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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Phil Goater on Monday 20 March 06 15:28 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information on Samuel Parker who features in the 1861 census as a 33 year old gardener living with his wife Louisa and three young children in Swansea (where he was born). There is no sign of the family in 1871 except for the eldest girl. When she married in 1874 her father had already died.
Any help much appreciated.
Phil
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There is a marriage for a louisa parker on freebmd ref. 11a 965 in the june quarter 1874. I dont know if its her but i cant see her as a widow in 1881 so i thought to check out the possibility of a remarriage.
???
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p.s and it is in swansea!! ;)
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There is also a death for a louisa parker in swansea in the march quarter of 1878 ref. 11a 452.
;)
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Thank you badgirl!
I guess I need to supply the rest of my information!
The Louisa who died in 1878 would be Samuel's wife, I thought perhaps she'd gone to Ireland(she was born in Limerick) with the two younger children or re-married.
The Louisa who married in 1874 is their eldest daughter - I have the certificate.
The other two children were Thomas (age3 in 1861) and Ann(1 in 1861). There may have been more after them.
Samuel must have died between 1861 and 1874.
If Louisa died in Swansea in 1878 where was she in 1871?
Still a lot of questions!
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Hi Phil,
Here they are in 1851
Samuel Parker Head Mar 25 Gentleman servant Glamorganshire Swansea
Louisa Parker Wife Mar 20 - Limerick Ireland
John Parker Brother 9 Scholar Glamorganshire Swansea
Newcastle, Bridgend
HO107/2461 folio 686 page 30
Will have a look at 1841
Susan :)
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and 1841
Thomas Parker 37 Gardner Y
Mary Ann Parker 37 Y
Samuel Parker 15 Lab Y
Margreat Parker 13 Y
Mary Ann Parker 10 Y
Maria Parker 7 Y
Sarah Parker 5 Y
William Parker 1 Y
Tramor, Swansea Lower
HO107/1424 folio 7 page 7
Susan
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Many thanks Susan - thats great!
I'd just lined up Thomas and 'Marianne 'as potential parents of Samuel and you have confirmed it and provided a whole host of new relatives!
Louisa junior is given as being born in Bridgend in the 1881 census so that is explained in the 1851 one.
Any chance of finding Samuel's marriage and the maiden name of Louisa senior?
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Sorry I haven't access to parish records. Have you tried the BMD indexes which, at the moment, are free to search on Ancestry?
Susan :)
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Thanks Susan for the advice.
I've discovered Louisa Kirchner on the same page on Free BMD as Samuel in an 1848 marriage that fits. Could you check the Swansea 1841 census for any Kirchner families?
Incidentally the Louisa recorded as dying in 1878 wasn't her as the record gives a birth date circa 1853. It's still a mystery as to what happened to the rest of Louisa (junior)'s family after 1861.
Regards,
Phil
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Hi Phil,
No Kirchner's in Wales 1841, have searched all variants of name.
Susan :)
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Here is a possible marriage for Sam's parents.
Thomas Parker, Oystermouth, married Mary Ann Rosser, from Swansea on 26 March 1826 in Oystermouth Parish.
Cas
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Thank you Susan and Cas.
I checked the LDS 1881 census and found a Benjamin Kirchner aged 60 born Ireland living in Birmingham so he could be a relation. It proves there were Kirchner's in Ireland who came to the mainland at that time.
With regard to Thomas's wedding what can I say? It seems a good fit but if the LDS information that Samuel was christened on 23/7/1826 at Oystermouth is correct then it must have been a large wedding dress!!!
Thanks again,
Phil
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but if the LDS information that Samuel was christened on 23/7/1826 at Oystermouth is correct then it must have been a large wedding dress!!!
Thanks again,
Phil
Hi,
I can confirm that the dates you have from the LDS for a Samuel who was christened in Oystermouth is correct. I have a print out from the archives in Swansea of the christenings at All Saints church Oystermouth for all Parkers during that time ( I'm researching Parker's of mumbles/Oystermouth) .
Samuel parker - mother's name MariAnn, father Thomas ,date - 23rd July 1826
The parish records also gives a bit more information than the LDS info - the father - Thomas's occupation was Lab and the family's address at the time was in Norton.
There is also this one in the church records too:
Margaret Ann christened 4th may 1828. It's the same details as it says for Samuel except for the address they were living at - father's name Thomas , occupation Lab, Mother's name MaryAnn ( but spelled with a y this time), address at the time - Sketty.
You will need to check the original parish records in the archives to check the spelling for MariAnn
There are only eight Parker christenings during this period of time (1700's to early 1900's) at oystermouth All saints church , six of them are from the family I'm researching , the other two , who are not related to mine are Samuel and Margaret Parker with father Thomas and mother MariAnn.
I Hope that helps :)
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Thank you Cell!
I can now turn my attention to who may have wielded the shotgun!
I'm interested to note that there is no record of Thomas's christening as the report (above) of his wedding states 'Thomas Parker Oystermouth'. Margaret's christening clearly tallies with the census information.
