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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Pauline42 on Wednesday 15 February 06 20:06 GMT (UK)
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My granddad was in a ship sunk probably about 1941-1942 by a german U boat. He was then interred at Marlag U Milag POW camp prisoner no. 321, He was repatriated May 1944 because of Age and Ill health.
According to his Navy service record, he was serving on the Pembroke, but I can;t find a record of its sinking on the internet. He spent quite a while in the water before he was picked up, (I have attached photos of his rescue by the Germans) and apparently exchanged christmas cards with the captain of the U boat until his death in 1959.
I am really struggling to find anything about the ship sinking, exactly when, where etc.
any help would be very much appreciated.
Pauline
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Hi
Looking on the net, it appears that HMS Pembroke was the Naval Barracks at Chatham in the 1940's so your grandad must have been posted from there to another ship
http://www.burrill12.freeserve.co.uk/RNB/HMSPembroke.htm
Hope that is of use
Happy hunting
Chris
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Hi,
I know his port division was at Chatham. I also know that there have been Ships called HMS PEMBROKE as well as the Chatham base being called PEMBROKE. - this site is very interesting thank you
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Hi Again,
I have just been comparing information from his service record with some info about the HMS Aurania, which was the last name mentioned before the PEmbroke. The Aurania was torpedoedo on 21 October 1941, which was the last day he was recorded as been on that ship.
Maybe this was the ship he was on when he ended up in the sea, and was taken prisoner......
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He is mentioned here.
http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ops/ships.cgi?boat=123;nr=23 (http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ops/ships.cgi?boat=123;nr=23)
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1177.html
Kev. ;D
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Wow!!!!
You've brought tears to my eyes. As far as we knew the ship he was on was sunk - but this tells the true story I suppose.
Thank you so much
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Pauline!
I just wanted to say - thank you for sharing your pictures and the story of Bert !
Annie :) :)
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Glad to help Pauline and Annie is right its a great story ;D
Kev.
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I just thought this might add to the story. Bertie is middlerow, Left, with a beard. The back of the photo has his POW no. and the camp (Marlag U Milag ) Stamp.
Thanks again for your help
Pauline
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Hi,
I know his port division was at Chatham. I also know that there have been Ships called HMS PEMBROKE as well as the Chatham base being called PEMBROKE. - this site is very interesting thank you
Hi I have been reading your entries re HMS Pembroke .. she sailed from Chatham Kent I have my Father's Papers he served on this Ship in 1941.. Have a picture of him with sone shipmates ..the Ship you want was serving during WW2 not sure if she was sunk or not.. but I have documentation re the ship. :)
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What a great topic, just to add the pennant the uboat is flying is a victory flag with tonnage sunk during that patrol.
James
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Hi,
I know his port division was at Chatham. I also know that there have been Ships called HMS PEMBROKE as well as the Chatham base being called PEMBROKE. - this site is very interesting thank you
Hi I have been reading your entries re HMS Pembroke .. she sailed from Chatham Kent I have my Father's Papers he served on this Ship in 1941.. Have a picture of him with sone shipmates ..the Ship you want was serving during WW2 not sure if she was sunk or not.. but I have documentation re the ship. :)
Could you please send me details of the ship please as my wife is trying to find out about her dad who was on this ship.
Thanks for any info.
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I have my father's Naval records in front of me and it says, Pembroke - OrdSea - 4 Dec 43 - 6 Jan 44.
Later on the record it has Pembroke again - Able Seaman - and two dates in the same box, 4 Feb 44 and 20 Sep 44 - but only one 'end date' 20 Aug 46. My father also said he was sunk in the Mediterranean Sea at some point on, '647 gunboat'. There is a book somewhere about the boat, which I will look for now when I can and there is also a photograph of the boat that I come across now and again and put away again. I also have photographs which my father will have taken, of the crew of 647!! There are lot's of photographs in his album with the names, 'Flash', 'Bob', 'Jock Petts', 'Jock Canavan', 'Bud Abbot' and 'Mickey Mouse 64th'. Another has a few people on it and it says, Flash, Steve, Fred, Coxs, Jock. I have just looked through the album further and there are many, many more 'photo's and names, to be honest, too many to go through ay 2:09 in the morning, I will try to list the names, but some of them are very hard to read. One thing though, there is a photograph of a mine that was a dud, after much shooting trying to set it off, it was nicknamed 'Tinky Tonk'!! There are references to Greece and Yugoslavia and a photo of '566 being towed by us'. Hoping I can help someone, somewhere, See you later. Morskaj
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For the Timescale of WW2 There was no RN Vessel named HMS PEMBROKE.
