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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: KatPez on Tuesday 11 April 06 11:52 BST (UK)
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After researching my grandfather's side of the family (with lots of help) I need to now look at my grandmother's. I've got most of the information for her father but all I have for her mother is a name. Does anyone know how i can find out where she was born. I know roughly when but no idea where apart from that it was possibly the North-West.
I know her maiden name and I've ordered their marriage certificate though looknig on my grandparents marriage certificate it won't have a birth place on anyway.
I'm really stuck with this one. Can anyone help
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Hi ,
Can you find them on any census as birthplace is listed on details?
Nanny Jan
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Hi Treenie_01
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
Can anyone help - that is what we are here for!
Why not post what you know about the family and we will see what we can find out. Include names, dates, occupations and if you have found them on any census give us that too. Usually the census is a good place to start, but it depends whether you have got back as far as 1901 yet?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Ok here goes
I know that my great grandmother was Mary Jane Kelly
I know that she got married to Thomas Brooks Miller
I think this was around dec 1906 in Fylde, Lancashire but I'm waiting for the marriage certificate to confirm this.
That is all I know that I'm certain of.
I've been told by my dad's cousin (though we're not sure) that they were possibly connected to teh tin mining communities in cumbria, cornwall and the isle of man but obviously this is a bit of a long shot.
My great grandfather (Thomas) was from Lytham St Annes so I assume that's where he was married (can't find a connection for her) as it comes up in Fylde.
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Given the time lapse of 5 years between the marriage you have found and the 1901 census, it is probably wise to wait for the cert to arrive.
There is a likely looking Thomas B MILLER in Lytham in 1901, father William is a carpenter and there is a servant with the surname BROOKS in the household. The cert will tell you his father's name and occupation, so we can follow this up if it matches.
Mary Jane will also be much easier to trace once you know her father's name. She does not appear to be in the Lytham area in 1901.
Do you know any other details, such as their siblings names?
A ;)
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No. I may have the spelling wrong and it may be Kelley.
That's the only thing I know. I've got thomas' family. they were connected to Lytham Lifeboat and were easy to trace.
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There is a Catherine KELLEY living in Henry St, Lytham in 1901 - just up the road from your MILLERs. She is unmarried, but possibly Mary came to visit?
How soon do you expect the cert?
A ;)
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next week sometime.
that might be a good lead actually as the millers also lived in Henry Street. I remember that from looking into the lifeboat thing.
It could be possible that she was related and that's how they met.
Thank you
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When you get the cert, perhaps you could post the details if you still need assistance and we will rally the troops!
;)
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I will do that. thanks for your help
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Just a quick update on Mary Jane.
Apparently (according to my dad's cousin) she was from whitehaven. Not sure whether this means she was born there or lived there. However, I'm still struggling to find her. Hopefully I will find some more out from the wedding certificate when that arrives.
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
There is a Mary J Kelly born 1891 in Barrow but living in Whitehaven in 1901 - her mother is a Christiana, father not present. Tracing them back father is John a bootmaker born Isle of Man.
Let us know when you get that certificate - she looks good although she would have only been 16 when she married. Still a possibility though.
Cheers Jan ;)
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
There is a Mary J Kelly born 1891 in Barrow but living in Whitehaven in 1901 - her mother is a Christiana, father not present. Tracing them back father is John a bootmaker born Isle of Man.
Let us know when you get that certificate - she looks good although she would have only been 16 when she married. Still a possibility though.
Cheers Jan ;)
On the wedding certificate (well according to the bmd search anyway) her name is spelt Kelley though I guess I'll have to wait see the signatures onthe certificate to prove this.
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When ordering marriage certiificates is it 15 working days?? if so i should receive this one by the end of the week (hopefully). I feel like I've got a big gap. Other branches of my tree now go back to 1781 and this one is still stuck or around 1876 and is only on my great grand parent.
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Not sure how long they're taking at the moment - do let us know what you find out when it arrives.
Re spelling Kelly/Kelley it could be either way - it more a case of matching other info rather than worrying about spelling. My dad is always very particular about how Allsopp is spelt 2l's 2p's - yet his father is Allsop on his birth certicate.
Jan ;)
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i know what you mean. I'm very fussy about the spelling of my first name. It's spelt Kathrina but most people forget the 'H' because it's not pronounced.
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I've finally received the marriage certificate.
The information I have is that they were married on November 10th 1906.
