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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: gimpy on Tuesday 17 January 06 20:40 GMT (UK)
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Looking for info about Shaw and Dowds families that lived in Belfast Ireland in the late 1800's to present day.
Hazelnut Street was one address the Shaws lived at.
Mary Ann Shaw was my father's guardian when he came to Canada in 1930 and she lived at Hazelnut.
Maggie Dowds was my grandmother and she had a wooden leg!
Any info would be appreciated.
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hi - I have ancestors Dowds in my family tree - they came from county down northern ireland - they left and came to work in fife in scotland - if you would their information gladly give it to you - one was my gt gt grandmother margaret dowds - she came and married a james flannigan also from county downs - her parents were a james dowds and sarah flannigan - regards bambie
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Hi
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hi - I have ancestors Dowds in my family tree - they came from county down northern ireland - they left and came to work in fife in scotland - if you would their information gladly give it to you - one was my gt gt grandmother margaret dowds - she came and married a james flannigan also from county downs - her parents were a james dowds and sarah flannigan - regards bambie
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Hi Bambi
I am very interested in learning more about your Margaret Dowds and family. Do you have an idea when Margaret would have been born. My grandmother would have been born about 1887.
Thanks for writing. I look forward to hearing from you.
Gimpy
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Hi gimpy.
Belfast 1949
Miss Mary Shaw 19 Hazelnut St, North Belfast.
Could be Mary Ann's Daughter?
1962
Miss Miriam Shaw 19 Hazelnut St.
Is Mary & Miriam the same name?
Anthony
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Hi Anthony
Did you find Mary Shaw at 19 Hazelnut St in 1949? And Miriam Shaw in 1962?
Can you tell me what you were looking at? This is exciting. I bet it's the same person! I do not know when she died.
Please get back to me. Really appreciate hearing from you.
Gimpy
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hi gimpy - probably not the same Dowd's but one never knows with some idiot burning the registrar offices in Ireland.
My Margaret Dowds was born in 1845 in county down ireland she married a James Flannigan from Newry County Down Northern Ireland in 1856 in Fife (very young she was - they also put 10years to their ages when I found them on the census but on their deaths thought I had it wrong)
her parents were James Dowds and Sarah Flannigan (must have married into her mothers side of the family) got this from her wedding and death certificate. She had a brother Bernard Dowds who married another Margaret Dowds (maiden name Dowds - must have been a popular name there)- found their son on one of the flannigans census down as Nephew so traced him and found his marriage cert - thats when I knew who his parents were - the nephew was born in Fife - but cannot trace if he had any more sibblings -
my margaret dowds - also had another brother Edward Dowds (also on one of the census) he was born in 1834. ireland. Could not trace him in scotland so he must have came for a visit was not married. Also found Samuel Dowds who got married the same date as young Bernard Dowds they were cousins (whether to my margaret Dowds or to Bernards 1st wife margaret dowds ??) anyway found his parents and sibblings living in Fife Scotland James Dowds and Margaret Rourk born 1827 County Down Ireland some of their children also born in Ireland (including Samuel) who after he got married to Mary porteous born 1848 they seemingly went to live in Durham in England - found one census of them. Also on my investigation found a William Dowds and Margaret Dougen born 1829 and 1834 and their children - all born in fife scotland lived next door to them - so know that the Irish stuck together in Scotland as they were outsiders and people did not like them for taking their work seemingly - so my guess they are all related - kind regards bambie
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Hi
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Hi Anthony
What a terrific little map showing the streets around Hazelnut. Do you know if this area is in the Shankill? According to my father's army book, his sister May (or Mary Ann, possibly Miriam) lived on Hazelnut during WW11. Not sure when she moved in or out.
I think that people moved around a lot. I also know that Hazelnut street no longer exists so I don't know when it disappeared. So it is quite possible Mary Shaw made a move 6 streets away.
You could be right about a daughter. Wish I knew.
Could I ask a favour? If you have a directory for 1911 and 1920 could you tell me who is living at 24 and 26 Molyneaux Street? I think it is in the Dock area of Belfast. Hope it isn't too much trouble.
Do you live in Ireland?
Really appreciate your help. I am in Canada if I can help you here.
Gimpy
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Hi Bambie
Wow what a family history you have accumulated. I have a feeling I have a Scottish connection from comments my father made so I am not sure whether your people are connected to my people. I know from the Ulster Covenant there were several Margaret Dowds living in Northern Ireland in 1912. One of them may be my grandmother. As I have tried to research my Dowds, I have seen Bernard and Samuel Dowds. I wonder if they are your family? They were either living in Ireland later or descendants with the same names. The name James is significant to me but I am not sure if James Dowds is common or not.
