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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BlackPearl on Wednesday 01 February 06 20:10 GMT (UK)
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I have looked for the following family a few times lately but just can't find them! Have had a lot of other things on my mind and so, just to show that I have't gone completely insane (!) could someone please have a look for them on 1901 census:
George ROBERTS b. abt. 1855 in Gloucestershire
his wife Ellen b. abt. 1877 in Gloucestershire
their son James Henry b. abt. 1896 in ?
Thanks
Joanne ???
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Hi Joanne,
Can't see them either ???
Have you them on other census that gives more definitive place of birth?
Susan :D
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ok, let me see........
George Roberts is in Pillow Green, Corse in 1881 as a Blacksmith born in Corse. In 1861 he is with his parents in Fellows Green, Corse.
Ellen Jane Smith is with her parents in Westbury On Severn in the East Dean district in 1881 born in East Dean.
Does this help?
Joanne ???
Just wanted to add that James Henry was my Nan's Dad so they have got to be somewhere???!!!
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Joanne this is a mystery ???
No sign of any of them in 1901. I've also had a look at the PRO 1901 index, you can search by occupation, with no joy.
In 1891 Ellen is a servant :
Ellen Smith 14 Dom. General b: Gloucestershire East Dean
RG12/2056 folio 96 page 10
Jovial Colliers Inn, Ruardean
No trace of George Roberts in 1891 1901, except for this one living at The Flatt, Westbury on Severn
George Roberts 45 Lab. on Highway b: Corse, Gloucestershire
Louise Roberts 39
Do you want all details of this one?
(The Flatt is on the A48, where Lyes Butchers is ;) )
Have you got James Henry's birth certificate?
Susan :)
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If I could have the details of that George Roberts that would be great. I kinda thought that maybe he could have been married before Ellen as there is a 22 year age gap.
Perhaps I should be looking for a possible death for Louise Roberts between 1891 and 1894 as this is when George and Ellen were married. What do you think?
Unfortuantely I don't have James Henry's birth cert at the mo but am hoping to get it soon.
Joanne :)
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Hi Jo,
Sorry have re-read through my previous posting should have been 1901 not 1891 :-[
1901
George Roberts Head Mar 45 Labourer on highway Corse, Gloucestershire
Louisa Roberts Wife Mar 39 Elmore, Gloucestershire
George E. Roberts son - 14 Telegraph Messenger Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
William J. Roberts son - 10 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
Alfred S. Roberts son - 7 Glewstone, Herefordshire
Walter A. Roberts son - 2 Westbury on Severn, Gloucestershire
The Flatt, Westbury on Severn
RG13/2417 folio 20 page 10
So........ unless he was married to two wives :o
Susan :)
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None of his makes sense !!! lol !!!
I've rechecked some info.
My Nan's maiden name was ROBERTS. Her sister told me that their fathers mother was called Ellen Smith. There is a marriage: Ellen Jane SMITH Sep 1894 Westbury S. 6a 455. On the same page is a George Roberts
I have a reference to a birth for Ellen: Ellen Jane SMITH Dec 1876 Westbury S. 6a 261. She is there in the 1881 census so I know that this is the correct Ellen.
I suppose the next thing to think might be have I got the correct George Roberts? Could there be another one floating around out there who is closer in age to Ellen than the one we have been looking for?
I don't know what search peramiters you used when you searched the 1901 for me, but do you think that you could have a look again by just using Ellen Roberts name? (One thing just occured to me - she could be under the name of Jane instead)
Much appreciated
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
Still can't find her :(
I'm in the Glos RO sometime this week, shall I look up that marriage at Westbury ?
Susan :)
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That would be great - you star!
Looking forward to hearing from you!
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
Couldn't find the marriage at Westbury ???
Could have been at one of the outlying churches or chapels within Westbury parish.
Sending for the marriage certificate would be the next logical step, this would give you more details and perhaps ages.
Susan :)
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ok joane dont know if this helps or not?
living in two mile hill road,bristol st george in 1901-
george roberts 26yrs born bitton gloucestershire
jane 24yrs born born st george
ethel 2yrs born bitton
gifford 1yr born st george
SOURCE INFO-RG13-2394
FOLIO-77
PAGE-20
regards
alli
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Thanks for the info Alli - I will definately keep it in mind!
