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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: Kim Pearce on Tuesday 21 March 06 17:05 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information on the Kneale family. According to census returns, Eliza Kneale was born in Ramsey (about 1843), daughter of William who was a builder. Can anyone help me?
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Hi Kim,
The IGI online is always the best place to start your search for IOM ancestors - http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true. Also look at Brian Lawsons's site which has lots of useful indexes - www.lawsons.ca.
IGI gives an Elizabeth Kneale, d/o William Kneale and Margaret Quayle on 26 Aug 1842 in Ramsey.
Can't find any other children for William and Margaret.
William and Margaret married on 26 May 1842 in Maughold.
Which census is your information from? I couldn't find her on the Island in 1851. Only one Eliza Kneale born 1843 in Ramsey, but living with her widowed mother Ann (seems to be the family of George Kneale and Ann Corlett).
Cheers,
Ruth
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Hello Ruth,
My info is from the 1881 Wales census. Eliza Kneale was married to William Hitchings by this time. The census gave me her birthplace, their marriage certificate gave me her maiden name.
Neither Eliza nor Kneale are popular names here in Canada, so I thought tracking her down would be easy. I was surprised to see how common both names are! Another respondent said they had found an "Eliza Thomson", daughter of William Kneale and Eliza Thomson, christened on Oct 01, 1841 in Lezayre. 2 of Eliza's daughters have the initial "T" in their names, so this Eliza is also a possibility.
I hope I haven't hit a dead end.
Kim
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Hi Kim,
From looking at FreeBMD it seems the Thompson lead may be looking good. Jane T in 1881 looks to be Jane Thompson Hitchings.
But on the IOM Eliza would still have been officially known as Eliza Kneale and I can't find her on the early censuses in IOM or Eng/Wales. Unless her mother married someone else soon after she was born and Eliza took her step father's name.
I'm not sure what you can do from here. Try posting a query on http://www.isle-of-man.com/cgi-bin/interests/genealogy/bulletin/index.pl as this is where you will find people who know all there is to know about IOM genealogy.
Good luck,
Ruth
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Hi Kim
I have just started a search of my own, into our 'Kneale' family tree and have only my grandfather to work on.
His name is Joesph Lewis Kneale....otherwise known as Lewis. He was born in the Isle of Man at the end of the mid 1890's he had 3 other siblings, and we do know he had a sister who moved to Canada, as my grandmother (Elizabeth Kneale-(Nee Ryan)-Ch-Ch NZ) Kept in touch for a number of years when Lewis died I have no idea of her name or anything but maybe she could be related, their is mention of a James and Margerat Kneale being his parents, so maybe there could be a connection somewhere!!
I hope this helps you in your search. If by chance these names have popped up, it would be great for that info to be passed on....I am only young myself and have absolutly no idea on this family stuff!!!
Regards from good old New Zealand
Bernie Edgecombe
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Hi Bernie!
I still have learned very little about the Kneale side of our family. We do seem to have confirmed that Eliza's parents were William Kneale and Jane Thompson, who do not appear to have been married. Jane married a man by the name of "Parry" later in life and we have located their gravesite in Wales.
My Greatgrandmother and her 3 children moved to Canada, after the death of my Greatgrandfather. She was the daughter of Eliza Kneale and her name was Reid (born Hitchings).
If you learn more about your Kneale family, I would love to see if we are related. I will repost if I learn anything more about my Kneales.
Cheers from Montreal!
Kim
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Way back in My Callow tree I have Bel-Ann Callow,b-1824 Maughold IOM married to a Thomas Kneale in 31 Dec 1844 Maughold IOM.They have at least 1 child Thomas Kneale-that is all the info i have on them.Does that connect to any of your Kneales?
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The only documented information I have is from census reports, which show my Greatgreatgrandmother's maiden name as being Kneale and that she was born in Ramsey IOM. I have some leads on her and her family but so far none of it is documented.
Do you have anything documented on your Kneales?
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Sorry I have little 'documentation' of IOM family.Most I have learned from fellow links/cousins etc in my Callow line .The only 'docs' I have are related to when my Callows moved to Scotland.
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I'll see what I can do to document our Kneals over the next month of so. I'll let you know if we cross paths.
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There is a site findmypast.co.uk [it's a paid site but it does give access to records.
Re: your Eliza Kneale.I found several Census which i believe is the right one.
1851- Ann Kneale Widower b-1811.Occ Propietor of Houses. b-Lezayre IOM.
Ann Kneale Dau.b- 1833. Occ Miliner.b-Ramsay IOM.
Elizabeth Kneale. b-1835. Occ Dressmaker Appr.b-Andreas IOM .
Catherine Kneale b- 1838 Scholar b-Ramsay IOM.
Eliza Kneale dau b- 1843 Scholar b-Ramsay IOM.
Frederick Kneale.b-1844 Scholar b- Ramsay IOM.
RG # Ho107 address Parliament St. Maughold IOM.
