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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: 'Tricia on Tuesday 28 March 06 14:03 BST (UK)
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Hi, Colin - I am posting your message here in case anyone else can add to it - you never know
I wonder if you could find a mo to help?
I am trying to find anything I can about the origins of Claude Hayes, the first husband of my geat Uncles wife, who died in 1916 on the Somme.
She was Nahneen Yvonne POWER and was born 24 July 1892 but we have no idea where.
He was Claude Julian Patrick HAYES and they wed in 1914 in a civil ceremony somewhere in London and then in Paris at Notre Dame.
I found his burial at Bray Military Cemetery in France. He was in the 1st Batallion the Royal Fusiliers.
We think his 'style' was Captain the Hon C J P Hayes but can find nothing more about him.
My 83 year old cousin who would have been his step daughter believes there is an Irish connection.
Could you please do a look up in the 1901 Census to see if he was here, perhaps at school then. I estimate he would be between 8 and 14?
Thanks in anticipation
Answer
Connection appears to be Indian, not Irish at moment
I suspect this is him in 1901 and judging by the wife's first name suspect she was also born abroad. Cannot trace a birth registration over here for her
1901 census
16 Merton Hall Road Wimbledon
Edith A V Hayes,Head age 35, Married, Living on own means b. Notting Hill, London
P V E Hayes,son age 14 b. Canterbury, Kent,
C J Patrick Hayes,son age 13 b. Kurracher, India
Audrey E L Hayes dau age 11 b. Hythe, Kent
Aylmer T D S Hayes,son age 9 months b. Wimbledon, Surrey
Margaret E Lee ,servant age 35 Nurse b. S Wales, Glamorgan, Wales
Emily E Bluck,servant age 20 Cook b. Leatherhead, Surrey
Rosina Bluck,servant age 15 Housemaid b. Leatherhead, Surrey
RG13/660 Kingston Wimbledon
Folio: 42
Page: 11
Tricia
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Hope you don' mind if I answer this way. It is easier to add to this thread compared to seperate messages.
If you now add a reply you will receive any future answers.
I'll see what else I can find on this family
Tricia
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1891 census
Eversleigh
Julian P S Hayes,Head age 32 Surgeon Army Medical Staff b. Kensington, London
Edith A V Hayes,wife age 24 b. Kensington, London
Philip V E Hayes ,son age 4 b. Canterbury, Kent
Claud J P Hayes,son age 3 b. India
Audry E L Hayes ,dau age 1 b. Hythe, Kent
Annie G Waters Mother in Law age 46 Widow Living on own means b. Manchester Lancs
Alice S Welman Sister Marr, age 29 b. India
Eileen V Welman Niece age 4 b. India
& 3 servants
RG12/753 Elham Hythe
Folio: 88
Page: 34
Tricia
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Julian Philip Swindell Hayes
Birth registered qrt ending Sep 1859
Westminster St Margaret
Volume: 1a
Page: 28_
Last digit could be a 1 but is difficult to read
Tricia
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Hi Tricia and thanks that is superb.
Does it appear Mrs Hayes - Edith, is a widow? I dont see it mentioned and usually it is, isnt it?
I'll have a look for her marriage on FreeBMD
I am amazed at the tohter Children! My cousin will be gobsmacked!
Like to try for her Mum - Nahneen Yvonne née Power
Colin
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I live a few hundred yards from Merton Hall Road if you need a photo!
meles
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I can't find a marriage for anyone POWER(S) to HAYES in 1914 - will try 1913.
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STOP PRESS
Claude J P Hayes
Marriage qrt ending September 1914
Kensington
1a
455
But Bride's surname is CHILDS
Tricia
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There is a Nahaman Childs b 1854 as Head of a family in 1901 but no daughter as yet, This appears to be a male name and is written as Main in 1891
Needs investigation ;)
Tricia
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Edith, is a widow?
Did you miss 1891 entry??
(See the Troops are out) :) :) :)
Tricia
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Nahneen H Y CHILD matches the marriage ref above
Is that Colin leading us up a gumtree?? ;D
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Nope, but the 83 year old cousin is in for a shock!!
