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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Tessy on Tuesday 02 May 06 20:22 BST (UK)
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I've just posted a photo of a group of the 19th battalion Northumberland Fusiliers taken in France during WW1on the photo restoration site on rootschat. If you have any connections please take a look. I would love to know the names of the people in it. My grandfather is the sergeant on the left of the photo. :)
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I have a relative called William Steel who was in the Northumberland Fusiliers at this time. Have no way of recognising him though, sadly, no photo's of him survive that I know of.
I have added a link to the posting on the photo restoration site if anyone else wants a look.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,153230.0.html
Sally
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Thanks Tessy, I will take a look and hopefully I can find a Battalion number.
SallyF, do you know what regiment your William Steel was in?
My G.Grandad, a Francis McGurk was a Northumberland Fusilier also, with regiment number 17197, 1915-1918.
Thanks, Ele.
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Hi Ele,
Sorry for taking so long to reply, been a busy week!!
William Steel was in the 23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Battalion. His service number was 23/772 and he died on 01/07/1916.
We know his memorial is at Thiepval and my husband and son hope to visit in August this year when they go to France for a few days.
Sally
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John Clazey was a member. There is a photograph I have with him in his full uniform. There is a bit of history with this family and World War I...they had an estate in Forfar...rumors abounded at the time that these were German sympathizers. They also had very close ties with Lord Londonderry...and there is a bit of history there as well. Forfar was sold...after WWI...
sharon
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Hi Clazey
My interest is the 19th Battalion NF. I cannot find your John Clazey in lists of officers and men in the Battalion historical records, so I presume he was with another battalion. If you go to this WW1 site you may find people able to help you find out more about your ancestor.
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50464
Tessy
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Hi not relavent to 19 th Battalion but here is some info that my mothers cousins son has collated about our great grandfather
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Its about the above forgot to put link in www.4thbnf.com
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Many thanks for the Gazateer web site. I found John Oswald Clazey beginning in 1915 and I found him with the 3rd Northumbrian Brigade. Then in 1917 he was with the Durham Volunteer Regiment, 2nd Bn. I will have to do more digging to see if he saw active duty. But, it dispells where we thought he was! What I am curious about is that he was a Lieut. Colonel (temporary) and then promoted to temporary major and when he resigned his commission in 1919 for reasons of ill health, he was allowed to keep the honorary rank of major.
I also found the following: Frederick Oswald Clazey, Durham Light Infantry 2 April 1940 and I know that he died. Charles Clazey Broadbelt, 21 st April 1941. Charles was one son of Eleanor or Ellen Craig Clazey and William Broadbelt, one of my great grandfather's sisters. Frederick was the son of John Clazey, Jr.
Many, many thanks...now I can look around to see if any of the Broadbelt line survive today!!
Sharon
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Many thanks for the Gazateer web site. I found John Oswald Clazey beginning in 1915 and I found him with the 3rd Northumbrian Brigade. Then in 1917 he was with the Durham Volunteer Regiment, 2nd Bn. I will have to do more digging to see if he saw active duty. But, it dispells where we thought he was! What I am curious about is that he was a Lieut. Colonel (temporary) and then promoted to temporary major and when he resigned his commission in 1919 for reasons of ill health, he was allowed to keep the honorary rank of major.
I also found the following: Frederick Oswald Clazey, Durham Light Infantry 2 April 1940 and I know that he died. Charles Clazey Broadbelt, 21 st April 1941. Charles was one son of Eleanor or Ellen Craig Clazey and William Broadbelt, one of my great grandfather's sisters. Frederick was the son of John Clazey, Jr.
Many, many thanks...now I can look around to see if any of the Broadbelt line survive today!!
Sharon
J. O. Clazey is listed in the Army List 1915 [January] .. Don't know if this adds anything to what you already have...
David Ford
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Thank you very much for the copy and it explains quite a bit! J.O. Clazey's father (also John Oswald Clazey) was a business associate and friend of Lord Londonderry. From what I have gathered, he was a bit of a spoiled brat. The ranks he held were listed as temporary and I have wondered what qualified him for those. I have a photograph of him in his uniform...quite dashing!
