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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: elsiegee1 on Wednesday 26 April 06 20:31 BST (UK)
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Cyril W A Berry, born 16/05/1909 in Alfreton, Belper, Derby.
I visited a car boot recently and found some papers left in the bottom of a cardboard box in the rain.
I had a quick look through and it has his work references from Ironville Boys School in Nottingham, The Jacksville Council School in Nottingham, James Oakes & Co colliery in Birmingham, his certificate from Birmingham City Police, family letters just after WWII, music exam results and what looks like a draft programme for a concert in which Cyril and what I presume to be his sister are listed.
Oh, and there is an A4 sized photograph with it too which I assume to be a family member.
All these came in the original envelope in which his police papers were sent to him, so it even includes his address in Birmingham after he left the police force.
I thought as it seemed to be the documentation of someone's life up to retirement, I should rescue it.
If anyone can prove they are connected to Cyril, or has any ideas about how I can find his descendants, please contact me via the forum.
Thanks
elsiegee :o
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Well done on the rescue, I hope you manage to find a relevant home for Cyril's papers..
I know how I would kill to get some papers like that on a member of my family needless to say I have very little...
well done again...
Mo
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Dear Elsiegee
Have just seen your post
Maybe I can help
I am the webmaster of the village website
http://www.jacksdale.org.uk
Maybe we could give you some publicity and launch an appeal
Or maybe with a bit more information we can make a local connection
(It is Jacksdale not Jacksville)
best wishes
Mog
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I have just dug out his papers again, and of course you are right, it is Jacksdale.
Any publicity would be helpful, I've had these for a while now and I worry that I will damage them somehow before they get to where they need to go!
By the way, his reference from Jacksdale School was written by the headmaster on 30/7/1929, but i can't make out the signature.
He also has another reference, written by either a Mr Clayton or Hayton, who lived at Clee Cottage in Jackdale (02/08/1929).
Thanks for any help :)
Elsiegee
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The head teacher of Jacksdale School would either have been George Stringfellow or Alec Pringle.
Mr Alfred Clayton is on our Jacksdale website - look in the section - Jacksdale Memorial - WW1 served. He lived at Clee Cottage Dixie Street Jacksdale. I am in touch with one of his family who would be very interested to see the reference.
I have the minutes of the Hospital Committee 1938 in which a Miss G Berry of Laverick Rd Jacksdale is mentioned - you are welcome to a copy.
Will send more soon
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Dear Elsiegee
Do you know who Cyril married ? If he did marry - as he may well have married a local girl whose family are still in the village - a lot of the old families are still here.
I have just searched through all the old school photos we have to see if there is one of Cyril Berry but can not find one - but will ask a couple of other people who may have some old school photos.
We would love to see a copy of the photo of the relative that you have and could use this as the visual for the appeal. Also the background to the photo may give us some clues, or we may even recognise the person.
Likewise a copy of the concert programme would be very interesting -as may be local.
I think there is a PC Berry still local to the area - he used to write crime articles for one of the local papers - I will check it out.
I will pm you with my email address or you can use the contact section of the website
Carol
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Forgot to say
James Oakes & Co were a company local to Jacksdale - they owned numerous businesses - a clay works and several collieries - you will find reference to them on our website.
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Thanks for all this Mog, I will scan some things in and email them over to you for your perusal!
Elsie :)
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Hi,
What a nice thing you are all trying to do :)
In case it helps, this looks like his death registration,
Cyril Wilfred A BERRY Jun 1999 Dudley B47F 87
Birth Date: 16 May 1909
I also found this,
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03qt/
Good Luck :)
Daisy
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Dear Daisy
Wow that is a great find - we now have something to go on.
We now need to look for any births possibly in the Dudley area to Cyril and Irene with mother's maiden name as Cutts to establish whether they had any children.
I have found the family on the 1901 Census at Bridle Lane, Leabrooks, Derbys - about 1 -2 miles from Jacksdale.
1901 Wm Brown Head 52? coal miner b. Notts Bingham
Elizabeth Brown wife 63 ? b. Notts Lowdham
Frank Berry S 23 coal miner hewer b. Derbys Leabrooks
Clara Bertram ? Grand dau 16 b. Leics Loughborough
Alfred Berry S 21 coal loader hewer b. Derbyshire Leabrooks
Elizabeth Brown - formerly Berry - re-married 1899 March to Wm Brown
Her son Frank Berry married Bertha Parkin Sep 1902
with several children born in the Belper Registration District
Her son Alfred Todd Berry (father of Cyril) married Sep 1907 - either to Bertha Hill or Elizabeth Smith. They had F Gwendoline Berry and Cyril Berry - have not identified any other siblings as yet.
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F Gwendoline could be,
Florence Gwendoline BERRY Jnn Q 1907 Belper 7b 724
Daisy
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I've looked 1932-1942 for BERRY/CUTTS births but couldn't find any :(
Daisy
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Well I don't know, I leave you all for 24 hours and look how far you've come! Thanks ever so much.
I'm a bit out of sync now though, soI'll study it and come back to you...
:)
Elsie
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Cheshiremog,
If Cyril would have been 9 when this photo was taken, do you think he would have been on it?
http://www.jacksdale.org.uk/pages/JDHeritage/Schools/IV1918.htm
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Hi Elsie
Thanks for sending over all of the scans - they are very interesting. I can explain one or two things - Yes Cyril attended Ironville Boys School as his school reference was written by the head master there Mr Jackson. As for the photo of the Ironville Boys yes Cyril would have been attending in 1918 - but I do not have names for all the pupils and could not confirm that that particular photo is of his class.
