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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Skipworth on Sunday 26 February 06 07:41 GMT (UK)
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At least that was the address in the 1871 Census. I can only find an image on a postcard on the web and would like some info on the building.
Thank you.
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You will be able to see where it is on a map at www.streetmap.co.uk put in Wellington Road and choose the one for Wallasey. I think if you use Wallasey as part of the address for googling you might have more luck. At least I suspect the house is still there,
"Cubbin Recently, James Cubbin, MRPharmS, of "Rock Villa", 56 Wellington Road, Wallasey, Merseyside CH45 2NF. Mr Cubbin registered in 1952. " from the Obituaries in the Pharmaceutical Journal in 2002.
There is a nice site being set up about New Brighton http://emit.demon.co.uk/walrus/magsprop.html#intoduction with an aerial shot of the area, difficult to pick out Wellington Road but maybe possible.
I wonder if you might find something if you approached the Chester Archives, they may have old Planning documents etc. http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recoff/home.htm
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Thank you Mary for all your info and links. I had found an old ordinance map with a link to a modern aerial view and there seem to be a lot of trees at the site but couldn't see any buildings. I will follow up your advice.
Thank you.
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I had fun looking for maps for you.
Try www.old-maps.co.uk and put in Wellington Road, choose the Wallasey, Merseyside one and when it comes to the individual names just choose any of them until you get the map, then click on "Enlarged View" and it opens up larger in a new window. Look at the coastline to the north until you see Red Noses and Yellow Noses (must find out what these are named for - unless just the shapes of the line of the coast) and in between these just on the land you will see Rock Villa named.
Now go to http://maps.google.co.uk/ and put in Wallasey, Click on "Hybrid" and it will give you the names of the roads, Wellington Road is a touch further inland that I thought it would be so maybe some of the river has been reclaimed, and I imagine that Rock Villa must have been near the west end of it, which looks a little bare on that satellite picture, although there are some buildings just before the end of the road. If you have GoogleWorld I would imagine you might get an even better look.
Do you know New Brighton at all yourself? Back in 1871 it would have been quite the "Brighton" of the north west with many attractions, the tower, said to be patterned on the Eiffel Tower, France, and it's ballroom, wasn't built until 1896 though.
It has always been a favourite day trip from Liverpool with the trip on the "Ferry Cross the Mersey" with the Fort and Lighthouse to see, the open air swimming pool would have been later but a major attraction from about the 1930's onwards until 1990 when it was forced to close due to damage caused by bad storms. It also has a history of smuggling, google for Old Mother Redcaps, I should think you would turn up something interesting.
This is another site which will have some good details for you to get an idea of how the place was, not just the house itself. http://www.merseyside.net/newbrighton/
Mary
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Gosh you have been busy Mary. Thank you so much. I really love this aspect of researching my family tree. I have used the old-maps uk site and agree that originally the homes were closer to the water.
Skipworth
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Todays Street Map
Deleted map,no longer needed
Celia
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Hi Skipworth
Sorry its so big but you would not see wellington road if smaller.Its a long road, and it will give you some idia of how the land lies today.Have put a bracket top left. Hope this might be of use to you. As the map is large and only of interest to you. If you print it out, i can then delete it,so the page will load quicker. So let me know on here when you have done so. ;)
Celia
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Celia, Hi! you might know the area better than I do, but have looked on www.old-maps.co.uk and saw Rock Villa at the end of Wellington Road. Are you able to compare from your knowledge whether it would have been on that part printed on your map or would there have been a further bit of road going to the west?
Mary
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What knowledge
the only thing i know about these villa's is that they have been there forever.According to snippits i heard when younger . They were called Rock villas because they are built on rock bed ,or is that bed rock?. They were built high on a rock the back facing the sea.Which came up to the rock.because they hadn't built the prom then. That information came from the library ( read a lot). As a Matter of fact i have just remembered,i have a small copy of a painting done in the middle 1800.It shows the villas on the rock with the sea below. The fort in the distance and the light house nearby.children playing on the beach in the forground.Where maybe the place they call the red noses is now. I have to tell you i am now in contact with skipworth. I got interested in the houses and want to research them myself.
