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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Daffodilly on Wednesday 29 March 06 19:21 BST (UK)

Title: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Wednesday 29 March 06 19:21 BST (UK)
I saw the thread below and wondered if anyone can help at all?
 
I have a James Alexander Bunch who was in the 42nd Highlanders in 1868 having joined the Black Watch in 1856.  In 1875 he joined the Seaforth Highlanders as Bandmaster and went through the Afghan campaign and to India, then was in the Queen's Brigade near the end of his career.  Does anyone have any other information about him?
 
I also have another James Alexander Bunch, father of the above, but no information on him apart from he was in the Crimea.
 
Then his father, the Bandmaster's Grandfather, was in the Royal Artillery too at Waterloo, but I have no first name for him.
 
Adam Bunch who was in the42nd Highlanders.
 
And Colin Bunch in the Seaforth Highlanders in 1901.
 
I imagine I need a trip to the National Archives, and the Chelsea Hospital may have some information, but is there anywhere else I should look?  All my information so far has come from register entries in Scotland's People.
 
I also found some overseas births on 1837Online and apart from 2, can match them with their parents, but it is the military details I would like to know about so I can try and work out who would have been where for the births I have left.
 
I think I have a lot of questions here really but any info would be really useful.  Any Bunches must be a part of my tree I think!
 
I have been reading your wonderful site for a while now and think it is amazing.  Thank you
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Wednesday 29 March 06 22:30 BST (UK)
hello daff.
james didnt fight in the crimea,he was in india.
james alexander bunch No 4282
was engaged in operation against lucknow in the indian mutiny from 2nd march till 16th march 1858 and was awarded the indian mutiny medal.

private adam bunch
6899
2nd battalion
royal highlanders
queens south africa medal with clasps for wittebergen,cape colony and transvaal
kings south africa medal with 1901 and 1902 clasps
his QSA medal was granted on 1-4-1901 and his KSA medal on 1-10-1902

poor old drummer francis bunch got missed off your list
army No 2065
died while on service in the gold coast in 1874
regards,mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: harribobs on Wednesday 29 March 06 22:58 BST (UK)


where's the smilie for being very impressed....... :o



mack..there's a query for you on the mancs site.. Pte Rice
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Wednesday 29 March 06 23:02 BST (UK)
Wow, that was quick!  Thank you ever so much.  I had given up on Francis as apart from his birth I have found nothing about him and guessed he must have died abroad somewhere.  All three you mention are brothers.  I suspect they have two more in the army somewhere.

I have an obituary for James as he ended up as the State Trumpeter for Scotland.  It mentions his father, also James Alexander Bunch, fighting as a sergeant in the Black Watch in the Crimea, and his Grandfather being a sergeant in the Royal Artillery serving under the Duke of Wellington in the Peninsular war and was severely wounded at Waterloo.

His son Colin was in the Seaforth Highlanders too, stationed at Fort George in 1901.  I know he was a Chelsea In-Pensioner too.  It is fascinating finding all this information about them.

Do you have a website you get all this information from?  I suspect some of Colin's brothers would have been in the army too, and I know at least one of his sons was in the Black Watch too.

Like Harribobs I am really impressed.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Wednesday 29 March 06 23:26 BST (UK)
its not from the web daff,its from the massive archive thats bending the floorboards in my spare bedroom,i checked the medal rolls for the black watch,from 1801 to 1911,they were the only ones mentioned,mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Wednesday 29 March 06 23:31 BST (UK)
Thanks ever so much for looking anyway, I'm really grateful and having their numbers will be very useful.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 30 March 06 01:30 BST (UK)


Hi Daffy and welcome to RootsChat!!

Yes ! - we're so lucky to have Mack and many others on the site - who spend hours and hours of time and effort AND money to give us such quality information so freely!! - they make it look so easy don't they ??

All I can say is ... thank goodness we're NOT their wives ....... !!!!

Enjoy your time here !

