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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Sonia Gardener on Sunday 26 March 06 20:04 BST (UK)
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Within my fathers service records is the information that he was overseas BEF 1.4.40 to 23.6.40 , Unit 3 Supp Per. Coy. interned in Switzerland from 24.6.40 to 5.11.42. and reported new at St Hippolyle Le Fort 4.9.41 approx. From there he was taken to a prison camp near Nice. I also have a copy of a collage of The British Military Internment Camp, Switzerland, with the following printed on the back:
Bewilligt Seitens der Sektion Film im Armeestab unterm 22.10.40. What does this mean?
My father was John William Parker Corps RASC No S 129574.
Would anyone be able to tell me which POW camps the above information might refer to and where I might be able to gain further information.
Many thanks
Sonia
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This sounds like your relative evaded capture by the Germans in 1940 and managed to get across the Swiss frontier. Switzerland being a neutral was obliged to intern soldiers from whatever country.
I don't understand the Nice reference. That would have been in Vichy France until occupied by the Germans. Perhaps he tried to get back to Britain but got caught in Southern France before the Germans took over.
Regards,
Roger
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thanks Roger - yes I think that is how events happened. What I don't know is the name of the camps - most of what I find relates to Stalags of different numbers and am not sure if I am looking for a particular stalag.
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using bablefish (my german isn't up to it!))
the translation is
Granted on the part of the section film in the army staff unterm (it doesn't like the last word) i would guess unter or unten ...below or beneath so it's probably an official swiss photograph
what an intriging story you have there... as roger says Nice wasn't really occupied at that time..why was he there?
I'll dig out some POW sites and references for you
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according to a newspaper article my father escaped from the Swiss camp and went to Vichy France where he was picked up by the French Military and ended up in a prison camp at St Hippolyte and from there to a camp nr Nice in 1942 from where he escaped again an eventually got to Gibralta. Quite an adventure!!!
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fantastic!! what a man :o
i imagine the temptation to spend the war in a swiss camp would have been great
i guess ( and i mean guess) that Unit 3 Supp Per. Coy would have been set up just to supply new soldiers to the BEF
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From what you wrote, it does not look like your relative was in a German POW camp. As you say there were Stalags (for enlisted personnel) and Oflags for officers. Greater Germany was divided into military districts known as Wehrkreise. Each one had a number of POW camps. For instance, WK XII Wiesbaden had Oflag XIIB (Hadamar), Stalag XIIA (Limburg), XIID (Trier) and XIIF (Forbach) in 1944.
Roger
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thanks both of you for your input into this - as I never knew (or met) my father then all the information I can gather helps greatly. I really would like to pinpoint the camps he was at so that I can look at all the info about them on the internet and build up a picture as to what my father experienced
thanks again Sonia
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Hi Sonia,
sorry to be 2yrs late. I only came across your Post when looking through the Archive.
Your Father did escape as a P.O.W. He was mentioned in dispatches for his efforts.
He made a Report when he arrived in the U.K. and if you would like a copy you can get one from The National Archives in London.
You could use the telephone and ask for a quote for a copy of Report No. 956 made by Pte.J.W.Parker R.A.S.C. from WO 208/3311,or you could order a copy online.
Shouldn't be too expensive and will tell you all you ever wanted to know.
Brian
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what a wonderful surprise - many, many thanks - copy is now ordered
best wishes
Sonia
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Let us know what it says!
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finally received the report and what a wonderful document it is. 2 full pages of information with my father's route, means of escape, who he was with and the names of the camps he was in. Biezwill, Munchenbuchsee and Fort De La Revere are all mentioned. The last sentence reads We were moved to Fort De La Revere on 17 March 42 from which we escaped on 5 Sept. As the top of the document has left Gibraltar 1st November 42 Arrived Portreath 2 November 42 I am presuming theres another tale there for the missing months.
Going to try to digest it all now and see what else I can find out on the net about these camps
Thank you so much for the reference to this document
best wishes
Sonia
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Hi Sonia,
perhaps the reports of others who were travelling with him would tell more.
Brian
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finally received the report and what a wonderful document it is. 2 full pages of information with my father's route, means of escape, who he was with and the names of the camps he was in. Biezwill, Munchenbuchsee and Fort De La Revere are all mentioned. The last sentence reads We were moved to Fort De La Revere on 17 March 42 from which we escaped on 5 Sept. As the top of the document has left Gibraltar 1st November 42 Arrived Portreath 2 November 42 I am presuming theres another tale there for the missing months.
Going to try to digest it all now and see what else I can find out on the net about these camps
Thank you so much for the reference to this document
best wishes
Sonia
Hi again Sonia,
you could be doubly lucky. When your Father made his Escape Report he gave further information that was not released at the time when WO208/3311 was.
Looking through my records I have found the appendecise to the original Report in WO208/5582. The Report is still under the same No. 956.
So as before if you want a copy you have to ask for Report No.956 made by Pte.J.W.Parker 129574 from File WO208/5582.
This should fill in some of the blanks.
Brian
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Hi Brian
not sure what's happening here - tried again but had the sense to copy reply before sending again and just in case I'm sending it this route - so sorry if you get it twice!!
I sent you a reply giving names but there seems to have been a hiccup
names mentioned are Private J Moran No 3519361 with whom my father made the report. The seem to have been together for some time and went through different camps togerther right up to 5 Aug 1941 interned at St Hippolyte. From there my father escaped with Pte Blewitt 2 Nov but was recaptured 5 days later and sent to Fort De La Revere 5 Sept
thanks for the other info - I'll send off for that as well
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Hi Brian
just to let you know another page arrived today and it does fill in the missing info from my fathers and Morans escape from Fort de la Revere. Wonderful reading. It does name names of people who helped them which I don't think I aught to reveal here. I don't want a MOD man knocking on my door!!! I now would like to get some background info on the camps (Biezwill, Munchenbuchsee, St Hippolyte and Fort de la Revere) I've done a quick look but info seems to be all about stalags or American POWs. Any idea where I can go from here?
