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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Phil Goater on Friday 12 May 06 15:14 BST (UK)
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Henry Charles and Eliza Jane Colyer ended up in Perth WA with most of their family. I am trying to establish Eliza's maiden name. Their eldest son, Henry, was born about 1876 in America and appears in the English census in 1891 in Cheshire with the family where Eliza is shown as 34
All attempts to etablish her maiden name have proved fruitless for want of a sighting of a marriage.
Is it possible to do a christian name search of the 1861 census in Tunbridge?
Any help much appreciated.
Phil
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Hi
Searching for anybody called Eliza b Tunbridge would not prove that she married Henry Colyer
The 1901 census shows a son Herbert aged 9 born Lymm Cheshire - their only child born in the UK
A copy of his birth cert will give you Eliza's maiden name
You can order online at www.gro.gov.uk
Herbert Colyer December quarter 1891 Altrincham Cheshire
Volume: 8a Page: 189
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Thank you Carole for showing the way ahead.
Phil
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I did have a look for any Eliza b.Tonbrige/Tunbridge area about that time but, as Carole suggests, there were just too many to sight anything conclusive :(
Casalguidi
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The best I could find was an Eliza J Strange born 1857 Tonbridge Wells on RG9/492/69/6 :)
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Thanks to progress elsewhere, I have been given to understand that Eliza's maiden name was Thorneycroft
Can she be found in Tunbridge in the 1861 census?
Phil
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Could this be Eliza? :)
RG9/494/65/8
High Street Tonbridge
John Thorndycraft head age 35 carman born Sutton Vallance
Ann wife age 61??? born Aylesford
Edward son age 9 born Sutton Vallance
Eliza dau age 3 born Tonbridge.
Would appreciate a second opinion on this entry :) :)
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Thanks for that Nessie - it looks distinctly possible.
Is there any sign of them in the 1871 census?
It would appear that Thorndycraft was a variation of Thorneycroft which was confined to the South -East in 1891. The Thorneycroft name also appeared in the Midlands and further north.
Where exactly is Sutton Vallance?
Phil
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Sutton Vallance is a village a few miles south of Maidstone .................
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lm/
Casalguidi :)
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Thank you Casalguidi.
Google was taking me to London and then France!!
I have found that quite a few of the nearby villages had families of Thorneycrofts e.g. East Farleigh,Loose, Linton, Leeds, Otham and the wonderfully named Boughton Monchelsea.
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Sorry haven't been able to find the family in 1871 :(
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Thank you for looking Nessie.
If it's the right Eliza then she probably married in New York so the family's absence in 1871 is a promising sign!
Perhaps it might be more helpful to look at the parents in the 1851 census returns for Sutton Vallance in order to understand the 1861 census.
Phil
P.S. There may be a problem there as I've just discovered the marriage of John Phillips Thorndycraft in the June quarter of 1851 in Malling Kent with a 50% chance of having married Ann Crouch.
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Yes, a John THORNDYCRAFT did marry an Ann CROUCH in 1851 - their refs. match in the Kent Registration Services marriage index http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm :)
Casalguidi
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I have just received this information from an Australian descendant of Eliza's:
"I obtained her maiden name from Herbert’s birth certificate. Herbert was born in Stratham, Lymm on the 1st September 1891. On the birth certificate Eliza’s maiden name was originally written down as Thornicroft, however the registrar has ruled a line through this name and amended it to Thorndycroft. This would tie in with your information regarding the family from Tonbridge."
It's looking good but I guess that I really need to trace Eliza's passage to America and find her marriage certificate to prove the connection. (Alternatively my footballing friends point out that the connection might be proved if any of the descendants were 6'7"!)
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You could try asking for an 1870 American census look up on the US look up requests board. People may have access to immigration records too.