As well as barracks in Chatham, under various names PEMBROKE I to PEMBROKE X they were nominal accounting bases which personal were attached for the purpose of pay etc
It a little more complicated than that but to make it clear
No one sailed on a ship called HMS PEMBROKE simply because there was no such "ship"
morskaj
I think you should put your post here
http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41
I am sure it will be well received.
I can find no evidence that MGB 647 was sunk, as far as I am aware she was scuttled at Malta in 1946
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Scuttled?
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Deliberately sinking a ship.
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HMS Pembroke was definitely landbased and I think it was a training establishment. I have a photo of my Uncle in his HMS Pembroke Uniform, but letters written later in 1944/45 are from the HMS Artifex . I had wondered why the name on his cap in the picture differed from the ship he sailed on, but I think the picure is from when he first joined, hence the link with training.
HMS Artifex was the new name for the Aurania after it was repaired from the torpedo attack and converted to a support ship. See wikipedia, where the sole survivor's capture/rescue by the German crew is mentioned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Artifex_%28F28%29
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Hi,
I know his port division was at Chatham. I also know that there have been Ships called HMS PEMBROKE as well as the Chatham base being called PEMBROKE. - this site is very interesting thank you
Hi I have been reading your entries re HMS Pembroke .. she sailed from Chatham Kent I have my Father's Papers he served on this Ship in 1941.. Have a picture of him with sone shipmates ..the Ship you want was serving during WW2 not sure if she was sunk or not.. but I have documentation re the ship. :)
Hello Laverty, was reading with interest yr message re HMS Pembroke, my father served on this ship from March to Nov 1941 and he told me that he sunk two uboats. I would be very interested in seeing picture and document re the ship, I also have my father's records.
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Hi folks, i have only just joined & this is my first post. While looking for info on Hms Berkeley, sunk during operation jubilee (the Dieppe raid), on 19-8-1942, The site i was using was www.naval-history.net, looking for casualties info. I noticed that ther were casualties for Pembroke (2 deaths) & Pembroke11, (6 deaths),also operation jubilee, so unless Germany bombed Chatham at the same time i think there were boats of that name, off Dieppe on that date. Dave.
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Hello and welcome,
Please see reply #13 from Seaweed. Just to confirm there was no seagoing ship called HMS PEMBROKE or HMS PEMBROKE II.
PEMBROKE was a shore establishment in Chatham and PEMBROKE II was an accounting base. Just because a seaman was noted as a casualty at sea belonging to PEMBROKE simply means he was detached from PEMBROKE [the accounting base] - often the actual ship he was attached to is not always named.
Regards
Hugh
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My father was Tommy Gospell and was stationed at HMS Pembroke between 1939 and 45. He was on HMS Pelican torpedoed, and lost at sea. MOD sent a telegram to my Grandmother with the bad news, to be followed by another telegram the next day from my father to say he had been picked up by a fishing boat, and was due home on leave!! Has anyone got any further info on HMS Pelican?
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Hope this helps: http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4004-13APR04.htm
The ship was not torpedoed but was bombed during the Norwegian campaign. There were about 57 killed.
Sloop PELICAN, en route with a Naval Base Party (under the Command of Captain C H Champness) for Molde, was attacked by two German Ju.87 bombers at 1350 in Romdalsfjord in 62‑49N, 4‑20E . She was badly damaged after a bomb hit caused the detonation of her depth charges. Lt Cdr H R Thompson of the sloop, Cdr A A F MacLeish (ret), Lt Cdr H N C Webber, Paymaster Lt E F Burkitt and Boatswain H Howell of the Base Party, and forty seven ratings from both units were killed, and Lt A A F Talbot of the Base Party wounded. The uninjured members of the Base Party were put aboard steamer ST SUNNIVA, which escorted by destroyer SOMALI proceeded to Molde for fuel. The wounded were put aboard destroyer JACKAL and sloop FLEETWOOD. Steamer ST MAGNUS was coaling at Aalesund, while destroyer JAVELIN was standing by. JAVELIN was then attacked by four German Ju bombers in Heisse Fjord but was undamaged.
JACKAL and ST SUNNIVA departed the fjord at 0500/23rd for Kirkwall, while PELICAN was towed by FLEETWOOD and escorted to Lerwick by JACKAL, SOMALI and sister ship TARTAR joining them at 1930/22nd. Tug ST MELLONS came out from Lerwick and tug BRIGAND was detached from destroyer HOTSPUR's convoy. While screening PELICAN, JACKAL attacked a submarine contact at 2307/22nd in 62‑44N, 03‑48E. She also attacked a contact at 1524/23rd. SOMALI (D.6) arrived at Scapa Flow at 0600/24th, and PELICAN, in tow of ST MELLONS at Lerwick at 1000/24th.