Celia
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Skipworth
Front page news
I now found i did find the right house but forgot it was on a hill.Thats why i thought it was wrong as it was to small.
The news is i have found the information/History on all the Villa's.Including Rock. The information mentions you Family. Have also found loads of interesting movement in the directories.
Gotta go Celia
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Skipworth (Mary)
Changed my mind about rushing of again in search of more info.To tired and to late anyway I got a bit exited,on your behalf and went a bit mad ;D. Have decided apart from very private and off topic stuff (photo's and that) i will put the information i find on here.To keep Mary in the picture,more or less ;D. so she knows whats going on.Also as i now know where to obtain the History of all the Villa's.Someone else might be interested.I spent a couple of hours going through the directories, from 1862-1886. Do you know of anyone else that might be interested in your family? Can't remember which year it was now,but in one of them some very naughty person has marked one of the reference to one of your Peers. With red Biro marks, 4 times.I was annoyed with that :( Thats not the done thing with genealogists is it. When the weather clears up i will take trip down and take a proper photo of the front and back of the villa and some surrounding area's. Must now go and get my finding typed up. So will leave you with some reading material in the meantime. (will scan it now)The picture is what looks like a copy of an old Black and white one,because it doesn't look like that now.Back later
Celia
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Not allowed to leave this empty ;D
Photo removed
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ROCK VILLA WELLINGTON ROAD
In 1837 William Rowson sold off one of his portions of land, amounting to 2,120 Square yards and ejected to the Cliff estate, to Peter Greenall, Brewer of St Helens. It is not clear whether Rowson or Greenall built this house on the land, but right from the start it was known as Rock Villa, and it is of course still standing today and still possessing the same name. Peter Greenall,
Who used the house as a summer residence, was a man of considerable importance. In his own area. He was the grandson of Thomas Greenall, who founded Greenall Whitley’s St Helens brewery in 1762
It goes on to say quiet a lot about The brewery and Peter Greenall so will skip that those bits
Following Peter Greenalls death (18th September, 1845) “Rock Villa was occupied by a variety of tenants, during the next thirty years, including a cotton broker, a cotton spinner a merchant and Ship owner, and even a clerk to the borough magistraits,, but 1875 marked the arrival of the Peers Family in the person of James Peers, also a cotton broker, who was the forunner of what was to turn out to be a forty year connection with the house. He was the father of George Hunter Peers.The founder in 1878; of what is now the Peers club in St Georges Road, a justice of the peace, and a man who persuaded the Wallasey Local Board to purchase Cental Park after Harold littledales death in 1889. He also went down in history as the man who demolished the mill on the breck, replacing it with a residence; well know for nearly eighty years as “Millthwait”
And as the father of Hugh Peers, Local historian of note. The reign of the Peers family at Rock Villa came to an end shortly after the finish of World war 1 .The next occupant being Mr. C.R. Marples a well known Liverpool cotton broker,who spent some years there,to be followed by Pat athern,a well known Wallasey commission – agent and the wallasey sea cadets, who used the house as their headquarters for a while.In 1959 “Rock Villa was purchased by Mr. Norman Kingham, the Architect, including the caves under the dwelling formed out of soft stone of the red and yellow noses., Access to these cave which still exist, at one time was from the shore, before the promenade was built but today is by way of steps inside a manhole within the garden of “Rock Villa” The house itself originally had Gothic features but owing to past neglect and was damage.All of these have been lost and replaced with more modern styles which has altered its character.
Note the book this came from was printed I think in the 60’
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I'm enjoying what you've found out Celia, I too was in touch with Skipworth but more about sites where she can read up local information, you seem to have a lot more about the house itself which is great. I found it was actually mentioned on old-maps.co.uk, but that was all.
