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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: zep on Sunday 02 April 06 17:45 BST (UK)
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i am interested in PARISS/PARIS family originally of uphall w.lothian /anstruther wester then greenwich/woolwich.there is a middle name of SHAIRP that runs through many generations ...so far the earliest is in mid 1700's...however i can't find the marriage connection or indeed why it continued for so long on the male line...any ideas?
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Hi -
This is just a thought, but I have been researching the Shairps of Uphall, Houstoun, etc. for many years now and have come across several members of that family that are acknowledged as family members but for which I am unable to find any record of birth. I believe they may be illegitimate births. I was researching illegitimate births in general and found a reference that apparently sometimes an unacknowledged illegitimate child would be named with the father's surname as their second name so that everyone would know who the father was. Is it possible that perhaps that is where the Shairp name comes from in your ancestors? I did find some Paris names on the Shairp estate as tenants or employees so there was proximity and opportunity. Your letter was quite old ( I remember reading it when you posted it) so if you've found out anything else in the meantime, I'd love to hear about it.
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Hello arcona..yes I wondered if this may be the case and also if the fact that a Shairp was advocate to the queen of Scots..could my Paris name have arrived in Scotland through a supporter or entourage? I have records of Paris family burials in Uphall...but would love to learn more of the possibilities.my earliest Paris is James married Isobel Hardie..children born in uphall from 1718(10 in all!) My first with the shairp middle name Thomas born 1773 from him there is one son every generation for 100 years...also always a john,thomas or walter. Would love to clear up the mystery.look forward to hearing from you.
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I really tend to lean towards the illegitimate angle, rather than the historical french connection. The names Thomas, John and Walter are strong Shairp names. Thomas and John were usually the inheritors of the Houston estate through the generations and there were lots of Walters too. I have found a few examples of illegitimate Shairps who were recognized as sons so perhaps they were a randy bunch!!
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Can you share some examples? I'm struggling to see why the shairp middle name would continue through a family for 100 years..if the original child was illegitimate..paris is not a Scottish name...I can't find a clan..so where did they come from if not the obvious..France...? Would you mind sharing any paris family info you have gleaned?would be interesting to know what was happening in the shairp line around 1773 when thomas shairp paris was born...the other possibility is that thomas was not the first shairp paris...hoping you can shed a guiding light ...
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It is not unusual for children to be called after their father's employer, a neighbour, the minister, the parish schoolmaster or members of an estate owner's family.
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Hi again. A lot of what I recall about the Paris family were things I noted many years ago when doing my first Shairp research, but I haven't been that active lately. I think I noted them in old estate censuses and rentals. I just perused about 100 pages of summaries from the Shairp family papers from the The National Archives of Scotland which I found on-line and found the following items about the Paris family which might be helpful. Please note the old spelling of Paris is Pares. I have typed these summaries exactly as in the original. I think missive is letter and tack is a rental agreement.
GD30 item 375: Missive by James Pares to Thomas Shairp of Houstoun to remove from the lands of Nettlehill at Martinmas next. 20/3/1764
GD30 item 669: Tack by Thomas Shairp [Sharp] of Houstoun to John Pares [Paris] tenant at Burslethal [Bracelet Hall] of the lands of Bruslethail in Houstoun in the parish of Uphall and sheriffdom of Linlithgow. 17/10/1750
GD30 item 671:Tack by Thomas Shairp [Sharp]of Houstoun to James Paris, wright in Houstoun, of the lands of White Croft and the lands on the west sdie of Houstoun ground, at present prossessed by the said James Paris and Isobel Hardy [Harie], his mother, for 17 years. 1/3/1753
GD30 item 678: Tack by Thomas Shairp [Sharp] of Houstoun to John Fleming, wright, formerly in Burnhouse, now in Houstoun, of lands and houses in the west end of Houstoun latley possessed by Thomas Craw and lands on the west end of Houstoun lately possessed by James Paris, wright and teinds thereof, for 19 years. 17/11/1761
I'll send you anything else as I come across it, and I'll send you a summary of what was going on in the Shairp's lives too. That time period is when I suspect another Shairp or two may have been illegitimate births as well. I'm just now getting back into my research so I'll keep my eyes open for more Pares/Paris connections.
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Arcona! Amazing info! Thank you! These are my Paris line! I'm going to look at those dates..was there any suggestion of their livelihoods ? I know from arrival in London but no idea of their lives in Scotland.thank you so much ...can't wait to hear more....
