RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Boongie Pam on Sunday 08 January 06 20:04 GMT (UK)
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I've started this new thread from the inspiration of another...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,31004.0.html
My own fascination in "potters" and earthenware dealers comes from my Anderson, Robinson, & Lowther ancestors from Cumberland and Northumberland.
There seems to be different kinds of pot or earthenware hawkers/dealers.
Those that had shop oulets and those that travelled a route plying a trade village to village.
In my family I have a <A HREF="http://fallon.rootschat.net/163.html">Henry Lowther</A> who seemed to be a man of means, owning properties in Wigton and Ulverston. He is listed in Pigots so I presume he had an outlet in Wigton. Another chap <A HREF="http://fallon.rootschat.net/161.html">Thomas Robinson</A> who owned a warehouse outside Carlisle at Brunstock - possibly the trade side of the dealing?
Other members of the family always seem to be on the move. Children born in many different parishes. Living in tents and caravans on the census.
One thing I've found is that whenever I find a "potter" or "Earthenware dealer" in Cumberland I can normally trace a relationship to my Lowthers.
This made me think was there a dynastic control over the trade? Anyway that's the basis for why I'm interested.
Way back when it is my belief that my ancestors came from gypsy ancestry. I have been in touch with one person with the same name who until a few decades ago still ploughed a trade in caravans in the north of England. He believes the Lowthers are connected to Lee, Herron and Lovell families of southern England and Wales.
So I am going to attempt to gather as much info on the hawkers and dealers of pots, earthenware and glass.
This is where I need your help!
Do you have any Hawkers or dealers in your tree?
If you do and you want to include data please post here.
The Earthenware Dealers seem easy to find as they appear in Directories but the Hawkers and travelling hawkers/dealers are harder to pin down.
Have you found them from census, BMD certs, MI, directories etc?
What other occupations of this vein have you found on census etc?
I've seen Potter (Cumberland), Hawker of Pots, Earthenware Dealer, Dealer of China, Hawker of small wares, Glass Merchant, China Merchant, Merchant of stoneware, Hawker of Crockery, Pedlar of China.
I want to map all the names - see how big a dynasty there was - if there was one!
December 18th 1841 CP : At Longtown on the 7th inst, Mr Thomas Anderson, potter, at the age of 79 years. The deceased was well known in the adjoining counties in his profession. Transcript from http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/longtown19/ Excellent Site!
Nice photo...
http://www.thepotteries.org/descriptive_account/hanley/37a.htm
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I have one in my sister in laws side of the tree. She comes from a long line of gypsey/travelling families.
Samuel Worrall as indicated on his daughters birth certificate 21/7/1884 as dealer of earthenware living in Marsh Lane, Shrawadine, Shropshire.
Samuel was born 20/4/1860 in Birmingham.
In later information i have him as a basket maker.
Any other info you want noted?
David.
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Hi All
Interesting topic!!......I too have found rellies in the same job....few details at the mo...sorry not as detailed as alot of you have already found out
What I have so far.........
Of my g g g grandfather's wife...in 1851..
Pheobe Morelee 47 Earthenware dealer as was her daughter Ann aged 16 living in Mold, Flintshire, North Wales.
Pheobe and a couple of daughters appear in later census as earthenware dealers or hawkers in and around the same town.
Nearly all the men appear as coal miners until 1870s when most moved to nearby Buckley and were in the brick industry........all the way along until my own father working in brick kilns in Buckley during the 1960's.........clay seemed to be the way to go in my family!!! LOL
This thread has certainly made me think about their jobs and to find out more about the earthenware dealers / hawkers that were in my family
Sarah
:D
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Thanks so much for your reply.
Some of my dealers became Besom makers and dealers.
I have no real ide what I'm going to do with teh info at teh moment :-\
But at least a database of names coupled with locations and maybe a map so if I see anyway of expending it I may try to get more info out of you ;D
For now that's great ta.
Sorry Sarah - posts clashed ;D
Thanks fro your info as well ;) It does seem a trade the women continued with. Teh ladies in my family seem to plough the money into property.
Morelee is a very interesting name. Do you know it's origins?
