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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: EddieW on Monday 06 March 06 14:06 GMT (UK)
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My grandfather was christened William George White Tebby, born 28 Jun 1884 Slip End Caddington but there was no father on his birth certificate.
His mother was Elizabeth Tebby and she married in 1889.
His father must have been married as i was told that the White's brought him up in his early years.
The correct spelling is Tebbey.
Is there any way i could find his father.
Eddie W :)
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Hi Eddy
The only way to get an idea is to see whether the vicar has named a "suspect" in the baptism register or to findout whether a bastardy order was issued by the Overseers of the Poor. It is a little late for the latter - most were earlier in the century.
Have you found him on censuses? Who did his mother marry? I assume you mean that William was looked after by the WHITEs before his mother's marriage?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hello Eddie,
Isn't this a case of a single girl, Miss Tebby, cleverly slipping in the family name of the father "White" as a middle name for their child?
And in this case it sounds as if the father's family "The Whites" acknowledged that their son was the father, by bringing up the child? How very kind of them. It makes such a refreshing story, compared to the usual "runaway" suspect.
I am very impressed.
Humanity is not so bad, after all.
Or have I missed something ::)
UKgirl
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Thanks Arranroots
I will try and find a baptism but i have a feeling they were not church people.
I have tried the census but not conclusive, there is a William age 8 with a father George and a William age 8 with a father William in the 1891 census but no William George.
Elizabeth married William Walter Smart in 1889 and i have them in the 1901 census but i have trouble with this census puting all the family together and still didn't find a William George age 17 by this time.
Regards
EddieW
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Hi UKgirl
You are right about the kindness but from the little i was told the kindness was on Mrs Whites side as the man was i think married, wether Elizabeth knew this at the time who knows.
Regards
EddieW :)
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Hello again,
It is helpful to explain what you have already found ;)
For example, have you found the mother in 1881?
Presumably you have her father's name from her marriage certificate?
Do you know anything about the White family?
Is there a White family living in close proximity to the Tebbey family in 1881?
I think that you must go backwards, in order to go forwards.
It would be helpful to find the two families before he was born.
UKgirl
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Hi again UKgirl
Elizabeth was born 19 Sep 1862, father Charles born c1833, mother Ann Parker but have not found Elizabeth Charles or Ann in the 1881 census on the LDS site and don't have access to the 1871 census (have not posted these on rootschat yet).
Don't know anything about the whites.
Have two White familys in 1891 census.
EddieW
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1891: Bedfordshire, Dunstable, District 2
Walter Smart, aged 20 (?) born Dunstable, boot shoe maker
Elizabeth Smart, aged 25 born Leighton Buzzard, dressmaker
William James Smart, 1 year old, born Dunstable
Sidney Thomas Smart, 2 months old, born Dunstable
124, High Street South
UKgirl
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1881
RG11/ 1630
Bedfordshire, Clifton, District 10
Elizabeth Charles aged 14 working as a servant in a pub, "The Golden Lion"
Born in Stotfold, Bedfordshire
Publican: Joseph King
wife: Martha King
I don't know anything about Bedfordshire.
Is Stotfold near Leighton Buzzard?
I have to dash now, so I can't try anything else tonight.
Perhaps someone else will have a go.
If not, I will try again tomorrow.
Ukgirl
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Shouldn't that be Elizabeth TEBBEY, with father Charles?
???
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This should be them in 1871
RG10/1561/48/24
Charles TEBBY H Wdr 38 - brewer - Beds Leighton
Charles son 13 - do
Elizabeth dau 8 - do
Address: Workhouse Lane, Leighton Buzzard
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Eddie
In 1901 William G Tebbey (although looks like Telbey) 16 General Straw Worker born Slip End is listed as a boarder with Elizabeth and Walter and children.
I haven't been able to find anyone more conclusive in 1891.
Jan ;)
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In 1891 William with father George is still with his family. Will check the other one for you.
Jan ;)
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Here is 1861 - still can't find them in 1881
RG9/1005/74/34
Charles TEBBY H M 28 - ag lab
Ann W M 28 - straw plaiter
Ann dau 9 - scholar
Jane dau 6 - do
Charles son 4 - do
William PARKER bro in law U 24 - railway lab
Thomas PARKER do U 22 - do
All b Leighton Buzzard
Address: Workhouse Lane, Leighton Buzzard
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William White with father William is also still with his family in 1901.
