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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: ladybird on Saturday 02 October 04 08:22 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm wondering if anyone has access to Polmont Cemetary.
I have a family called Jeffrey that I know are buried there.
I have been told that the parish lost it's records in a fire and death dates are proving hard to find.
I would be interested in any or all headstone info on this surname, if SKS is there for any reason please, I would be very grateful.
many thanks
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Hiya ladybird,
I had a look at the transcribed pre-1855 memorial inscriptions published for Polmont and there were no Jeffery at all the nearest name was Jarvey a lady called Ann.
Not sure if it is a pre-1855 grave you would be looking for?
Happy digging,
Pam
:-)
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Thanks anyway Pam, sorry I haven't replied before now but I've been offline for a few days
I've actually solved my problem by a search through Scotlandspeople, and a very nice lady in Polmont has helped a lot
thanks for your time, Sylvia
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I wonder could either of you help me. How do I get hold of the transcribed memorial inscriptions for Polmont? Are there any for Muiravonside cemetery? I
I'm trying to find some inscriptions for the Bryce family there and would be grateful for any help,
Chris
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Hi Chris,
this is all a bit criptic but here is the Pre 1855 Monumental Inscriptions for
Muiravonside Bryce. There is also a Brice, and testaments listed for
Alex. Bryce flesher Madinstone 1704
Alex. Bryce portioner Madinstone 1716
Archd Bryce in Hillhead & w margt Mairshall 1685;
Archd Bryce in Easter Hillhead 1744
Archd Bryce portioner Knowhead 1747
Margt Bryce w of John Dick in Hill of Madistoun 1666
#86 Grey Granite
Bryce ; Allan B. in Blackstoen 13.5.1852, w Margaret Calder 23.4.1884, chn Eliz 7.2.1840 Margt 15.6.1847, Margt 23.2.1879, Cornelius 22.5.1890, And 23.12.1895.
#87 restored 1877 by Wm Bryce engine driver N.B. railway (on top); (east side) 1732; fa Wm B. 2.2.1878, Mo Magrt Bell J - AB; (west side) G.B. M.B. 23.1.1880 77
Polmont pre 1855 MIs
Bryce #276
(Tall Urn); Richard Ballantine 3.4.1834 13.8.1881, W Marion Dick 17.9.1885 51, s And 12.8.1877 7y 4m, 1s John 4.3.1889 35 (w Janet Bryce 16.7.1921 60) 2s Alex 5.10.1912 45, 3s Jas 29.1.1922 53 (wife Wife Mary Brown 16.12.1951 79)
Hope this all makes sense or that someone more knowledgeable can translate for you. Please let the group know if this helps you make a connection.
Regards
Dano
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It certainly does help. The one restored by Wm Bryce engine driver is that of my gt gt grandfather William and his wife Margaret Bell Bryce. I presume the other initials refer to his children . I know the names of his parents, they were William Bryce and Grizel Clarkson but I have been totally unable to find any record of their deathsThey married in 1794 and I know that Grizel at least lived until1830 as there is a record of a court case between her and Cornelius Bryce in the Archives though as yet I have not seen it as I live in Wales and cannot get to E?burgh yet.
Still don't know who my gt gt gt grandfathers parents were and there are just so many Bryces around and of course the Naming pattern makes it very difficult to decide who is who. Any help anyone can give on this matter would be hugely appreciated.
I am fairly sure that the families of William and Allan Bryce are related as the name Cornelius was carried through the family as far as my great uncle Corney Bryce whom I remember from when I was a little girl.
I am the great granddaughter of John Bell Bryce who is buried in Muiravonside cemetery
Thanks for your help. I may also have a question about Polmont and Bo'ness pre 1855 burials, Matthew Donaldson and Catherine Main.
Regards to the group Chris.
PS do you have any ideas where else I could find info apart from Scotlandspeople ( superb site) and the Scottish Archives.
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Hi again Chris,
I have Matthew Donaldson & Catherine Main on my database. Not directly related but I tracked this couple to get to my Donaldson family.
