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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: rosemaryag on Thursday 02 March 06 22:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Thursday 02 March 06 22:09 GMT (UK)
I am hoping for some level-headed advice please ;D  I am very excited as this looks like a brickwall is falling for my NEVILL family, but I am confused.....

I have just discovered some potential family (NEVILLs) on the IGI, but their places of birth/marriage are given as:

'Ockbrook, Holloway, London'
(this is from a user-submitted form, batch 6020750)

So, very excited ;) I googled this - but am coming up with places in Derbyshire - Ockbrook & Holloway being different places in Derbyshire :o

I have also found some of the same family on the Ancestry OneWorldTree, & again the place is given as Ockbrook, Holloway, Middlesex

So - in short
1) are Ockbrook & Holloway close enough to be linked like this?
2) has anyone seen this confusion before where folks decide it must be Holloway in London because that's the only Holloway there is!!


cheers
a very confused Rosemary ???

ps I will be chasing actual sightings in Parish Records separately, I just want to establish whether I should be looking in Derbyshire or London first!
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Rian on Thursday 02 March 06 22:56 GMT (UK)
 I looked up Ockbrook on multimap and old maps from Curiousfox and the only one I could find was near Derby. There is a Holloway about 15-20 miles n of Derby. I would be looking there first if I was you. Could you phone or write to the Derbyshire Co council before you head off in person?
Your guess about someone thinking the only Holloway is in London could be correct (bits of London are  often entered as Middlesex).
I had a hassle with one of mine born Islington — turned out to be part of Liverpool!
Can you give us the names and dates for a lookup — I can do 1837 online.
Rian.
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Thursday 02 March 06 23:03 GMT (UK)
Rian

thanks for the info & advice - yes, I need to plan any visit to Derbyshire with care - I hadn't thought of phoning first though, so thanks for that ;)

Also, thanks for the look up offer  ;D
.... but the folks I am interested in were born in the 1770s & then their children in the early 1800s.... so 1837 won't be much help!!!

For your interest, they are:

Fa John Nevill
Mo Elizabeth ?Tring
children:
John Benjamin Nevill b1770
David Nevill b1772
Jonathan Nevill b1774 (my ancestor)

cheers
Rosemary
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Valda on Thursday 02 March 06 23:14 GMT (UK)
JOHN PETER NEVIL 
Birth:  29 APR 1757   
Christening:  30 APR 1757   United Bretherns Congregation, Ockbrook, Derby, Death:  30 SEP 1757   
Father:  JOHN NEVIL 
Mother:  SUSANNAH     

JOHN BENJAMIN NEVIL 
Birth:  22 JUN 1770   
Christening:  24 JUN 1770   United Bretherns Congregation, Ockbrook, Derby,
Father:  JOHN NEVIL 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

JONATHAN NEVIL 
Birth:  08 MAY 1774   
Christening:  10 MAY 1774   United Bretherns Congregation, Ockbrook, Derby,
Father:  JOHN NEVIL 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

DAVID NEVIL 
Birth:  08 MAY 1774   
Christening:  10 MAY 1774   United Bretherns Congregation, Ockbrook, Derby,
Father:  JOHN NEVIL 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

ANN NEVIL 
Birth:  18 NOV 1776   
Christening:  24 NOV 1776   United Bretherns Congregation, Ockbrook, Derby,
Father:  JOHN NEVIL 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

Regards

Valda



 
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Thursday 02 March 06 23:17 GMT (UK)
Valda
Wow thanks v much ;D ;D ;D
.... and where on earth did you find them?
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Valda on Thursday 02 March 06 23:27 GMT (UK)
On the IGI but not submitted by an individual (if you check that batch number just for Nevils they are all over the place) but from the actual indexed church records.

Regards

Valda

 
 
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Rian on Thursday 02 March 06 23:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Valda — how do you do a search for them?
Sounds like it could b a useful thing to know!
Rian.
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Thursday 02 March 06 23:48 GMT (UK)
Quote
On the IGI but not submitted by an individual [....] but from the actual indexed church records.

