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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: mrs noah on Saturday 25 September 04 21:57 BST (UK)
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I am interested in Canal Boatmen, The Staffs and Worcs canal, The Black country routes, and the Trent and Mersey Canal. Is anyone else interested? and if so, can we exchange information?
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Yes, I'm looking for Thomas Smith 1852 and Henry Smith 1830? both listed as boatmen, although later miners etc, census returns Hardingswood, Kidsgove, 1881 I have a few strays, you may have these alreay??? Nel
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Hello/
Have you anymore info about the 2 men you are looking for?
I have only just picked up your querie.
The trouble is there a lot of Smiths about....
Mrs Noah
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Hiya, Thomas Smith was my GG Grandfather. He was born in Hardingswood, Kidsgrove. Hardingswood comes under Audley Parish but Kidsgrove is Tunstall so part of Stoke- on Trent. His birth, 1852/3 wasn't registered so I now have to look in parish records, not sure where to start? His father was Henry Smith ? born 1830 in Stoke, his mother was Caroline. In the 1871 census at Hardingswood, Thomas is listed with his parents and siblings, Daniel, Henry, Sarah, Alice, William and George. Henry at this time was a head boatman, no idea which company he may have worked for or name of the boat. Family rumour says they had a link with The salt mines in Cheshire.
Thomas wife was Sarah Archer whose father Samuel was also a boatman, they were from Odd Rode Cheshire. I have Thomas in 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901. Henry died 1883 -1901, is this any help. Do you need any info? Nel
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Hi
Have been trying to decide just what it is you are asking for......... as you know who you are looking for and have found them on the census.
Hardings wood is near to Church Lawton and also Kidsgrove.
Perhaps you might find your Thomas registered there.
It is worth remembering that Canal Boatmen, if they lived on the boat were not keen to linger at any one stop and would only tie up and wait for a baby to be born before casting off again,,,hence a child born in Staffordshire might turn up as being baptised in Stourport!!!!!!
some times more than one child would be baptised on the same day....which complicates things.
They might be helpful also try looking in the will index.s some times you are lucky and find a will or an administration I have been fortunate on a number of occassions to have found a boatmans will.
The Stafford record Office will hold the PRs for Stoke area and the Record office in Chester will have the cheshire PRs.
Have found another Thomas Smith [not yours] marrying in 1865 a sarah Wilding in Middlewich.....
and a Thomas Smith dying in Middlewich in 1903 aged about 66.
I also have references to Archer in Kidsgrove and Archer and Smith in Odd Rode. If you would like me to send them to you i will.
You mention that Henry was sometimes associated with the salt trade.
Salt and midcheshire go together,
and many men worked down the salt mines or carried salt on their barges. Winsford and Northwich were very industrail in those days so Henry and his Family could have been involved in both types of work.
My canal boatmen worked on the Trent and Mersey, and the Staffs and Worcs taking goods from Runcorn to Stourport!!!!
Is this of any help?? Is there anything else i can say that might help you?
Mrs noah
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Hi
If you are on line ,,,,,,I am too .....
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My gg grandfather Joseph Fletcher lived staffordshire worked on the canal.b.1844
cheers cardiff
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What famillies did your Fletchers marry into?
which Canals were they on???
How does it connect to Wales? is it through the shroppie
Mrs N
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Hi
Joseph Fletcher b.1844
M Ann Phillips b.1844 Penci Rhiwabon Wrexham North Wales
They lived in Bilston Staff.
I understand that Joseph’s father was also called Joseph I am unsure which one worked on the canal but they did own their own boat.
I was interested to hear you ask about the Shropshire lot?
Is this a common connection?
They had eight children Clara b1866, Joseph 1868, MaryAnn b1870, Fanny b1872 Martha b1879, Frank b unknown , Richard b. unknown. I believe one brother immigrated to Australia.
Their fifth son John Fletcher born 1874 is my great grandfather he married an Eliza Jane Wilkes b.1875 Porthill Shropshire.
When they married John’s address was 9 Buath Glys Pontygwaith that’s near Quakers yard S.Wales.
I also understand that area has a lot of Fletchers.
John lived the rest of his life in Porth in the Rhondda and died in 1947. John also married twice more.
I don’t have all the Fletcher side of the family info, a cousin has that.
But have been following the Phillips side of that family.
Cheers cardiff
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Mrs Noah, thanks for reply, I do have quite a lot of info but now looking for Thomas Smith baptism as birth not registered you're right could be anywhere. Clues so far St Thomas' Kidsgrove other siblings baptised there, ? in the Potteries info a little lacking on line!
Also looking for name of narrow boats they have worked on... Henry was a head boatman so must have been registered somewhere, just need pointers to the right place. Thanks Nel. I seem to keep missing you
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My GG Granfather was John Tonks a Boatman
In 1887 his Grandson John Tonks (not my Grandfather) married Martha Smith in Middlewich
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Hi.
Feb 14th 1887.
John Tonks and Martha Smith.I have the entry .
I have transcribed the Middlewich PR of all the Boatmen.
fascinating!
Presumably you have the entry or the certificate???
Mrs N
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Mrs noah
any chance of you answering my message... you did ask!
cheers cardiff
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Mrs N
I don't have the certificate and would appreciate any information you have. Do you know of any other Tonks boatmen?
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Mrs noah
any chance of you answering my message... you did ask!
cheers cardiff
Yes I did ask you for the connections into the other boating families and I have been looking into my notes to see if I can find any Fletchers.
But with all things it takes time.
Sorry!!!!!! please be patient!
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Mrs N
I don't have the certificate and would appreciate any information you have. Do you know of any other Tonks boatmen?
Hello.
St Michael and All Angels Middlewich.
the entry reads as follows.
1887
Feb John Tonks 26 Wdr Boatman Middlewich
14th. Martha Smith 18 sp Newton
William Tonks Boatman
Thomas Smith Boatman
By Banns.
Witness George Rowley
Sarah Brooks.
He didn't sign the register
she did sign the register.
will look for any more entries, this weekend.
Mrs N
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Fletchers of Cardiff.
have looked in my notes and I find no sign of Fletchers. Which doesn't mean there aren't any ..just that I haven't got them.
If they were all in Wales they are most probably married into the local community there.
Bob Tonks.
Hi!!
Have found 2 more marriages for you....
both in Odd Rode Parish Church.
They are both in the 1900's........which is getting a bit late ....but here they are
1905
May Frederick Escourt 22 B Boatman Thirlwood
22 Selina Tonks 18 s Thirlwood
George Escourt Boatman
John Tonks Lockkeeper.
Witness Henry Harrison
Elizabeth Harrison
and
1907
April John Tonks 45 Widower Canal Labourer Thirl'd
8 Rachel Done 34 Widow Thir'd
William Tonks Boatman
Samuel Simms Collier.
Witness Edwin William Ashbury
Nancy Ashbury.
Anoth wedding in 1906 has
John Tonks and Martha Tonks as Witness.
any help??
mrs N ::)
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Ref John Tonks
Thanks for the info. Very interesting. A Martha Tonks died in 1906 , Sandbach. This could be John's third marriage. Finding any children should be fun. I found John Tonks 1899 but that is all so far.
Is John Tonks, Lock Keeper, him. He appears to have moved from boatman to lock keeper to canal labourer. All those women in his life took its toll.