Sonia
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I found this on a New Zealand site .... ! you might find some other information of interest Sonia :)
Fort de la Revere .... not far from Nice ..... where all military internees in unoccupied France were being assembled ....... proved to be a depressing old fortress - very over-crowded and short of water
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/name-034887.html
And I don't know if Brian already gave you this site but your Dad and Moran are both listed here ... maybe the site will give you some background !
http://www.conscript-heroes.com/escapelines/SPGnumbers.html
http://www.conscript-heroes.com/index.html
Annie :)
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Hi Brian
just to let you know another page arrived today and it does fill in the missing info from my fathers and Morans escape from Fort de la Revere. Wonderful reading. It does name names of people who helped them which I don't think I aught to reveal here. I don't want a MOD man knocking on my door!!! I now would like to get some background info on the camps (Biezwill, Munchenbuchsee, St Hippolyte and Fort de la Revere) I've done a quick look but info seems to be all about stalags or American POWs. Any idea where I can go from here?
Sonia
Great News Sonia,
with the File being released the content is no longer considered sensitive as anyone can access it.
The next place you should try is the EX P.O.W. Association. I think Phil Chinnery will have collected information over the years on Fort de la Revere from the Veterans.
There does appear to be Published information regarding the place on Google.
Keep us updated.
Brian
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thanks Brian and Annie I have now come across various references and I'm building up quite a picture of it all. Thanks for all your help - I would never have got this far without it.
Sonia
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Phillip Chinnery,Ex P.O.W. Association. nexpowa@fsmail.net
Brian
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thanks Brian - I'll get in touch with him - it could prove a two-way source of information.
Sonia
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I was searching for more info my fathers internment at Biezwil (he was R.A.S.C.) when I came across this post so I joined to reply to you Sonia.
My father saved some things and so I have quite a few photographs and other information about there from stories told me by my father.
They worked on helping on some of the mountain railway whilst there and I have photos of this, photos of a soldiers funeral , also and of them marching through the village and such.
If it will help I can scan and upload these for you. It could be (with luck) your father is on them and you might recognize him.
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Hello Bobby 51
How wonderful to hear from you - it never ceases to amaze me how messages on this forum crop up out of the blue with new information.
I'd love to have copies of the photos you have - thank you so much for the offer. I'll check back on all my info to see it there is anything that will be of interest for you in return. Have to go out just now so will do that on return.
regards
Sonia
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I have about 20 or 30 I could email you a zip file but here are some for you to see what I am talking of.
Regards Bobby
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Hi Bob
thank you so much for the photos - unfortunately the one of your Dad did not come out - just a little logo in top left corner. However the others are very interesting to see, what wonderful treasures you have there.
My father entered the Army as a chef but he became a storeman during his Army career. I have only the basic facts from his service record so even the photos you have sent help me to build a picture of his time.
best wishes
Sonia
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PS - just discovered how to open the other photo!!! Which one is your Dad? They all look happy and well which is strange as we have these dreadful images of POW camps in our heads.
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Hi Sonia,
I know this discussion was started a long time ago, but I just wanted to get in touch in case you still look here.
I am the grand daughter of the man named Moran that your father was with during the Second World War.
My family and I have been trying to research what happened to him during this time, without success until now, but happened to stumble across your post today and it would be great if we could get in contact to talk more about what you know.
We will be going to the National Archives ourselves now we have the correct references to get his account but if anyone has any more recommendations on what to do next that would be very helpful.
Many thanks
Ellie
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Hi Ellie
I've sent you a PM as I'm struggling to get a scanned document through to you
Sonia
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Hi Sonia,
Thank you so much for your reply and my PM. I can't reply on there for some reason but my email address is
Looking forward to talking more!
Many thanks
Ellie
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Hi - I have just joined having seen a mention of Munchenbuchsee Internment Camp. My uncle Jack Tilson was there until 17 March 1942 when he was accidentally killed while trying to escape, a warning bullet ricoched and hit him in the back. Despite trying for the last couple of years I have not been able to find any additional information until I found your website.
I noticed the date of Jack's death was the same one mentioned by Sonia Gardner -
'Biezwill, Munchenbuchsee and Fort De La Revere are all mentioned. The last sentence reads We were moved to Fort De La Revere on 17 March 42 from which we escaped on 5 Sept.'
I would love to hear more and will try and get the report Brian mentions. Do you know if there are any mentions of Jack Tilson in the report Sonia? Thanks, Linda
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Hello Linda
I have gone through all my file for my father's army service but unfortunately I have found no mention of Jack Tilson. The documents I received from the National Archives referred to the statements my father made regarding his escape. I am so sorry I cannot help you but don't give up as often information pops up long after you put in a request.
Good luck with your research
Sonia
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Thanks so much for checking Sonia. As you say I will keep trying, it has been one of those things that have really bothered me. I couldn't understand why the Swiss would fire on him - I still can't get it. I recently found a reference to a book in which Munchenbuchsee was mentioned and the person who was reporting his experiences seems to suggest that he could come and go at will, so I am mystified at why other soldiers couldn't. Maybe this person was trying to pass themselves off as a civilian. In case you are interested the book is 'The Avro Manchester: The Legend Behind the Lancaster' https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pAIkDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT479&dq=munchenbuchsee+the+lancaster&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1mOih7cHdAhUMLcAKHdJjDXcQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=munchenbuchsee%20the%20lancaster&f=false