So Your William has to be hiding somewhere else ???
Jan ;)
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All part of the process of elimination, Jan! :)
I still think you will have to choose one of the 2 original options to find the father, though Eddie
A ;)
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I've searched every which way for him in 1891 but can't find him :(
Jan ;)
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Got him ;D
Jan ;)
1891
Workhouse Lane, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Tebby Head M 57 Agri Labourer Beds Leighton Bd
Emma do Wife M 50 Beds Leighton Bd
William do Grandson 6 Scholar Beds Luton
RG12/1264/60 Pg24
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Found Charles in 1881
Jan ;)
Workhouse Lane, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Tibby Head M 47 Ag Lab Leighton
Emma do Wife M 42 Hatter Straw do
RG11/1640/71 Pg32
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Hi Arranroots and janan!
You have been busy bees!!
Well done- eddie will be very pleased ;D.
Sorry about the Elizabeth Charles fiasco!! I had one foot out of the door on my way home, and it was VERY LATE at night ;)
But you got it all, well done.
There's certainly a lot of food for thought there.
After all that searching, they were actually at the same address 1861, 1871, 1881, and 1891!!
So William was not looked after by the "Whites" after the age of 6, if in fact at all!!
Did either of you come across a candidate for "Mr White" living in close proximity?
UKgirl
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I think the thing to remember here is that the census is just a snapshot of one night in a ten year period.
A lot can change over that time - think of what you have done in the last ten years!
We cannot reasonably expect Mr WHITE to be living next door on the night of the census - although it does sometimes happen!
You can be assured that if he was there, we would have spotted him! :D
My point is that even if we suspected the neighbour's boy, it would still be along way from proving anything! Also that the WHITEs could well have looked after William for a period of years and we would be unaware of it. If the story about the WHITEs looking after him IS true, it could well be backed up by other evidence such as bastardy orders identifying their son as the father. That line is worth pursuing.
Have you got a marriage cert for William, Eddie? There is just an outside chance he might have identified his father on that.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hello Arranroots,
Except in this case, it wasn't just a snapshot of one night in 10 years, it was 4 nights in 40 years.
It's very unusual for families to stay put at the same address for so long.
So, it might be that the Whites did too, or at least that they were very close by during one or more of those Censuses.
The fact that the White grandparents were supposed to have helped out and that his middle name was blatantly "White", certainly suggests that they were closely "in the picture", don't you think? As I said in my earlier post, they seem to have been kind grandparents, which is a very nice thought.
Ukgirl
PS. And I think if the neighbours' boy happened to be a married man called White, whose parents were living nextdoor, I'd definitely place my bet on him ;D
Seriously though, we sometimes think that names like White or Smith or Jones are so numerous, that we should rule out the obvious.
I would suggest that if you forget how supposedly commonplace the name "White" seems, then if there is a White family next door, then "the obvious" is probably the thing to go with.
After all, DNA is out of the question, so you are only left with common sense and circumstantial evidence.
It's a hard life for some of us ;)
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One thing that strikes me about this, is that the parents of Elizabeth are consistently in Leighton Buzzard and yet the baby is born in Caddington.
Elizabeth is not found yet in 1881, which means she is effectively missing for a long period. She would likely be employed, possibly away from home in 1881.
So I looked for her in Caddington without success.
I did find a family of WHITEs in Caddington, with eligible sons. Briefly they are:
Mathew WHITE H M 47 - straw dealer
Hannah 45
Mary 22
Edwin 19 - ag lab
Ezra 15 - ag lab
Henry 12
Mathew 9
Elizabeth 6
Chaul End, Caddington
I thought I would see what became of the sons, since we know that Elizabeth does not appear to have given birth at her parents' home - maybe that of her lover's parents?
;)
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Unable to locate an address that looks like Slip End in 1881 or 1891.
The WHITE family are still in Chaul End in 1891, minus Edwin who is married and has called his first daughter Elizabeth (although presumably after his sister) and his son is Hilary Edwin.