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Sorry mrs noah thought you had forgotten all about me :'(
cardiff
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:)
Hi Cardiff.
I never forget anyone! It is that sometimes I take a bit longer than I like to reply. 'tis life you know!!!
I have looked in my notes and the only Fletchers I have found are
RG11/2696. [1881 ]
I found this in Hanley Library ages ago.
Boat....no name....
Charles Fletcher H M 57 Boatman Salop Bridgenorth.
Mary A w M 57 B Wife Staffs Dudley Port.
Jane d Um 16 Staffs West Brom:
Ellen d Um 12 Staffs West Brom
Mrs N
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Hi mrs noah
thanks for looking......I will be contacting a cousin of mine soon and will ask him for more Fletcher details.
have a great christmas
cheers cardiff
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Hello,
How do you know where to start looking with canal families. My mothers maternal side of the family were boat people many years ago. I've been able to trace my great grandmother(Hannah Prudence Jones born 12/5/1872 at Etruria Wharf,Shelton,Stoke on Trent)parents Abel Jones-boatman and Sarah Jones nee Jasper. I found the marriage cert of these in 1864 in Dudley and Abels father is George Jones-boatman whilst Sarahs father is John Jasper - banksman? I can't find them(Abel&Sarah) in either the 1871 or 1881 census and Hannah Prudence is only found in 1890 when she marries before dissapearing from the 1891 census. Would it be common for boaties not to register. I would like to find them and their named barges someday but where to look I've no idea.
Regards
Brian. :-[
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hi
i wonder if anyone came across the twigg family thy were all boatmen on liverpool/leeds i am looking for george twigg 1800? married to a elizabeth ? i have there sons baptisum records but no birth so i carnt go on looking for elizabeth
regards twigg
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Hello Twigg.
I have just seen your post and thought I would reply to you..
You have more than likely progressed since you sent the message but here goes.
How do you know about George Twigg? you have question marks against his name, also Elizabeth.
in 1800 there were usually only baptismal records no birth entry, that only came later so unless you can find the marriage of George to Elizabeth things will not be easy.
Usually but not always Boatmen had their own special Church that they would try to return to for baptisms etc do you have any idea where your Twigg Family stopped off whilst on their journeys??
Try and make a map of their movements and build up a picture of them.........
What happened to the boys did they survive ??
and what end of the Leeds Liverpool are you standing at ?????????????
Look at the whole picture...........
Good hunting
Mrs Noah
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hellow mrs noah
thank you for your email
heres what i have
my father and his family were boatmen
william was my grandfather dob 1882 married florance ashley in runcorn in 1902
his father was john dob1855 married jane elizabeth smetham in runcorn 1877
on the marrage records his father was george twigg boatman
i have john on st marys register baptism register wolverhampton father george mother elizabeth along with a james 1851 lived 5 days and brother james twice ,1857 both sons of george and elizabeth
will this help as i have tried to get the birth records but no matches kind regards twigg
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sorry mrs noah
i am standing the liverpool end
twigg
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Hello Twigg.
Since writing to you, last night i have seen the correspondence on the other board.
So thankyou for replying to me. I will get back to you when I have digested your information and see what i think..........I come from Wolverhampton although have lived in North West for years, so know that part of the world! My Canal Boatmen travelled all over the network and it has taken me years to find them, and some I am still looking for! So will get back to you asap.......
Mrs Noah.
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Hello Twigg.
I have been trying to find some reference to your Twigg family and have had hardly any luck at all,they certainly knew how to avoid being documented.
I found some of the Wolverhampton entries and would suggest that you went to Stafford Record Office and had a good look at the Census returns.
Also I looked in the bmd records of Cheshire and found that a lot of 'Twigg' people use Holy Trinity Church in Runcorn, and I found the entry for your William Twigg to Florance Ashley.
BUt
when I checked the marriage of John to Eliza in 1877 I found that John was the Smetham and that Eliza was the Twigg, in which case you need to go back and double check your findings.
It seems most probable that the Twigg family like so many of the canal Boatmen and their families were shy of the law and did everything they could to hide from it, by not registering their babies or being on census or not getting married. You will probably spend the rest of your life walking the canal tow paths looking for them ......so join the club!! I have been a member now for 20 years!!!
Good hunting
Mrs Noah.
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Ok mrs noah
will wait to hear from you
cheers cardiff
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Hi guys
new to this,so you'll have to bear with me
i have 4 generations of boatmen in my family tree,by the name 'Wright', and all have links to Tipton, Toll End Road.
William Wright 1875-1918, Boatman, married Mary-Ann Bailey in 1892, Tipton
daur Bertha Wright (my great grandmother)
-Son of-
John Wright 1845-abt 1918 Boatman, Married Elizabeth Ralph (father John Ralph, Boatman)
John was born in Stanton, Derbyshire. Censuses show him living in Toll End 1881-1901
-son of-
William Wright 1823-1889 Boatman, Married Maria Currey Wagstaff in 1846, Tipton (Parents James Wagstaff and Mary Currey, Boatman)
William was born in Stourport in 1823, along with 5 other siblings,yet none are shown on familysearch.com- i have copies of baptisms.
Both are buried in Tipton Cemetery, Spent their later lives at Toll End again
-son of-
Thomas Wright and Sarah.....
This is where i hit my dead end.All 6 children are baptised in Stourport
John Wright, 1821
William Wright, 1823
Benjamin Wright, 1825
Sarah Wright, 1827
Elizabeth Wright, 1829
Samuel Wright, 1834
All are extremely patchy on cesuses, but i cannot get the wright line in Stourport any further back.I know there are another 5 Wright families Baptised in Stourport, But none are Boatmen, and none seem related.Can you or anyone else help??
If not, i hope some of the info i have collected can help others.Other Boatman names i have linked to my Wrights are:
Ashley
Ralph
Diggory
Beresford
Nixon
Whitehouse
Broughton
Hope i can help someone, even if they cant help me
thanx
Stuart
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Hello Stuart.
what an interesting messge, you have done so much research ...............
Can i get back to you when I have really read what you have written and give it some thought.
My family have connections with Lower Mitton as Stourport was called , and I know the frustration when you are looking for but cannot find a person.
Let me just digest your email and I will get back to you .
Mrs Noah or Canal Boatwoman.... not sure who I am anymore!!!
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Stuart Hello.
I am not going to be much help to you i am afraid.
I have read your email and digested all the names
Nixon I have come across in Wolverhampton and Whitehouse is a very common Midland surname. as for Wright. There are quite a family living in Cheshire in the Middlewich area but the other names are not familiar to me.
I too have Canal Boatmen who lived and had babies in Lower Mitton in the 1800.s I looked in the Parish Records that were/are held in the library there. I also went to Worcester and looked in their Parish Registers.
I think that the trouble with our Boatmen is that they some times worked the boats and some times had a job on dry land. Only the dedicated men stayed on the boats and it is them that you can follow up and down the system. Kidderminster is a good stopping off place to have babies and get married,, as is Compton using Tettenhall Church.
If you follow the cut up from Stourport you can drop off at a number of Churches on the way to Wolverhampton. alternatively you can branch off into the Birmingham Navigation and then get to Dudley where your and my famillies collected. especially at The Coppice and again at Worsley basin .............