Can I leave it with you, Arranroots - have to rush off to shops to collect very important Badminton Racket for son
Hope to see lots of results on return ;D ;D ;D
Tricia
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I am not sure where to look next, to be honest!
I would guess that Nahneen was born abroad, based on the foreign sounding name & the association with India in the HAYES family. and the fact that she doesn't seem to be on the censuses (no Nahneen anywhere any time).
Course Tricia has done all the easy bits... ;D ;D
Will keep trying though.
A ;)
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I started with Powers and Hayes! Now thanks to you all i have Hayes, Child, Waters, Swindell probably as well!
Any more you can find on the Child family would be superb. Where can we find where nahneen H Y Child was said to have been born. Her daughter says her d of b was 24 7 1892?
Colin
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Hiya Tricia,
Captain the Hon C J P Hayes..the title The Honourable is used as a courtesy title for the children of Barons and Viscounts and the younger sons of Earls. Have you been looking in Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, Burke's Peerage and Gentry or Who's Who for more information ???
All the Best, Chris
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Hi
Thanks for that. I havent but I did look in thepeerage.com and there is nothing there!
He was inded the second son but his father appears in 1891 (see below!) without any rank or title. is that normal?
Colin
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Course Tricia has done all the easy bits...
Ha, ha, ha - see you can't manage without me :P
Colin Y - do you think Power was her 2nd married name?
Back to the Front ;D
Tricia
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Hi
Thanks for that. I havent but I did look in thepeerage.com and there is nothing there!
He was inded the second son but his father appears in 1891 (see below!) without any rank or title. is that normal?
Colin
Hiya Colin,
I did a Find (on this Page).. no mention of the name Hayes.
Your "see below" has be baffled >:(
All the Best, Chris
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Hi Chris
The 1891 census is above as we look at it, but was below when Colin was typing! :D
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Any more you can find on the Child family would be superb. Where can we find where nahneen H Y Child was said to have been born. Her daughter says her d of b was 24 7 1892?
Any chance she died post 1969 in England/Wales when the date & place of birth should be on the death certificate as provided by the person who registered the death?
Casalguidi
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Might be worth chasing Julian on this link. I think they do Family Research
http://www.rcseng.ac.uk/library/services
Tricia
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its on the prvious page, viz:
1891 census
Eversleigh
Julian P S Hayes,Head age 32 Surgeon Army Medical Staff b. Kensington, London
Edith A V Hayes,wife age 24 b. Kensington, London
Philip V E Hayes ,son age 4 b. Canterbury, Kent
Claud J P Hayes,son age 3 b. India
Audry E L Hayes ,dau age 1 b. Hythe, Kent
Annie G Waters Mother in Law age 46 Widow Living on own means b. Manchester Lancs
Alice S Welman Sister Marr, age 29 b. India
Eileen V Welman Niece age 4 b. India
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Coiln Y - pay attention and answer some questions :-*
Can you ask your cousin if she was ever known as Nellie and can you also ask for that death date which could be very important.
I have checked The GRO Army Births 1881 -1965
GRO Consular Births 1849-1965
GRO Marine Births 1837-1965 and supplements
but nothing.
It is most important to find out if she was known as Nellie.(Think I'm barking up the wrong tree here, anyway)
Cheers, Tricia
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You might try posting on Armed Forces - obviously an Army family ..... ::)
Annie :)
Boy! Tricia's getting bossy - pay attention ........ :P :P :P :P
By the way - as he was a surgeon - you might want to try
Tina Craig
Deputy Head of Library and Information Services
Royal College of Surgeons of England
35-43, Lincoln's Inn Fields
London WC2A 3PE
Tel: 0207 869 6520
Fax: 0207 405 4438
TCraig at {@}rcseng.ac.uk
He had to be certified!!
Annie :)
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Hi Tricia
Did you get the racket OK?
Nahneen died in West Bromwich in 1951.
Her daughter is out at bridge at the moment so I cant get hold of her!
I will ask later.
She thought (and lets face it she has been majorly wrong in some of thee facts - that her mother was born in waterford!
