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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: B.E. on Sunday 19 February 06 15:28 GMT (UK)
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My wife's grandmother was Gladys Maude Green when she married Walter Martell Snook at South Stoneham in October 1928.
She was about the 57th child of the fecund Charles and Mary Green (OK, I exaggerate, but they do appear to have been able to put out at least two football teams every weekend!) and was born in 1903. Not sure how to tie down her parents from the 1901 census records and dig any deeper.
Any ideas, O super-sleuths??
Cheers,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Have you ordered her birth cert?
December 1903
South Stoneham
2c 65
With a little luck, the address and father's occupation should help you identify the couple in 1901.
Unless you know the names and ages of a few of her elder siblings...
Tanja :)
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Tanja,
The short answer is no - the plan is to find out what I can from freebie means until there's enough meat to start shelling out for the actual documents!
If I don't get anywhere on this one, though, I may have to change my strategy just to get kick-started...
Cheers,
Brian
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I have spotted a few possible Charles' with wife Mary and several children. Was already going to list them when I noticed there were plenty more with 2nd initials. Err... I gave up. But as you may know, the 1901 census is currently free to search at www.ancestry.co.uk ;D
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Was Charles Green's occupation given on the 1920's marriage cert?
1901 can be searched by occupation at the (GR/GC)-owned site.
Pauline
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It looks as though Charles Green was a plasterer and may have lived at 255 Manor Farm Rd, Bitterne Park in the early 1900s.
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It looks as though Charles Green was a plasterer and may have lived at 255 Manor Farm Rd, Bitterne Park in the early 1900s.
What document/evidence has given this address? (so that it can be accurately dated).
"Early 1900's" is too general really
Pauline
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The occupation came from the 1925 marriage certificate (I assume old Charlie didn't keep switching jobs!) and the address comes from mother-in-law's memory. She believes that her mother was born there in 1903, but I don't know whether this is true or whether the family were already there by the time of the 1901 census. I'm hoping you might be able to use searching mechanisms to which I have no current access.
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But you do have access....
www.ancestry.co.uk has the 1901 free at the moment.
Addresses can be at least confirmed as listed at http://www.1901censusonline.com/
where you can also search by name and occupation.
Pauline
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Thanks - I'd previously tried the census search on ancestry (and failed to find the family). I'll give the other one a go when I get time...
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Managed to get hold of Gladys Maud(e)'s birth certificate now and can see that her mother was formerly Mary Elizabeth Maggs. They all lived at 7 Manor Terrace, Manor Farm Road, Portswood in 1903.
Has free access to the 1901 census now disappeared on ancestry.co.uk? I've been busy for a few weeks but don't appear to be able to get to the same information as previously.
I've managed to locate the marriage between Charles Green and Mary Elizabeth Maggs in Oct-Nov-Dec 1887, but nothing else of obvious significance. There are entries for Charles Green and Mary Elizabeth Green in the 1891 and 1901 censuses, but I can't tell whether or not they were in the same household or how many children they had at those times.
The 1881 census (ie: before their marriage) isn't helping much either. There's a Charles F Green at 4 Cooper Street, Southampton and a Mary Maggs at 53 St James St nearby, but I'm stretching it a bit to claim they're our people. But if not, where are the real Charles Green and Mary Elizabeth Maggs from somewhere (I assume) in the Southampton area??
Any help from those of you with better census access would be much appreciated.
Cheers,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
You're right - the 1901 isn't free anymore.
How do these look? 8)
1901
RG13/1068 9 9
Portswood (South Stoneham) Hampshire
7 Manor Terrace
Manor Farm Rd
Charles Green, head, 45, Plasterer, b. Hants Southampton
Mary Elizabeth, wife, 34, b. do.
Charles, son, 13, b. do.
Lucy Elizabeth, dau, 10, b. do.
Ellen Rosina, dau, 8, b. do.
William, son, 6, b. do.
George, son, 5, b. do.