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 30 March 06 01:46 BST (UK)
my girlfriends glad shes not my wife  ;D ;D
mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 30 March 06 01:47 BST (UK)



You wish !! you Mancunian you !! ::) ::) ::) ;D
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 30 March 06 02:03 BST (UK)
another for you.
drum major adam bunch
he didnt go with the 42nd to the gold coast,he stayed at malta,army No 841
mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 30 March 06 03:08 BST (UK)
army chaplains births and baptisms,malta.1800-1900
adam mcintosh bunch 1844/46
james alexander bunch 1844/46
jemima frances bunch 1875 42nd regt
mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 30 March 06 03:50 BST (UK)


You might find this site interesting !!

http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/index.htm

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Thursday 30 March 06 15:43 BST (UK)
Mack and Annie, you're great!  Thanks for all your help.  The Malta site looks really useful, I will have to have a good look as I know James and Adam were born there and Adam obviously went back again later.

I have another question.  I looked on 1837Online Military Registers and have got two Bunchs I cannot place:

George L born in Bermuda 1851 (42nd) and Hugh A born Ardesier 1875 (78th). 

Neither of these appear anywhere else with their families that I can access (census, marriage or death, Scotland's People) but George has another brother born in Bermuda who appears in the 1861 census in Forfar, so I imagine George must have died.  Hugh was born to someone in the 78th but I am not sure who it was.

Is it possible that the place of birth is the place the father was stationed and not actually where they were born.  I have a birth entry which I have downloaded in Edinburgh for a Colin but in the Military Records he is shown as being born in Dover.

Neither are shown in the Military registers deaths, is there anywhere else I can look?  Is there a site like the Malta one for Bermuda?

I have typed this out a couple of times and I am still not sure it makes sense!  Hope someone can help me!  Thanks for reading it.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 30 March 06 16:21 BST (UK)

Hi Daffy!

Heres a site that maybe of interest!

http://bermuda-online.org/britarmy.htm

and heres something about yellow fever !

Quote
"Graves of men of the British Army's 42nd Regiment (Royal Highlanders or Black Watch) who died in Bermuda from yellow fever in 1847 when the regiment was stationed here from 1847-1851.

The men wore dark tartan to distinguish them from Guardsmen or Red Soldiers - hence the name Black Watch. Bermuda's Black Watch Well at the junction with the North Shore Road is named in tribute. It was dug in 1849. When the Governor ordered British soldiers to seek a fresh water supply for the poor of Pembroke Parish and their cattle during a prolonged drought, the Black Watch was the first to volunteer and dug so thoroughly the facility still exists today. One of the officers was Captain G. W. MacQuarie, who lived in St. George's at what was then Rendell House, later the Redan Hotel, now Clyde's Cafe. Several of this unit's soldiers are not in this graveyard but were buried at St. Peter's Church in St. George's. They include Ensign Maitland, Ensign Abercromby and beside them the grave of bandmaster Philip Goldbergh"


In Aberfeldy, Perthshire, Scotland, a monument - still there - was erected in 1887 to mark the enrolment in 1740 of the Black Watch as the 42nd Regiment of the line. The "Watch" as it was known originally was first raised in 1667 by various Whig clan chiefs "to be a constant guard for securing the peace in the Highlands and to watch upon the braes." 

Annie :) :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Thursday 30 March 06 16:52 BST (UK)
Annie, thanks.  Just got to take boys to football so have saved the site to my favourites and will have a look when I get back.  It could well be that George died of Yellow Fever which is why I can't find him.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 30 March 06 17:15 BST (UK)
daff,if the two you mention are infants,and the regts number is in brackets at the side of their names,it means the kids were born on the strenghth,they may be mentioned in the regts records,but i dont know where they are kept,mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Thursday 30 March 06 17:22 BST (UK)
Thanks Mack, yes they would have been infants then, thanks for replying.  I shall keep them in mind and maybe they will turn up.  At least you found Francis for me yesterday!  Thanks.  Daff.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 30 March 06 18:01 BST (UK)
could this lad be one of colins brothers.
private bunch No2534
4th dragoon guards
killed at abu klea 17-1-1885
awarded egyptian medal 1882-85 campaign

james alexander bunch
2nd battalion seaforth highlanders
bandmaster from 1875-1887
he handed over to bandmaster francis mcchesney in 1887
mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Thursday 30 March 06 18:25 BST (UK)
Yes Mack, he could well be another couldn't he. 