I'm still in the dark with regard to what happened to Samuel and Louisa and the two younger children who feature in the 1861 census and would be very interested to find out more (- but I am delighted with the progress to date!)
Regards,
Phil
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This is the only other marriage on the disc that matches name/area. There are some in Swansea area. Do not know if related, but my help your search in parish records. Possible ref for Tom's parents
John Parker Oystermouth, married Margaret Morgan Oystermouth on 27 Oct 1795 at Oystermouth parish.
Cas
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Thanks Cas, the date certainly looks good.
Can Cell add ( or subtract!) anything on this?
It looks very promising.
Phil
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This is the only other marriage on the disc that matches name/area. There are some in Swansea area. Do not know if related, but my help your search in parish records. Possible ref for Tom's parents
John Parker Oystermouth, married Margaret Morgan Oystermouth on 27 Oct 1795 at Oystermouth parish.
Cas
you're going into my tree now ;D ( well my hubby's tree) - John Parker and Mary Morgan are my hubby's G,G. G. G grandparents
John parker 1770 and Mary Morgan1776 ( her parents David Morgan1749 and Margaret 1753) had a son William parker 1802 ( one of their brothers was named Thomas who was born around about 1804) who married Elizabeth Morgan ( William did not Thomas) - another Morgan, just to confuse matters more lol) , who then had a son John parker 1838 (he had only one sister Elizabeth, william the father died just inbetween 1838 and 41,( I guess it was at sea, I can't find a death at all , he was mariner) when the children were toddlers. The mother never remarried again - This John parker was also a mariner like his father William , and also served time on the Mumbles life boats, lived all his life in Mumbles/oystermouth ( as did his next generation, my mum -in-law is still living there today in her father's (fred's) old house which was passed down to her) - () married Catherine ( kate for short) Rogers - had a daughter Kate (Catherine) Parker ( I have an old photo of kate parker as an old lady) who married George Williams , who had a son Fred Williams ( hubby's granddad)
confused yet?
Parker is a Devon name, they used to come across the water from Illfracombe into Gower, back and fore , mariners mostly. It is not an old Welsh, or Gower name. It's very "common" in Devon. There are millions of them over there . You may find that Your (phil's ) parker could very well go back into Devon at some point in time , I know my above husband's lot do . Then it's a nightmare to trace them because of the amount of people with a Parker name in Devon - it's just a short boat ride over them from Oystermouth. You can actually see Devon on a clear day from certain points in Gower.
:)
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Thank you Cell,
I take it that Thomas c.1803 isn't as far as you know, the son of John and Mary.
Your discourse on the origin of the Parkers is interesting. I have also had the pleasure of viewing Devon from the Gower and hope to do so again before too long! This is my wife's maternal line I am investigating. On her Dad's side I've already got a Parker from the Yeovil area. In my own tree my maternal grandmother was a Parker from Wells, Somerset so there could be ancestors in common. However the name, due to it's very nature, must have a variety of unconnected roots.
My immediate concern is to find Thomas's parents. The information that's been provided from the 1841 census doesn't specify his place of birth so I'm hoping someone might kindly find him in the 1851 census.
Regards,
Phil
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Thank you Cell,
I take it that Thomas c.1803 isn't as far as you know, the son of John and Mary.
Your discourse on the origin of the Parkers is interesting. I have also had the pleasure of viewing Devon from the Gower and hope to do so again before too long! This is my wife's maternal line I am investigating. On her Dad's side I've already got a Parker from the Yeovil area. In my own tree my maternal grandmother was a Parker from Wells, Somerset so there could be ancestors in common. However the name, due to it's very nature, must have a variety of unconnected roots.
My immediate concern is to find Thomas's parents. The information that's been provided from the 1841 census doesn't specify his place of birth so I'm hoping someone might kindly find him in the 1851 census.
Regards,
Phil
As far as I know a Thomas is their son, I haven't traced what happened to Williams siblings, and I don't think my hubby has either as far as I can see.
I'll look at the 51 census for you if nobody else can - but perhaps someone else can do it for you ( I'm really rushed for time here, and trying to type this quickly - I have a young baby that's needs attending to, so I'm just grabbing five minutes here and there on the computer at the moment)
:)
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P.s ,
I've just tried to attach a scan for you of the christenings from all Saint's church, but there doesn't seem to be an attach image box on messages on this board - so I'll put it on the main Glamorgan board bit for you - it will be titled "Parker christenings"
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Hi Phil/Cell (Cell you get that baby attended to :D )
As yet haven't found Thomas or Mary Ann in 1851, looked for William thought he may be easier ??? Noooo....
Did find
Ann Parker Head Widow 45 Greengrocer Glamorganshire Swansea
Maria Parker Daur. U 17 Servant Glamorganshire Mumbles
Sarah Parker Daur. U 15 Servant Glamorganshire Mumbles
Jane Parker Daur. U 7 Scholar Glamorganshire Mumbles
Clarence St., Swansea
HO107/2466 folio 189 page 47
Bit of a long shot but the ages of the two daughters fits with 1841. Will have another look tomorrow with fresh eyes, unless someone beats me to it ;D
Susan :)
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I have not been able to find a match for Thomas or Mary Ann in the 1851.