Thomas Brooks Miller age 31 - bachelor - painter - lived 8 Henry Street Lytham - Father William Miller
Mary Jane Kelley - age 28 - spinster - lived Elms Avenue - Father Richard Kelley (deceased)
Not sure where to go next. I'm not sure where elms avenue is or when richard kelley died
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Gosh, that was a long wait!
What are the father's occupations and the witnesses names on the certificate?
Every last bit of information helps!
A ;)
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William Miller was a joiner
Richard Kelley was a miner.
The witnesses are Nicholas Salthouse and Grace White.
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It looks as though the William MILLER carpenter we found earlier is a good bet then!
Will find the details for you and follow up on the witnesses - nice unusual name for Nicholas!
Have to pop out, but will do it later if no-one has found them by then.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Have found a good match in 1891 8)
Posting in a second
Tanja :)
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I'm not looking for the Millers. I've found them. It's the Kelley's I'm trying to trace.
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Well, since I just transcribed them will post anyway!
RG13/3966/37/28
William MILLER H M 55 - joiner carp - Lanc Lythan
Margaret W M 51 - do Formby
Thomas B son U 25 - house painter - do Lythan
John A son U 19 - bricklayer apprentice - do
Ralph son U 17 - do - do
Henry son 16 - plumber apprentice - do
Elizath A dau 13 - do
Jane BROOKS serv U 15 - gen serv dom - do Formby
Address: 8 Henry St, Lytham, Lancashire
Sometimes it helps to folow both sides of the family as they are often neighbours - after all they had to meet somewhere.
If you had this information, you could have posted it yourself, to save us looking.
A ;)
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Found him!!!!!
We went on a few odd tracks that we got from my dad's cousin and we've found Richard Kelly in Cumberland, born in the Isle of Man which was what my dad's cousin had found.
thanks everyone.
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Right - I was talking about the Kellys too 8)
Have already copied it so here we go:
1891
RG12/4312 20 36
Arlecdon Frizington, Cumberland
3 Dyke Moor
Alexander L White, head, 58, Stone Mason, b. Scotland
Mary J K, wife, 40, b. Cornwall Redruth
Richard Kelly, stepson, 15, Stone Mason apprentice, b. Scotland
Mary J Kelly, stepdau, 13, scholar, b. Cumberland Arlecdon
George Kelly, stepson, 11, scholar, b. do.
Thomas M Kelly, stepson, 10, scholar, b. do.
Lily White, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
Alexander White, son, 4, scholar, b. do.
Grace White, dau, 1, b. do.
Going back to 1881:
RG11/5183 100 19
Arlecdon Frizington, Cumberland
Griffin Row
Richard Kelly, head, 30, Iron miner, b. K? Lonan? Isle of Man
Mary Jane, wife, 29, b. Redruth Cornwall
Richard, son, 5, scholar, b. Cam? Baslam? Scotland
Mary Jane, dau, 3, b. Frizington Cumberland
George, son, 1, b. do.
Thomas M, son, 1mo, b. do.
Cumberland, Isle of Man, Cornwall, Grace White ... everything's there! 8)
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Mum and Step Dad in 1901
1901 Arlecdon, Cumberland
RG13/4889 folio 149 page 55
4 Dyke Nook
Alex. White, head, m, 70. stone mason, Scotland
Mary White, wife, m, 50, Redruth Cornwall
Thos Kelly, son in law, s, 20, iron ore miner, Arlecdon Cumberland
Alex White, son, 16, labourer, Arlecdon Cumberland
Grace White, daur, 13, Arlecdon Cumberland
Janet White, daur, 11, Arlecdon Cumberland
Donald White, 8, Arlecdon Cumberland
Eliz. White, 6, Arlecdon Cumberland
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And Mary herself in 1901 ...
1901 Witton, Lancashire
RG13/3928 folio 97 page 1
"Cambay Villas"
Thomas Turner Mercer, head, widr, 58, laundry engineer & ironfounder, Blackburn Lancs
Robert Mercer, son, 27, [something] & spinner, Blackburn Lancs
Alexander Mercer, son, 25, physician & surgeon, Blackburn Lancs
Lois Southworth Mercer, daur, 23, Blackburn Lancs
Mary Kelly, serv[ant], 23, general serv (domestic), Frizington Cumberland
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Fantastic. That's much more than i found. I'd got the 1881 and the 1891 bit.
Thank you very much.
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Going back further .......