I am sorry to say this, but if you are really keen you will be spending the next .........years trying to find your family. I have never used the internet for my research and did it all by foot and record office, which is very hard work but very interesting. The internet is a very isolated place to research people. useful as a tool but no more.
I am sorry that I cannot be of more use to you.
Mrs Noah /canal woman
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I have a Smith family That Im researching and I think I may have found a connection to another branch of the family but I am very unsure .
Can anyone help please ?
My gran was Sarah Smith Shown here . Can anyone tell me what boat they were on please ? Or what is really stumping me is The mothers Maiden name . My gran died in 1964 when I was little so I have no birth certificate and nearly all her children are dead .. Also is there a record of a Soloman dying youn drowning in a canla Lock ? That was the tale told in the family .
There may be a branch off one of the other siblings leading to Thomas Henry Smith and his family of boatmen We are trying to make a link . I am very short of money as I only work a 3 day week so its very difficult to do research atm
Here is the census with my gran on
Thanks Jean
Name:Sarah Smith
Age:9
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1892
Relation Daughter
Father's Name:Thomas
Mother's Name:Elizabeth
Gender:Female
Where born:Satley, Warwickshire,
Civil Parish:Soulbury
Ecclesiastical parish:Soulbury All Saints
Town:Soulbury
Count Buckinghamshire
Street address:Boats at three locks
Father's Occupation:Boatman on barge
Registration district:Leighton Buzzard
Members:Name Age
Annie Smith 22 born Bromley staffs
Edward Smith 13 born wednesbury staffs
Eliza Smith 7 born Birmingham Warwickshire
Elizabeth Smith 42 born Brentford Middlesex
Elizabeth Smith 5 born Birmingham Warwickshire
Lily Smith 2 bnorn Brentford middlesex
Mary A Smith 17 born Birmingham Warwickshire
Sarah Smith 9 born Saltley warwickshire
Solomon Smith 11 born Leighton Beds
Marriage registered for Sarah Smith and John W. Payton in Aston, 3rd quarter 1915 vol 6d page 1006
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Mrs Noah
My nanny Sarah Payton ne Smith had settled on land by the time I came into the world .. but I was her fav grandchild probably because I was a Smith in looks and ways . Well she brought me up . Shed have me sleep in her bed when I was tiny ,she used to sleep in her clothes .She used to swear loads and so did I as a 5 year old . But it wasnt wrong swearing it was her natural way . My memories of her taking me to bedworth to see the family are are sketchy but I really loved her and missed her even now . When she was 70 and I was 5 she used to live in Nechells brum .. she used to set off for a pub crawl taking me as a 5 year old and her little dog round the pubs she was a character but a bloody hard worker .
Thats why id love to find her family .
regards
jean xxxxx
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Hello Jean
I would love to help you if i could, but i am more familiar with the canal Boatmen in Cheshire .
Never the less.have you tried looking in the Parish Registers of Bromley ??? for the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth??? I say this because usually the first child is christened where the parents marry.
I know with Boatmen this is not always the case because they are up and down the cut but it might be a pointer for you.
Parish registers are available in record Offices and they will also have canal Boat registers if you are lucky. They don't cost money to join and are a wonderful source of information.
Have you looked in the free B/m/d registers here on the net? there might be your Grandmother s birth recorded and you could get a birth certificate, a copy would only coat you £7 and it would give you here mothers maiden name. [also if the child was born on a canal Boat it would give the name of it ,as place of birth ]
Research does not have to cost a fortune,, more it is time that costs the money. research well and you can keep your overheads quite reasonable.
Canal boatwoman/mrs Noah
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Jean. Thanks for the reply.
Cannot get the hang of this programme so am starting from scratch again!
I don't think you are soppy at all.and I hope that you are writing down everything that you can remember from when you were little and with your gran.
I have been researching my Canal Boatmen for over 20 years and I have taken ages to find just one birth or marriage............. so keep on going.
for instance
my Grand dad was born in 1877 on valentines day. I had no idea then just where he was placed in the family as I only found him on the 1881 census and there was no indication as to how many children had gone before him..........................5 years later yes 5 years i found his parents marriage ................1851 it has taken lots of research and leg work but i got there in the end. I just love my Canal Boatmen would have been thrilled to go back in time and meet them and ask them all about their work and how they became Boatmen in the first place. So many questions................. you are lucky you have a few answers.
Sallie///canal boat woman/mrs noah
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Hi Mrs Noah/canal woman
This is a long shot, but maybe you can help me. I'm looking for a Cheshire boatman who was recorded on the 1851 census as Joseph Lotheran, or Lothern, or may Letheren - the surname is so indistinct that it's difficult to decipher. He was born at Middlewich and his age is given as 'unknown' but what looks like '20' has been entered in brackets. Have you come across a canal family or individual with a surname anything like this?
My own forebear was a boatman named Peter Johnson, born at Barnton, Cheshire, in 1810. His wife was Mary Wardle. Some of their children were born at Sandbach, others at Stoke-on-Trent, and the youngest at Wolverhampton. I'm trying to find the baptism of the eldest child, Emma Johnson, who was born at Bucklow Hill, Cheshire, around 1834 - any chance you've come across this family?
Regards
- judijee
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Hello.
I have read your message,, and don't think i am going to be much help to you.
But here goes.
The 1851 census with your ancestor Joseph Lotheran...........you don't say which census you looked at?
i have looked in the 1851 census for Cheshire the volume 7 Northwich district.
There is one entry that resembles the name you are looking for LOWTHIAN is that the one you are talking about??
I have never come across the name..certainly not in the Middlewich area which is the area i am most familiar with.
Do you think it is a heard name and then spelt as it is heard ...which might be totally different to the actual name!
I have looked in my books and found one or two Johnson on the canals in the middlewich area and would be happy to send you the entries but there are NO Peter Johnson.
I have two entry for Sandbach St Mary.
1828
William Johnson OTP Boatman
Ellen Key OTP Spinster
By Banns
1 October 1828
Both signed x
Witness
Allan Condliffe signed
Elizabeth Moore signed X
1820 [St Mary Sandbach ]
David Condliffe OTP Boatman
Elizabeth Johnson OTP Spinster
By Banns
19 June 1820
Both signed X
Witness
John Higgins Signed
Elizabeth Sumnelle signed X
My canal Boatmen travell up and down the Staffs and Worcs canal and then on to the Trent and Mersey branching off to the Consall Canal....................they also have huge connections with the Oxford canal and the Birmingham navigation so in looking for your family you need to be aware of their huge range of travel.
Try going sideways and you might come across the answers you are looking for..
What ever ---- if you would like me to look in the Northwich area or Middlewich area for you I will.
kindest regards
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Hi there :)
Could you possibly let me have details of the LOWTHIAN entry on the 1851 Cheshire census, please? It may well be the same family as the Joseph Lotheran (?) I'm looking for - he's recorded on that census at Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs. I'm pretty sure the surname was written down phonetically - Joseph was almost certainly not literate, nor did he know exactly how old he was, so the Lowthian surname could very well be a match.
Thanks for letting me see the two Johnson entries.
- judijee
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Hi.
as soon as i can get to the library i will look for the entry for you and let you know what it says .
mrs noah/canal woman!
never to sure who i am !!!!