Pam
;D
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hello just saw your post dont know if this would be of any interest to you my traveller family were thorpes one branch of the the thorpes eventually settled down in glandford brigg in lincolnshire and they were described as earthenware /pottery dealers they had a warehouse type place on the industrial side of glandford brigg
i could provide more info should you feel this is of interest to you
donna ;D
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Dear Pam
I come from a dynasty of hawkers of pots in Warwickshire.
Like you I believe that their roots were gypsy, or at least traveller.
Their names were Kirby, Whitehouse and Bentley.
They were intimately connected to the Sharpe family of Ashby de la Zouch.
I suspect to the family that ran Sharpe's Pottery there. ( I haven't proved this)
It was through a marriage into the Sharpe family in 1830 that my ancestor Joseph Kirby entered the trade. His son married a Bentley woman and their son married a Whitehouse daughter.
This daughter, the matriarch of the later family, Sarah Whitehouse, was the daughter of an Elizabeth Whitehouse illegitimately by a John Bentley.
Elizabeth had five or six other illegitimate children before marrying an Isaac Bentley in 1864 in Birmingham.
Wherever they pop up, in the censuses, (widely disparate places) the same surnames crop up again and again, intermarrying, which is what I'm told gypsy families did.
This must be exactly what you are intewrested in, mustn't it? I think gypsies must have been the ideal people to hawk pottery around the country.
They would have been well used to long distance travelling, and known all of the best routes inside out.
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I'm a bit late to reply to this, but it sparked my interest. I've just recently come to the realization that my ancestors were potters, hawkers, pedlers, travellers, and such. There are some I don't have info on yet, and that would be my Anderson's. My GGG Grandmother was Isabel/Isabella Anderson born about 1771 in Northumberland. I believe her Father may have been Alexander Anderson, but haven't found her actual birth record yet. Isabel married Robert Todd (perhaps in Morpeth?). I've seen Robert as a potter and I believe pottery merchant or pedler in Northumberland. I've found who I think are 7 children attributed to them, and they did move around a lot within Northumberland. Their Son was Matthew Todd (b 1802) who married Helen/Ellen Drummond (b 1800),(my GG Grandparents), and they had 5 children in Scotland. On the 1841 census Matthew shows as a stoneware merchant. I believe Helen's Brother, Alexander Drummond (b 1803) is above them on the census and is a stoneware merchant also. On the 1851 census Matthew's occupation appears to say: travelling Marsh, or something like that, so seems to be a "traveller"? Alexander Drummond and I believe another Brother James (b 1812) are on the 1851 census as basket makers. I think Helen, Alexander, and James parents were an Alexander Drummond and Helen Diet, Dyet, Dyer, or Dewar (both possibly born early 1760s)? I've seen this Alexander as a basket maker, licensed hawker, Chapman pedler, in Scotland. They also moved around a lot. Matthew and Helen (Drummond) Todd immigrated to Ontario about 1855. In Ontario Matthew Todd was a horse trader and farrier.
Would be interested in possible ancestors/relatives of my Todds, Andersons and Drummonds.
Thanks!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA)
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Hi. My g g g g grandfather was a hawker of earthenware. But the jobs seemed to change from time to time. Some people did research on that ancestor of mine and here is what they found during the 1800 census.
1871
New Yard melbourne Derbys
William James Head M 56 Hawker of Earthenware Huh??Derbys
Jane wife 52 Derby Derbyshire
Mary daughter 18 Lace Glove Stitcher Melbourne derbys
Joseph son 15 Farm Boy Melbourne
Jane daughter 10 melbourne
RG10 3552 78 10
1861
New Yard melbourne
William James head M 47 Coal Higgler
Jane wife 41
Sarah James daughter 12 Silk Winder
Hannahjames daughter 12 12 Silk Winder
Mary Willm James daughter 8 scholar
Joseph Willm James son 5 scholar
Jane James daughter under 4 (or 1?) month
all b Melbourne
RG9 2489 60 13
1851
???anch Croft
Derby Rd Melbourne
William James Head M 38 labourer & potter Hartshorn Derbys
Jane James wife 32 Glove stitcher Melbourne derbys
William Willn step son 13 errand boy melbourne
Elizabeth james sdaughter 11 Nurse girl Derby Hills
Thomas W james son 9 derby Hills
Sarah James daughter 4 melbourne
Hnnah James dauhgter 2 melbourne
HO107 2140 319 3
That's the only one so far. They are the grand parents of my great grandfather to his mother's side.