Which Everlseigh is the 1891 census showing? Hampshire?
Colin
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Yes, got racket, ta.
I thought Eversleigh was the name of the house in Hythe, Kent ;)
1951 - died a bit too early for the information we want :'(
Of course she may well have been born in Ireland - that would account for the fact we can't find her
Tricia
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This could be him (reference to document at the National Archives, Kew, London) ........... depending upon how many Captain C J P HAYES' there were :)
WO 339/9784 ................. HAYES C J P, Capt (1915-1919)
WO 339 is the reference for Officers' Services WW1
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=6
Why not post a query about his WW1 service on the armed forces board - the guys on there love this type of thing ............. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html
Nahneen died in West Bromwich in 1951.
That's a pity :(
Casalguidi :)
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Might be worth dropping a line to these folks. Just in case she was born in Waterford
In Irish records all births marriages and deaths from 1864 - Present are available in the General Registrars office in Dublin.
The General Register Office is located at: -
Joyce House,
8 – 11 Lombard Street,
Dublin 2
Ireland
In which case she may be on 1901 Irish census and you will have to twist someone's arm on the Irish Board to help you
tricia
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Tricia
The 1891 shows her husband. The 1901 doesnt but shows her youngest child under a year old. there is no mention of her being a widow, in deed it says she is married.
I will check the military sites but he must have been living elsewhere or on service.
Any ideas?
I'd also like to trace the Hayes family ack a bit if possible. Can you help at all?
Your help has been ACE!
Thanks
Colin
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I assumed she is still married in 1901 and the husband is awaydoing Army Surgeon things. I'll have a look to see if I can find when he died.
I did look for the family but couldn't spot them further back than 1891 It would be nice to know if any of the others also checked because many heads are better than one. Expect they are in the Army somewhere or I missed them. If they don't surface you will need to send for Julian's birth cert(details given earlier)and that will show his parents and we can then have another look.
Tricia
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Tricia
Thanks again.
As you say many heads are better than one. I am constantly astounded how colleagues on Roots Chat do demonstrate multiple lateral thinking of a high order.
Your help and guidance is much appreciated
Colin
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Found this while searching
Julian Philip S Hayes 1885 Jul-Aug-Sep Paddington London
Edith Alexandra V Waters 1885 Jul-Aug-Sep Paddington
Marriage registered qrt ending Sep 1885
Paddington
County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 150
Tricia
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A possible for 1881 ................
2 Tavistock Road, Paddington
Patrick HAYES head mar 70 army captain b.Tipperary
Maria wife 53 b.Herts
Julian son unm 21 b.Brompton
Alice dau unm 19 .Bombay
Meara? dau unm 17 b.Dover (Kent)
Sarah MACPHERSON aunt wid 80 b.Wellington? (Salop)
+ 1 servant
RG11/12 folio 54 page 7
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1871
Albert St, Stevenage, Herts
Eliza A WILDING head wid 72 (independant crossed out) annuitant b.Welwyn Herts
Sarah C McPHERSON sister wid 69 (ditto for sister's occupation) b.Welwyn Herts
Sarah A TOLL? servant unm 16 general servant b.Stevenage Herts
Maria E HAYES niece mar 44 (ditto for aunt's occupation) b.Welwyn Herts
Alice S gt niece 9 b.Bdgaum?? East Indies
Meara gt niece 7 b.Dover Kent
RG10/1365 folio 84 page 40
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1871
2 Tavistock Crescent, Paddington
Patrick HAYES head mar 60 captain (83d? regiment of foot) b.Ireland
Philip son 11 b.Brompton Middlesex
+ 1 servant
Rg10/3 folio 21 page 36
Casalguidi
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They look good ;D
and do I see an Irish connection creeping it.
Good jigsaw puzzle, this one.
Tricia
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Wow!
I agree on both counts! The irish influence is increasingly apparent. I will have a look there for more too. Obvioulsy a very much Army family the Hayes!
Thanks to you both.
Today i am hoping to track down the Waters and Child connections. I'll try the Irish Fora!
Thanks again.
Colin