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Hello Mrs N and other interested parties, you have a similar line of inquiry to myself, and I am interested in finding more on the Tonks family. Whom I am related to .
I also have my own website for canal boat families, and am decended from the Harrison Green lines, with links to many of the other well known families. I would be interested in hearing from anyone with information on canal boat families, as I feel it is neccesary to get it all down in writing before it all becomes lost.
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Hello
How wonderful. I am a continuation of the Turton Family who worked the canal boats right from the begining in the Black Country............
although born in Wolverhampton and by then having only an uncle who was working the canals, I married and moved to cheshire where I have found so many connections with my family ... or should i say extended family. [why does everything happen when you are running out of time ...........]
How can I help you? what information do you have .......................what information do you want?
can we share?
mrs noah/canal boatwoman.
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Hello again so far I have information on 29 family lines mostly in the black country as that is where the green family settled and some still live in this area. Of course I want to share everything I have as it is imperative that it is saved for posterity. The boat meseum in ellesmere will be getting a copy of my files in due course and on my death will recieve all family documents and photographs. In the mean time I hope everyone will join in and add thier family lines to what I have allready.
I have come accross references to the turton family in my searches, but I also know that I have only dented the amount of families to be researched.
My website - http://canalboatmen.co.uk/
I do hope you like it
Gerald C
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Hi.
Thankyou for the message. and the link to your webb pages.
I need to look through them in detail.
The name that jumps out so far is willington.
It is my Susannah Turton that marries William Willington in 1824.
She is the daughter of my 3xGreat grandfather Joseph Turton who married Martha Grainger on 31st january 1795 1n Wolverhampton.
I am a dirct descendant of that man!!![pity i was a woman and broke the thread!!!!]
mrs N
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Yes I thought that may be your line.
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Hi.
Not good!
I remember many years ago going sideways on one of my lines...
Turton to Neale,[ Neale from Banbury on canals in Midlands too ] and in the process doing a lot of work on another family.
I must have been quite nieve but my work was taken and used without a bye your leave!...........and i had taken years of research to get that information!!!!
as probably like you I haven't used the internet for research but gone to original documents, record offices and the likes!!!!
but there again dont spoil what you have I am going to thoroughly enjoy reading your research..................
mrs n
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If you have anything on the tonks family I would be gratefull if I could see it as I am having a problem with an Aunt Bella Tonks, but I do not know if she is married or not.
GC
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Stuart I seem to recognise a lot of the names you have, please get back to me .
GC
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If you have anything on the tonks family I would be gratefull if I could see it as I am having a problem with an Aunt Bella Tonks, but I do not know if she is married or not.
GC
Hello.
The Tonks family are not very well represented in Cheshire..........
I have found a marriage of a John Tonks to a Martha Smith in St Micheal and all Angels Middlewich in 1887
and 2 marriages in Odd Rode
Selina Tonks to George Escourt in 1905
John Tonks to Rachel Done in 1907.
but my research has not thrown up any more connections.
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I have some "Mitchell" Canal strays I collected somewhere.
I saved them by accident while I was looking for my Gt-grandads family - I think they are around Manchester.
I will try & post them tonight
Gaille
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Hi canal woman
When you were wearing your Mrs Noah hat on your posting of 30 November you mentioned the name Archer in connection with Kidsgrove (I'm fairly new to Rootschat so have only just caught up on this). I have a Thomas Pyott and Ann Archer witnessing a marriage at St Thomas's, Kidsgrove, on 26 May 1876. The groom was boatman William Mountford and the bride was Sarah Ann Guest, nee Johnson.
Just thought this might be useful :)
- judijee
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Hello Jean
I would love to help you if i could, but i am more familiar with the canal Boatmen in Cheshire .
Never the less.have you tried looking in the Parish Registers of Bromley ??? for the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth??? I say this because usually the first child is christened where the parents marry.
I know with Boatmen this is not always the case because they are up and down the cut but it might be a pointer for you.
Parish registers are available in record Offices and they will also have canal Boat registers if you are lucky. They don't cost money to join and are a wonderful source of information.
Have you looked in the free B/m/d registers here on the net? there might be your Grandmother s birth recorded and you could get a birth certificate, a copy would only coat you £7 and it would give you here mothers maiden name. [also if the child was born on a canal Boat it would give the name of it ,as place of birth ]
Research does not have to cost a fortune,, more it is time that costs the money. research well and you can keep your overheads quite reasonable.
Canal boatwoman/mrs Noah
Hi Mrs Noah what a lovely name :)
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply . Well I think I am going to go spend an afternoon down Birmingham library when I go down to visit my mum , Thats probably the best way for me :) Theres only on of my Grans daughter left alive .. Auntie Lilly in Scotland and I shall also try to get her to talk again . She has dementia now and things don't come out all that easy :)
I think the problem is that I am scared that I don't get the right Sarah Smith and send for the wrong certificate . Its very odd because she is still alive in me .. as she brought me up I have a very strong personality and hard work ethic . Mum says If I look in the mirror I would see my nan . I can see her now in her pinny and her grey silver hair and her old-fashioned boots . I suppose this will not bring her back sadly . Its a shame people move on to another world .
Best wishes Jean xxxx
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Mrs Noah is after a Canal Boat that one of my ancestors had called Noahs Ark... and I was so amused by it that I decided to call my self mrs Noah... but then I forgot who i was and had to re-register and so I became Canalboatwoman!!
Don't be afraid to get the certificate.
Think how pleased you will be if it is right.
If it is wrong at least you can illiminate that person from your research.
Oh...people do move on .but do you not think that they sometimes want us to look for them and they nudge us along... I really do believe that our ancestors want us to look for them ...................
Birmingham is a place too must visit before long ..............oh there is so much to do ..............................
talk to you again soon
Mrs Noah !!! etc
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Ill reply and then leave you in peace awhile . Well i love your name :) Yus brum has changed beyond recognition sadly altho they have cleaned up the cut and it is now a trendy place to be .
I agree with you about ancestors , I am a very spiritual person .. not so much religious .
My gran died when I was 7 and I am 53 now .. she said she would be looking over me through my life and yes .. I have been lucking in life and love and she has been there watching over me .. I firmly believe this :)
A little tale .. My mum and dad refused to come to my wedding years ago because I wanted to get married up here in Halifax .. his brother my Tncle Tommy was disgusted and made the effort to come up here alone to see me wed . ( They were Nanny Sarahs sons)
Well they are both dead now and years after a huge split happened in Uncle Toms family full of divorces and bitterness . Anyhow last year I found Uncle Toms Grandchildren ( via Genes re united ) and was able to re unite them with the family again .. and in a way I feel that he wanted that and its payment back for his Kindness to me all those years ago . Uncle Toms Great Grandchildren both boys are the spitting image of my dad :) so yes .. my nan used to say 'what goes around comes around'
She was right wasnt she :)
Ok Ill leave you be .. Im a chatter box . best wishes and I will go do that research .
Jean :)
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Jean
Just love it all.
you are priceless..............................catch up with you soon i hope
Mrs N
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Hi know its a bit over due but I've only just registered with roots and noticed the posts on the Tonks, I have recently discovered that they are related to me via my grandmother Selina Asbury her father Edward(not Edwin as I noticed in one of the posts) married Nancy Tonks in 1918
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Welcome to Roots Hope you find some connections on here with your Boat Family.