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Hi Pam,
Are you still looking for info, most of my lot where Earthenware Dealers etc, Young's, Cunningham, Varney (and variants), Wilson, Kelly, Hartley etc.
Loads of them, all on the move, northern England and Scotland.
Would you be interested, if yes, then I will gather the info together and write it out for you, could take some time ::).
Yours Jane.
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Pam, I just spotted this thread as I was passing by, I've a Broughton Atkinson in Barnoldswick, Yorkshire who was a tailor all his long life but in 1881 he was also an Earthenware Dealer, not two trades that I would expect together.
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hi
i have Lowthers Sowerby Adams who were travelling and selling earthenware and horse dealing in 1800's in Cumberland, North England. I ahve more info and can share with you
best wishes
Marie
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I hope this project is still live as I have recently found some earthen ware hawkers/dealers on my tree too
James WHITEHOUSE was a hawker on the 1841 census born in Warwickshire and when he died in 1850 he was said to be 49 giving his birth as 1801. When his son was baptised in Hook Norton in 1823 James was described as an earthenware man.then in 1824 another son was baptised in Warwick and James was described as a traveller In 1826 and 1831 he was down as a potter then in 1834 he was once again described as a hawker. What is interesting is the next generation James born 1821 started his career as a policeman in 1861 then became a fruiter 1871 & 1881 However on the 1891 he is back working as a police constable. In 1845 this James married a widow Elizabeth Grimmerd nee WHITEHOUSE she was the daughter of Joseph and Ann WHITEHOUSE of whom nothing definite has been found. They are named on Elizabeth's baptism age 14 in Warwick her father's occupation given as Servant but no indication as to what type of servant, and why was she baptised at such an odd age. Elizabeth married Samuel GRIMMERD when she was 18 in St Martin's Birmingham She was widowed and left with two young children when she married James was he a sympathetic cousin or a distant relation Elizabeth and James had two children baptised in Warwick on one baptism his occupation was Traveller and on the other Earthenware Dealer Their son James born in 1850 was also a fruiter (1881)and dealer(hawker)(1891) he died in 1905 aged 56 and was described as a greengrocer.
Samuel GRIMMERD son of William an umbrella maker was this a Romany trade? Sam had a younger brother Edwin who was a trunk maker.again is this a Romany trade?he married the wonderfully named Euphemia Sarah Fielder the oldest of four sisters the others being Veronica, Lucretia and Josephine these names are a bit flowery do they belong to the travelling families? They are altogether a very mysterious bunch all four sisters tale exactly 9 years off their age on the later censuses why???
Have I found a Romany or Gypsy family among my Warwickshire ancestors? Can anyone give me a definite answer to the question are my Whitehouses true Romany or Gypsies
Hope you can throw some light on this small branch of my tree
Trees
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I have some later info on the Whitehouse family in Warwick.
Florence Whitehouse born 14/06/1874 at 14 Bowling Green St,Warwick,married soldier Thomas McPherson.
Florence father was a James Whitehouse fruiterer and general dealer and mother Amelia Green.
Florence and Thomas moved from Dublin where Tom stationed in the R Warwicks Reg,over to Oxford in 1920.He worked at Bisley and also ran a Territorial unit of a kind in Oxford University.He died in Oxford in 1952.
Florence died Oxford 1948.
The earlier origins of the Whitehouse family I too have been unable to get accurate.
Had no idea they may be hawkers until found this post today.
Brionne.
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Hello brionne
I had Florence's marriage but had not gone any further with her as she is a bit on the edge of my tree but her sister Ann Elizabeth married William PRATT in 1898 William was a son of my 2xgt grandparents and James Whitehouse(Florence's father) had a sister Harriet who married Charles Edward PRATT brother of William it isn't quite as complicated as it sounds.
You can see these PRATTS on our web site if it helps.
The biggest problem with the Whitehouses is who were Elizabeth's parents the only mention i can find of Joseph and Ann is on Elizabeth's baptism
Can we share the load with them a bit?
