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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: GalaxyJane on Friday 06 January 06 20:17 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
Has anybody access to information on the cotton mills along the River Leen, in the late eighteenth, early nineteenth centuries?
These were the Papplewick mills, owned by the Robinson family.
I have found a brief history on line at http://www.papplewick.org/local/millinfo.htm
I would love to have more details on as many aspects as possible but am particularly interested in whether there are any records of employees, recruitment etc.
I have an ancestor who lived in the Bulwell area, circa 1787-1801, who must have worked in the mills, but I have been unable to find his POB –he was clearly not local as he is the only one of his surname, Angus, in the area. Any ideas on how I might discover his origins? There was mention on the above web site of apprentices from London,…Maybe he could have been one of these. How would he have found out that work was available in the area?
He was born in about 1760, according to his age on his death certificate, married at Bulwell in 1875, had several children, then moved to Cumberland in the first years of the 19th century, to work in the calico printing works at Woodbank near Carlisle –again, I am intrigued in how he found out about a factory so far away – maybe there were advertisements in the Nottingham press?
I would love to be able to look into this locally in person, but unfortunately I live abroad and will not be able to get home till July at the earliest
I would be most grateful for any suggestions or scraps of information
Regards and New Year wishes to all on the Nottinghamshire boards
Jane
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Hi Jane
You have an interesting reference already. I presume you have checked the historical directories site:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
I remember I checked the NFHS CDs for Angus and Oldham previously. I have just checked in the 2 main text books for lace, Felkin and Mason, and there is no reference to these mills.
I have printed off your query and will have a look in the archives next time I go.
Jane
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Hi Jane,
Many thanks for your interest. And many thanks for your initial work on my Angus family. I finally decided against the framework knitting theory as Henry was a calico printer on his death cert --seemed likely he would have been one earlier, back in Nottinghamshire. I loved the story about William, the wicked Lord Byron...
I did check historicaldirectories, but couldn't find anything early enough, worse luck.
Thank you in advance for trying to find out more for me. If you are snowed under, literally or figuratively :) just a few possible sources of reference will do., and I will be patient till I can get at them myself.
I do try to get to Nottingham when I am in the UK :)
Regards and best wishes
Jane
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Hi Jane
I've just found this about the mills and the Robinsons: 'Old Nottingham Suburbs' R. Mellors City of Nottm Leisure and community Services 1998. First printed 1912.
George Robinson was a cotton spinner, he and his brother having the Nether, or Forest Mill. It appears that when George Robertson came from Kincardineshire, in Scotland, and settled in Bulwell in 1737, a strong predjudice then prevailing against the people of Scotland, he adopted the English name of Robinson. The Papplewick Mills were built in 1777, and the Forge Mill in 1787. He died in 1798, aged 86, having left £50, the proceeds of which he directed should be distributed to the poor widows at Christmas. His tomb is in the churchyard. "He lived a bright example of industry, and every Christian virtue." John Robinson, son of the above, about 1805, formulated a plan by which employees were to share the profits, but owing to legal difficulties, it was not carried out. He, forty-two years after his fathers death, imitated his fathers example, and left £50 for the benefit of the poor, the proceeds being distributed at Christmas.
Jane
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Hi again, Jane,
This is brilliant! Such fascinating social history, and so very intriguing with the Scottish connection. I must check out Amazon and the used books websites, see if I can get hold of this book or anything similar.
I have been reading your other threads with interest, and they are all a joy, even though I have no connection with the people involved.
I am really grateful for your kindness in helping me out personally. Thanks to your initial work on my Anguses, confirming the IGI records on your lhs CD's I was able to link up with the trail that led to Carlisle and my GG grandfather, whom I can 99% confirm as a son of Henry and Elizabeth Oldham, though I haven't been able to find his birth records in Cumberland yet!
Thanks to your deep knowledge of the subject, I am beginning to appreciate that the best part of family history is the telling of the story, as opposed to mere name-bagging
Regards and thanks
Jane
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hello there
if you go to this website there are extracts from robert mellors book as well as other interesting articles from other authors.
www.nottshistory.org.uk
regards
rob
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Hi Robbie
Welcome to Rootschat. You are right Notts history is a good site.
Jane
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Many thanks, Jane and Robbie for this new titbit. what a lovely surprise, just goes to show that Rootschat is the site that goes on giving.
Robbie, welcome from me too, and enjoy!