Sharon
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dose any one know how i can get info on1st /6th battalion of the northumberland fusiliers for 1918 I'm look for more info on a fedrick Edward hollowell born 1899 in brafiled northants but joined the northumberland fusiliers and died in 1918 in France his no 75601 i found his burial in the war graves
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Hi Samantha
Click on the invisionzone web site I mention earlier in this thread. You will find people on that forum who will help you in your search
Tessy
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ok tessy thanks for that
sam
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Hi Tessy, I've just joined the site. My grandfather was Private Robert Hopper, of the 19th NF. His service number was 19-1359, which is the number on his military medal. He actually came from Bishop Aukland I think, at least that's where my dad came from.
However, I don't know what he did to get the MM, other than a vague story about rescuing his officer when under fire. No mention of the battle, or when or where ....
He did eventually lose an arm, not apparently in the above incident, and I assume that got him back alive.
Do you have him in your book?
Regards
B.A.
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Available on CD
http://www.genealogysupplies.com/product_display.php?prodid=5778
Cpl R Hopper (MM) to UK, Wounded 25,10,1918
The Historical records has them between 20/10 and 27/10/1918 and says
Companies worked on road which approached pontoon bridges over the river Lys
in the vicinity of Marcke and Bisseghem. On the 25th "Y" moved to Sweveghem and commenced repair of the Sweveghe-Kreupel road.
Their is only mention of nine killed and sixteen wounded on the 20th. "Y" Company, when returning from work, a 4.2 shell llanded in the middle of a platoon. This may have been when he was wounded.
Two other hoppers in the 19th, pte A G Hopper and Sgt J F Hopper, MID, to UK for commision 13,10,1917
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Thank you Peterhastie. That is very interesting. It means he only lost about a fortnight of the war!
Some say the politicians and Generals had already agreed the armistice, but let the war go on to the symbolic 11/11 date. If so, Lloyd George and Haig cost my grandad his arm, and could have been his life.
However, I still don't know what he got his MM for, or when or where. I only ask now because my mum has just died and I have come into possession of the medal.
Does that CD have such information on it?
Regards
BA
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There is no further reference to him in the book.
Awarded MM
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30287/supplements/9608
I assume the Hanwick refers to Hunwick which is near Bishop Auckland.
Do you have a photo of him.
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Not from that time.
There is a photo of him and my granny at Bridlington sometime in the late 1940's somewhere in my mum's treasure chest, but I don't suppose that would be much use.
If the date in the Gazette is round about the time of the conspicuous deed, can we pinpoint the action it must have occurred in? This is the period of the 3rd battle of Ypres. Was the 19th involved in that? Passchendaele?
Blimey. That word still sends a shiver down the spine, doesn't it.
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From the 3/7/1917 to 5/10/1917 the battalion was at Villers Faucon which is a distance from Ypres.
Then moved to Boesinghe by rail with some training inbetween. It seems likely that he was awarded his MM for actions while at Villers Faucon. Nothing specific in the diary
Some images of men of the 19th
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af6/peterhastie/Pict0013.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af6/peterhastie/Pict0012.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af6/peterhastie/Pict0011.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af6/peterhastie/Pict0010.jpg
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Thanks Peterhastie. I'll study those pictures closely.
This is the only photo I have of Corporal Robert Hopper, taken in 1949 with his son Robert, who would have been about the same age as Grandad was in 1917 I guess.
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Is it possible that Grandad could be on picture 0012, front row (seated) second from the left? The nose/mouth geometry is similar, and the ears seem alike.
What do you think?
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Available on CD
http://www.genealogysupplies.com/product_display.php?prodid=5778
Cpl R Hopper (MM) to UK, Wounded 25,10,1918
The Historical records has them between 20/10 and 27/10/1918 and says
Companies worked on road which approached pontoon bridges over the river Lys
in the vicinity of Marcke and Bisseghem. On the 25th "Y" moved to Sweveghem and commenced repair of the Sweveghe-Kreupel road.
Their is only mention of nine killed and sixteen wounded on the 20th. "Y" Company, when returning from work, a 4.2 shell llanded in the middle of a platoon. This may have been when he was wounded.
Two other hoppers in the 19th, pte A G Hopper and Sgt J F Hopper, MID, to UK for commision 13,10,1917
the men killed by this shell on 19/10/18 are buried in Moorseele Military Cemetary
http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries/moorseelemil.htm
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Thanks Tessy.
It's not that incident I'm really concerned with, although we think he may have lost his arm as one of the wounded. It's what he did to win his MM. We have a vague family story of him rescuing his officer under fire, but no citation.