I have John born Bemuda 1849 and this George born Bermuda 1851 (assuming he is the same family) so it could be either of those.  It is amazing you finding all these pieces of the jigsaw for me.  They will be James's brothers as he was born in 1843. John is the one I have on the 1861 census in Forfar aged 12 so it is more likely to be him and George has disappeared.

I have checked James' marriage record today and the father (James) of all these boys was in the 42nd too but had died before 1866 so not sure where.

Thank you again!
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Garen on Wednesday 05 April 06 16:16 BST (UK)
I'm a bit late to this thread, only checking in every few days or weeks... but I know the name James Alexander Bunch of 78th Highlanders as he is on my Afghan War database. However, I got all my information on him from his obituary in The Scotsman (and the medal roll), which it sounds like that's what you already have. If not, I'll gladly send it on.

His service number in the 78th was 443 (not sure if that's been mentioned). I don't see his name on the Egypt medal roll for the 78th.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Saturday 08 April 06 21:19 BST (UK)
Garen, thank you ever so much for your reply, I have been away for a few days so have only just seen it.

Yes I too started with James's obituary, it was all I had to begin researching his 'tree'. I am really interested to see which paper it was in, is it available online or did you get it from a paper copy? The photocopy I have is a bit tatty and has lost the last part. It would be fascinating to see a better photo of him. As he was bandmaster would there be photos of him say in the Regimantal museum?

Both his father and one son were also called James Alexander and I know his father and at least one brother were in the 42nd, which he also was in the early part of his career. Would he have been in the 42nd when he was in Egypt?

Thank you for his service number which I didn't have but will be most useful as I try to find out more about his career in the army. I have become fascinated with it recently and want to read more about what life was like for him. Would his service number be the same in both the 42nd and 78th or would it have changed?

Thanks for your help. D.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Garen on Sunday 09 April 06 00:25 BST (UK)
Hello Daffodilly... I am attaching the obituary which I obtained when I had an account at The Scotsman archives.

http://archive.scotsman.com/

Do you have a photo of him? If you are willing, it would be great to add his portrait to his entry in the Afghan War database. I'm sure there's a good chance he'd appear on a photo somewhere at the regimental museum (the Seaforth is at Fort George near Inverness, and the 42nd Black Watch is in Perth) - not mention his wee post of State Trumpeter! For Egypt he would have been in the 2nd Battalion Seaforth Rgt. (though I don't think the full battalion were present) as it was in 1882, but he is not on the roll.

Also, it is possible he carried his service number from the 42nd to the 78th, but is also quite likely he received a new number when he transferred, so no definitive answer there, I'm afraid.

Very best -
Garen.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 09 April 06 00:31 BST (UK)



Oh wow Garen!

Gave me goosebumps !! - Daffy is going to be thrilled !! - mentions of his family too - THAT is so cool!!

Annie  :) :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Sunday 09 April 06 08:54 BST (UK)
Wow, Garen thank you!! :)

I have a different obituary but with some content and wording the same, but yours has a lot more information in it about the battles he was involved in in India.  And the information about his brothers, it's brilliant!   

I have no photos of him except the one in the photocopy of the obit that I have which is a very poor photocopy done years ago when they weren't nearly as good as now.  So I wonder which newspaper I have or whether it was a later edition of the Scotsman.  It was published on the same day as yours.  I will get my daughter to show me how to insert a scan of my copy if it is readable enough.  The photo is very poor but you can make out a double row of medals.  It is by Drummond Shiels, Edinburgh.