Have you any idea which canals they travelled on ?
places they liked to stop at??
Churches they had their babies christened at?????
Can you trace your
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Hi would anyone have any information on George Jacques who is listed as a canal boatman/porter on the 1851/1861/1871 census in audlem/stoke barbridge cheshire? I have been unable to find a birth or marriage certificate for George and his wife Elizabeth.I have contacted Spropshire archives who have also failed to find his details.They have told me that if he originated from a "canal family"(which i'm not sure if he did or not) i will have trouble finding his details as he may not have been baptised in Wem Shropshire where the census says he was born circa 1816 due to the familys moving around alot. I cant see where i can go from here with this family if i cant find his birth/marriage certif.In 1871 his son Reuben Jacques was working as a clerk in the canal telegraph. George later ran a Grocers shop in stoke.Any ideas where i go from here? Thanks .
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Hi , do you think this could be the marriage for George and Elizabeth?
George Jacks to a Elizabeth Price in 1843 at Chester St John. as I see their daughter Ann was born a year later in Chester.
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi
regards
Cathy
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Wow thanks for that. I didn't have them on the 1851 census, i had actually put that in error.But when you came back to me with the name Jacks, i searched the census and there they are !! and it the correct family aswell. I can send for the certificate now. Thanks so much for your help. Why the name change do you think? I know its pronounced the same and easy to spell wrong but still.....?
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Hi , this could be the family in 1841
H0107/927/10 Shrewsbury St Mary
Spring Gardens
the image is quite hard to read.
Ann Jacks age 55 born in County Yes
John Jacks age 35 Boatman born in county Y
George Jacks age 20 looks like boatman born in county Y
Henry Jacks age 4 born in county Y
best regards
Cathy
PS looks like Ann the Mother died in 1858
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/deathind.cgi
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That would be brilliant if it was the same family ! Guess i'd have to order the marriage certificate and see if georges fathers name is listed on it to double check .Im ever so grateful for your help!
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Hi Jean
Bingo!! I think you are probably related via your Gran Sarah Smith to my wife Mavis . She was born 28 January 1940 in Floodgate St Birmingham to John Ernest Ringham ( boatman)and his wife Sarah Elizabeth nee Payton. Sarah Elizabeth was the daughter of John William Payton ( boatman)b 8 May 1888 and and Sarah Smith ( your grandmother). Sarah was born on 21st April 1892 at Duddesden Wharf , Birmingham and Warwick Canal, daughter to Thomas Smith ( boatman) B 1858 and his wife Elizabeth nee Daniels B 1859. We have a copy of Sarahs birth Certificate. To date we only knew of two of Sarahs siblings; Hannah b 1879 who married Thomas Webb (Captain of President) and Mary Ann b1883 but I have just heard, via Lorna York, of the following others; Thomas, Soloman,Edward,Eliza, Elizabeth and Lilyb 1899. Lorna is sending me the details.
If this connection rings true with you we would love to make contact . I am happy to give you our email (*)
Looking forward to hearing from you
Brian
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Thanks moderator. As a Rootschat virgin this was my very first attempt at a consummation. Will quickly try to come up with 3 postings; does this one count?
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Hi Jean
I have posted a couple of responses now to your February enquiries. Hopefully this will now bring my total up to the required number 3 and allow me to contact you with a Personal Message. Whisly Payton and Smith are two of my main lines of research I have also gathered canal families information, almost exclusively the Midlands , Birmingham, Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottingham. Families include Daniels, Edwards,Faulkner, Hammersley, Nightingale,Nixon, Price,Ringham, Stokes, Webb.I am happy to share the info with others.
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We have now established that my SMITH family - George and Solomon, George Henry, Thomas etc - are also related to Jean's and BandM's Smith family so we are getting somewhere!
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keep getting all your messages but have no idea who you are talking about .share please!!!!
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hI and sorry for any confusion
This began with a request for info relating to Sarah Smith b 1892 into a Midlands canal boating family descended from Thomas Smith b1858 and the Payton boating family descended from James Payton b1859. We have now established that Sarah had nine siblings George Henry. Hannah,Thomas, Edward,Eliza,Elizabeth, Lily,Maryand Solomon.
George Henry married Sonia Rolt, Hannah married Thomas Webb. Sarah married John William Payton and their daughter Sarah Elizabeth married boatman John Ernest Ringham . their daughter Mavis is my wife. Her uncle Harry is the father of Jean Grahame. Jean was the chat enquirer seeking a link so it's all ended happily with cousins reunited!
The Smiths and Paytons are inter connected ( so far)with the following other Midlands boating families; Webb, Edwards,Price,Daniels, Stokes,Nightingale, Nixon and Faulkner.
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Hi Canal woman and all .
Just to back Brian up in here because of roots chat and a lot of perseverance real progress has been made in the telling of the Smith /Payton Boating story I also would like to add Samantha to this who has been working hard on this too . She had her part to play and brought the Price family also famous Boatsmen into the story and George Henry Smith and Much much more .She is yet another lost cousin .
This is in itself a remarkable tale . So many thanks Roots Chat it would have been even more difficult without you .
Best Wishes Jean
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A Big Thankyou.
How wonderful to have managed to tie all these families together and link so many folk.
I have an Edwards in my Family married into the Turtons, perhaps I need to reserect him and see if he fits into the scheme!!!!
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Has anyone any info re.Job Allen c 1815ish.
He wed an Eliza Whitehouse in 1842 at Dymock Gloucs-both Job +his father Thomas were boatmen as was Eliza's father Richard.
possible death in 1853 at Ledbury age 40,apart from marriage I have no further info.
My interests..Gloucs-Hereford-Staffs-Worcs
Whitehouse +Hodgetts
associated by marriage
Shaw
Williams
Asson
King
Fletcher
Kent
Pooler
Smith
Woodward
Possibly a Webb connection.
Jackie
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Thankyou for your kind comments Jean. I am not sure about the Price connection though!
Can I also just confirm where my Smith family fall in - as BandM has 2 George Smith's mixed up! They did keep the same names after all!
Sarah's brothers George Henry and Solomon married sisters from the Statham family. They are mentioned in the book Ramlin Rose by Sheila Stewart.
George Henry Smith and Hannah (nee Statham) had a few children including my Grandfather and his brother George Smith. This George Smith was married to Sonia (then Smith) - who later went on to marry author LTC Rolt - so became Sonia Rolt and wrote a book called A Canal People with lots of photos of the Smith family in by Robert Longden as well as having lots to do with founding the Waterways Museum.
This should give enough information for any other cousins to get in touch!
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Hi All
I am trying my best to research my family and boatmen play a large part in it My Grandmother born in 1895 in Tipton was the daughter of John Godfrey ( boatman) and I have managed to trace back from there three generations. This is where I get stuck. In the 1851 census I have the following:
Thomas Godfrey 37 boatman
Sarah 37
Maria 11
Jane 5
Elizabeth 7
John 3
James Wm 9 Mo
Living in Ladywood Birmingham
I have been trying to move to the 1871 census to find further information regarding Thomas and Sarah but come to a dead end. I looked in the BMD and I found death notes for both of them in 1866. The question is was there an accident about that time or could there be another simple reason. Of course I might be barking up the wrong tree, so any advise would be useful.