VERY naughty of somebody writing in ink, pencils only allowed!
I look forward to hearing more of this story you two ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lots of luck with it
Mary
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At last i have got the info up have spent al evening and more trying,if all else fails ,Re-print ,copy and paste. will have to but the old photo upstair now.
Celia
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What a lovely surprise at all the info - Thank you so much Celia for the grand effort :)
Don't like the red biro - how naughty.
My family will be delighted with the history.
Thanks again.
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Some More
Cheshire Directories
1886
Peers George H. Cotton broker (J.P.& son’s)” Rock Villa” 1 Wellington Road
James “ “ “
1885
Peers George H. “ “ “ “
1884/82/81
Peers James W “ Wellington Road (Portland Street)
`1871
Peers James Cotton broker Wellington Road (Constitution Hill)
1870
Peers Jas. Cotton Broker “Rock Villa” Wellington Road
Office. 17 Mellor’s Building, 30 Exchange St. E.W
1868 As Above
1865
Peers James. Cotton Broker Liscard Road Egremont
Office. Britania Building 12, Hackins Hay.
1864 No Wellington Road in this one, might be under different name but
Peers. James Cotton Broker liscard Road Egremont of 7,Tithbarn St
1862 As Above
There is also a William peers Cotton Broker, 15 Esplanade Waterloo and son cotton broker Old Hill.
Celia
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You are a brick Celia ;D
Nearly as clear as mud Celia ;D ;D ;D
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Darn it, i have just lost the post explaining the picture :(
Have to do it again.
Photo removed
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Hi Skipworth
Well first of all on my first flying visit to locate the house I couldn’t find the villa, where I thought it was, because the numbers ended At 40 something. Then I though it was another one but thought it was too small, I was looking for a much larger house. I then decided it must have been demolished, but couldn’t really believe that because from what I remember being told years ago. All the Old houses on the sea front were listed building. Portland Street Runs down the middle of Wellington Road, down onto the prom. I had crossed Portland Street and walked right to the end of Wellington road, past a block of modern flats an old house and a pretty cottage. Then was cut off by The Cliff, the high rise flats seen on the map. I was stumped. However with the information from the addresses I got from the directories, the old photo of the house, an old picture I have of the rock before the prom was built, and the lay of the land (which hasn’t changed from the rock up) I got loads of clues to work on, so it being a beautiful sunny morning I spent a nice couple of hours armed with camera and determination retracing my steps. Forward from number 4? To work out where 57 would have been. I did, I had passed Rock Villa twice, on the other side of the road. It was the pretty white cottage, Flanked by the two larger building, that I didn’t take much notice of. I have now taken some photos of the front of the house, but because it is private I don’t think I should put them on the net. If the owner happens on them I might be in big trouble, ;D so I will send them to you plus some views. I had to go on the prom to take the back views, the security that end is like fort knox even the gates into the mini golf course are locked. I can put some up though, so back shortly.
Celia
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This one is taken from the prom the lower house in the middle is yours
Both the photo's are the backs of the houses.The fronts are half the size
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This one is the other end of Wellington Road, Don,t they look impressive. The fronts are smaller but backs spill down the rock they were built on.
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Thank you Celia :-*
It looks as though it was a lovely sunny day but was it cold.
I am so pleased that the house is still there - I think it would be a great place to live. I would imagine the view from the rear of the house would be fantastic. A marathon effort on your part! It certainly bring's family history alive to see where one's ancestors lived - especially the actual house ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
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Oh I've enjoyed your adventures Celia, and the great shots of the house too, well done. Yes it does look like a lovely day, typical of what we've had over the last week, blue skies and bitingly cold, until today when we now have a fall of snow a couple of inches deep.