1861.- Ann Kneale Widower. b-1810. Lezayre IOM.
Elizabeth Kneale Dau. b- 1835 Miliner Andreas IOM
Jane Kneale Dau. b- 1838.Miliner.b-Ramsay IOM
Catherine Kneale Dau. b- 1840 Miliner.b-Ramsay
Eliza Kneale b- 1842.miliner.b-RamsayIOM
Address Parliament St Maughold
More to follow.
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1901 Censu address 8 Castle St Llanbeblig Wales.
Eliza Hitchings Head b- 1842 Corset Maker b Ramsay IOM
William Hitchings son b-1872 sorting clerk at telegraphist in post office b-Canarvon Wales
Grace T Hitchings Dau b-1880 Corset Maker b Canarvon Wales.
Lucretia Hitchings Dau b-1883.Corset maker b- Canarvon Wales.
Henry O Hitchings Son b- 1886 Scholar b-Canarvon Wales
Joan T Hitchings Dau b- 1890 Scholar b-Canarvon Wales.
Hope this fills in some blanks If I can be of anymore help let me know.I also found possible census for my Callow /Kneale
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Sorry seem to have lost #2 of 3 entries .Here we go again.
1881 census RG#RG10 High St Llanbiblig Wales
Jane Parry Head.B-1814 Scotland
William Hitchings Son in law b-1840 Cornwall
Elizabeth wife b-1843 IOM
Jane Thomson Hitchings Dau b-1868 Canarvon Wales.
Eliza Ann Hitchings Dau b-1871 Canarvon Wales.
1881 census RG# RG11 Address 8 castle St Llanbeblig Wales
William Hitchings Head b- 1840 Draper /book agent b-Stithians Cornwall
Eliza Hitchings wife b-1843 Ramsay IOM
Jane T Hitchings Dau b-1868 Canarvon Wales
Eliza T hitchings Dau b-1871 Canarvon Wales
William A Hitchings son b- 1872 Canarvon Wales.
Edith M Hitchings Dau b- 1874 Canarvon Wales
John P hitchings son b- 1878 Canarvon Wales
Grace T Hitchings dau b- 1880. canarvon Wales.
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Hi SheenaJ,
The later censuses are definitely my family. The earlier ones, however, I'm not sure about. The show the mom of the family as being named Ann, whereas I know that my Eliza's mom's name was Jane.
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hi Kim Glad some were correct.I'll have another check for Jane next time I'm on .cheers Sheena
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Hi Sheena,
Perhaps this may be of help. I have received photos of the Hitchings family tombstones in Carnarvon. On her tombstone, Eliza Hitchings (nee Kneale) her birthdate is indicated as being 21 September 1842. Her mother, Jane, shows as being born app 1814.
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Hi Kim. Okay a 1851 IOM Census search on findmypast.com found
William Kneale head -widower age 33 born 1818 Stone mason Malew IOM
Eliza kneale Dau age 9 born 1842 scholar Malew IOM
RG # HO107 piece 2526 Folio 14.
Address Douglas Rd Malew IOM
Could this be your Eliza.could not find her anywhere 1861
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Hmmm, I wonder if Jane Parry, who I believed was Eliza's mother, was actually her stepmother. I think the time has come to order birth, death and marriage certificates for the events that took place in Wales.
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Probably :)
As I mentioned in previous message the only other Eliza was the one with 'Ann' maybe she was liza's mother
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Hi Sheena,
I can't find a census with this entry:
"Sorry seem to have lost #2 of 3 entries .Here we go again.
1881 census RG#RG10 High St Llanbiblig Wales
Jane Parry Head.B-1814 Scotland
William Hitchings Son in law b-1840 Cornwall
Elizabeth wife b-1843 IOM
Jane Thomson Hitchings Dau b-1868 Canarvon Wales.
Eliza Ann Hitchings Dau b-1871 Canarvon Wales."
This is definitely my family so I would like to see the census and make a copy of it for my records.
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Morning. The census info I found on the web site www.findmypast.com It is a paying site and I was able to look due to having taken out a subscription.
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Hi Sheena,
I had purchased some credits on findmypast but I think I might get a subscription. Folks are finding things on this site that I am not finding on Ancestry.
Thanks for all the help! I seem to be making quite a bit of progress as a result.
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Glad it's all coming together for you.
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I am also searching for Kneale family information. Has anyone looked in the Manx BMD? I don't live in the IOM so I can't search there. Just checking if anyone else has.
I am looking for info on my Grandmother Gladys Ednor Kneale born in 1917 in Jurby. Her father died when he was young and the children were put into a children's home in Ramsey. She had about 7 other siblings and her mothers maiden name was Howland. I don't know her parents Christian names. Sisters names possibly include Florence, Bunter, Dora and brothers Arthur, John and Thomas.
Does this info ring any bells for anyone? I'm desperate and frustrated :{
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I am looking for any hits on a Richard Neal or Kneal from IOM emigration to Stratford Ont. in the mid 1800's. Any ancestry would be appreciated.