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i have hawkers of pottery in my family their down as dish hawkers on 1911 census for stirling .a alfred yates and a james yates also their sister mary jane boag my grt grannie living in newcastle at that time. ;D
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Just a note not all Earthen ware Dealers and Pottery hawkers etc were Romany thisi was a country trade long before the Rom and other travellers started to trade same as besom making and hurdle making and brush making all country trades for the peasant classes of that era .In fact many were listed as hawkers of one kind or another but this does not always mean they were Romany.
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hi Romany, Many thanks for that timely reminder but how can we tell a true Romany or not. I would like to know if my Whitehouse and Grimerrd family were or were not Romany please can you help with it? Did Romany folk ever have a permenant base where some of the children stayed while the parents travelled for example?
My James Whitehouse is described as a Hawker, a traveller and an earthenware man at various times but 4 of his known 6 children were all baptised in the same church and 3 of the children were living with a china dealer in 1851 I can't find any connection with the china dealer, Mary HAL,L and the family so why were the three all under 15 be with that lady And why did she have the three Whitehouse children and another 10 yr old Thomas Sandford and 15 year old john Harwood with her its really rather odd all the youngsters are called servants. Do the names Harwood, Hall, Sandford ,Grimerrd and Whitehouse have any Romany connection do you know?
Hope you can shed some light on it for me
:) Trees
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Just looking at Trees coat of arms. McMullen? My GG Grandfather wasn't a traveller, but was a McMullen or McMullan. He was a shoemaker from Ireland.
My Traveller's were Todd, Drummond, and Anderson. My families have shown as potters, muggers, stoneware merchants, basket makers, Chapman pedlars, licensed hawkers, tinsmiths, and in Ontario a horse trader. For a lot, I was able to find children's birth records, but the families obviously moved about a lot because of various birth locations. However, there are very few marriage records, so they may have married within a group.
I don't really know if mine had a home base, but it seems they probably did. On my GG Grandmother's headstone it says "of Perthshire", and that's not where she was born. Also, it seemed my GG Grandparent's encouraged their children to be educated, and I'm pretty sure one was educated at Perthshire.
I don't know if there was Romany influence in my family or not. My reading about Traveller's and Romany's indicates they probably travelled in different groups, but there was some intermarriage. My family seemed to move around the border and in the Lowlands. I have also read, that a lot of people had to "take to the roads" as a result of the after effects of the Battle of Culloden, when many were thrown off the land.
I may never know for sure, so I try to study all possibilities.
Thanks!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA, USA)
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Was he James from Bellaghy County Londonderry? I have sent you an PM James was my husbands gt gt grandfather and was a shoemaker
fingers crossed
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Thanks Trees!! I replied to your private message. My Irish shoemaker was John McMullen married at Downpatrick 1844.
However, one of my closest matches for DNA was a McMullen from County Londonderry, so this could be very interesting to pursue.
Thanks!! Tom McMillan
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Potters and earthenware dealers are to be found all over northern England of the past. The difference between gipsy and gorgio potters is revealed in their wedding certificates because each tended to marry his own kind. I have collected thousands of parish register entries referring to potters and earthenware dealers. If you would like me to post some of them please select a surname. I will include the other recorded occupations so that you can see what the proportions were.
All the traditional traveller families of the north have similar statistics with just over half the entries referring to pottery and many of the others being hawkers who may well have sold pottery.
TL
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The names I am interested in are Whitehouse,Grimmerd,Salmon and Randle but these are midlanders so I'm not sure if they would appear on your North Of England list :)
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If your still intrested in these people I have Billingham's listed as Licenced Earthenware Hawker/Dealer on several of the census (1881 1891) returns, and although the family are listed as living in a Caravan, they come from the Chain making Billingham's of the West Midlands area.