The couple had 10 children beginning with John Donaldson b 1810 Carriden, West Lothian and ending with Robert b 1834 Polmont.
The 5th Child Helen Donaldson b 1820 Carriden was the 2nd wife of Colin McLuckie (son of James McLuckie & Jean Brown - b 1817 Larbert d 1887 Larbert) I have both Colin's & Helen's (died 1886 Polmont) death certificates. let me know if you would like copies of them.
Colin is my 3rd cousin & I have copies of his marriage to Helen Donaldson. Just for the information of any group members who may be interested, his 1st wife was Margaret Towers (b 1822 - 1870 daughter of Robert Towers & Elizabeth Dick) I have her death certificate as well as that of her mother.
Janet Towers, the sister of Margaret , was the 2nd wife of James McLuckie, brother of Colin. Oh how twisted is our Scottish history.
Regards
Dano
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Hi Chris,
The 3 Bryce Stones in Muiravonside Churchyard as as are follows:
(Stone Badly Eroded)
.........???? family
WILLIAM BRYCE who died ? July 1873 aged ?
Also his wife AGNES BOAG died 25th June 1888 aged 81 years
WILLIAM BRYCE son of James Bryce died 23rd September 1889 aged 4 years
Erected to the memory of ALLAN BRYCE, Blackston died 13th May 1852
And his wife MARGARET CALDER died 23rd April 1884
Also their family
ELIZABETH who died 7th February 1840
MARGARET who died 1st June 1847
CORNELIUS who died 22nd May 1890
ANDREW who died 23rd December 1895
In memory of JOHN CALDER of Hill who died 4th September 1890 aged 85 years
Also his wife MARGARET BRYCE who died 9th June 1898 aged 62 years
The published pre-1855 MI's are all abbreviated and sometimes it makes life just that wee bit more complicated trying to figure out what the abbreviations mean. I transcribed the above three last summer and obviously they have got much more worn or eroded since the late sixties when they were first done. The first part of the inscription on the first stone above was almost impossible to de-cypher. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me the day I went to Muiravonside but I'm hoping to head out that way someday soon.
Anne.
P.S. I transcribe 'what I think' the inscription says! It can be really difficult to make out the difference between a 3 and an 8 for example and I'd hate to be responsible for giving the wrong dates!
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Thanks very much, I'm sure these Bryces are related to my family. What I am looking for is a William Bryce and Grizel Clarkson but do you think I can find them anywhere. They were married in Muiravonside in 1794 and I know Grizel was still alive in 1830 but I can find no trace of either death anywhere. It's REALLY frustrating to have got so far back and to have come to a halt.
Chris
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TO DANO,
I anm directly descended from George Donaldson the son of Matthew Donaldson and Catherine Main. George was my great great grandfather.
I think that Mathew Donaldson is buried in Polmont ,he died in 1840
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The only one of the children I have a marriage & death for is Helen b 1820 in Carriden. Helen married
1) William Mckenzie 1840 in Polmont and then
2) Colin McLuckie 1871 Falkirk.
Do you already have the names and births of the 11 children of Matthew & Catherine?
I have matthew b 1791 Carriden to John Donaldson & Helen Thomson.
I have Catherine b 1794 Carriden to George Main & Margaret Marshall
Dano
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I have the names,as follows but not the marriages
John 18/12/1810
john 14/12/1812
Margaret 28/01/1814
GEORGE 13/07/1817 married Christina Gillespie 17/08/1838 in Polmont
Helen 10/01/1820
Matthew20/03/1822
Alexander05/03/1825
Magdalen 10/08/1827
Agnes grieve 20/08/1829
William 28/05/1832
Robert 27/09/1834
I was in contact with one of Robert's descendants. Apparently Robert and his family went to America, but she hasn't been in contact for some time.
Thanks for the info.
If I find any more I'll let you know.
Cheers, Chris
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Hi Chris,
Just found another 'Brice' in the pre-1855 MI's. This one is as follows:
C B J R
Cornelius Brice 26.2.1777 53, s Corn? 13m, da Margt 12
Translated:
(Probably) Cornelius Brice and his wife J R
Cornelius Brice died 26th February 1777 aged 53, son Cornelius (the question mark meaning the stone was hard to read) died aged 13 months, daughter Margaret died aged 12.