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you shouldn't really 'steal' another thread but Richard Kneale(or similar) fairly unusual name - Richard Kneale s/o Wm Kneale + Cath Cowley bapt Marown 18340413 - in 1841 father Wm a lead miner (in 1851 lead miner + farmer of 10ac - still there in 1861 but Richard (in 1851 learning to be a lead miner) appaers not to be in IoM census
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Thanks to all with your interesting info on the Kneals. I have been told by my grandmother our neal family came from IOM in 1840 to 1860. I believe my great-great grandfather emigrated to perth county, ontario, and then my great grandfather Daniel Neal emigrated to upstate N.Y. Richard Kneal or Neal may have dropped the "K" along the way.
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Hi my name as you can see is Orry Kneale my family heritage from the isle of man goes back too one of the last kings of the isle of man back in the 9th century when the vikings ruled the island to to that point there are also ships that share the same first name with me because of that because one of the last kings of the island was in fact called orry kneale III i am in-fact as far as we can tell orry kneale XII so my heritage goes back a very long way my father Howard orry kneale was the son of William orry kneale who was also a builder Kim if you did have a younger or older brother called Howard please let me know as i have three aunts but never met them.
best wishes to all
Orry Kneale.
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Only one brother, not named Howard. Sorry.
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Hello, I am a newby at this so please excuse my ignorance! My heritage has been researched back to Edmund Kneale son of Edmund Kneale and Esther Garrett christened in Ramsay April 16th 1822. I have found him on the 1841 census and believe the children at least (Edmund 15 Matthias 10, Robert 8 Edward 6 and Esther 5.) travelled to Ballarat, Australia (where I live). Does anyone else have any links to this family or have suggestions as to where to go next?? My family are visiting Isle of Man late June, early July and would love to visit something, somewhere but just don't know where!! Thank you
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Kaighin's Court must have been one of the small blocks of houses off Strand street in Ramsey but can't find it marked on the 1868 O/S plan and names doesn't appear in any directory- nothing is left of this area as it was totally removed both by development of the Shore Rd in late 19th Cenury then by slum clearance of most of old Ramsey in the 1960s
I suspect mother Esther Kneale as Garret is buried age 48 Lezayre 18431112 (certainly can't find her or family in 1851 census) - burial in Lezayre is somewhat strange as that part of Ramsey was in Maughold
I suspect Edmund may also be buried in Lezayre 18440523 age 63 (tho this doesn't quite match age on census but large differences in ages between husb + wife were often 'adjusted'
If these are they then Edmund looks to be son of John Kneale and Catherine als Kneale bapt Lez 17811104 (this may explain burial in Lezayre) with Esther dau of Wm Garret + Esther Christian bapt Ram 17931023
If they emigrated prior to 1851 then this is fairly early for Manx Emigration to Australia - have you found them on an immigration record?
What to see ? it is possible that there is a grave marker (Memorial Inscription) in Lezayre - big yard check with library in Manx Museum (open Tues-Sat 10am - 5pm) as they have transcriptions of all yards + plans
but they don't appear to be well off and there may not have been enough money to pay for a stone
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Thank you so much for such a prompt reply! I have been told that in February 1853, Edward James Kneale, the 5th of 9 children to Edmund and Esther, together with one of his brothers William, arrived in Melbourne from the Isle of Man aboard the ship Una. Robert William had left prior in 1851. WE have no records of the parents Edmund and Esther.
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Are their parents named (+ professions/whether deceased etc) in any marriages of Edward etc in Australia ?
Catch is that Kneal(e) (+ Neil Neal etc in earlier periods) name is fairly common and Edmond/Edmund is also fairly common in the Maughold/Lezayre/Ramsey area - also the common abbreviation Edmd is very easily misread for Edwd (Edward)
There is an 83yr old Esther Garrett (gmother?) buried in Ramsey on 10 Nov 1846 (actually Ballure - look up on my website www.manxnotebook.com) but I can't find her in 1841 census - Ballure was somewhat of a strange yard usually used for burials of infants and strangers. Possibly she had no family left on Island - maybe the children had gone to England to obtain work prior to emigration as I can't immediate spot them in the 1851 IoM census
There would be no direct sailing from IoM (apart from two Manx built special vessels - eg read about the Vixen of Peel) - the usual emigration port for Australia would be London (not sure re Liverpool which was the usual port of emigration of Manx to USA/Canada) - young men were attracted in 1851 by the gold rush tho most made little if any money
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Yes further search finds Edmond (here I find a different spelling??) was baptised 5/7/1796 in Lezyare and married Esther (from Ramsay) in 1816. Occupation carpenter. Believe he was the son of Ewan Kneale and Margaret Knickell. Una sailed from Liverpool apparently, apologies for previous comment re IOM. I am yet to find passenger lists but believe there were many deaths on board. It is indeed where Edmund and Esther ended up that has resulted in nothing. Many many thanks again!