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Hi King OTG,
Have you any with the name Mills, from the early 1800s, in Nottinghamshire & Lincolnshire, or general East Midlands counties areas? I'd be very grateful for your help
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DBY Ashbourne bp29/6/1862 (b29/5) Annie Eliza d/o Joseph/Mary Ann MILLS, brazier of A
LIN Langtoft bp6/4/1841 Thomas s/o Robert/Susan MILLS, potter of Nottingham
NTS Aynho bp24/4/1755 Mary d/o Charles/Mary MILLS, travs
NTS Maidwell bp1/1/1756 Elizabeth d/o James/Elizabeth MILLS, trav
NTS Maidwell bp1/1/1756 John s/o James/Elizabeth MILLS, trav
BDF Maulden br25/1/1762 Elizabeth MILLS, a trav
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Thanks very much for those refs. The Thomas s of Robert & Susan is my family, but I will look into the others
Vimira
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Wow... At a long shot I thought Id type in my Granda's Grandma's name Ive been relentlessly trying to trace my roots... She was Martha Lowther a grand lady (hawker) married to Tom Crickerd. Her Dad was Chucky Bob Lowther...(Charles Robert Lowther) Martha and a lot of my family lived on Potters Lonning in Workington.. Was knocked down long before I was born.. I have a photograph of the grand lady and had the honour of meeting her daughter also Martha (My Grandads aunty) Who was also a grand lady :) My Grandad speaks highly of Martha and says she was a lovely woman. Also sold fish. Our family also has a connection to the Millers of Whitehaven... We may be related :)
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My Great x 2 Grandparents were James and Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick. They sold earthenware and made besoms and baskets in Northumberland. They became infamous in 1855 when they were charged along with a family of Andersons/Allen with the murder of their landlady called Dorothy Bewick in a case which came to be known as the 'Matfen Murder.' They were all acquitted at their trial in 1856. In 1841 there is a nine year old Jane Anderson with the family which would go on to be held for trial with my own ancestors. This family was made up of Isabella Anderson known as Tibby, Michael Allen, Jane Anderson and Ellen/Eleanor Anderson. They were hawkers.
James and Elizabeth's youngest son Thomas married Isabella Miller who was the daughter of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson. The latter was the daughter of Alexander and Isabella Anderson. (Morpeth area).
My ancestor James' had a sister called Ann who married an Adam Drummond. They had a daughter Mary. I don't know what became of Ann and family after that.
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Interested to see that this post is still going, my post 12, regarding the Whitehouse family Warwick.
Unable to add any more information Brionne.
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I just came across this post yesterday.
Incidentally, the Grandparents of Jacob Miller who married Jane Anderson were William Miller and Jane Steward.
Coincidentally, Jacob and Jane went on to have a Grandson called William Miller who married a Jane Steward in North Shields in 1913. This son was born to their son Michael Miller who married Elizabeth Watson who was the daughter of William Watson and Mary Conroy. Mary was the daughter of my Great x 2 Grandparents James and Elizabeth.
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My Great x 2 Grandparents were James and Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick. They sold earthenware and made besoms and baskets in Northumberland. They became infamous in 1855 when they were charged along with a family of Andersons/Allen with the murder of their landlady called Dorothy Bewick in a case which came to be known as the 'Matfen Murder.' They were all acquitted at their trial in 1856. In 1841 there is a nine year old Jane Anderson with the family which would go on to be held for trial with my own ancestors. This family was made up of Isabella Anderson known as Tibby, Michael Allen, Jane Anderson and Ellen/Eleanor Anderson. They were hawkers.
James and Elizabeth's youngest son Thomas married Isabella Miller who was the daughter of Jacob and Jane Miller nee Anderson. The latter was the daughter of Alexander and Isabella Anderson. (Morpeth area).
My ancestor James' had a sister called Ann who married an Adam Drummond. They had a daughter Mary. I don't know what became of Ann and family after that.
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Hi Jack,
Welcome to RootsChat!
Did you mean to post anything else besides my quote? I am quite excited to see if you are posting because you may also be a descendant, perhaps?
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Hi river Tyne lass, I noticed you mentioned Adam Drummond being married to Ann, they are my 5 x great grand parents. They had a son Thomas born in shilbottle in 1804. Andrew born eglingham 1807. Adam born longframlington 1810, jane longfram' 1814 and john born 1819 who died aged approx' 1yr. Ann's father was Andrew Allen basket maker native of lorbottle. I can't seem to find anything more about Adam or Ann prior to 1804, but I have the whole family tree up to 1903 if it's any help to you. Regards jack.
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Yes but I'm new to this and made a mistake. The Adam Drummond you mentioned who married Ann Conroy is Andrew Drummond and Mary Ramsey's son , I think I have the name's of the children they had but I'll have to dig through my paperwork for you.
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Hi Jack,
I wonder if we are talking about different people - the Ann Conroy who was the sister of my Great x 2 Grandparents James and Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick and who married Adam Drummond was born in 1834 and baptised in Chatton. They had a daughter called Mary before their marriage.