Translation of the ones Dano sent you:
No: 86
Grey Granite Stone with the name BRYCE either at the top or on the base
Allan Bryce in Blackston died 13.5.1852
Wife Margaret Calder died 23.4.1884
Children, Elizabeth died 7.2.1840
Margaret died 15.6.1847
Margaret died 23.02.1879
Cornelius died 22.05.1890
Andrew died 23.12.1895
No: 87
Stone restored in 1877 by William Bryce, Engine Driver N.B. Railway (This must be the inscription across the top of the stone)
(On the east side)
1732
Father William Bryce died 2.2.1878
Mother Margaret bell died 23.1.1880 aged 77
J - A B
(On the west side)
G B M B
There are a good few stones in this churchyard which have just one or two sets of initials like the C B J R above but I doubt if there's any way of finding out who these people were. I'm afraid Polmont churchyard is like this also.
Some of the 'initials' stones have dates which might or might not tie in with dates you have already, it would depend on tying together the two names and if the date had a significant meaning. Sometimes the date on these refers to when the lair was purchased rather than the date of someone's death.
Here are the ones containing a 'B' as a surname with a date (in Muiravonside)
D (I or J) + J B 1782
J D + B B J D + E M 1846
Just in case you were't sure of the transcription (in Polmont) Dano sent, here's a translation:
No: 276
The description of the stone tells us that it's obviously a tall stone topped with an urn of some sorts.
Richard Ballantyne born 3.4.1834 died 13.8.1881
Wife Marion Dick died 17.9.1885 aged 51
Son Andrew died 12.8.1877 aged 7 years 4 months
Eldest son John died 4.3.1899 aged 35
Janet Bryce (widow of eldest son John) died 16.7.1921 aged 60
2nd Son Alexander died 5.10.1912 aged 45
3rd Son James died 29.1.1922 aged 53
Mary Brown (wife of 3rd son James) died 16.12.1951 aged 79
I'll attach two photos of a Polmont stone (front and top) so you know 'what I'm on about' when I'm taking about 'initial' stones. This one contains a 'B' - so you never know!!
Anne
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Ann, Could I ask a huge favour, could you possibly photograph the grave of William Bryce And Margaret Bell for me and upload it to this site, or would you prefer my e-mail address. As I mentioned this is the grave of my great great grandparents., my great grandparents and grandmother are in the new muiravonside cemetery and I have a photo of their grave taken by a remote connection on that side. My other great grandparents are also in the new cemetery, they are John Donaldson and Ann Thomson, any relatives out there?
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I would prefer you personal e-mail so I can send through a larger image.
I don't have a photo of this stone yet but if you are willing to wait till the better weather comes, I'll certainly go and try to find it.
Send me your address by PM - if you post it here, one of the moderators will probably remove it.
Anne
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Sorry, don't know what you mean by PM.Can you explain please? Christine
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Sorry Chris,
If you click on my name it will bring up my profile. At the bottom of the box you'll see the option "Send this Rootchatter a Private Message" Click on this and another window will come up and just type away and click send.
When I receive it, right up at the top of the page it will say "Welcome back, apanderson, you have XX messages, 1 is new and this will be your message. I'll also ghet notification in my e-mail inbox as I chose this option too.
I'll send you a PM, so check the top of the page and you should have at least 1!!
Anne.
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Hi Chris,
I finally managed to fit in a trip to Muiravonside Churchyard!
I've sent you a PM with some info.
Anne
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Would it be possible to find out if there is a burial there for Margaret Marchall/Marshall died 12 Feb 1862, I think she may be the Margaret Auld married to William Marshall at Torphican in 1816, the informant on her death certificate was daughter Janet Marshall, but does not name the deceased husband.
She confirms that Margaret was another child of Andrew Auld and Margaret Shaw.
Not having any luck yet finding Margaret and Janet on census.