Who registered the birth Eddie? And who were the witnesses at Elizabeth's marriage? I wondered whether her parents maintained contact with her as they did with her son.
It was not uncommon for a husband to object to taking care of children born to his wife before her marriage & that might be a more mundane reason that the WHITEs took some part in bringing up the baby.
Arranroots ;)
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Hello again,
I am wondering if there is an error with the reference nos. for 1881 and 1891.
Janan provided the info, but I haven't been able to pull up the relevant images using those numbers.
I expect he was in a hurry to type it up.
If Eddie wants to have a look at it, he might have a problem.
Ukgirl
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No - the ref for 1881 is fine - try just putting Charles & he will pop up I am sure!
Will check the other now
;)
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Yes - same trick works for 1891
Jan is usually reliable!
;)
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Do you notice that in 1891 the property next door to the TEBBEYs home is described a "Common Lodging House"?
There are LOTS of men lodging there, so the potential for transient fathers is enormous!
I still want to know where Elizabeth is in 1881 though, as she must have met the Daddy somewhere!
Arranroots ;)
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A great big thankyou everyone.
This is fantastic.
Slip end is on the birth cert of William G and there is a Slip End in Beds and Herts in the road map of Britain.
If William G was with his grandparents in 1891 the Whites may not have looked after him after all as you say UKgirl.
I see Ann died between 1861 and 1871 and Charles remarried by 1881 so things do change over 10 years even if its at the same address.
His mother Elizabeth registered the birth but no father on the birth or Williams marriage cert.
Witnesses to Elizabeth's marriage were James and Rose Ellen Mouse, no idea were they fit in yet, probably just Friends.
There were Whites and Tebbey's in straw hat manufacturing so the two families could have been Friends through work as on William Gs marriage cert he was a straw hat packer and his wife (my Gran) was a straw hat finisher so i assume they met at work.
Cheers for now
EddieW
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Hi again,
I think that a spot of compassion is required here.
According to eddie's post, he uses LDS for 1881.
As such, he would never be able to find them from the info posted so far, and I guess that he would like to look at them with his own eyes.
I would hardly say that anyone "pops up".
So, to help Eddie find them with the LDS site, and to help anyone else struggling to follow this thread save their precious time:
1861- Indexed as Charles Tebby
1871- Indexed as Charles Sebby
1881- Indexed as Charles Libby
1891- Indexed as Charles Lebley
UKgirl
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Hi again!
I think I might have found James MOUSE in 1891. He is also in the shoe-making trade, so possibly he could be the craftsman to whom (!) Walter was apprenticed? He has a daughter Rose E. & his wife Sarah A is from Dunstable. Would you like them transcribed?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
p.s. do you have Walter on earlier censuses?
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Yes thanks Arranroots i would like a transcription of the 1891 census of Mouse.
I have Walter in the 1881 census age 9, father James, mother Phoebe at Dunstable.
They don't make it easy to find people with the way they spell the names in those days hey UKgirl, but i have Fouchards in Lancashire, just think what they did with that name.
EddieW
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They are just possibles, but here they are!
RG12/1272/126/1
6 Church St, Luton, Beds
James MOUSE H M 49 - shoe maker - Sundon
Sarah A W M 47 - Dunstable
Walter W son U 26 - railway clerk - Houghton Regis
Rose E dau U 18 - dressmaker - ditto
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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FYI James is with his parents in 1861 (Caroline & William) - the lodger is Sarah A HARRISON. I only bothered with this in case Sarah was related to the SMARTs in some way!
RG9/1010/27/8
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Hi Eddie
Yes Slip End definitely exists as I went to school there :D
Still can't find Elizabeth in 1881 but will keep looking.
Jan ;)
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Hi everyone thanks again for the info.
Well the skeletons keep falling out of the cupboard, here's me thinking as Charles and Ann got married in 1855 i had all the children with Charles 1857, George William 1859 and Elizabeth 1862 but up pops Ann 1852 and Jane 1855.
I have Charles parents as Richard Tebby and Louisa Wybrow married 24 Jul 1825 but wasn't sure as it seemed too early as the children's birth dates were David b1832 c1859, Charles b1833 c1859, Richard b1836 c1859, Louisa b1844 c1857, Henry b1847 c1857, James b1850 c1857, John b1852 c1857 from the IGI.
