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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: gill on Saturday 22 April 06 22:06 BST (UK)
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On behalf of a friend, I am trying to find out about the above.
My friend came across a scarf of some sort amongst an ancestors belongings many years ago.
The scarf had each of the 12 Presidents of Ireland printed on it, and wondered whether it was symbolic of something.
The family were RC, but my friend wondered if it had some sort of Masonic meaning to it, as he cant find out anything about it.
Hope someone can help.
gill
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Hiya gill,
There's a slight problem ... Ireland has not had twelve Presidents.
Presidents
1938 - 1945 Douglas Hyde
1945 - 1959 Sean Thomas O'Kelly
1959 - 1973 Eámon de Valera
1973 - 1974 Erskin Childers
1974 - 1976 Cearbhall O'Dalaigh
1976 - 1990 Patrick Hillery
1990 - 1997 Mary Robinson
1997 - Mary McAleese
Source: Wikipedia. The Free Encyclopedia
Between 1922 and 1982 there were twelve Prime Ministers I wonder if the scarf might have been a souvenir produced about 1982 to celebrate Ireland's Diamond Anniversary of self government.
1922-32 William T. Cosgrave Fine Gael
1932-48 Eamon de Valera Fianna Fáil
1948-51 John A. Costello Fine Gael
1951-54 Eamon de Valera Fianna Fáil
1954-57 John A. Costello Fine Gael
1957-59 Eamon de Valera Fianna Fáil
1959-66 Sean Lemass Fianna Fáil
1966-73 Jack Lynch Fianna Fáil
1973-77 Liam Cosgrave Fine Gael
1977-79 Jack Lynch Fianna Fáil
1979-81 Charles Haughey Fianna Fáil
1981-82 Garret Fitzgerald.
Source: about: European History (http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/readyref/blirelandstatesmen.htm)
Chris
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Are there any names printed on the scarf that would help identify them?
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Are there any names printed on the scarf that would help identify them?
That's a good question aghadowey.
I wondered whether to ask that question but I decided not to ask that one as the header does say 12 Presidents of Ireland ... I thought of 12 Presidents of either the GAA or IRFU but then thought "No it can't be GAA or IRFU as the scarf would have included the initials of those organisations." The part of gill's question that made me think my answer could be wrong was the phrase "amongst an ancestors belongings many years ago." 1982 would hardly be many years ago.
gill, what do you mean by "a scarf of some sort?" What colour was the scarf? That might assist as well.
Chris
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Wouldn't be 12 Presidents of the U.S. with Irish roots or something? Names would certainly help clear this one up.
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Wouldn't be 12 Presidents of the U.S. with Irish roots or something? Names would certainly help clear this one up.
That looked a good idea aghadowey but an article on the Post Gazette website on St Patrick's Day 2000 by Ann McFeatters mentions that ten U.S. presidents had Irish ancestors. (http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20000317irish9.asp) We'll have to think again. There could be problems if there were pictures but no names on the scarf. I don't suppose gill and her friend mistook the Twelve Disciples for Irish Presidents.
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More than 10...
George Washington
James Madison
Andrew Jackson
James Polk
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses S. Grant
Chester Arthur
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
and more...
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There were several Presidents with Ulster Scots connections but surprisingly the first President with Irish American connections was John F. Kennedy (1961–63). He was also the first Roman Catholic President.
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George Washington had roots in Co. Cork & Woodrow Wilson in Co. Tipperary.
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Thanks Christopher and Aghadowey for your interest.
The scarf was emerald green in colour and was square shaped. It had pictures of 12 presidents (of Ireland?) with their names. It belonged to my friends great grandfather who died in 1959 in Londonderry. My friends grandfather brought it to Scotland after his fathers death, where it remained locked in a suitcase for 30 years until his death.
My friends mother discovered the scarf and set about using it as a bandana while teaching her aerobic classes for the next 10 years. After years of use as a bandana you can imagine the condition of it, and it was then thrown out.
It is only in recent years they have wondered what the scarf was, and why was it kept hidden in a suitcase. They wish they still had it now, as it was obviously of some importance to the grandfather / great grandfather.
What is the GAA or IRFU Chritopher?
Regards Gill
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Hiya Gill,
What a pity the scarf was thrown out. I wonder if an ancestor of another Rootschatter had such a scarf.
The GAA is The Gaelic Athletic Association (http://www.gaa.ie/page/the_club.html) (Cumann Lúthchleas Gael). The IRFU is the Irish Rugby Football Union. (http://www.irishrugby.ie/24_19.php)
Christopher
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Hi Christopher,
thanks again for your interest,
I dont think it was a commemorative scarf of Rugby or Athletics, as there was no one athletic in any form in the family. However, it was obviously a commemorative scarf of something with 12 men on it. My friend wondered if it represented something masonic, or worse that it could be linked to IRA or something like that (although I would imagine that to be unlikely), and perhaps that was why it was kept hidden away. His grandfather never spoke of his early life in Londonderry, but I suppose that would not be unusual of that generation.
I dont suppose he will ever know what it was.
regards again Gill
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Hiya Gill,
I'm a couple of names short of the twelve but someone may remember them. I think they may be the men who played a leading role in Irish history ...
Kevin Barry
Michael Collins
Robert Emmett
Henry Grattan
Arthur Griffith
Jim Larkin
Daniel O'Connell
Charles Stewart Parnell
Wolfe Tone
Eamonn De Valera
My other thought is that they may have been the leaders of the Society of United Irishmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_United_Irishmen) but I'm one short ... Henry Haslett, Thomas McCabe, Henry Joy McCracken, Gilbert McIlveen, Samuel Neilson, Thomas Pearce,
Thomas Russell, Robert Simms, William Simms, William Sinclair and Wolfe Tone.
One the museums in Ireland may have a similar scarf but I'm not quite certain which museum.
Christopher
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#Aghadowey Why is Woodrow Wilson's Ancestral home in Dergalt?
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People do tend to have more than one ancestor ;)
The Wilson home was at Dergalt (parental typo for paternal in this article)-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21632085
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Aghadowey
:) - Of Course! (Duh!) Thanks