I am not at home but I have lots of information at home. Their marriage information and more ..
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Oh, so you might be a descendant after all? Very exciting!!
This would be great as after marriage I have lost sight of Ann and Adam .. although I believe I have info at home re daughter Mary which I can hunt out.
I have also lost sight of my Great Grandfather x 2 sister Margaret born 1837 and sister of Ann. Last I have her is when she was sent to the Hexham House of Correction.
If you are a descendant, I would gladly send my email to you by pm. I have researched a lot on this family so can send you a lot over time. (However, I must say I do not know still what became of Ann and Margaret and I still do not know what became of my Great x 2 ancestor Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick after 1881.)
What complicates things a little is that I also know that sometimes this family also used the alias name of Gilroy/Kilroy. This is definitely established. An article in the press also related that my ancestor James Conroy was also known as Gilroy - this came to light during a court case. Whether the use of these alias names was by accident or design I will likely never know.
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I have Adam being born approx'1836 and at 1834
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Is this Ann your ancestor? That would be incredible if you are also a descendant!! I have always wondered if I might come across another descendant on here. :D
I think the age of that Adam might sound right .. I have to go off now. However, I will be back on here later this evening and will post the marriage details I have for them. They married in Hexham at a parish Church even though Ann's family background was Catholic. She was also baptised at a Anglican Church.
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I have the marriage dated at 8th may 1962. But I've had problems with Adams since I started my family research, every son had an Adam in the family. But I believe this is the right one.his family are Robert born 1831. Andrew my 4x ggf born 1840. John born 1833
Eve born 1839 died 1yr of smallpox. Ann 1846. And jane 1850.
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Hi Jack,
To start this is Ann's baptism:
Holy Cross, Chatton
18 February 1834
Daughter of James & Mary Conroy
Abode: Lock Gilley, Ireland (I believe this is really likely to be Loughgilley but it is pronounced as like Lock Gilley.)
Travelling Besom Maker
By Henry Parker, Curate
This is what I have for their marriage:
St Andrew, Hexham
Entry 341
8 May 1862
Ann Conroy & Adam Drummond
His age 25 Her age 28
Bachelor & Spinster
Labourer
Both had residence as 'Hexham'
Fathers:
Andrew Drummond - Cooper
James Conroy - Labourer
Witnesses: Ann Canigan - her mark & John Robson
Both Ann and Adam signed with their marks
By Banns
Now this part I am unsure of but I did try to find something for Adam's background a good while back. I did come across an Andrew Drummond who was a Cooper living in Whitley (today known as Whitley Bay) in the Tynemouth registration district in 1861. His wife was Mary, who was a hawker & also
30 Robert - son
21 Andrew - son
19 Ann - daughter in law
15 Ann - daughter
11 Jane
It might be that Andrew's daughter Ann married Henry Johnson at St Stephen in South Shields on 1 October 1866. It might also be that they had a son John who married in 1858 to Catherine Smith Tynemouth reg district. However, I never got around to chasing all this up as I was not completely sure that this family might have been Adam's father and siblings.
Now going back to Ann & Adam I believe their daughter might have been this girl:
Mary Drummond
Parents Adam Drummond & Ann Conroy
Born 25 August 1854
Baptised 10 September 1854 St Francis of Xavier RC, Cheeseburn Grange
She is recorded as having been born at 'Waterloo'
(Incidentally my great x 2 Grandparents James & Elizabeth were living at Waterloo Cottages in 1855 and a couple of their children were also baptised at this Church. Their landlady was known as 'Dolly of Waterloo' Dorothy Bewick)
Now I believe this Mary Drummond turns up again in 1871 age 16 as the niece of Peter Conroy and Ann Conroy and living in Bedlington with Ann's children from other relationships (Jane Smith and Conroys although some really the children of Daniel McBride) and also her children by Peter.
Just briefly for now - I believe this Ann was originally Ann Miller whose father was Jacob Miller. The Millers and Conroys were friends and there were marriages between them down the years. I believe this Ann had her illegitimate daughter 'Jane Smith' baptised at Christ Church Tynemouth when she was residing in the workhouse. She then went on to marry Daniel McBride then Peter Conroy.