Joanne :)
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looked on 1837 online.com there is george and ellen roberts try this it me know what part of glos as iam from there
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Hello dgabb,
Welcome to RootsChat ;D
Susan :)
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Joanne I believe I've sorted out the Westbury marriage ::)
September qtr. 1894 6a 455
The names on the page:
BRAIN Ruth
SMITH Ellen Jane
HALE Moses
ROBERTS George
We summised that Ellen Jane Smith married George Roberts.
So I had a look at 1901 and found Ruth and George Roberts, Ellen and Moses Hale :o
Ellen Jane Smith married Moses Hale
and Ruth Brain married George Roberts.
Next time I'm in RO will have another look for this marriage, or I'll ask the Vicar :D
Susan :)
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Joanne, more intriguing by the minute ::)
in 1891 Moses Hale is boarding with Ellen Smith's parents in Westbury! This must be the Ellen that Moses married in 1894 at Westbury. Ellen's not at home she is a servant, as previously posted. (Reply # 3)
Charles Smith Head Mar 53 Coal Miner Glos. East Dean
Charlotte Smith Wife Mar 56 Glos. East Dean
Louis Wilce G'son S 21 Coal Miner Glos. East Dean
Alice Smith Daug. S 16 Gen. Servant Glos. East Dean
Moses Hale Boarder S 15 Coal Miner Glos. Bury Hill
Westbury on Severn
RG12/2004 folio 122 page 6
Could be that Ellen was married twice ???
I think you need to get James Henry Roberts birth certificate that will answer a lot of questions!
Susan :)
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Ok now I am totally confused! So, I had the wrong marriage then? The man's name was definately Roberts as that is my nan's maiden name, from her dad, James Henry Roberts, from his dad who I thought was this George we have been talking about. It was my nan's sister who told me "our dad's mum was Jane Smith but Jane was her middle name and I was never told what her first name was" hmm.......... I surmised this to mean that she was Something Jane Smith who had to have married a Roberts - right? Or could I have been barking up totally the wrong tree all along??? arghhhh I think I need a glass of wine!!! and you are probably spot on about my great-grandad's birth certificate - If I can identify which is the right one - lmao!
Joanne ::)
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OK just spotted something else in your post
are you sure that Lewis Wilce is down as G'Son in the census? because I have him down as one of Charlotte's children by her first husband - there was also Joseph Elizabeth and James Wilce by her first husband.
Cheers
Joanne :)
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Definitely G'son ??? I looked back at earlier census and noticed stepson. Obviously an enumeration error!
Yep you need the birth certificate, going to be difficult ::) You know approximately when he was born, but not where. Do you know where Jane Smith was born, obviously not the one in Westbury ???
Susan :)
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Joanne, have you got access to 1901?
Just supposing Smith was Jane's married name, she then became a widow and married a Robert's? Maybe clutching at straws ::) Was there a connection with Westbury on Severn that you know of?
James Smith Head M 56 Fishmonger - Retailer b Westbury on Severn
Jane Smith Wife M 40 b Westbury on Severn
Minnie Smith Daur S 24 Shop Assistant - Fish b Staffs. Sedgeley
Lena A. Daur S 2 b Glos.Cheltenham
James Henry Smith - 3 months b Glos. Cheltenham
210 High St., St.Pauls, Cheltenham,
RG13/2460 folio 126 page 22
Susan :)
Edited full details added
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Here's a death of a James Smith
James Smith age 58 March qtr. Cheltenham Vol 6a page 306
Susan
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oooh you've got me thinking now
I had never considered that and if it was never talked about when my nan, her sister and other siblings were young, how would they know if their dad went by his stepdads name instead of his natural dad ? I suppose people weren't quite so open about things like that back then huh?
Post the census details if you can please
My Nan's sister said that Westbury On Severn is where her dad's mum was from, all the my close family originate from the forest of Dean and I am currently just down the road in Lydney.