Searching the internet i came across a site Leighton-Linslade Past Time and found an 1841 census which i kept as it was a Tebby.
I think it is the same family, what do you think.
Louisa tebby 30 Straw Plaiter born out of County
George 14 ditto
David 12 ditto
Charles 10 ditto
Jane 7 ditto
Richard 5 ditto
john 1mth born in county
not sure if with this family (as just after them) or on her own as one / by her name
Charlotte Whybrow 65 Independent born in County.
There is no mention of husband Richard or of Louisa being a widow.
If it is not too much of an imposition is there a Richard or Louisa around in 1851 census ;D
Cheers
EddieW
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Here they are in 1851 - still no husband but she's had more children ???
Jan ;)
Woburn Rd End Leighton Buzzard
(Hannah crossed out underwritten)Louisa Tebby Wife 44 mar Plaiter journeyman brewer's wife
David Tebby Son 21 Ag Lab
Charles do do 19 do do
Richard do do 14 do do
Louisa do 7 Plaiter
Henry Son 6 do
James do 3 do
John do 6mo
All born Leighton Buzzard
HO107/1756/130 Pg19
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Found Richard ;D
1851
Great Brickhill, Bucks
Richard Tebby Servant Mar 47 Brewer Beds Leighton Buzzard
in household of
Alice Gearing Wid 56 Innkeeper Middlesex
HO107/1723/67 Pg22
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Richard is a mystery, being a Journyman may meen he travels a lot but very inconveniant for us to be away both census nights.
John 1mth in 1841 has disapeared but usualy when there is another child by the same name later the first one died.
John 6m in 1851 must be the one in the IGI that worked out to be 1852.
Just noticed your second post.
This leaves a lot to the imagination, is he there for his job, sleeping it off, or what (she is a widow) after all he isn't that far from home and this family through the generations seems very promiscuous.
EddieW
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Goodness knows what Richard was up to ??? :o :D
I've had a look for them in 1861 no sign of Richard or Louisa. Richard junior and David are both married living Leighton and are brewers.
Of the younger children I can only find Louisa as a servant in Luton. Henry, James and John have vanished - perhaps Louisa remarried, but if so I can't find her. There is only one Louisa of the right age born Leighton and she isn't the one.
There is a death for a John Tebby in Leighton in 1842 on FreeBMD
Cheers Jan ;)
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The definition of journeyman:
In the medieval system, towns had special privileges, and trades and crafts were controlled by guilds.
The workplace was run by the master who employed apprentices and journeymen.
Journeymen had completed their apprenticeships and were qualified to do the job (ie. be paid daily wages). In time they could become masters in their own right, but this would require acceptance by the guild - and presumably a certain amount of capital.
In this context journeyman simply means a time-served craftsman entitled to a man's wage.
Journeyman has nothing to do with travel as such, but is from the French: jour=day
Taken from:
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/i-k.html#J
As he is a brewer, and as nothing was mechanised in those days, I guess brewing was a very delicate procedure and had to be carried out overnight, perhaps at certain times of the year. I guess you had to keep a careful eye on it, to get it just right.
You couldn't just go home at the end of the day! But probably had to stay until the process was finished.
Perhaps March/April is a busy season for brewers? And hence he was absent on several censuses. That would be worth further investigation.
You may also find more information from trade directories - perhaps a list of beer houses where he may have brewed his delicious concoction.
I think that you can be proud of his skill and talents.
I myself am getting quite a thirst just thinking about it all. Oh for a glass of English real ale! ;D Or two!! ;D ;D
None of that round here, sadly!! :'(
UKgirl
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Thanks Jan and UKgirl for that, it looks like the death of John Tebby in 1842 could well be the John born in 1841.
It seems like i have a lot more research now to find Richards parents and a definite birth, page and folio No of one of the children for a certificate to confirm that Louisa was a Wybrow.
I may have to try close by County's as the 1841 census says they came from out of the county as mentioned earlier.
Seven of the children were only Christened in Leighton in 1857 and 58 and i have found that sometimes they used to say they were born in the place or County the census was in (maybe for convenience).
