples?
thanks to both of you
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Hi Jen,
Good you have the original 1851 as SP & Anc. had 2 different names i.e. Hellen/Dullen.
This in itself is always a problem!
So, the question still remains do you think this is supposed to be Duncan as you haven't said?
Is it possible to post a snip to see if anyone can read it please?
Annie
Add, Sorry, in reply to "Interested in your connection to the family", no connection just interested in the topic & trying to help.
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Hi Gillian, Jen
I think you are right - definitely not the same couple - I had a chat with my Aunt - (on my mum's side) who has a better memory for this than I have.
John Reid Neilson (my grandfather) was born in Renfrew 1901 and married Margaret MacPherson some time between the wars. My dad (another John Reid Neilson) was born just before the second world war. Grandfather was one of three Robert, Jean and John - I don't know their parents names unfortunately and Grandmother was from Irish stock.
so I was definitely barking up the wrong tree - but just how many Johns and Margarets could be couples?
thanks to both of you
Hi John,
thanks for that info! Both Gill and I are researching the extended family tree of the Neilson family. If it turns out that we're connected more remotely, I'll definitely let you know!
Jen
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My name is John Neilson(Jackie)tried seaching few years ago but got so frustrated with it and lost patience I just could not focus oñ one person but I am giving it a other try and will need all the help I can get . My