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hi
ONE of the Mills still survives...... at Papplewick, have driven by it many times
(it is now a private dwelling)
try this link, they have a local studies section, and may be able to help
http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/home/leisure/libraries/joiningthelibrary/librariesdetails.htm?libraryid=53058
Julie
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Many thanks for the information, Julie. Might be worth a trip out that way one of these years then with my trusty digital camera..Now if only walls could speak, I might find out where my 3xG grandfather came from :) :) :)
all the best
Jane
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Hi
I take it your not local then? (to Papplewick) I might have some photos somewhere lurkin about, I know that in the 1970's Children from the school(I used to got to) went to the mill, to do restoration work on the waterwheel, My sister was one of em..lol (Iwas a bit young) about 4 lol.
I'll have a hunt around :)
if i can find any pix, i'll post em on here, if thats ok?
Julie
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That would be fabulous, Julie, when you have a moment that is! Don't want to take you away from your own research.
No I am not quite local, being a ways south east of Notts, you have to go on, till you get to the channel, go on across Europe till you get to the Bosphorus, go across the bridge and you are more or less there... ;D ;D ;D ;D
I do get to the UK once a year or so, and I have friends in Nottingham, so I have been to the Archives there once... Great folk
Love to Robin Hood
Jane
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OOOOOOO LOL,
you tend to forget theres a big wide world out there...... lol, well, I live about 5mins from there (by car) If I cant find any photos i'll go and ask if i can take some :P
The Dam has been filled in now, has been since the 1960's i think, there was a book, dont know if you can still get it, but i know the library has a copy, (as we have had it out on loan) gimme min and i'll see if i can find the title.....
here we are I think this is the one.. 'leen valley at work' By Martin Weiss
you might also like to try this site, it is the local paper 'dispatch' you might be able to post a request in it???
http://www.hucknalltoday.co.uk/
hope this helps
Julie
ps... have a look here :) look at the photos on the left............
http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/doc.asp?doc=7356&cat=738
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Wow! So there they are! You know I have been on that web-site yet I never came across those photo's. Thanks so much for pointing them out, and thanks for the book title, also the newspaper link.
You know I am not 100% sure my rellies (who were naturally, beamed down by aliens) worked there but it seems very likely, either they were that or framework knitters.. I just went hopefully with the mills, thinking it would be easier to get a lead, records or something, from a big concern. Plus as they went walkabout (beamed back up for readjustment??) between 1789 and 1801, they may have set off on one of the factory wagons heading for Lancashire, though of course they left no traces before they materialise for good in Carlisle....
Whatever the case, it's all interesting
thank you again
Jane
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Jane
Not a problem really... it all helps in tracking them down, (eventually) know the feeling about the aliens though lol.... been there, still there lol.. hence my lack of enthusiasum(sp) with MY lot...lolololol
IF he did work at the mill perhaps he was living locally? linby perhaps? might be worthwhile having look at the p/rs if any children born there, am not 100% on pre registration stuff, as i'm only just delving into that sorta stuff, but perhaps if there were any wills left that might help???
I know some of My rellies came from Papplewick (Samuel Shelton and married a Elizabeth MOORE) but they got married in 1813 @ Papplewick, thats all i know (this is one of my direct lines) so would be nice to get somewhere with it.. but thats another story
Good luck
Julie
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Hi Julie,
This guy named Henry Angus married at Bulwell, as per the PRs for 1785, but no sign of any other Anguses in the area, of any generation, hence the beaming down bit! ;D They had three kids, all in the Bulwell PRs bar one who features in the BTs only and is never heard of again. Stayed in the mothership, I guess.
The rest of the family pop up in a calico print factory in Carlisle, where they have more kids, well in their humble cot, not on the shop floor, ;D and the rest of the story is pretty simple!
No sign of wills till much later on when they have a couple of farthings to rub together.
They do it on purpose I'm sure, still I have got my revenge by moving out here! No one will find me when they look in the year 2200!
Thanks so much for the discussion, and here's hoping someone will come along soon with the answers to our respective dilemmas.
Jane
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That'd be
Isaac
Ann
Arabella
then, just found them on the BIVRI index
:)
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justa thought,
have you seen the samuel oldham, in bulwell 1851 cens? could this be a brother to elisabeth?
i suspect you have seen this, but was just wondering
Julie
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Those are they, Julie, thanks for your kind interest in someone else's rellies! Ann and Bella make it up to Cumbria, Isaac stays on board the ship I guess.