I was born and raised in Tipton and lived opposite Burnt Tree Primary school
in Whitehouse Street where I spent my formative years.
My Interests
Humphries
Jones
Turner
Godfrey
All of Tipton
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Have you seen this website?
http://www.glamorganfamilyhistory.co.uk/maritime/81Intro.html
Its a list of ships/boats in port on the night of the 1881 cencus - may also be of use to anyone who has 'lost' foreign sailors in the family, there are a lot of foreign nationals listed - I saw Spanish, German, Swedish, Italian, American nationals there, as well as Irish, Scottish & Welsh, IOM, and Channel Islanders, and I only had a quick look-see thru it last night!
I was sent it yesterday as it lists on of my family surnames on one of the ships.
If you go from the various counties there are a lot of Canal boats and the families that lived on them listed in the various ports (there were quite a few in Cheshire area)
There isnt a search engine as such on the site that I could find, but the control + F search does work on the individual pages.
Gaille
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many thanks for the link.
will enjoy having a look!
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The Elizabeth Ralph that you mention sounds like the sister of my GG Grandmother. Elizabeth was the daughter of John Ralph, boatmand, of Tipton, b. 16/4/1837 (died 1881-91), and Mary Ann, nee Astley, n Dec 10th 1839 in Castle Place, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire (died 1905).
My father was named Ralph after the family connection.
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Dear Stuart
I think my reply "The Elizabeth Ralph that you mention sounds like the sister of my GG Grandmother. Elizabeth was the daughter of John Ralph, boatmand, of Tipton, b. 16/4/1837 (died 1881-91), and Mary Ann, nee Astley, n Dec 10th 1839 in Castle Place, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire (died 1905).
My father was named Ralph after the family connection." was a bit confusing, and I apologize.
In fact there are two Elizabeth Ralphs that might fit.
The older Elizabeth was born in c1835.
Her parents were John Ralph, born c1905, place of birth "not known" and Elizabeth, also born approx 1905 (give or take 5 years, I guess). I do not know either set of parents. He was described as a "boatman" in the 1841 (living at 5 Wharf St, Shelton, Stoke on Trent) and 1851 (living at 12 Lower Green, Tipton) censuses.
Their children were (ages estimated from censuses):
Joseph c1830
Lucy c1832
Elizabeth c1835
John 16/4/1837-bef 1891
Anne c1840
William c1843
Samuel c1845
Mary c1847
Thomas c1851
John Ralph the son married Mary Anne Astley (1839 to 1905) on 20/10/1859
They were living at 5 Wharf St, Shelton in 1871. In 1881, Mary Anne is living in Graces house, Ellesmere Port, described as a Mariner's wife - no John. in 1891 she is a widow.
Their children are
Elizabeth b1854
Sarah Ann b 1860 (my GGrandmother)
Eliza 1867
David 1870
Mary Jane bet 1873 and '76
Isaac 1876
As you may guess, I have much more to learn about this branch of my family. I should be glad of any further information.
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Hi,
I have enjoyed reading this thread very much. It has made me wonder if my brick wall could have been a boatman.
I cannot find George Richard Cooke born 1858/9 in Hall Green, Cheshire this comes from the 1881 census he also claims to be born in Odd Rode.
It is the possibility that his father also called George Cooke (from George junior's 1880 marriage certificate) could have been a boatman that has crossed my mind. George senior was deceased by 1880. George junior was not a boatman and I can follow him from 1881 right through to the 1911.
So if anyone has any Cookes please get in touch,
Thank you,
Abiam
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hello mrs noah
i am from the harrison line of boat people. do you know of the hale boat family?
the only ref i can find is that 3 out of 4 children(my gran included) where all christened in braunston, my great grandad was called robert hale.
regards
jeannette smith
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Hmmm, is this thread still active?
I've been trying to pinpoint whether I have Romany links in my tree, and in the process I have uncovered some mariner/boatman connections. I really don't know too much about canal men, nor which canals my ancestors frequented, but I do know that they often appear to reside in Milton by Sittingbourne. Here are some more specifics:
William Chapell b. 1803 in Milton is listed as a mariner in the 1861 census. His wife is Sarah Sillis b. 1813. Their son, James Chapell, b. 1842, is listed as a brickmaker. He later marries Emma Smith (b. 1847 in Hoo, Kent), daughter of George (b. 1812, Hoo) and Harriet Smith (b. 1816, or so, in Stoke,) and I believe her brother, George Smith b. 1839 Hoo is listed as a boatman in a later census... (at least one of the Smiths was.) He also lives with a mariner, Benjamin Redshaw, in the 1871 census.
Does anyone have any links to boatmen near Milton/Sittingbourne, or know which canals run by there? Also, do you know if there is a link between brick moulding/making and boats? Because a few of the same people in my tree have been listed as both.
Any help would be much appreciated!
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmm indeed this thread is still being used, and i know that a lot of people look at it to see if by any chance their folk are mentioned.
To be honest with you I have no idea about Kent or any canals in Kent.
This thread started because people researching Canal Boatmen found that the only way to find their folk was to chase up and down the Canals, and as the main body of Canals is in Central England it helped if we kept our eyes open and then passed on information....................
When you talk of Mariner/Boatman
I have the feeling that you are probably talking about men that went to sea.
I might be wrong,, but living near to the sea ,it is more than likely that your ancestors were Sailors....................
The Canals were the inland sea and they were Canal Boatmen that used them.
As far as Brick moulding goes .pass..................have no idea.................
If the Smith born in 1816 was the daughter of a Canal Boatman then you would need to research the Trent and Mersey Canal............... see what Churches there were along thebanks and see if you could locate any more of the family and then bring them up to the 1841 census..........where there would be reference to the mens occupations.
To be honest I think you need to do a little more research into the structure of the family and then branch outwards ................ it would be more rewarding to do that.
Mrs Noah.
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Thank you very much for your reply! Yes, I wondered if mariner meant they actually went out to see rather than up the canals. I'm Canadian and not so clear on English geography, so your comment on that was helpful. Thanks for the tips! I have for the most part been structuring my research on the family, rather than the mariner occupation, but I thought I follow this avenue too.
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:) I'm looking for a William gibbons boatman marred fanny James in 1918 William born runcorn Cheshire farther and mother was thomas and Hannah
john
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Hello John.
Thankyou for asking me whether i had any information about William Gibbons and Fanny his wife.
I am afraid i do not have anything very exciting, but
2 pieces of information which might be of help to you.
From BMD on the internet
Thomas Gibbons married Hannah Marshall in the June Quarter of 1895 at Runcorn
and from information I recieved from the Boat Museum in Ellesmere -port many
years ago I see that a Wm Gibbons was the master of a Flat boat 'Fannie' in 1947. The boat was owned by R and Abel.
if your William was on a flat boat then he was not a Canal Boatman and as such I cannot help you any more.
You need to speak to someone that is researching Flat men...who mostly were on the River Weaver.
Good luck with your research
Sallie
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i have put some warwickshire deaths in warwickshire section some of the people on the list were canalboatman
kerry
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Thanks kerry.
Will have a look!
Sallie
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Hi i'm wondering if anyone can help me please- I have my gg-grandfathers marriage certificate from 1873 in stoke-on-trent, and his father is named as Thomas Hibbetts-occupation Boatman. Has any one come across this name at all as I cant find him on any records!- thanks
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Hello.