Arthur, son, 1, b. do.
Tanja :)
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Tanja,
Brill. That's 'em! It also proves that Charles F Green isn't my man from 1881, but Mary Maggs is still a possible...
Keep going!!
Cheers,
Brian
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1891
RG12/918 125 31
Southampton St Mary, Hampshire
23 Melbourne Street
Charles Green, head, 35, Gas Stoker L&S Co?, b. Southampton
Mary E, wife, 25, b. do.
Chas, son, 3, b. do.
Lucy E, dau 6ms, b. do.
Tanja :)
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Gold dust! Not a bad career change that: gas stoker to plasterer!!
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There is one matching Charles I can see in 1871 - I just throw him in, up to you to prove or disprove him.
1871
RG10/1189 120 27
Southampton St Mary, Hampshire
Standford Street
William Green, head, 45, labourer bricklayer, b. Wilts Salisbury
Betsey, wife, 40, b. Wilts Winterslow
George, son, 19, Plasterer, b. Wilts Fresherton?
Mary, dau, 17, b. Hants Southampton
Charles, son, 15, scholar, b. do.
Martha, dau, 13, scholar, b. do.
Betsey, dau, 11, scholar, b. do.
Amy E, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
Walter H, son, 5, scholar, b. do.
Martha, dau, 3, b. do.
Tanja :)
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1871 looks possible - certainly a lot better than my original version.
Found a possible birth record in the BMD index for Charles Green Jan-Feb-Mar 1856 (Southampton) 2c 31.
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1871
RG10/1188 56 12
Southampton St Mary, Hampshire
8 Princes Street
Ephraim Maggs, head, 30, Labourer, b. Haxon Wilts
Roda Eliz, wife, 29, b. Chisenbury? Wilts
Isaac Eph Smith, son, 9, scholar, b. Northam Southampton
Henry Jno?, son, 7, scholar, b. do.
Mary Eliz, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
Edward Chs, son, 3, scholar, b. do.
Emily, dau, 5ms, b. do.
Tanja :)
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Excellent! The Maggs side is starting to look good now, though I note that old Ephraim appears to have remarried between 1871 and 1881. You can't find a death record for Roda Eliz in there anywhere maybe? Or marriage in the same window to Sarah?
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Marriage
December quarter 1880
Southampton
Ephraim Maggs
to either Sarah White or Georgina Caroline Dymott
2c 44
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Wife looked like Roda Eliz on 1871 but this looks very much like the marriage (given that Ephraim Maggs is not a current name and that there is a 'Smith' son):
Marriage March 1862
Southampton
Ephraim Maggs to either Elizabeth Smith or Sarah Burnett
Tanja :)
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Ephraim dies in June quarter 1893 Southampton age 54
2c 4
I can see him in 1891 - would you like the details?
Tanja :)
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Fits the bill nicely. We'll provisionally take Elizabeth Smith followed by Sarah White then... Good work.
I'm not getting much work done at the moment, but this is far more interesting!
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The more the merrier on Ephraim. Yes please to the 1991 details.
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1851 :D
HO107/1844 29 12 & 13
Fittleton, Wiltshire
Haxon Village
Daniel Maggs, head, 56, Farm Labourer, b. Fittleton
Mary, wife, 59, b. Netheravon?
Elijah, son, mar, 25, Farm labourer, b. Fittleton
Jane, dau, unm, 21, Labourer, b. do.
Levi, son, unm, 17, Labourer, b. do.
Martha, dau, unm, 14, scholar, b. do. - deaf
Ephraim, son, labourer, 10, b. do.
1891 to follow :)
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(I'm not getting much work done either ;D )
1891
RG12/918 110 2
Southampton St Mary
9 Standford Street
Ephraim Maggs, head, 51, Plater USCoy?, b. Salisbury
Sarah, wife, 51, b. Hants Beaulieu
Ellen, dau, 17, b. Southampton
Arthur, son, 16, Milk boy, b. do.