I will try the trade directories and when i find his death i will see if he left a will. A fair bit of info in them no mater how small or large they are.
Cheers
EddieW 8)
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Found a Louisa Tebby died Sep 1/4 1868 age 63 Leighton Buzzard.
Richard Tebby died Dec 1/4 1863 Leighton Buzzard, must be them.
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Hi Eddie,
That must be them - so where are they hiding in 61? Come to that where is Elizabeth in 81? A very elusive family you have :D I will have another scout round for them.
Leighton Buzzard registration district is mostly Beds but partly in Bucks so this might account for confusion over which county they were born in
see
http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/reg/bdf.htm#leig
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan,
Found Louisa Tebby born abt 1843 in the 1861census, she is a servant with the family of John Millard in Luton.
Tried out Ancestry Com at the local Genealogy Society for an hour, found it slightly confusing, only found the above and it seems You need to take a copy of the original image or you don't get the address or profession. ???
Is this were you get the census and if so how do you like it.
Cheers,
EddieW :)
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Hi
Louisa born 1843 is the only one I've managed to find :'( The other members of the family seem to have vanished in 1861. Still can't find Elizabeth in 1881 either >:(
Jan ;)
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Jan
A lot of my family is elusive, i have some unusual names but the many ways people spell them make it hard sometimes but just have to keep digging and with the help of the kind people on Roots Chat and the websites i come across the family slowly comes together.
EddieW ;)
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Hi Eddie,
Just gone through all your postings here....Did you see the similar family name on
www.leighton-linslade.org
TIBBY instead or TEBBY might not be related but accents round here are mixed .
Tazzie
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Thanks Tazzie
Just checked that out, not sure if they are related but will have to check on them more closely.
Having another look at the site has made me realize i didn't look at the site thoroughly enough as some names look very interesting now. Especially Ann Parker age 9 in 1841 who lives in Workhouse Lane may be the same person that married Charles Tebby in 1855 who also lived in Workhouse Lane.
EddieW :)
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Hi Tazzie
Sidetracking - are your Underwoods from Clophill by any chance?
Jan ;)
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Hi Janan
Not so far! Ottery St Mary -Battlesden/Potsgrove then Leighton Buzzard but who knows I haven't followed all the strays yet -bred like rabbits! ;D
Tazzie
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Tazzie,
Haven't tracked my Underwoods back beyond early 1800's so don't know where they were before then.
Jan ;)
Eddie
In case she is your Ann Parker here she is in 1851
Jan ;)
Workhouse Lane, Martins Yard, Leighton
John Parrot Head M 71 Farmers Labourer Leighton
Elizabeth do Wife 72 Labourer's wife do
Ann Parker Granddaughter Unm 18 Straw Plait maker Bucks Chilsia ??
William do Grandson 14 Curris ?? Labourer Leighton
Thomas do do 10 Farmers boy do
Eliza Church Niece Unm 19 Straw plait maker do
HO107/1756/90 Pg39
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Hi Jan
Again people are doing a disappearing act, the three children are with grandparents.
I did find in FreeBMD a Fanny Parker (maybe the mother in the 1841 census) died Jun 1/4 1843 Leigh Buzz.
I'm almost certain it's the same Ann Parker as she married in 1855 age 23.
EddieW :)
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Possibilities for Elizabeth Tebby in 1881 census.
Eliza Selby 19 birth Bedford, General Servant, living with the Williams family at 3 Villas Green Lane Greenwich Kent Eng.
Eliza White 20 birth Aspley Guise, Bedford, (census at Aspley Guise) married to William White 28 birth Wavendon, Buckingham, Ag Lab.
After going through about 1300 Elizabeth's in the census only these two came anywere near.
EddieW :)
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She is not keen to be found is she :D ::)
I've tried to find William in 1891 to see if he is still with Eliza but no luck >:(
Jan ;)
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False alarm with William and Eliza White, found them in FreeBMD 1891 still at Asply Guise with children.
This only leaves Eliza Selby, servant born in Bedford but will have to get a copy of original form to see if name transcribed properly.
Seems like i will have too be happy with what i have got at the moment, which is a lot more now than i had.
Thanks
EddieW :)
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She is Elizabeth SELBY on the original (sorry!)
A ;)