The reference written by Mr Stringfellow of Jacksdale Council Schools relates to Cyrils attendance at evening classes at Jacksdale School - after he left Ironville.
I do not know who Stu Danny Ricky Reg of Violet can be ?
Inch by inch I am sure we will get there !!
Carol
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Don't know if anyone's still following this (it's been a while!) but I've just had a look on freebmd and found a death for an Irene M Berry in Notts in June 1934 (0 years) - poss stillborn? (Notts 7b 308). Also a death for Irene M Berry in Birmingham in June 1959 aged 48 (birm 9c 457), so that seems to fit...
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The baby Irene M. Berry who died June 1934 Notts. was born the same quarter, but her mothers maiden name was Lambert.
Annette
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Electoral rolls show Cyril W A Berry and Irene M Berry were in Birmingham from at least 1945 until 1955 (records don't go any further than this) so that fits with her death in Birmingham.
Annette
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I see in the thread that cheshiremog says that Alfred Todd Berry was the father of Cyril and his sister Florence. Alfred Todd Berry married a Bertha Hill in 1907 and 4 years later they are still childless.
The parents of Cyril and Florence were a plain Alfred Berry who married a Maria Dowman in Nottingham in the Dec.qtr.1906 (Alfred b.1881 Newark, Notts. and Maria b.1886 Metheringham, Lincolnshire. Looks like they were the only children (both born Ironville, Derbyshire) as I cannot find any births after 1911 with mmn Dowman. Looks like Alfred died 1962 Bingham, Notts. and Maria died 1960 Basford, Notts.
There are 2 public trees on Ancestry that show Cyril and his sister (but with no other details for them given) - the owner of one last logged in 1 month ago, the other was logged in today.
Cyril and Irene appear to have had no children but his sister married and, I think, had a daughter born 1944 and a son born 1947 (can't name as likely living).
When Alfred died in 1962 (his wife having predeceased him) he clearly left a will. The index details state:
Alfred Berry of Hawtonville, 40 Laverick Road, Jacksdale, Notts. died 30/4/1962 at Beauvale, Loughbon Road, Orston, Notts. Probate to Cyril Wilfred Arthur Berry, Insurance Claims Clerk and Philip James Chambers, Postman.
Philip James Chambers was his son-in-law who married Florence G Berry in Sept.1942 Basford (she was then 35) and, as mentioned above, possibly had a dau. 1944 and a son 1947.
Hopefully this takes things a little closer.
Annette
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Hello!
This is really exciting - Cyril Berry is my Uncle!!!
I wad just surfing bye hill and jacksdale again and your message popped up - Brilliant - I can't tell you hoe pleased I am.
Uncle Cyril's Wife Marjorie died when I was young and he spent may week-ends and holiday times with us - We toured Ireland together in about 1967 - he was a clever man - made an early DIY TV - was a good pianist and photographer...
But you don't want to know all that!!
I hope I'm not too late to make contact with you...
Kind regards.
Andrew Chambers (son of Cyril's sister Florence Gwendoline Berry)
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Hi Andrew welcome to rootschat - Carol & Martyn here from Jacksdale you sent us an email today. I am just on here seeing if I can find the person who got in touch in the first place to say they had discovered Cyril's documents. You need to post a few comments on rootschat first, before you can send personal messages to users. So get posting!
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I have just sent a PM to elsiegee who found the documents, hopefully she will see this thread or my message and hopefully she still has the papers.
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Thanks for the prod Cheshiremog, I hadn't seen this.. weirdly I was thinking about those papers the other day, randomly.
I still definitely have them but I've moved house twice since so I need to find which safe place I put them in..
Send me your address when you can Andrew, and I'll send them on.
So glad I kept them now :D
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What fantastic news!!
I can't believe that all you people have been doing my work for me - Thanks so much.
Uncle Cyril was a major part of my teenage years but when he remarried we saw very little of him and I can only assume his "new family" carbooted his stuff.
It is such great news to have stumbled across him after all this time.
Andrew Chambers
Kindest regards to all!!!
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A special thanks to Carol & Martyn here from Jacksdaale - without you the trail would have faltered THANKS again to ALL!!
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Thank you Andrew! If you have any photos of Cyril or can tell us more about him then we would love to hear from you. He has been a bit of a mystery to us for some time now thanks to Elsiegees find and her being kind enough to save the documents till someone came forward.
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Cyril is now packaged up ready to post - I will miss him!
Just to echo cheshiremog, it would be great to hear more about Cyril or see photos if you have any, Andrew. He has been part of our lives for a good while now.. ;)
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Thank again to you all - through your efforts I know more about Uncle Cyril than I did before!!
I will certainly post a finale when I get myself together.
Kind regards
Andrew Chambers
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Gold stars all round. :D :D What an amazing story, eleven years have passed but family documents saved and returned to the family. The power of Rootschat and the internet never cease to surprise and delight :D :D
Well done everyone and safe journey home Cyril.
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Uncle Cyril has arrived back safely with his family!!!
He was clearly well thought of...
Interestingly, according to the concert programme he played piano duets with the young lady he married!! what a lovely touch...
Thank you so much again for taking all this trouble.
Kindest regards,
Andrew Chambers