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Hi Phil,
Here are the 1851 census entries from Sutton Vallence:
ref HO107 1618 folio 445 page 9: Sutton Vallence
Richard Thorndycraft head mar age 52 blacksmith (master) born Sutton Vallence
Eliza wife mar age 45 born Snodland
John P son un age 24 brewers lab born Sutton Vallence
Frances dau un age 22 servant born Snodland
James son un age 19 ag lab born Snodland
Rebecca dau un age 11 scholar born Sutton Vallence
Eliza A dau age 7 scholar born Sutton Vallence
John Thorndycraft grandson age 1 born Sutton Vallence
HO107 1618 folio 442 page 2: Sutton Vallence
James Barten head widr age 68 Brewer employing 2 men and 1 boy born Bethersden
Eliza Crispe step dau un age 36 housekeeper born Sutton Vallence
Anne Crouch serv un age 21 general servant born Aylesford
As John was a brewers lab he could well have worked for James Barten, the brewer.
The 1851 census was taken on the night of 31st March, so John and Ann would not have married until the following quarter.
Hope this helps,
xx Carol
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Have found these entries in 1841 which may be relevant:
HO107 462-11 folio 21 page 9: Lower Street, Sutton Vallence
Eliza Thorndycraft age 35
John age 15
James age 10
Rebecca age 1
all born in county
(My CD seems to have folio 20 missing, can anyone add the entry from that page please)
HO107 456-05 folio 42 page 11: Hermitage, Aylesford
Edwd Crouch age 35 ag lab
Jane age 35
Jno age 14 (John)
Ann age 11
Edwd age 8
Henry age 4
Willm age 1
all born in county
Couldn't find any other likely candidates for John and Ann in 1841.
xx Carol
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Thank you Carol, it makes a lot of sense, especially Anne's age. I couldn't believe that a 61 year old had a daughter aged 3!!!
Would it be possible to see if Anne had any more siblings in the 1851 census?
Thanks also to bearkat - I'll give it a go.
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Here's the Crouch family in 1851:
ref HO107 1612 folio 67 page 21: Bull Lane, Aylesford
Edward Crouch head mar age 48 ag lab born Aylesford
Jane wife mar age 50 born Bearsted
Edward son un age 18 ag lab born Aylesford
Henry son age 13 ag lab born Aylesford
William son age 10 ag lab born Aylesford
Jane dau age 8 scholar born Aylesford
(So just the one daughter added to the family in 1851)
xx Carol
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Thank you Carol, that's great. It's opened the door to a few extracted records on the IGI which takes the Crouch connection back a couple of generations.
Of course that would be meaningless if it wasn't the right Eliza but following bearkat's suggestion I have received the following sighting of the family in New York in 1880 (thanks to Nutkin):
THORNDYCRAFT John WM 54
THORNDYCRAFT Ann WF 50
THORNDYCRAFT Harry WM 17
THORNDYCRAFT Jane WF 18
The circumstantial evidence now puts any doubts to rest. It also confirms Ann's age.
Thanks again to Nutkin I've now found this index reference to the marriage of Harry which proves it's Ann Crouch:
http://www.dcnyhistory.org/oldnewsidx/marriageslinda8.html
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Hello there
I realise that this thread is from a long time ago but I have only just signed up to RootsChat
Eliza Jane Thorndycraft was my great grandmother and I have a fair bit of knowledge about her and the Colyer family connection. I also have some brick walls that I'd be happy to share
Eliza is buried in Karrakatta Cemetery in Perth, Western Australia where I live. She met an untimely end
Anybody still interested out there, happy to chat
Mike Colyer
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Hi there Mike and welcome to Rootschat!
Welll, that was a surprise alert this morning!
I opened this thread when researching my friend Barry Colyer’s family tree following my contribution to a charity auction. I don’ t know if you are in touch with him but I have passed on your message to him.
To clarify - when you refer to your brick walls you are referring to dead ends in your family tree and not part of the Colyer family physical legacy in Perth!
Best Wishes,
Phil