OK - thanks... I will go and practice my searching on IGI ;)

I am very grateful Valda, as this definitely confirms them in Ockbrook Derbyshire - and gets around the Holloway/London/Middlesex confusion 8)

cheers
Rosemary
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Valda on Friday 03 March 06 06:45 GMT (UK)
Rhian

once you have found one, and Rosemary gave me names and dates and you have opened up the individual record, you click on the batch number in the bottom left hand corner. Put in the surname you want and if you want to narrow it down parent or parents first names and then search on just those church records contain in that 'batch' for any possible siblings.

Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Rian on Friday 03 March 06 08:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks Valda, I'll give it ago.
Rian.
Title: Re: NEVILL in Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: andersongh on Wednesday 09 August 06 07:30 BST (UK)
Hi All,
I have just joined rootschat, and am very interested to see this entry regarding the Nevills:



Fa John Nevill
Mo Elizabeth ?Tring
children:
John Benjamin Nevill b1770
David Nevill b1772
Jonathan Nevill b1774 (my ancestor)

cheers
Rosemary


The John Benjamin Nevill mentioned (son of John Nevill and Elizabeth) is a 5x Great Grandfather of mine. I have a reasonably detailed tree of his decendants, but of his ancestors I have found many conflicts in the information I have been able to locate. I understand that there is a book called "The Genealogy of the Nevills of Suffolk" which reliably establishes the line back to 1658 (confirmed by will information), and possably as far back as 1398 with less reliability. Unfortunatey, I have not yet found a copy of this book (have been too busy working on other projects to look for it!). 
Anyway, I'd be interested to see what others have been able to find, both of the ancestors and decendants of these Nevills. I could prepare a ged file on my branch of the Nevills also if anyone was interested.

Cheers,
Graham

Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Thursday 10 August 06 21:08 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
Graham
I am very excited by your posting - I have been hoping that I would make contact with someone from your branch of the Nevill family....

Quote
I understand that there is a book called "The Genealogy of the Nevills of Suffolk" which reliably establishes the line back to 1658 (confirmed by will information), and possably as far back as 1398 with less reliability. Unfortunatey, I have not yet found a copy of this book (have been too busy working on other projects to look for it!). 

I am pleased to be able to report that I have tracked down this precious document at the Society of Genealogists library in London, & have a copy - I am happy to share it with you.... this library also has the handwritten notes of Canon Edmund Robert Nevill (1862-1933), the author of the Nevills of Suffolk report.

Anyway - very happy to share Nevill info on my branch & earlier ancestors with you - I will pm you so that we can swap email addresses for sending gedcom files, scans of docs etc etc

cheers
Rosemary
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: andersongh on Friday 11 August 06 02:34 BST (UK)
Hi Rosemary,

That's fantastic news! I am really looking forward to the impending trade of information!
FYI, my relationship to John Benjamin Nevill is as follows:

John Benjamin Nevill (1770-?) = Milicent Tarratt
William Nevill (1808-1874) = Mary Oridge
William James Nevill (1841-?) = Christiana Flight
Christiana Nevill (1864-1951) = William Amelius Beauclerk Fyers
Amelius Beauclerk Fyers (1885-1958)
Margaret Fyers  = George Anderson
Hugh Anderson = Rona Pearce
Graham Anderson - Me!

;D ;D ;D

...this library also has the handwritten notes of Canon Edmund Robert Nevill (1862-1933), the author of the Nevills of Suffolk report...