The only match for some of the children is below. Not sure if it is the right family
HO107/2466 Folio 189 Pg 47
Swansea
Address - Rees? County, Clarence Street, Swansea
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Check Freebmd for a possible death for Thomas and William? The older girls are prob in service or married. There is another son 'John' with brother Samuel above.
Hope this helps, unless anyone else can add.
Cas
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Thank you Susan and Cas for stepping into the breach!
It seems likely that you found the family. I have found the record of the death of a Thomas in Swansea in the December quarter of 1843 and of a William in the June quater of 1842. That would explain their absence.
Still looking for the demise of Thomas's son Samuel and wife Louisa together with any record of their children Thomas and Ann.
Regards,
Phil
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you're going into my tree now ;D ( well my hubby's tree) - John Parker and Mary Morgan are my hubby's G,G. G. G grandparents
John parker 1770 and Mary Morgan1776 ( her parents David Morgan1749 and Margaret 1753) had a son William parker 1802 ( one of their brothers was named Thomas who was born around about 1804) who married Elizabeth Morgan ( William did not Thomas) - another Morgan, just to confuse matters more lol) , who then had a son John parker 1838 (he had only one sister Elizabeth, william the father died just inbetween 1838 and 41,( I guess it was at sea, I can't find a death at all , he was mariner) when the children were toddlers. The mother never remarried again - This John parker was also a mariner like his father William , and also served time on the Mumbles life boats, lived all his life in Mumbles/oystermouth ( as did his next generation, my mum -in-law is still living there today in her father's (fred's) old house which was passed down to her) - () married Catherine ( kate for short) Rogers - had a daughter Kate (Catherine) Parker ( I have an old photo of kate parker as an old lady) who married George Williams , who had a son Fred Williams ( hubby's granddad)
confused yet?
This is a message for Cell. Is there a way we can make contact? My email address is XXX I have a feeling, if I have done my tree correct, that our families are linked. Kate Parker and George Williams would have been the parents of my Grandmother (My Dads Mother),Georgina Williams. By reading above it looks like it could be. Fred Williams was the younger brother of Georgina? There was also 6 other sisters. From reading above it seems it could be, and I would presume your mother in law is my dads cousin. I have only just started doing my Tree and have spent most of the time on my Grandads side so dont have much info on this side. Apart from The names of George Williams and Kate Parker children which I got from the 1911 census. If I have this right, It would be great if you can help me get more information about this side, especially if you have any photos of George and Kate.
Thanks
Alan
Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the personal message system to contact other users privately.
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Just sent you a private message,
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Hi '
I've only just read the above, yes if your grandmother is Georgina.
Your dad is my mother in law's 1st cousin.
I've just Pm'd you some info/questions.
Kind regards
.
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ive posted a reply on your Louisa Kirchner post
after Samuel Parker died Louisa Kirchner remarried in Stafford to Thomas Hill in 1881
in 1881 census she is living with
Thomas Hill , husband
Samuel hill, son
Joseph hill, son ,
Elizabeth hill , daughter
and Ellen (Nellie) Collins (my mothers cousin who was on holiday there)
in 1901 she is living in lower gornal, staffordshire with her son Samuel p Hill and his family and Nellie Collins who never did come home from her holiday!
the children of Louisa that i know of are-
Louisa Parker b 1854 Swansea
Thomas Samuel Parker b 1857 Swansea
Ann mariah Parker b 1859 (my great grandmother) Swansea
Samuel hill b 1862 Swansea
Joseph hill b 1865 Swansea
Elizabeth hill b 1868 Swansea
... i assume that the last three took their step fathers name but were infact children of samuel parker
kath
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Thanks Kath,
I guessed you must be descended from Ann Maria. As far as I can tell Samuel died aged 36 in 1861 and is buried at Oystermouth where his Parker family came from (his Parker ancestors having originally crossed over from Ilfracombe in Devon). That would explain why the Hill name features for those born after 1861. Where did Thomas Hill hail from? My wife is descended from the eldest daughter Louisa Parker who married John Tasker in Swansea. When I have time I will dig out and scan the old photo to see if it bears any relation to yours. Watch this space!
Regards,
Phil
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thanks very much
i havent done much work on Samuel Parker so your info is brilliant
louisa and samuels wedding was witnessed by mary ann parker with a x ive found an igi record for mary ann parker born 1830 in swansea father thomas parker and mother mary ann rosser
Thomas Hill was born in Lower Gornal, staffs- he was a brick maker..... there dont seem to be any children from that marriage
the louisa parker thats related to your wife - did she die in 1878 in swansea?
im wracking my brains at the mo regarding john tasker ...ive heard my late mum talk about him
ill ring my aunty in the morning to see what she knows
my mum was a veritable fountain of info who actively kept in touch with all her cousins and spent holidays in lower gornal with aunty beat , lottie and billy
unfortunately she passed away last year and my memory isnt half as good as hers was.
lovely to "meet" you
kath