I am going to save your information and ponder over it. It is much older information than anything I have.
If I think of anything else, or if you do - please let me know. I appreciate your help. I am in Canada so it is difficult to access too much.
Gimpy
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hi gimpy - yes it was a lot of work and a lot of money investigating them plus a lot of frustration - know what you mean about not having access to info - I got mine mostly from census from the scotlandspeople website and I live in Australia - so depended on the computer as I too do not have access otherwise. If you come across Bernard Dowds in your travels please let me know what you find - Bernard was such an uncommon name then in the 1830 - I do know by the census that they came from County Down and when tracing my Flannigans came across a cousin - his grandfather and my great grandfather were brothers and I knew that my Flannigans came from Northern Ireland and he filled me in with his father telling him - that his father father (his granda) came from Newry - gosh it made my day as I had such a lot of frustration wondering where in Ireland they came from - keep at it gimpy - and if they want to be found and you have the determination to find them - you will I am sure - kind regards bambie
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Hi Bambi
I found a Bernard Dowds on http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com. I am trying to remember if I saw the name anywhere else. If I think of it, I will let you know. Are you familiar with this site?
Let me know if this Bernard is anyone significant. It is unusual. So was Samuel. That's why they stuck in my head.
At least your efforts have paid off in information. It's been a long time since I had any new information so I really appreciate what you have provided to me.
Good night for now. Gimpy
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hi gimpy - thanks for that - no I am not familiar with this site - in fact just signed on first time when I wrote to you - and have got in contact with this guy on my cullen side of the family and wrote to him - found out I did not the wrong thing there - very hard getting used to new things and I am not the brightest person - finding it very difficult to do and do not have the time to waste trying to fathom it out - have a good sleep - keep in touch - maybe you can help me fathom out what the info I got of this other member - good night or should I say by the time you read this - good morning or as they say here "good day" - regards margaret
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Hi
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Hi Anthony
I didn't realize you had answered! You live in Belfast! I visited Belfast in 2003, 1st time. Loved it. I didn't have enough information at that time to research. I look forward to coming back one day.
There should be a 24 Molyneaux Court or Street for 1911. I was told by PRONI that was the address for my grandmother Maggie Dowds. That's the name I am looking for. I am also looking to see if my father Herbert Shaw, born in 1911, lived there after he was born.
Later his sister was at the Hazelnut address.
Thanks for your help! Any Dowds on Molyneaux Court or Shaws would be very helpful to me.
Gimpy
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Hi
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Hi Anthony
Thanks for looking up this stuff. This is what I got from PRONI
Maggie Dowds,
Register Number: 692,
Previous Residence: 24 Molyneaux Court,
Sex: Female,
Aged: 24,
Marital status: single,
Employment: Servant,
This was just prior to 1911. What do you make of that? Do you think there is an explanation??
John Shaw living on Moffett in 1896 - I wonder how old he was? There was a James Shaw and a John Shaw who lived at 19 Hazelnut Street according to the Ulster Covenant. And that was 1912. Not sure if he is the same person. If he was, he would be a relative. Not sure how to check that.
I wonder why PRONI would have wrong info.
Have you ever researched the Belfast Workhouse?
Thanks ever so much.... gimpy
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Hi
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hi Anthony
How do you know the Shaws were a big family in that area? Do you see a lot of them?
I have never heard of the name Officer.
Thanks for all the info you send me.
Gimpy
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Hi
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Hi Anthony
What I have been trying to do is find a connection with my grandmother Maggie Dowds who was supposed to have lived at 24 Molyneaux St and my father Herbert Shaw. I don't know what happened to my grandmother. She had a wooden leg and I am not sure if she died young. My father actually was born Herbert Dowds. I am trying to link up the Dowds with the Shaws. My father was born in the Belfast Workhouse, sadly enough.
Do you have any ideas?
What area does this man you work with live in- the Docks area or the Shankill? Would you say that Hazelnut is in the Shankill?
Thanks Anthony.
Gimpy
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Hi
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Hi Anthony
The Shankill Parish not in the Shankill district?
I don't understand how these districts work.
gimpy
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Hi Bambie
I saw this on the Mormon site. Notice there is a Samuel Dowds, Mary from Fife Scotland and a Maggie Dowds....This looks good!
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members. Personal Message sent.