That answers a couple of questions. I have a copy of a many-times-photocopied letter from Ralph Nevill (b. 1845) written in 1915. The letter refers to an article which had recently been published in "The Genealogist" and mentions that "...ERN was anxious to get something on record before he went to New Zealand..." From your post it appears that the "ERN" mentioned must have been Edmund Robert Nevill. It's great to hear that his notes have survived and are available.
This letter came to me via a small booklet prepared by a fourth cousin of mine as a school project about 15 years ago. The booklet is not particularly detailed, but has been fantastic as it refers to a large number of resources. FYI it appears to have drawn from the notes and research of Geoffrey Nevill (1879-1972), his father William James Nevill (1841-?, my 3xGreat Grandfather); and the correspondance between WJN. and his brother Ralph (b. 1845).
Some of the principal resources I have so far identified include:
1. "The Genealogy of the Nevills of Suffolk" (as previously mentioned).
2. Articles on "The Genealogist" issues of January 1907 and possably late 1914/early 1915.
3. Foss' "British Judges" - gives a significant amount of Nevill biographical info.
4. "The Nevills" (as mentioned above- I am unsure exactly which cousin of mine wrote this) - gives a good outline of my branch of the Nevills in New Zealand

Of these I have so far only managed to access items 3 and 4.

Cheers,
Graham




Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: rosemaryag on Friday 11 August 06 17:04 BST (UK)
Hey Graham

I'm feeling quite overwhelmed & not sure where to start!!! I have received your pm, and will email to make sure we have that contact.

I am descended from Jonathan Nevill, brother of your John Benjamin Nevill as follows:

Jonathan Nevill (1774-1840) = Mary Ann Surflen (1789-1879)
George Nevill (1826-c1890) = Augusta Robinson Boddy (c1825 - 1872)
Annie Rose Nevill (1869-1940) = Richard Henry Cormack (1860-1946)
Arthur Richard Cormack (1893-1991) = Vera Newbon Shephard (1899-1969)
Bridget = Clem (my parents, still living)
Rosemary - me!

so Jonathan is my 3xgreat grandfather (cf his brother being your 5xgreat grandfather).

I have some independent info on their parents John Nevill (1717-1783) & Elizabeth Tring (not her maiden name) - apart from the research of ER Nevill - including their marriage licence & entries on the family from the moravian church records..... which I will be happy to share.

Edmund Robert Nevill or ERN (1862-1933), who did a great deal of Nevill research, was descended from an older brother of your William Nevill (1808-1874) as follows:

Jonathon Nevill (1806-1871) = Mary Berrey (? - 1884)
Edmund Berrey Nevill (1835-1875) = Mary Louise Linton (? - 1886)
Edmund Robert Nevill (1862 - 1933) = Lilian Ethel Bagley (1878-1969)

there is a lot of Nevill info - as researched by ERN - stored at the Society of Genealogists in London.... the publication I have (your target 1) is, I think, a reprint of the article originally published in The Genealogist (your target 2).

ERN also published on Nevills from other parts of the country, I think he divided them up into about 7 different groups - but I haven't copied it all ;) as we definitely fall in the Nevills of Suffolk group.

btw ERN & his father were ordained & both emigrated to New Zealand, and ERN's uncle was Samuel Tarrat Nevill, the first archbishop of NZ... accordingly if you google their names, you will find entries in the NZ National Dictionary of Biography & a database of NZ clergy

ok I will stop for now & send a few snippets by email .....
cheers
Rosemary
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: goff153 on Friday 22 September 06 11:09 BST (UK)
Sounds to me like a house called Ockbrook in Holloway, London.

Just a thought
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: LFS on Saturday 23 September 06 22:56 BST (UK)
United Brethrens Congregation - were they Moravians do you think?  There was still a Moravian school in Ockbrook when I was young i.e. the 60s, and I think a Moravian settlement somewhere in the area.
Best wishes
Linda
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Valda on Sunday 24 September 06 08:21 BST (UK)
If you Google Ockbrook and Brethren you can see a substantial number of websites about the Moravian church and the community at Ockbrook.

http://www.wmcarey.edu/carey/wmward/Misc%20html/moravian.html

Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: TheSnowmonkey on Sunday 29 November 09 19:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Rosemary  :),
                        I tried sending you a pm but does not seem to work. I was doing a google search on my grandfather Arthur Richard Cormack..( only your birth and dates don't match the ones I have) when your name came up. I recognise your mothers name and your fathers. I believe we might be cousins.
Anyway I have got as far as my grandfathers war record, though the information he gave me appears to be wrong, though what I found ties in with what my sister told me.
I am sure its is the same grandfather, but do you know if he had anything to do with Bees?
Also I want to trace his father back and so on and find out what each one did.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Valda on Sunday 29 November 09 19:56 GMT (UK)
Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

You must post three times on Rootschat before you can send or receive personal messages.

Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: TheSnowmonkey on Sunday 29 November 09 20:18 GMT (UK)
Ah ok thanks for the info :)
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: nevhunt on Monday 13 June 11 06:34 BST (UK)
Hi Rosemaryag,
Im off the Nevill family line to. John Benjamine nevill & Millicent Tarrat's, son Jonathan nevill wife mary De Tarrotte Berrrey's son  Edmund berrey Nevill. Im a bit lost though, not sure who Edmunds wife was. but I have 2 of Edmunds 3 children,
Nevhunt
Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: nevhunt on Monday 13 June 11 06:45 BST (UK)
Hi Rosemary,

That's fantastic news! I am really looking forward to the impending trade of information!
FYI, my relationship to John Benjamin Nevill is as follows:

John Benjamin Nevill (1770-?) = Milicent Tarratt
William Nevill (1808-1874) = Mary Oridge
William James Nevill (1841-?) = Christiana Flight
Christiana Nevill (1864-1951) = William Amelius Beauclerk Fyers
Amelius Beauclerk Fyers (1885-1958)
Margaret Fyers  = George Anderson
Hugh Anderson = Rona Pearce
Graham Anderson - Me!

;D ;D ;D

...this library also has the handwritten notes of Canon Edmund Robert Nevill (1862-1933), the author of the Nevills of Suffolk report...

That answers a couple of questions. I have a copy of a many-times-photocopied letter from Ralph Nevill (b. 1845) written in 1915. The letter refers to an article which had recently been published in "The Genealogist" and mentions that "...ERN was anxious to get something on record before he went to New Zealand..." From your post it appears that the "ERN" mentioned must have been Edmund Robert Nevill. It's great to hear that his notes have survived and are available.
This letter came to me via a small booklet prepared by a fourth cousin of mine as a school project about 15 years ago. The booklet is not particularly detailed, but has been fantastic as it refers to a large number of resources. FYI it appears to have drawn from the notes and research of Geoffrey Nevill (1879-1972), his father William James Nevill (1841-?, my 3xGreat Grandfather); and the correspondance between WJN. and his brother Ralph (b. 1845).
Some of the principal resources I have so far identified include:
1. "The Genealogy of the Nevills of Suffolk" (as previously mentioned).
2. Articles on "The Genealogist" issues of January 1907 and possably late 1914/early 1915.
3. Foss' "British Judges" - gives a significant amount of Nevill biographical info.
4. "The Nevills" (as mentioned above- I am unsure exactly which cousin of mine wrote this) - gives a good outline of my branch of the Nevills in New Zealand

Of these I have so far only managed to access items 3 and 4.

Cheers,
Graham


Hi Graham,  Im looking into the Nevill family tree to.

 John Benjamin Nevill & Millicent Tarratt (B:1774 D:1838) 
Jonathan Nevill B: 1807 D: 1871= Mary De Terrotte Berrey B: 1805 nottinghamshire
Edmund Berrey B:24.9.1835 D:31.1.1875= ?
Guy Nevill                       = Rosa louisa Bull
Molly Allison Nevill B:11.2.1908  D: ?= Alexander kyile caldwell B:20.6.? D?
Susanne Watson  = Welby Albert Edward Watson
Robyn Hunt Me

would love to get in touch and further the search.


Title: Re: Ockbrook, Holloway in Derbyshire? Help!
Post by: Ruffit on Sunday 15 April 18 00:24 BST (UK)
I would like to get in touch with descendants of Christiana and William Nevill (my great great grandparents). I have a memoir written by Christiana, and I am trying to flesh out the story. My great grandmother was their daughter Melicent (Millie).