Can't be of much help i am afraid.
The name is not one that jumps out of the page.
But
Have you looked in the 1871/61/51/41census for the area?
Your GGG grand father might not have been a boatman in earlier census. 0r
he might not have been a Canal Boatman?
or he might have come to Stoke on a canalboat from the Midlands or London or Oxford. etc.
What you must realise is that Canal Boatmen did move about quite a bit, and although they had certain places that they called 'home' they were forever on the move!!!
Try and find Thomas Hibbetts marriage certificate... that might help you.
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Hi anyone with any info on the Wood boat family?
I have some info but there's quite alot of gaps between 1790 and 1870. Any help appreciated
Thanks,
Christy
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Hi.
which Wood family and where from????
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The furthest back I have is Thomas Wood who marrid Lois Daniel and then Hannah Somner (round about 1790-1810).
The I have a gap until Benjamin Wood (1835) who married Harriet Harrison in Jan 1856.
But I also have Thomas Wood (another one), born in 1869 who married a Hannah Blackhurst. So i'm a bit confused and could do with the gaps filling in because one of these trees is obviously not directly related to me.
They're all from the Staffordshire/ West Midlands area.
I don't know if that made sense.
Christy
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Hi.
my great grandmother was Eliza Wood and she was born in Worsley about 1834/6
she had a brother called benjamin. she had a lot of brothers and sisters.
The reason i asked which Wood family it was is because there are Wood families on the canals here in the middlewich/stoke on trent area!
I think I need to look under the stairs tomorrow and get back to you if I find anything............................
My Wood married a Southall........................[the christian names escape me! ]
ps, family history never makes sense not until you make a connection and then you are so pleased you move on and start the process all over again
Sallie
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hi christy i have tree for thomas and lois just let me know what you need
kerry
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Hi Christy.
My Great Grandmother was Eliza Wood. she married John Turton in Wolverhampton in 1851.
She was baptised in July 1832 and her parents were Henry WOOD and Esther SOUTHALL. He was a Canal Boatman of Bugpool.
They in turn were married in Oldbury near to Dudley.
Sallie
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Thanks so much, that's helped piece it together a bit more lol
Christy
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Glad to be of use. but you don't say if the people are connected??
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They should all be from the same Wood family but I'm not sure whether they're directly related or are cousins, uncles etc. That's what I'm trying to find out.
Christy
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Hi, I am looking for info on Henry Jones 1893/1896 Cheshire, father Thomas Jones 1850 Tipton...Thomas is shown as either master or captain boatman...Thomas was married to Elizabeth (maiden name unknown) could have been his second marriage with the first being to one Ann E (maiden name unknown) in 1907 he is shown as being the captain of the canal boat "BEECH" on the marriage cert of one of his daughters Sarah Ann Jones to an Edward Bannister of the canal boat "SWINDON" all are from the Black Country area and worked the canals around Liverpool, Derby, Rochdale, Warwick, Runcorn ect....I have henry's marriage cert, death cert and army records and medal cards, but no birth cert that would help me with his mother Elizabeths maiden name.....s there anywhere I can get info also on the boat Thomas and Henry were on? now I know the name of the boat is it any easier to trace? could there have been more than one boat of that name with different companies ect?....many thanks for any help....Paul
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hello jonha
having a look through my records of historical boats the only beech i could find was orig a felows morton & clayton fleet no 328(now in private ownership)if you google morton & clayton historic narrow boats club it has a little detail on it. do you have a hilda harrison who was the second wife of a ted bannister i think they married in the 50s both of canal famlies if so they appear in my tree i have 3 relatives who are closer linked than myself, kerry if you are reading this no doubt you have more info than me on the banister side.
jeannette
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Hi Jane,
thanks for your reply, had a quick look at the Morton and fellows site and that looks like the right boat, the info I have so far on the Bannister side is as follows...
Edward Bannister age 23
Sarah Ann Jones age 23
At the parish church of st James, Wolverhampton
on 25th December 1907
Edward of the canal boat "SWINDON"
Sarah of the canal boat "BEECH"
Thomas Bannister father of Edward
Thomas Jones father of Sarah
all were canal boatmen..
Marriage witnessed by
Richard Hillman
Elizabeth Bannister
Children of this marriage were
Louisa Bannister 1909 Hanley Staffs
Susannah Bannister Sep 1911 Rochdale Lancs
Edward Bannister Dec 1913 Rochdale Lancs
Elizabeth M Bannister Sep 1917 Rochdale Lancs - Mar 1918 Rochdale Lancs aged 0
John H Bannister Dec 1918 Rochdale Lancs
1911 Census Edward and Sarah were both off the boats
and living on Walton St Castleton Rochdale along with their fist child Louisa and Sarah's mother Elizabeth Jones (widow) aged 52 and Henry Jones (my grandfather) aged 16
Sarah's father Thomas Jones had died sometime between 1907 and 1911, place unknown.
I have just located Sarah A Bannisters grave in Rochdale and I am setting off now to view the cemetery records, she died aged 37 in 1921 Rochdale......
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hello jonha
having a look through my records of historical boats the only beech i could find was orig a felows morton & clayton fleet no 328(now in private ownership)if you google morton & clayton historic narrow boats club it has a little detail on it. do you have a hilda harrison who was the second wife of a ted bannister i think they married in the 50s both of canal famlies if so they appear in my tree i have 3 relatives who are closer linked than myself, kerry if you are reading this no doubt you have more info than me on the banister side.
jeannette
Hi again Jeanette,
Hilda Harrison married Edward Bannister in Rochdale Oct 1953, not sure if this is Edward or Edward Jnr though....Probably Edward Jnr as senior would have been in his very late 60s by 1953..
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hello jonah 777
thats great news im not sure how far down hildas line you are but to give you some clue hildas grandad samuel & my g grandad james where brothers they where v close & often worked the same boats together, in my records i have from my father going back 5 generations all canal boatmen
jeannette
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jonah777
sorry forgot to mention have e mailed hildas living relatives will pm you with more details as you cant post info on living people here
jeannette
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jonah
when ted (edward bannister) married hilda he was widowed with three growing children they then had another child together i know at least 3 are all alive & well. was with some at braunston boat festival a couple of months back
im at present searching through my stacks of my info files because im almost sure that bannisters & harrisons are connected again somwhere along the lines (most boat
people only married into their own kind)
jeannette
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Does anyone have any links to boatmen near Milton/Sittingbourne, or know which canals run by there? Also, do you know if there is a link between brick moulding/making and boats? Because a few of the same people in my tree have been listed as both.
To respond to Midnight Rambler back in January: It is most unlikely that your Sittingbourne descendants were canal boatmen, as in Kent they are a long way from the canal network. However it is quite likely that they worked on Thames sailing barges, as they were very common in the Sittingbourne area transporting goods all over the Thames and Medway estuary area, and particularly bricks from works such as that at Conyer to London - much of the Victorian and Edwardian expansion of London used bricks made in the Medway area.