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hi - gosh that is the info someone on the fife site sent me - did not know till I deducted his age from his birth that it was 1881 census - so that is good - got the 1991 census as well in durham and also the daughter margaret who married and their daughter - but he only had down ireland - and the trouble is finding out where in down ireland they came from - but grateful for any info and for the time you have spent - "Thankyou" - I really appreciate it - kind regards marg (bambie)
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Robert Dowd 27 years
to Jane Godfrey SHAW 20 years
on 15 /2/ 1849
H/F Richard DOWD
W/F Robert SHAW
civil marriage for Ireland
I also have a Shaw conection from Down but they were in England by 1841
audrey
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Hi Audrey
Where in England. I think my Shaws may have started in England
gimpy
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my Shaw's first found 1841 census Northumberland b Down then moved to Cumberland ,Yorkshire ,and Lancs
Audrey
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Hi, Gimpy;
I have seen posts between you and Bambi and would like to get more information about the Dowds family that came from Fife to Durham. Would you mind also copying Bambi, since I cannot find her email address to copy it myself. My wife is a descendant of William Dowds of Durham/Consett who I believe is a decendent of Samuel Dowds and Mary Porteous. Margaret Dowds (currently alive in Durham) is also a relative in the mix. If you can contact me and provide any more information about this portion of the Dowds family, I would be most appreciative!
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Hi, Bambie;
I just joined RootChat because of your posts and Gimpy's! My wife and her family have been researching their Dowd's ancesters with limited success. My wife's grandfather, William Dowds, lived in Black Hill and I believe came from Durham. I have heard that Mary Porteous was an ancester. Based upon your posts, it looks like Samuel from Fife may have been an ancester? My wife's father, Augustine, says that his gradfather came from Fife! Can you provide any other valuable info about the Dowd's family from Fife? Thanks! All of the Dowds cousins are trying to trace their roots.
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Hi
my ancestor was Rose ann Dowds born around 1835 to William Dowds and Rose Mcguire, she gives her birth in antrim and derry but I have no idea where, she moved to Scotland and Married James Mitchell who was from Tyrone, they married in Glasgow in 1855, this is my brick wall
Kind regards
Kathy
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Hi Kathy .. years later .. so sorry .. saw your Dowds and McGuire ..
Have you done any genetic testing. I am on 23andme, gedmatch, and FTDNA.. A couple of your names at the bottom also are familiar ones on my matches .. like Sweeney and Elliot.
GEDmatch M529084 is my kit number.
I am looking for Shaw but also Dowds and someone who is a close match to me is looking for McGuire.
Love to hear back from you.
Shirley
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Hi gimpy, did you solve the missing relatationship between the Hazelnut Shaws, with your Granny Maggie Dowds and your father Herbert and his syblings May, Robert, Joseph, and John.
I tried but became stuck Molyneaux Court or Street . If its Belfast its only Molyneaux Street
running from 58 Henry Street to Little George's Street [ I think that’s Dock ward in Belfast Co Antrim in the civil parish of Shankill. I searched PRONI own street directorys collection which ends in 1900. The Street directories show it never has numbesIt has never had street Nos above 22. Can you recheck what PRONI told you. Mary Lennons great website for Street directories www.lennonwylie. co.uk has eg 1918 A Maggie Glenn as the only Maggie and no Dowds or Shaws associated with it. The census 1911 confirms this as well.ie no Shaws and the census shows boarders names as well.
Going back in time to 1660 I notice the Shaws have been around for a long time in the Belfast areas eg the hearth money rolls of 1660’s see http://www.billmacafee.com
his headings for columns in a table are:-
Record No. No. in Barony List County Barony Parish Townland (Modern Spelling) Townland as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Forename as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname [Standardised]
14459 850 Antrim Belfast Upper Shankill Malone Upper Upper Liberties of Mallone John Show Shaw
14559 950 Antrim Belfast Upper Shankill Forth River Area Liberties of the glen John Shaw Shaw
15080 1471 Antrim Belfast Upper Lambeg Lambeg Parish Lambeg Liberties Thomas Showe Shaw
Molyneaux Court or Street . Its Molyneaux Street
running from 58 Henry Street to Little George's Street[ I think that’s Dock ward in Belfast Co Antrim in the civil parish of Shankill. I searched PRONI own street directorys collection which ends in 1900. It has never had street Nos above 22. Can you recheck what PRONI tiold you. Mary lennons great website for Street directories www.lennonwylie. co.uk has eg 1918 A Maggie Glenn as the only Maggie and no Dowds or Shaws associated with it. The census 1911 confirms this as well.ie no Shaws and the census shows boarders names as well. However that reminded me that Griffiths valuation was followed by Valuation offices being formed and changes of tenants and landlords all being registered in Valuation revision books. The Public Record office for northern Ireland has a digitized collection online up to about 1923. I think they may have found your Maggie Dowds so listed. However finding the right book is not straightforward. If you go onto PRONI website , enter the Valuation Revision Books section with a search for Molyneaux Shankill parish Co Antrim you find
the following small table
PLACE NAME URBAN TOWNLAND PARISH COUNTY DATE FROM DATE TO PRONI REFERENCE
Molyneaux Street Belfast, City of Townparks Shankill Antrim 1882 1896 the last reference doesn’t print out but reads {Current PRONI Reference:} VAL/12/B/43/B/11 (1882 - 1896). You click on this number and you move to sreen offering you Index Image, Forward 10 images, Next, Last image .