I wonder what you think of this so far? For instance, do you think that the Andrew at Whitley might have been Adam's father or do you think I have gone off track there?
I would be interested if you know what became of Ann Drummond nee Conroy after she married Adam if you know of this. Did she have more children? Where might they all be on the census? Also, do you happen to know where, when she and Adam died?
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Yes that is my 3 x ggf's brother Adam right enough who married Ann Conroy. I found a Ann Conroy Drummond on family search.org for the birth of Mary. The thing is there was 4 other Adams all born around the same time, all cousins. And I'm making progress with those but not with the Adam who married Ann unfortunately. Now there was 2 marriages that I'm aware of between Drummond's and Millers, I speak to a descendant of theirs from alnwick quite regularly. I will keep trying to dig more up about Adam and Ann though.
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Now that is very interesting, that there were four Adams who were all cousins. I am wondering now if there may have been more than one Adam Drummond with a wife called Ann Conroy. The one who married in Hexham and whose Father was James is my Great x 2 Grandfather's sister. However, I am now wondering if the couple who had Mary as their daughter may have been other people. I really think this daughter is the one on the 1871 census as Peter Conroy's niece as if you look on freebmd Ann and Adam's daughter's birth fits in with this Mary.
However, Peter has been a puzzle in his relationship as Uncle to this Mary - on his marriage entry to Ann - her Father is Jacob Miller but his Father is John Conroy who was a distiller. My great x 3 Grandfather James, who was Ann's Father goes missing after 1851. I have wondered in the past if he might have gone back to Ireland and died there, or if he died using the family alias of Gilroy - there was one who died somewhere in Newcastle - or even if he might have become changed his name to John, far fetched as that might seem. I do think this Peter will be some connection but I don't know what this was as yet.
I wonder if your Alnwick friend also knows about the connection of Millers and Conroys with the Allen/Anderson family too?
I am not on Ancestry but I would be interested to see your tree if you have one on there. If you do have one I would likely be able to look at it next week when I can get to the library - I am just heading home from nightshift now.
That would be great if you ever find out anything about what became of my ancestor Ann after her marriage to Adam in Hexham.
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I have all the wives names for all the Adams, as far as I can tell the Adam we are concerned with was the one who married Ann, but I was looking on two sites last night and they do seem to drop off the map. My great aunt Ann Drummond was married to Thomas Anderson so I will have a walk up to my cousins on Monday as I have heard him talking about his older brother who used to knock around with the Conroy's of Newcastle in the 1960s. I will keep trying to get to the bottom about Adam and Ann, the name Adam has cursed me for five years now haha.
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Well, I must admit I am not very up to speed with whose who and what links there might have been by the 1960s. My forays into researching tends to be focussed on much earlier periods of time than that, I find this keeps me busy enough.
There seems to have been links forged between the Conroys, Millers, Drummonds, and Anderson/Allens in the Northumberland area, particularly around Morpeth between the 1840's to 1870s.
I have found that there is a grave stone at St Albans, Earsdon which has an inscription for, Michael, Sarah, Jacob and wife Jane Miller nee Anderson. There are some Campbells named too. I do not know how/why they came to be named/buried in this Miller grave. I think that is what so tantalising, sometimes frustrating about family history research is that the question very often outweigh the answers.
Anyway, I digress - if you have the names of the wives of all four Adam Drummond, could you let me know if there were two Ann Conroys amongst them?
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I have been through all the Adams again and have narrowed it down to two one born in 1836 who married ann, and one born in 1837 who was either born in eglingham or beanley who shows up on the census as living with his father well into his thirties, he married a lass named jane who was 20 years his junior. This Adam was the son of the other Adams uncle Thomas if that makes sense. There is one more who married a Joanna miller but he wasn't from my branch of the family.
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Hi Jack,
What information do you have for Ann Conroy after the date of the marriage, the details of which I have provided in the earlier post?
I would be very interested to know of any further children she and Adam had apart from Mary. Also do you know where she is in the census following on from marriage and when, where she died?
I would greatly appreciate hearing if you know more than I already know. It doesn't matter if you might not know anymore - it is just in post 8 you mentioned that you thought you had the names of their children.
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I thought I did, but sadly it was for another one of the Adams. Adam and Ann Conroy just seem to disappear for some reason.