Peterhastie said that the battalion was at Villers Foucan during the summer of 1917 when he won his MM. There was a story on one of the websites about a padre who won an MC in action near Epinay - Lempire at about this time. Although not a 19NF, he was in a unit of the 35th division, so the whole division was in that area.
I figure there must have been skirmishing going on, rather than an all out battle, but I can't seem to get any further.
I would buy"The History of the 35th Division" if I knew there was good info in it. Anybody read it?
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Hi,
If you have a look at my post on the photos section, Topic: Northumberland Fusiliers, you'll see my answers to a couple of questions relating to actions in the summer of 1917 that the 19th Battalion took part in. They were congratulated by the Major General for their work in this situation at The Knoll and Guillemont Farm. This is more than likely the action your granddad won his MM in.
Hope this helps. You could try asking a question on http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/ as they have more knowledge than me.
Tessy
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Dear Peterhastie,
Thank you so much for posting the four photos of members of 19th NF.
It was a real surprise to see No 13 as I have this photo myself and recognised it immediately. The very youthful looking 2nd Lt sitting in the centre middle row is my grandfather James I Willis. He was with the battalion thoroughout the war and luckily came home.
Are you related to anyone in the photos or can you ID anyone else for me?
Thanks very much
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Hello Wincey
Jame I Willis, winner of the Croix de Guerre.
Commisioned from the ranks 29th Aug 1915 having served with the battalion since Nov 1914.
Proceeded to England 20th March 1919.
I have no relations, as far as I know. My interest lies in what the surviving men did in WW2.
Sgt Vernon Vart served in the 19th and in the Home Guard WW2
http://www.ccoynblhomeguard.co.uk/Newcastle%20Battalions.html
Peter
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Thank you Peter
Your website to the Home Guard is fascinating and a real tribute to those shown. I notice that there was a Capt Stabell in the 5th Btn home guard. This could be one and the same who was a friend/colleague of and served with my grandfather in 19th in WW1. I could find out more details and get back to you if it is of interest.
Please can I ask you how you came by the photo 13 and the other photos. Sorry, just to clarify you have no knowledge of the identity of any of the 19th shown on them? Is there anything recorded on the rear of the photos.
Many thanks for sharing and helping me.
Kind regards
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Hello Wincey
Yes please to the info on Alfred Stabell.
All I have is that an Alfred Stabell m Isabella A Bulliens 1916 Ncle and
Alfred Stabell @ 5 Balmoral tce, South Gosforth, with Isabella Adams Stabell (1939 Wallsend Voting Register PD D)
The photo's came from Vernon Varts grandson.
Peter
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Hello all,
I've just stumbled upon this forum/thread and was interested to discover the four photos Peter Hastie posted back in February. The first photo was particularly exciting as it shows my great uncle, Samuel Charlton, on the extreme right, second-back row. Does anyone have any other photos of the Northumberland Fusiliers' 19th Battalion? Great Uncle Sam was sadly killed by the shell alluded to elsewhere on this site which exploded on 19 October 1918. His death date is given as the following day, so I'm guessing he died of his wounds, but have no further information about any hospital admission or potential medical treatment. I include this photo in my possession, with each man named. I hope it might be of interest.
Martin
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Hello Tayn.
It was my Grandad who lost his arm in that incident. He was Corporal Hopper. I wonder if you have the rest of that photograph, and if perhaps he is on it?
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Hi Bishop Aukland,
Thanks for getting in touch. The whole photo should be visible to you, but I think because it's so large you have to scroll along (left to right) to see it all.
It's very interesting to hear about your grandad, who would almost certainly have known my great uncle. I'm sorry to say that Corporal Hopper's name doesn't feature on this particular photo. I wonder if you might have any photos of your grandad with his fellow NF pals, which perhaps my uncle may feature on? I'd be very interested to know.
Martin
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AAh, if only. Unfortunately, my father died young and we somehow lost touch with his family in South Durham. So I have little to go on. Whilst I do have my dad's photo albums, his dad's are still in his family somewhere I guess. When my Mum died, I inherited Grandad's MM, which set me off on a quest. Peterhastie put some photos up on this thread further down. Have you seen them?
All of the people who might have known something, like my Uncle Les and Auntie Millie, are gone now of course. The only relative I actually met who might still be with us is my cousin Colin Bell. I tried to find him, but it is a common name and the search defeated me.
You are right about the photo. I copied it and it all came out.