Joanne :)
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Have posted details above save going to and fro ::)
I'm in Westbury :D
Susan
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Hi Susan
I've been thinking about this problem family again. Maybe she was just Jane Smith after all and not Ellen or Ellen Jane. I have found a marriage for Jane Smith to JAMES ROBERTS registered in Pontypool, Monmouthshire which could be her. I have tried to find them on the 1901 but have had no luck so far. Would you be able to check them out on the 1901 and 1891 for me please?
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
What year was the marriage ?
Susan :)
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The marriage was in 1888
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
Still can't find them, have looked in Wales too ???
Have found a birth for a Jane Smith
Jane Smith Westbury on Severn March qtr 1873 Vol 6a page 266
but this would mean she would be too young to be the one in the marriage you found ::)
Susan
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Another thought ::)
Get hold of James Henry Roberts marriage certificate, this would give his father's name, and help in search.
Susan :)
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Hi Joanne,
What was the name of James Henry Roberts bride, and do you know the area they married in?
Susan :)
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Hi, yeah, I have the details to get that marriage certificate. James Henry Roberts married Minnie Frances Barrett Sep Quarter 1925 District Monmouth vol 11a page 54. Great Grandma Minnie died when I was about 6 months old and my mum was glad she did too because by all acounts she was a right cow! lmao!
Joanne ;D
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That's good, then at least you'll have a father's name to work back!
Certificate from the GRO are taking about 10-14 days at the moment, must be because of the TV programme Who Do You Think You Are ::)
Susan :)
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Susan
Could you take a nother look for me at the 1901 census - there is a 2 year old James Roberts b. Gloucester Gloucestershire in Gloucester, Gloucestershire perhpas this the James I am loking for?
cheers
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
Arthur L. Roberts Head M 30 Railway Engine Stoker Gloucestershire Gloucester
Alice Roberts Wife M 29 Gloucestershire Gloucester
James Geo Roberts Son S 2 " "
Agnes Kate Dau S 1 " "
65 Blenheim Road, Gloucester
RG13/2430 folio 109 page 8
Susan :)
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Hmmm so not him by the looks of it.
I have been able to find the baptisms at Coleford of all his children from 1925 to 1938 and they all give his name as James Harry but when he married I am sure that I see his name as James Henry on the microfche that I looked at - would that have made any difference to our prevoius search for him? He married Minnie Frances Barrett in the district of monmouth (monmouthshire) but this also covered areas of forest of Dean. They did not marry in Coleford, or Drybrook, Redbrook. Haven't had the chance to look at English Bicknor, Newland, or Bream.. What's a bet it is one one of them?!!!
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
When I searched, looked for James H Roberts. Did you send for his marriage certificate? This should answer a few questions ::)
What were his children's names? This may give a clue, usually a son was named after grandfather.
Susan :)
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Well if I can weasel the cash out of my other half I will be sending for the cert on thursday!
But here is James and Minnie's Children:
Katherine Emily Roberts bap. 25 Dec 1925 Coleford (were they nuts!!!)
Percy Hubert Roberts bap. 15 Mar 1927 Coleford
Dennis Raymond Roberts b. 22 Jan 1929 bap. 14 Feb 1929 Coleford
Leslie Gordon Roberts b. 18 Feb 1930 bap. 18 Feb 1931 Coleford
Eunice Doris Mary Roberts b. 28 Jul 1933 bap. 14 Aug 1933 Coleford
Nancy Iris Eileen Roberts b. 18 Sep 1935 bap. 27 Oct 1935 Coleford
Shirley Margaret Roberts b. 28 Apr 1938 bap. 19 Jun 1938 Coleford
The place of abode at their baptisms was all Broadwell except for my Nanny Nancy's which was Bakershill, Coleford. James's occupation went from Chemical Worker to Chemical Worker again and then Labourer, Collier, back to Chemical Worker, labourer again when my nan was born and then when great Auntie Shirley was born I think he was probably already ill as there was no occupation shown.
I did find a James H Roberts b abt 1897 West Dean (so this covers Coleford area) in West Dean, Monmouthshire on the 1901 Wales census at ancestry.com with Father as Hubert Roberts and mother as Maria Roberts. Note the first born son's middle name was Hubert!
What do you think?