On your obit it says in his capacity as State Trumpeter he attended all the great functions in Scotland for 35 years so there must be an odd photo of him somewhere, but I don't know where to look.

I have two of the brothers (Francis and Adam) who served in the same regiment but have not yet found the third.  Before I started this (about a month ago) I knew nothing about the Seaforth Highlanders, now I can't get enough!  The whole thing is so fascinating!

Thanks ever so much for your help.  Daff
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Garen on Sunday 09 April 06 09:44 BST (UK)
That's great - I just presumed you had The Scotsman obituary... I'd have posted it earlier otherwise. I'm really glad it gave some extra detail too - what a career he had. I do have some obituaries of other Afghan war veterans in multiple newspapers and they quite often have much the same wording, so I guess they use the same source, perhaps from family or a friend. Sometimes, if it's an officer, you can tell the info's just culled from the Army List.

If you are able to post the photo, or email it, that would be wonderful and a great addition to the database, even if the quality is poor.

The 78th Highlanders (2nd Battalion Seaforth after 1881) didn't have a huge role to play in the Second Afghan War. They moved up to Quetta in August 1880 under orders from General Phayre (a very arduous march), and over 100 men were invalided sick while there. By this time the last war of the campaign had been fought by General Roberts at Kandahar, and in November the 78th moved up the line to Kandahar themselves for garrison duty, which they performed until April 1881 when the British evacuated for good.

P.S - a bit early for your chap, but this amusing piece is from 'The Confessions of Harry Lorrequer' by Charles James Lever (1806-1872)

Quote
"The old state trumpeter at the castle, another object of my youthful veneration, poor 'old God save the King' as we used to call him, walked the streets as of old; his cheeks indeed, a little more lanky and tendinous; but then there had been many viceregal changes, and the 'one sole melody his heart delighted in' had been more frequently called in requisition, as he marched in solemn state with the other antique gentlemen in tabards."

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Confessions-of-Harry-Lorrequer-Complete3.html
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: brigcs on Monday 10 April 06 14:26 BST (UK)
 ;)

Dear Daff,

You are having loads of luck! Well done.

Brigcs :D
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: M.T.H on Monday 10 April 06 16:45 BST (UK)
What a great thread!!!

And what an interesting life your ancestor had Daff!

Just the tonic I need as I'm recovering from a very nasty bout of flu... :P

I've found a couple of snippets in the Times.

Friday April 20th 1888

The Queen has been pleased, by Warrant under Her Majesty's Royal Sign Manual, to appoint Mr. James.A.Bunch to be one of Her Majesty's Trumpeters in Scotland, in the room of Mr.Richard John Adams, desceased.

Friday May 9th 1924

Mr JAMES ALEXANDER BUNCH, of Polwarth-gardens, Edinburgh,an Indian Mutiny veteran,senior State Trumpeter for Scotland for over 30 years,and for 25 years Bandmaster of the Queen's Edinburgh Rifles ,who died on December 21st ,aged 79, has left personal estate in Great Britain valued for probate at 2,476.



Mick ;)




Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Monday 10 April 06 17:02 BST (UK)
Wow, thank you, I hadn't thought about The Times, that's brilliant.  It is lovely to have someone that there is information about.  All our other trees are very nondiscript.

The trouble is there are so many places to look for information about this one, I don't know where to start and I end up spending too much time at my PC, but it is so fascinating reading up about battles he could have been in.  And of course his brothers and father too.  I know one of his sons was in the army too.

The information about the will is interesting, I wonder if I can get to read it, it may shed more light on his children, he had quite a few, I am up to 13 at the moment!  It might at least confirm they are all his.

I notice you have a Trumpeter for your avatar, are you one too?

Many thanks for your help.

Daff.
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: M.T.H on Monday 10 April 06 17:25 BST (UK)
I notice you have a Trumpeter for your avatar, are you one too?