Click on Index image and its missing. I eventually found Molyneaux Streetappears on pages 383 and 384 of 521 pages. However on the actualpages are in red the numbers 436,437 and in blue 190,191. no names relevant to your query found. On the LHS of the image of the index page is a list of relevant numbers
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/44/4C
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/1
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/2
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/3
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/4
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/5
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/6
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/7
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/8
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/9
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/10
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/12
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/13
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/14
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/15
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/16
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/17
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/18
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/19
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/20
Open Image in a new window VAL/12/B/43/B/21
I opened B1 and found an index page showing it coveredup to 1881 B21 is VAL/12/B/43/B/21 (1916 - 1930)
found B18 is VAL/12/B/43/B/18 (1906 - 1915)
Molyneaux is in 2nd page of index its in book 11 page 244 BUT I have gone through the book twice and cannot find page 244 or any reference further to Molyneaux
I stop there dizzy. please have ago yourself
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I found the Molyneau pages in the next numbered volume VAL/12/B/43/B/19 (1906 - 1915) BUT no mention of Maggie Dowds,
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Wow .. I've been gone too long .. that's a lot of help. Thanks BallyaltikilliganG! I'm not really much farther along with my search .. but I have added to my tools DNA testing .. so anyone that is on GEDmatch I am kit M590824. Also on 23andme and FTDNA. Anyone considering doing this, I strongly encourage. I am seeing people from Australia, New Zealand, and all over the world .. Quite fascinating.
I asked PRONI a long time ago about the numbering on Molyneaux .. and had correspondence with them and they rechecked their records .. And the explanation was that it was either misrepresented or recorded improperly. So a dead end.
Will definitely look at the information you have provided there .. it is not something I am familiar with. Thank you for all your help!
I soldier on .. will report any new findings .. I did have one person who was corresponding called Bambi .. are you still here? Your email address is not working .. She had some Scottish connections with the Dowd/s family at the time I more or less discounted but now would look at a little closer.
Still hoping to hear about the Shaw family and the Dowd family from Northern Ireland .. any stories are greatly appreciated.
And thanks again for this information you have provided .. will check it out and it will be helpful just to know it .. and for the future for sure,
Will be getting a 2nd hip replacement in April so I remain,
Gimpy
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hi there james shaw was my 2nd greatgrandfather, married to mary ann hamilton. robert shaw his son married rebecca wilheme hickson, their son james albert shaw was my grandfather. james married irene kingsnorth who was from southhampton. he met her while studying at university there. i have a bill of sale for land in canada from 1912 for aplot of land in quebec, would this ring abell with you? regards kevin
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
robert shaw his son married rebecca wilheme hickson.........
Links to two marriages-
1907 Registrar's Office......Robert Shaw to Rebecca Wilhelmina Hickson.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10087/5669442.pdf
1908 Church of Ireland wedding
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10061/5659121.pdf
Two children-
Ethel Mary 1910
James Albert 1912
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01r0g/
KG
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In 1911 census with their young daughter-
House 9 in Newport Street (Clifton, Antrim).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton/Newport_Street/146262/
Rebecca born in Co Tipperary.
Edited to add:
Rebecca in 1901 census aged 20 in Co Cork, a nursery governess.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Carrigaline/Coolmore/1099933/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000509033/
Her birth in 1879, so older than her husband Robert.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02906/2064896.pdf
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hi yes rebecca wilhemena is buried in dundonald cemetery along with my grandfather james albert shaw, is it possible to message gimpy direct on this? i have lots of info for him thanks kevin
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hi yes rebecca wilhemena is buried in dundonald cemetery along with my grandfather james albert shaw, is it possible to message gimpy direct on this? i have lots of info for him thanks kevin
Gimpy has not been online here since August 2020, but if his/her email hasn't changed, he/she will receive a notification of your post and will hopefully respond to your posts. Since you now have two posts, you can use the PM (Personal Message) system to try to contact him/her. (click on 'My Messages' in the dark brown bar at the top of the page)
Looking at the Belfast City Council burial records, your gt grandmother Rebecca died on the 26th February 1936. She was living at 56 Reid Street, Belfast.
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8243.12952
KG