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Hello,
How do you know where to start looking with canal families. My mothers maternal side of the family were boat people many years ago. I've been able to trace my great grandmother(Hannah Prudence Jones born 12/5/1872 at Etruria Wharf,Shelton,Stoke on Trent)parents Abel Jones-boatman and Sarah Jones nee Jasper. I found the marriage cert of these in 1864 in Dudley and Abels father is George Jones-boatman whilst Sarahs father is John Jasper - banksman? I can't find them(Abel&Sarah) in either the 1871 or 1881 census and Hannah Prudence is only found in 1890 when she marries before dissapearing from the 1891 census. Would it be common for boaties not to register. I would like to find them and their named barges someday but where to look I've no idea.
Regards
Brian. :-[
Oh wow - I am hoping that this can help me trace 'my' Abel Jones! My GG grandfather was George Samuel Jones, born 16 Apr 1892 Leabrook Rd Tipton, parents Abel Jones boatman & Catherine Mary Bennett (her name's wrong on the birth cert though). Haven't been able to trace Catherine or Abel, though i've found Catherine's family up to the 1901 census, when her sister Lucy Buller (nee Bennett) was looking after him. My dad says he thinks that George's parents pretty much abandoned him at a young age and he was brought up by his aunt. This is the biggest brick wall on my tree!!
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Hello Jennebel
Welcome to Rootschat
Have you found the marriage of Abel + Catherine, the certificate would give Abel's fathers name and occupation.
What was Catherines's surname on sons birth cert?
Jackie.
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On the birth certificate, she's listed as Mary Ann Jones, but she was definitely Catherine Mary (have found her as Catherine Mary Bennett with her family on a census return). Haven't been able to find a marriage though, hence a massive brick wall. I know the family mentioned on this post don't appear to have a son named Abel, but everything else matches up, and not all births etc were registered for canal boat families.
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Hello,
How do you know where to start looking with canal families. My mothers maternal side of the family were boat people many years ago. I've been able to trace my great grandmother(Hannah Prudence Jones born 12/5/1872 at Etruria Wharf,Shelton,Stoke on Trent)parents Abel Jones-boatman and Sarah Jones nee Jasper. I found the marriage cert of these in 1864 in Dudley and Abels father is George Jones-boatman whilst Sarahs father is John Jasper - banksman? I can't find them(Abel&Sarah) in either the 1871 or 1881 census and Hannah Prudence is only found in 1890 when she marries before dissapearing from the 1891 census. Would it be common for boaties not to register. I would like to find them and their named barges someday but where to look I've no idea.
Regards
Brian. :-[
Oh wow - I am hoping that this can help me trace 'my' Abel Jones! My GG grandfather was George Samuel Jones, born 16 Apr 1892 Leabrook Rd Tipton, parents Abel Jones boatman & Catherine Mary Bennett (her name's wrong on the birth cert though). Haven't been able to trace Catherine or Abel, though i've found Catherine's family up to the 1901 census, when her sister Lucy Buller (nee Bennett) was looking after him. My dad says he thinks that George's parents pretty much abandoned him at a young age and he was brought up by his aunt. This is the biggest brick wall on my tree!!
DId you manage to fine any ionformation I am alos trying to chace the descendants of George Samual Jones 1892 -1971 who married Alice Hough 1892-1974
George is may Great Grandfather
Regards
ian
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Hi Ian - I think you're my dad's 2nd cousin (Barrie) - George Samuel junior was my grandfather (who was your grandfather?). I've got quite a lot of information on our family tree (apart from this branch). I'll send you a message with contact details! Look forward to hearing from you :)
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Members of the Buttress family worked the canals between Oakamoor (Staffs) and Oldbury and Liverpool throughout the 1800's; the ones on the Liverpool run later became known as Butters. I can find William Buttress (b.1835) and his wife Elizabeth (b.1836) (not to be confused with William and Harriet who were of similar ages) at Oldbury in 1851 and 1861 but can't find them again until 1901 when they left the canals and appear in Hanley, Stoke-on-Trent. They only had one child, William James (b.1876) who again I can't find in a census return until 1901.
Can anyone help?
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Hi Potteries,
Welcome to Rootschat.
In 1871
RG10 Piece 3692 folio 121A
transcribed as Watvess
No 30 Canal Boat in Runcorn Cheshire
William Buttress age 33 married boatman canal born Etruria
Elizabeth Buttress age 32 wife born Wolverhampton
Cathy
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In 1881
RG11 Piece 3792 Folio 94 page 23
In Warrington transcribed as Bathess
105 Catherine Street
William Buttress head married age 43 Pudler in Ironworks b Eutruria
Elizabeth " wife age 43 born Bushbury Staffordshire
William Jas son age 5 born Shelton Staffordshire
Cathy
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1891
RG12 Piece 2152 Folio 11 Page 18
Audley
Under the surname Butters
Grocers shop Queen St
William Butters Head married age 53 Grocer and Gas Stoker born Hanley
Elizabeth Butters wife age 53 shopkeeper grocer born Wolverhampton
William James Butters son single age 15 shop assistant born Shelton Hanley
Clara Sherratt servant single age 14 dom general servant born Stoke on Trent
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Many thanks. I had come across the 1891 entry before but wasn't sure as they had no connection with Audley and there is no canal there. With regard to the other two census returns I thought that I had tried all variants of the name but wouldn't have thought of the recorded surnames in a hundred years.
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Re Abel Jones - boatman
I have been trying to find Abel via Emily Jones b1912 (Salford), George Samuel Jones b1893 (Leebrook Staffs) and then Abel b c1838.
I have found Abel (boatman) with Sarah (Jasper) and 4 children in 1871 Census. Also marriage to Sarah in 1864 with Abels father George Jones boatman. Also found George Samuel Jones b1893 - father Abel and mother Mary Ann (but probably Catherine Mary Bennett) I have not been able to find Abel in any other Census, remarriages or death. Nor his father George Jones boatman.
I have found references to an Abel Jones boatman in 1875, 1878 and 1881 but cannot link my Abel to these. In 1875 an Abel Jones boatman (regents Canal) given 18 month sentence for unlawful assault and causing actual bodily harm. In 1878 Abel Jones boatman accuses 2 men of theft from his boat at Etruria. In 1881 at Runcorn an Abel Jones boatman given 1 month for theft.
Looks like this Abel could be the same as yours so hoping you have found similar info/tie ups to my Abel. Any help would be appreciated
Les Hawke
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Hello Les
and Welcome to "Rootschat"
Can we start with "your" Abel.... birthdate/where ? .....marriage?.found on census.?
If anything like my boatmen..buggers to track dowm!!!
Jsackie
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Hi guys,
I'm new to this site (came across it looking for something else!) I'm trying to find out about my dad's mum's family. Been doing it for years but keep drawing a blank. If I tell you I once asked my dad how many brothers and sisters he had and his reply was '11 or 12', perhaps you will understand.
The family version is 'granny' was married to a Mr Ward before she met grandad and she had 2 boys by him. Thing is her maiden name was Ward!!!! Her mother's name was Cartwright.
My theory is John Ward worked the canals, the Trent and Mersey goes through Stone, Staffs. As there is no record of a Ward/Cartwright marriage, perhaps it was an 'informal arrangement'. I did find mention of a Ward family in West Bromwich with connections to the canals.
PLEASE does anyone know of a John Ward or Maria Cartwright in the Stone area, on or off the canals? Grandma was Mary Elizabeth Ward, 1885 - 1946(?)
'Strays on the canals' might just fit the bill!
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sent you a message westfield :)