Florence, dau, 13, b. do.
William, son, 9, scholar, b. do.
Charles, son, 6, scholar, b. do.
Amelia, dau, 6, scholar, b. do.
Tanja :)
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Death March quarter 1878
Southampton
Elizabeth Maggs age 36
Volume 2c page 1
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Great stuff once again! I'm liking the facts that:
(a) Ephraim was already a labourer at 10 years old
(b) Jane sticks out as the only child with a non-biblical name
Thanks,
Brian
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Yup, it's all still fitting nicely. The census record for 1881 shows William & Betsey Green (but not Charles!) at 5 Standford Street, while Ephraim & Sarah Maggs were installed at number 9, next-door-but-one, by 1991. Small world? Cheap baby-sitters? Except that Charles and Mary and their two kids are now at 23 Melbourne St!!
Did it all get a bit too claustrophobic in Standford Street, d'you think??
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;D ;D ;D
I can't really spot Charles for sure in 1881.
Anything else missing? (err... I don't DO Smith's! ;) )
Tanja :)
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1. Do you reckon there's enough evidence to be reasonably confident that the Charles Green who married Mary Maggs in 1887 is the same chap who lived with William and Betsey in Standford St in 1871?
2. Anything on a marriage between William Green and Betsey c.1851 to give me a clue on Betsey's maiden name?
3. Any way back to a previous generation of Greens? Early censuses?
Cheers,
Brian
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Sorry to say I think we don't have enough evidence at all as far as the Green's are concerned :-\
They are likely but you unless you invest in the marriage cert, you won't know...
Tanja :)
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In 1851, William and Betsey are already married, living in Fisherton Anger Wiltshire:
1851
HO107/1846 447 15
Fisherton Street
William Green, head, 25, Pork butcher & shop keeper, b. Salisbury
Betsy, wife, 22, b. Winterslow
Sorry, I don't have access to 1841.
Tanja :)
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Possible marriage:
June 1850
Salisbury registration district
William Green
possible spouses:
Martha Newman
Betsy Shears
Hannah Sims
Emma Street
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Tanja,
Super stuff once again. It seems perfectly plausible to me - even to the extent that the career move from pork butcher in Wilts to bricklayer in Hants is almost to be expected!!
Thanks for all your help.
Cheers,
Brian
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;D ;D
I'm not swearing it's the same person but he does look good, doesn't he?
Tanja :)
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Hi Brian, you may have already found the post that I did regarding Daniel Maggs.
I have now found this string of posts and have worked out that I am your wife's second cousin. I come from Florence May Green, born 1902, Charles Green's previous child to Gladys Maude Green.
Tanja's suggestion of Betsy Shears looks spot on to me. I have just done a search on the 1851 census and found other Shears in living in Winterslow.
Brian G
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Ephraim's first wife was Rhoda Elizabeth Smith whom he married 23 March 1862 at St Mary's Southampton. They already had a son Isaac Ephraim (also found as Ephraim Isaac).They had 7 children and Rhoda Elizabeth died the first January 1878, one week after the birth of her youngest child Ada Florence. Ephraim remarried 22 November 1881 to Sarah White (nee Willis) They had 2 sons William Willis Maggs(1882 -1917) and Charles George Maggs(1884-1945).
Ephraim was born in Haxon, near Fittleton Wilts on 14 August 1840, Rhoda was born in the nearby village of Enford on 29 April 1841. I am descended from their son Arthur Albert(1875-1935) Hope this helps. I have lots more. Janet
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Hi Brian, Me again. I'm new to Roots Chat so I'm ploughing my way through the threads. Mary Elizabeth Maggs married Charles Green in 1887 but prior to that she had a daughter Amelia in the Southampton Workhouse in May 1884. In the Hants Advertiser of 11 March 1885 there is a report of George Bellinger admitting paternity for Mary's child. I know that Amelia died of Spanish 'flu in 1917, leaving a young family. Regards Janet