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Hi,
Hoping that somebody from this thread is still on here :)
I am hoping for information for the burial of Alexander McLuckie, miner, died in Dec 1856, his parents were John McLuckie and Margaret Miln(e). His wife was Mary Halket and they had 9 children. Alexander's death cert says he was buried at Polmont Churchyard.
When I look at sites online (find a grave, memento mori), there is no listing for them in Polmont Churchyard.
Does anybody have any information on this family?
Thanks, Lori
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Hello Lori - welcome to Rootschat! :D
Polmont's Burial Registers were all destroyed many years ago when they were stored in a bothy in the cemetery and the ones which do exist are from a much later date than you're looking for.
Many of the information on the online MI sites have been dependant on either finding/photographing/transcribing legible existing stones, or in more cases, copying the information direct from the published pre-1988 East Stirlingshire Monumental Inscription book. (See page 1 of this thread).
If there is/was no stone, then I doubt if there would be any records.
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Thanks for the response.
I have attached a copy of a headstone picture on Ancestry which records the location as Polmont Churchyard and I have messaged the user that originally posted it. I just wondered why it wouldn't be listed anywhere else.
I had been hoping for more info (like Mary Halkets death date), but if the records were destroyed by fire that is not likely to happen.
Lori
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Is it 1838 that's showing on the top of the stone?
I imagine that's the year the couple purchased the lair (that seems to be the trend in those days) rather than a year of death of one of the individuals.
Have you found them in any census? If so, it might mean you have to accept a span of up to 10 years for a death if they appear on one and not on the next.
Anne
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Did the family live in Redding?
If so, I think they might be on the 1841 Census, but wife Mary doesn't appear in 1851.
On Family Search, there is a birth and a death of a McLuckie male child on 6th May 1839, father's name only listed as McLuckie.
See: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1G4-6J9
Anne
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Thank you for explaining what the 1838 could mean; I had wondered.
They are both on the 1841 census (with 5 of the children) in Polmont, but only Alexander and daughter Janet and her husband in 1851.
Another piece to be left for now I guess.
Lori
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For the 1839 birth and death, I wonder if it could have been their son, Alexander born 1820, who was the father. The latest birth I found for Alexander and Mary was 1825. 1839 would not be impossible, but quite a gap and Mary would have been in her early 50's I think.
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Yes, you're probably right about the wee one being a grandson.
Anne
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Hi. My Gr Grandfather, Thomas LYNCH was born in Aug 1866 in Polmont. He married to Catherine SHIELDS. (have no marriage record); My Gr Gr Grandparents, James LYNCH (LINCH) born 1810 in Ireland and wife, Ann HUTTON, born 1823 Linlithgows/W.Lothian - have nothing on them other than they were married February 6, 1846 Stirlingshire. They resided in Muiravonside but I have no Death Date/Burials for them.
Thomas & Catherine emigrated to USA in 1880s. Anything would help...names of parents of James & Ann and where in Ireland James was born...Tyrone IR is all I know but nothing to pin point it further as far as town or his parents names. Burial/Death/Marriage records may possibly tell more. They were Roman Catholics. Thank you.
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My g-g-g grandfather was Alexander McLuckie born 1838 who married Elizabeth Porteous in 1857. His parents were Andrew McLuckie and Janet Gow. Andrew died in 1872, and was the son of Alexander McLuckie and Mary Halket. I have Alexander as son of John McLuckie and Margaret Miln ("in fornication" meaning this was outside marriage). Generally, this means they'd have been having an extra-marital affair or having a kid pretty young. Looking at possible John McLuckies (there are many) the one that stands out is John McLuckie Baptised in Kippen, 1762. He'd have then been 16-17 when having his son Alexander. No trace of a Margaret Miln anywhere nearby sadly. Kippen has a whole host of McLuckies. Many descend from Robert McLuckie who married Janet Leckie in 1718. Janet Leckie, daughter of Walter Leckie of Leckie, descends from the Lairds of Leckie who have a line going back into the Middle Ages and the Royal family. I don't know if our McLuckies descend from this couple. Let me know if you have anything Lori. I know this thread have been here a long time, so hope you see it!