JACKAL and TARTAR proceeded from Lerwick and arrived at Scapa Flow at 1500. On 2 May at 1020, PELICAN left Lerwick in tow of BRIGAND and escorted by destroyer WANDERER to Rosyth. They were diverted en route to Sheerness and arrived in the Nore at 2200 on 5 May. PELICAN was taken to Chatham for repairs lasting until 3 December 1940.
Regards
Hugh
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HMS Pembroke was definitely landbased and I think it was a training establishment. I have a photo of my Uncle in his HMS Pembroke Uniform, but letters written later in 1944/45 are from the HMS Artifex . I had wondered why the name on his cap in the picture differed from the ship he sailed on, but I think the picure is from when he first joined, hence the link with training.
HMS Artifex was the new name for the Aurania after it was repaired from the torpedo attack and converted to a support ship. See wikipedia, where the sole survivor's capture/rescue by the German crew is mentioned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Artifex_%28F28%29
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To Swardale - my father was a dentist on HMS Artifex from mid-1944 until early 1946. The only document which I have relating to that period of his naval service is a 'Crossing the Line' certificate on HMS Artifex dated 28th January 1945 when she left Ceylon on route for Australia. You mention that you have your uncle's letters from his service. Do you have any information about the movements of this ship for this period.
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The movements of HMS ARTIFEX for the period you suggest should be in the following piece at the British National Archive.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8307036&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
For a more detailed view, her logbooks for the period 10/May/1944 until 31/July/1946 are also in TNA in series ADM53
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?fldResultMarker=1&fldSearchNumber=183636&SearchInit=1
As far as I am aware you cannot view these documents online, so a trip to Kew would be your best bet.
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Thanks Seaweed. Unfortunately the reference of 183636 for the HMS Artifex log books at TNA series ADM53 does not seem to exist.
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Sorry still useing the old Catalogue, try---------
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=artifex&_sd=yyyy&_ed=yyyy&x=43&y=23
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Interesting thread...so lucky to have those photo's Pauline! How special!
I happened upon this thread because I was hunting info down about men from the HMS Pembroke. I was thinking about buying this photo and trying to find the family these men belonged to. They look like brothers to me and the were on the HMS Pembroke...I like the way they have positioned themselves so one hat reads hms the other Pembroke.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=586644009&cc=61&pid=264901944&hbc=1&ct=image
Thought someone might find the photo interesting.
Cheers
Sarndra :D
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My Grandad was in Pembroke aswell. His name was Albert Percival. We cannot find any records and have no photos of his time in the War. Sadly hes no longer with us and we have no photos what so ever of him :(
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For the Timescale of WW2 There was no RN Vessel named HMS PEMBROKE.
As well as barracks in Chatham, under various names PEMBROKE I to PEMBROKE X they were nominal accounting bases which personal were attached for the purpose of pay etc
It a little more complicated than that but to make it clear
No one sailed on a ship called HMS PEMBROKE simply because there was no such "ship"
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My father was also on HMS Pembroke between 1942-1946. We had a picture of the ship on our wall and he used to say how it had been almost cut in half by a u-boat. Still trying to find exactly where he went but naval records not clear. His name was Arthur Leonardi, he was 18. When he signed up and I also have his medals wish I could get more info.
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Welcome to Rootschat, If you read the entire thread
For the Timescale of WW2 There was no RN Vessel named HMS PEMBROKE.
As well as barracks in Chatham, under various names PEMBROKE I to PEMBROKE X they were nominal accounting bases which personal were attached for the purpose of pay etc
It a little more complicated than that but to make it clear
No one sailed on a ship called HMS PEMBROKE simply because there was no such "ship"
[/b]
If you could post a copy of the picture you have, maybe some one can identify the ship.
WW2 service records are still with the MOD
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
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Hello seaweed, all I know about my fathers time in the navy is what the ministry of defence has sent to me in a letter. I managed to get replacement medals that were lost years ago. They told me the only ships and shore bases recorded were Royal Arthur and Pembroke. He was a stoker but they said war records were sparse and incomplete. So I have to bow to your knowledge.
Got his service number but not had much luck so far.
The picture of the ship was mislaid when my parents split up in the early 60s.
Thanks ladymary