1871 Census of Lonan, Isle of Man
RG10/5774 folio 30 page 15
"Minorca Hill"
KELLY
William, head, mar, 58, miner lead, Lonan Isle of Man
Ann, wife, 43, Jurby(?) Isle of Man
William, son, un, 27, miner lead, Braddon Isle of Man
Richard, son, 20, miner lead, Lonan Isle of Man
James A., son, 16, labour[er], Lonan Isle of Man
Alfred A., son, 9, scholar, Lonan Isle of Man
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And further ...
1861 - Kirk Lonan, Isle of Man
RG9/4423 folio 7 page 7
KELLY
William, head, mar, 48, miner, Lonan Isle of Man
Elzabeth, wife, mar, 44, Kendal Westmorland <-----first wife??
John, son, un, 23, miner, Coniston, Lancashire
George W., son, un, 20, miner, Slaughold Isle of Man
William, son, un, 17, washer at mines, Braddon Isle of Man
Elizabeth, daur, 13, scholar, Lonan Isle of Man
Richard, son, 10, scholar, Lonan Isle of Man
James H., son, 6, scholar, Lonan Isle of Man
1851 - Lonan Isle of Man
HO107/2524 folio 431 page 20
KELLY
William, head, mar, 38, leadore miner, Lonan Isle of Man
Elizabeth, wife, mar, 34, England
John, son, 13, mine washer, Conistione [sic] England
George Wm., son, 10, scholar, Slaughold Isle of Man
William, son, 7, scholar, Braddon
Elizabeth, daur, 3, Lonan
Richard, 1 week, Lonan :D
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So if he was one week old in 1851 I assume the census is done in march the same as it is now. Does anyone know what date?
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The 1851 Census was conducted on 30 March 1851.
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So it can be assumed that Richard was born around the 23rd March 1851. Is that correct.
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That would be reasonable assumption, yes. Our ancestors had a tendency to misstate their ages in Census returns, but it's hard to imagine this entry being wrong. :)
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Well, since I just transcribed them will post anyway!
RG13/3966/37/28
William MILLER H M 55 - joiner carp - Lanc Lythan
Margaret W M 51 - do Formby
Thomas B son U 25 - house painter - do Lythan
John A son U 19 - bricklayer apprentice - do
Ralph son U 17 - do - do
Henry son 16 - plumber apprentice - do
Elizath A dau 13 - do
Jane BROOKS serv U 15 - gen serv dom - do Formby
Address: 8 Henry St, Lytham, Lancashire
Sometimes it helps to folow both sides of the family as they are often neighbours - after all they had to meet somewhere.
If you had this information, you could have posted it yourself, to save us looking.
A ;)
I did have this information, however I have a query on it.
After a bit more delving I've found that Margaret's (in the list) maiden name is brooks. Is it possible that Jane (the servent) is her sister. I've found a margaret brooks from formby around the same time and her sister is Jane.
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Just going by the ages, it might seem more likely that the servant is Margarets' niece.
Do you know Margaret's parents' names? Or anything about her background?
It would be a good idea to locate Jane is 1891 if you haven't already?
When you say you have found a Margaret with sister Jane - when was this? I mean which census or other record?
Let me know what you know & I can have a look if it helps
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Just going by the ages, it might seem more likely that the servant is Margarets' niece.
Do you know Margaret's parents' names? Or anything about her background?
It would be a good idea to locate Jane is 1891 if you haven't already?
When you say you have found a Margaret with sister Jane - when was this? I mean which census or other record?
Let me know what you know & I can have a look if it helps
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
Jane is on 1861.
You're probably right. it could be her neice.
Margaret's parents names are Thomas Brooks bn 1820 and Margaret (maiden name unknown) bn 1821
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This looks like Jane the servant in 1891
Did Margaret have a brother Ralph? Seems to be a family name.
Rg12/3031/39/2
Ralph BROOKS H M 35 - cotton porter - Formby
Elizabeth W M 36 - Maghill
Thos son 9 - ditto
Jane dau 6 - Formby
Margaret dau 4 - ditto
Peter son M [sic] 2 - not stated, Lancs
Jane HURST wife's mother widow 81 - Walton
Address: Andrews Lane, Formby (Walton on the Hills crossed through), lancs
A ;)
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Yes she did. bn 1858.
Cool. Thanks for that.
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Unbelievably there are a little cluster of Ralph BROOKS all born about the same time in Formby, so I wouldn't take that as gospel, but it looks likely.
A ;)