 ;D
No, I'm not a Trumpeter but I am ex-military!

There must be loads of information about James's time as State Trumpeter,it'll be interesting to see what else can be found.

I did find this curious photo of a Scottish State Trumpeter's uniform from the Victorian era.

http://www.no10lodge.fsnet.co.uk/morelodgephotos.htm

Mick ;)



Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Monday 10 April 06 17:40 BST (UK)
As you say, curious!  It is probably the best photo of the uniform that I shall get to see and is interesting for that.

After reading the obit from The Scotsman I googled 'Queen's Edinburgh Rifles' I got a mixture of information about Territorial Army and a Masonic Lodge of the same name, perhaps he belonged to both and donated his uniform, it's the same era.

Thanks.
Daff
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: manmack on Thursday 20 April 06 15:12 BST (UK)
daff,youve got to post this on the great war forum,he was involved in ww1 but many of us have interests in other wars,they will love this on the forum,you never know what they will come up with,thats a brilliant piece from the scotsman,and it confirms that the pte bunch who died was his brother,well done everyone,mack
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Thursday 20 April 06 15:26 BST (UK)
Thanks Mack. I will do that.  I looked at it the other day but it was late at night and I was too tired to register, will sort it out in the next couple of days.  Thanks for all your help!
Daff
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: vandab on Saturday 22 April 06 22:19 BST (UK)
Hi Daff,
 Well done on the info you have had, isn't it great to uncover things like this. I had a lot of help from Gaven and found my G Grandfather also in the Seaforths and received his papers today.
Good bunch of people on here pats on the back to you all,
 Vanda
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: AlexanderB on Saturday 19 July 14 08:54 BST (UK)
Hi Daff,
Just been reading all this info about my great great grandad - I'm actually on the Colin side who himself had 10 children. I've been told he wrote his own obituary by the way but I can't verify that. Which side of the family are you from?
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Tuesday 22 July 14 06:42 BST (UK)
Hi AlexanderB

I will send you a private message, I too know James wrote his own obituary.  I have a fair bit of information on him I can share with you.  :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: AlexanderB on Tuesday 22 July 14 12:02 BST (UK)
Hi,
I think I know who you might be :)
I can't seem to write personal messages - it says I can't.
Try my linkedin :
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alexander-bunch/2/49/5b3
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Tuesday 22 July 14 12:13 BST (UK)
I think you have to have made 5 posts before you can PM people, I have sent you another message  :)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 26 July 14 22:57 BST (UK)
The sender and the recipient need to have made three posts each to be able to use the PM system

Milly (Armed Forces Moderator)
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Carolyn25 on Thursday 22 January 15 21:02 GMT (UK)
My great Grandfather is James Alexander Bunch.   I am interested in learning more.  The family have his medals.  from a Bunch!
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Daffodilly on Wednesday 04 October 17 15:17 BST (UK)
Hello Carolyn25

I am sorry I hadn't seen your message, welcome to Rootschat, it is great to meet another of James's offspring  :)  Which of his offspring are you descended from?  It is a fascinating family.....

Daff
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Tony Bunch on Friday 14 September 18 16:02 BST (UK)
Just happened to come across this info re James Alexander Bunch.  He was my great grandfather.   I have all his medals and even his bandmaster's baton!  I also have a photo in case you are still seeking one.
Regards
Tony Bunch
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: Garen on Friday 14 September 18 16:47 BST (UK)
Hello Tony

Many thanks for your message. Here is Bandmaster Bunch's Afghan War database record (http://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/database/permalink.php?pid=155) - if you'd like to add any further info, or add his portrait to the entry, it would be most welcome.

All best - Garen
Title: Re: Another Seaforth Highlanders Query?
Post by: JamesBunch on Thursday 01 October 20 13:56 BST (UK)
This is a fascinating read, James Alexander Bunch was my Great Grandfather. It is so amazing to read all about his wonderful life & achievements. Would be great to know more of the story.