Thanks also for the heads-up on Samuel Oldham, I must look into him. I haven't so far gone into the Oldham family: having seen what a lot of them there are in the area I was kinda daunted and put them aside for later.
it is strange that, either you find one guy isolated so there is no chance of finding out more about him, or there are so many you don't stand a snowball's chance of sorting out the strands..
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http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/hucknall1909/hucknall26.htm
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Hi everyone
As someone who has spent the last several years researching Papplewick's history, and particularly the mills along the R. Leen, I might be able to help with your queries.
Jane - I have done a search through my databases including monumental inscriptions at Papplewick Church, parish registers (including the limited number of Bishop's Transcripts), wills, estate records and much more but without finding any trace of the name Angus. Sorry. There are no records which directly record who worked in the mills - there were between 800-1,200 people engaged - but a good number of employee names in Papplewick and Linby can be determined from other sources.
The Robinsons had a sizeable enterprise with mills in Papplewick, Linby and Bulwell parishes. They also had two warehouses in Nottingham. So it is possible your ancestor was based in Bulwell and never lived in Papplewick although he could have worked here.
I can tell you with a good deal of certainty that he was not an apprentice from London. The 'London Lads' as they were known came to Papplewick from the workhouse of St. Marylebone parish in London during the 1790's. They were usually aged about 8-12 years when they were apprenticed out. Don't believe the nonsense you might read about ill-treatment of apprentices in Papplewick, it simply isn't true. Some lads returned to their parents in London, some were apprenticed in Nottingham and others remained in this parish until old age. The name Angus does not appear in my list of London Lads and in any event, if he was born c.1760 he was far too old.
Julie - very much doubt children from your school went to Castle Mill to do restoration work on the waterwheel in the 1970's - it was removed well before then. The mill was converted to flats in 1952-1959. I used to pass Castle Mill daily in the late 1960's and early 1970's and I have no recollection either of it or the lean-to building that housed it.
There are numerous Sheltons listed in the Papplewick parish registers, probably related. Many of them give their occupation as cotton spinner so they did work for the Robinsons. I do not know where they lived in Papplewick, only that both Samuel and Elizabeth were resident here when they married. They are not listed in the 1841 Census for Papplewick, so had moved on by that time, but there is an Ann Shelton, aged 72 and living at Stanker Hill.
Sorry all this doesn't help much!
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Very many thanks to both owdcodger and rodney for their help. I am always amazed at the amount and quality of information I get from rootschat members, sometimes many moons after the original query, as is the case here.
I have since solved the mystery of my Angus family, to a reasonable degree of certainty, though as this involves records in other counties, I will not give the details here. If there is anyone who lands on this page and needs that information, please feel free to send me a message.
Meanwhile, I am grateful for such interesting background information on the Papplewick enterprises, and thank you and of course, everyone else who has replied earlier, once more
Very best wishes
Jane
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Hi Everyone
My GtGt grandfather was Robert Shelton b 1797 Middle Mill Papplewick, s/o John and Mary. I have done some research, and also live local, so have visited Castle Mill, had a look round, spoke to a young lady, who said it was her father who restored the building in the late 1950's. If you go towards the local pub in Linby, and walk up a path by the school, you can see in the distants, a three story building which I think is Forge Mill, I may be wrong.
I have found some burials at St James Papplewick, including my Gt Gt grand parents, and my Gt Gt Gt grand parents. Julie, I have also found the marriage of Samuel, and think he may be related to my family, but have been unable to confirm, I can't find where John and Mary where married, or where they came from.
Some one has done a lot of work on researching the village of Papplewick, and all this info is at the Archives, and is all A VILLAGE CALLED PAPPLEWICK. It has given me info, poor law records, newspaper artices, all relating to my Shelton family.
Maggie
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Hi All,
Owdcodger, many thanks for the info, will have to have a look for the other Shelton info, I did see Ann am not sure atmo if she is connected to me or not, I need to do some more digging. I know that my Sheltons had moved to Bulwell and they Samuel dies in 1859 and Elizabeth in 1863.
Jane,
am glad to see that you have solved the problem :) nothing like finally scratching that itch!!
Maggie,
I have sent you a PM
Julie
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I lived in Castle Mill from 1953 to 1970. The Mill was converted by my father (who is still alive and living in NZ) and Mr Dennis Shaw. Both architects. The Mill was in total dis repair with only 3 walls and no roof so it took sometime to get into a liveable state. It was a fantastic place to live and I went to the primary school in Linby till aged 11. I also had my wedding reception at the Mill. Happy to answer any questions. Now live in Sydney Australia.