Just to round off your places, both Hackins Hey and Esplanade, Waterloo are on the Liverpool side of the river. Waterloo isn't a place that I would expect them to have their offices if they live in West Derby, but that's not to say that I'm right. Hackins Hey is different, this will be a small road, almost an alley nowadays shortly before you get to the Town Hall when heading down Dale Street in the direction of the river. Put it into www.streetmap.co.uk and it will bring up the map straight away since it would seem that it's the only one in the country.
Again put in Waterloo and change your search from "Street" to "Place" and find Waterloo, Merseyside down the list. It'll show you the area by the Marine Lake and although The Esplanade doesn't seem to be named, I would expect it to be near there. Come to think of it, maybe their offices were there because of the vicinity of the docks.
Try this site - http://www.antonygormley.com/ if there office was still there, this is the beach as they would see it today ........ strange isn't it? I took a trip down there last summer to see them, so very weird and people keep putting clothes on them. I've mystified you now haven't I? you'll have to go and look ;D ;D
Mary
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Mary - what an interesting web site and what unusual sculptures - he seems to be obsessed with the human form. I could well imagine some people would like to dress them ;D
Cheers
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Now you've got me, I have no idea about Old Hill, don't think it would be Old Hall Street anyway. Where did you get the name from? I don't see it down that list from the directories, could it be Low Hill? Low Hill is now just a small street near the bottom of West Derby Road, but was once what the area was called including the Necropolis cemetery (now Grant Gardens which until a couple of years ago was opposite Brougham Terrace, the main Register Office and so a popular place for wedding photographs to be taken)
Yes Waterloo could be both residential or could be storage, nowadays it's the site of the Port of Liverpool and also has a large wind farm there too.
Can I suggest you try another forum for some of these more specific Liverpool/Waterloo queries, I trust Rootschat isn't going to object to me mentioning the more specific Liverpool FHS forum as opposed to here which is more general Lancashire, since I know one or two of the people on there live/used to live not far from that area and one in fact is writing a book about the houses in Bootle, not too far from Waterloo and she may be able to give you some hints about where to look for any further research you might want to do into the buildings. http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/
Somebody on that site also has old streetmaps and may be able to help with Old Hill.
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I just noticed one of the addresses Celia mentioned in the trade directories was Exchange Street E.W. which runs down the side of the Town Hall, behind which is a square called Exchange Flags. I don't specifically know the name Mellors Building, the one to the left, or West, is called Martin's Bank Building or Martins Building, so it may be the one to the east or then again it could be on the far side of the square. So as you will see from the map, it's quite close to Hackins Hey, only a couple of roads to the west and running parallel.
The other side of the square is Rumford Street where the Western Approaches are, this is the World War II secret headquarters which were so secret they were only discovered a few years ago and opened up to the public as a museum - very interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/localhistory/journey/underground/western_approaches/history.shtml
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Yes Mary I will refer the queries to another forum. The topic has sort of grown like topsy ::) I have become quite familiar with the layout of the streets around Rumford Street since I started researching the cotton brokers in the family.
You ask where I got the name Old Hill from - it is the last line of Celia's post on the info from the directories.
There is also a William peers Cotton Broker, 15 Esplanade Waterloo and son cotton broker Old Hill.
I thank you and Celia for all your help.
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Hi Skipworth
Thank goodness you have Mary to give you information on Liverpool,i haven't got a clue about whats where now. So not much use asking me about it, i used to know every street and ally when i worked in Whitechaple. I was meant to be sending you the photo's of the villa last night ,but got sidetracked ::). So will send them shortly.
Celia
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There is also a William peers Cotton Broker, 15 Esplanade Waterloo and son cotton broker Old Hill.
I'll get my glasses changed ::) ;D ;D
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Cassie
I have just sent you four Photo's of the house,the best photo's i have taken for age's.( i usually take one of my thumb as well ;D) Certain times of the year you have to take photo's (when the suns out ;D) at a certain time of day. So I did, hope you like them
Celia
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Received the photos and once again a big thank you.
You are an excellent photographer :) It is wonderful to have the history and the older photographs to enhance the family story.
Cheers for now.