Joanne :D
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Hi Joanne,
Yes, I found Hubert/Maria Roberts - thought we were looking for Ellen/Jane ???
There are no children with name Ellen or Jane! Nor Maria if it comes to that!
Hubert's not a common name is it?
Susan :)
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I know lol! I am beginning to think that my great auntie was either telling porkies or has herself been told some porkies!!! So I guess that we should have been looking for Maria with Hubert Roberts in the first place instead oof the other guys - right? I've already found Hubert Roberts and his family on the 1881 census.
Joanne :)
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Don't go charging off Joanne ::) Wait until the proof with the certificate.
I've been impatient in the past and wasted a lot of time and effort, having said that at least these days a lot can be done on the internet.
Susan ;D
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Susan
I sent of the application for James and minnie's marriage cert today! Yay! Like you said it should give us a defo name for his dad.
I also sent off for the birth cert for one of my partners birth grandmothers - we don't know who his father is hence we wouldn't be able to look for his other grandmother. We are really looking forward to recieving this one because his Grandmothers maiden name was Taubman - now that could be german or polish or Ilse of Man! and we know that her mum's maiden name was McGill. He is really interested in finding out about his Irish/Scottish clan ancestry!
We both wait with baited breath - me inparticular to start solving my Roberts family problem!
Joanne ;D
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Well done Joanne ;D
Certificates are taking a couple of weeks from the GRO at the moment. I ordered two on 15th Feb and still waiting :(
Susan :)
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Have your certs arrived yet Susan?
Joanne :)
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Hi Joanne,
One arrived today, note inside said other to follow. Always the way, the second is the one of more interest ???
Susan :)
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So, how long did that take to arrive??? ::)
Joanne :(
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Hi Joanne,
Three weeks :o
The other one I ordered arrived today; the postmark on the envelope was the day before the postmark on the certificate that arrived yesterday!
Hope you understand that ;D
Think, in future, will order from the office local to the area of registration!
Susan
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hello for some reason i only seen your hello today sorry did u need any help from me i live in glos
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Hi Guys
The certificates arrived today and ..... wait for it.......... wait for it.............................his name was James Harry not James Henry and his father's name was.... Hubert!!! Who the heck George was I don't know and I reckon that Ellen/Jane we were looking for was a complete red herring on my great aunties part!
James Harry Roberts aged 28 a bachelor a chemical worker of Broadwell Lane End, Coleford (like I said covered by the district of monmouth - I also said they weren't married in Coleford! I was wrong!) fathers name - Hubert Roberts a Quarryman
married 26 Sep 1925 at St. John's Church, Coleford to
Minnie Frances Barrett aged 22 a spinster of Blakeney, fathers name - Frederick Barrett a Grocery Porter.
Susan - can you get that 1901 info for the Hubert and Maria Roberts that was mentioned in a previous post please - I can't seem to find it.
Cheers
Joanne ;D
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Hi Joanne,
Good news ;D ;D
On the Wales 1901, although it's Coalway in Gloucester, registration district is Monmouth!!
Hubert Roberts Head M 25 Quarryman (Stone cutter) West Dean
Maria Roberts Wife M 26 - West Dean
James H. Roberts Son 4 - West Dean
Coalway Lane End, Coleford St. John's
RG13/4922 folio 27 page 19
You can start going back on the earlier census now ;)
Susan :)
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Hey Coalway, Coleford - practically the same place lol!!! you have been a great help you know - I guess I'll never know who the heck Ellen/Jane Smith is.
Perhaps she is family somewhere along the line just my g-aunt is confused over where. Does mean though that I have a bit of tidying up to do on my rootsmagic database :(
Joanne :-*
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i live in gloucestershire to which part are u from ? :)
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I'm in Lydney - what about you?
Joanne :)
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:D 1am from stonehouse near stroud and hi
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Hi dgabb,
Wecome to RootsChat, get's addictive don't you know ;D
Susan :)
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hi i know been doing my family tree for over2 years and only just found some ;D
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Hello! Iam new to this website. I know this post is very old but do you have a copy of a family tree regarding this current thread? As this is my Nan's mum and dad.
Thank you