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I'm glad it helped you. The information I sent you refers to Paris as a "wright". The wikipedia definition of that is :
Wright is an occupational surname originating in England.[1] The term 'Wright' comes from the circa 700 AD Old English word 'wryhta' or 'wyrhta', meaning worker or shaper of wood. Later it became any occupational worker[2][3] (for example, a shipwright is a person who builds ships), and is used as a British family name. Wright is also an anglicized version of the Scots Gaelic clan name "MacIntyre" or "Mac an t-Saoir", meaning "Son of the Wright", or "Son of the Carpenter". The word Carpentier, now Carpenter was introduced into England in 1066 and slowly replaced the traditional name and meaning of wright
That suggests to me that the Parises were a working class family and at that time, marriage to the Shairps would have been unheard of as they were very wealthy and were gentry. In those times, no one ever married outside their class. I still think there is a legitimacy issue here and I'd like to find it too because I can't find records of a birth either at Scotland's People site or the Shairp papers for Alexander Shairp, b. 1686 (who I descend from) who is recorded as the son of Thomas Shairp. Official records of inheritance don't list a son's name but written family history from that time as well as Burke's peerage all say he was Thomas's son. Additionally, Alexander is supposed to have had a son William and I can't find a record for him either, although references keep appearing about him being Alexander's son. Wouldn't you like to be able to time travel to sort out these kinds of things?
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...time travel...smiles..shame we don't descend from h.g wells for this :) actually I was so inspired I randomly searched Pares last night and found a couple of births in uphall that I hadn't seen before..jhone pareis christened 17 Feb 1635 father thomas and girsall or maybe grissall pareis chr.11 April 1635 father Archibald. I wondered if grissall was a derivation of Giselle. I don't see an immediate connection to my line but I dare say possible. My earliest paris is James who married Isobel Hardie ( so your info actually gave me their residence ) .It is their son James that I descend from (born 1724 uphall ) who married Isobell Fleming .It is their youngest son Thomas (born 1773) that is my first discovered incident of Shairp middle name.However I descend from his brother John (born 1754) and this is the odd thing the shairp middle name continues in Johns child and continues through over 100 years...although it was his brother thomas who had the name....hence the mystery.
I would love to find the father of my James Paris who married Isobel Hardie ( born18 may 1694 tilli county clackmanan) but I had more luck finding her parents and grandparents which included a Dewar and a Campbell .Funnily enough by 1898 I have an Alexander Shairp Paris born in woolwich. It seems my great grandfather was the one who finally stopped using the name although it may have continued with one of his brothers line. If by any chance you have seen or can set me in the right direction to go back further with my Paris' that would be wonderful.It seems from those letters that they rented a fair amount of land..Bracelet Hall sounded interesting...have always been drawn to the Tudor/stuart period ...hoping my dates and info may help unravel this mystery.would love to hear more of your Alexander too...
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At one time "Grissel/Girsel" and all its variant spellings was a fairly common name in Scotland. It has no connection whatsoever with the name "Grace", but by the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries you start to see many girls baptised "Grissel" turning into "Grace" in records made later in their lives. You find the same with "Isobel/Isabel". As the 19th century goes on, most "Isabels" turn into "Isabellas".
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We're going to solve this mystery yet!!! I'm curious as to who Isabel Hardie's mother is. Do you have her name and birth date and/or birthplace? Also, do you have any siblings for her. I'm wondering if someone in that family gave birth to a Shairp outside of marriage. I'm chasing the female members because I have a few Shairps without a known mother. My ancestor, Alexander Shairp (b. 1686), is stated several places to be Thomas Shairp's son (in one document) and second son in another. Yet in the Sasine's and birth records, Thomas only has two daughters and no sons. Also, my Alexander has a son William (no birth date) but it does not appear to be by his wife, Marion Bell. Curiouser and curiouser. I look forward to your reply.
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Oh fab ! At last I can send something to you! :)
Isobel Hardie mother Margaret Dewar marr.John Hardie...no bdate for Margaret but John Hardie born 1665 alloa. His parents were Robert Hardie and Marion Campbell.
Isobel's siblings James b. 1688 and Margaret b.1692 all born Tilli country Clackmannan.
Isobel and James Paris children were all born in uphall but as I cannot find James parents or the marriage I don't know at what point Isobel left clackmannon for uphall ....their children were all born between 1718 and 1736.
Thomas Shairp Paris was the child of James Paris (james and isobel hardies child) and Isobell Fleming born 12 may 1734 anstruther wester.
I noticed there was a Fleming mentioned in those estate records wondered if a connection....