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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset Lookup Requests => Somerset => England => Somerset Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mandmsports on Friday 12 May 06 21:16 BST (UK)
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Still on Joseph Harper, born in Somerset in 1843 or 44. Is there any info on birth details, please? Parents names believed to be Joseph and Sarah Harper but am starting to have second thoughts. Father was supposed to have been from Long Ashton.
Thank you,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I found the following in the BMD records:
June Quarter 1843
HARPER, Joseph
Bedmimster XI 80
According to GENUKI (http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/districts/bedminster.html) Long Ashton came under the Bedminster registration district.
I also found the following family in the 1871 census for Bromley, Kent (RG10/873 Folio 126 Page 36):
Joseph HARPER, Head, 28, Raolway Guard, b. Somerset, Long Ashton
Emily HARPER, Wife, 29, b. Kent, Lydd
Eliza M HARPER, Dau, 7, b. Kent, New Romney?
Joseph Fred'k ditto, Son, 3, b. Surrey, Clapham
Could this be the Joseph Harper you're looking for?
Regards,
Al
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Al,
Thank you for that. I know, for a fact, that the Joseph Harper that you found in the census is my Joe. As far as the birth record, I would need to know the proximity of Bedminster to Long Ashton. The date seems to be there, though. It is rumoured, in family lore, that Joseph's father, (another Joseph), was a solicitor in Long Ashton. I am still trying to learn my Brit geography, as it were. Thanks again.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
The link below will take you to a map of the area South West of Bristol and you'll see that Bedminster & Long Ashton are about 5km apart.
Bedminster & Long Ashton (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&GridE=-2.59290&GridN=51.43900&lon=-2.59290&lat=51.43900&place=Bedminster+Station,Bristol&db=freegaz&scale=100000&search_result=Bedminster%20Station%2CBristol&lang=&db=freegaz&keepicon=true)
I would say it's a fairly safe bet that the birth record I found is for the same Joseph HARPER from the 1871 census. To be sure you'd have to order a copy of the birth certificate from the Gerneral Registry Office - they will deliver anywhere in the world. You can do this on line at www.gro.gov.uk and the birth certificate would have the names of Joseph's parents.
Regards,
Al
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Hi again,
I've just had another go at searching the earlier censuses for Joseph HARPER born 1843/44 (I couldn't find anything before 1871 yesterday!) and came up with the following:
1851 Census New Romney, Kent (HO107/1634 Folio 75 Page 19)
Joseph HARPER, Head, 39, Solicitor's General Clerk, b. Gloucestershire, Newnham??
Sarah M ditto, Wife, 40, b. St. Johns Newfoundland ??
Joseph ditto, Son, 8, b. Somerset Long Ashton
Looks like family lore was pretty close to the mark!
Regards,
Al
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Al,
You are "bang on" with the above info. We have always believed that Joseph Sr was a lawyer but, as the census shows, he was a legal clerk, basically. Sarah is the daughter of the late Reverend John Harris, who died in St John's in January of 1810.
The census also places young Joseph in Kent, clear across the southern end from Somerset, but, guess what! That is where he met and married my great grandmother. She was born in Deal!
Thank you so much. You have found something that we have been trying to find for some time.
All the best,
Mike in Canada
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Hi Again,
I've searched the 1861 census for Joseph Junior without success but I think I've found Joseph Senior although his wife seems to be recorded with another name ???. This may be an enumerator's mistake.
1861 Census, New Romney, Kent (RG9/555 Folio 61 Page 13)
Joseph HARPER, Head, 49, Collector of Rates under the Poor Law Board, Accountant & General Agent, b. Gloucestershire, Newnham
Phebe HARPER, Wife, 50, b. St Johns Newfoundland, British Subject
I've also found the following in the International Genealogical Index (IGI) at www.familysearch.org
Joseph HARPER
Birth: 13 AUG 1811
Christening: 09 SEP 1811 Newnham, Gloucester, England
Father: Thos. HARPER
Mother: Mary
Batch No. C030421
Joseph HARPER
Marriage: 11 APR 1839 St Andrews, Clifton, Gloucester, England
Spouse: Sarah Margaret HARRIES
Batch No. M172352
The first record is almost certainly your Joseph Senior although I'm less sure about the second. Clifton is in the West of Bristol and you can just see it's location at the top of the map from the link I gave you.
Hope this is useful.
Regards,
Al
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Al,
You are THE man! You may still be on to something. I have no doubt that you have my Joe Sr in ALL cases. Let me explain. Sarah Harris' mother's name was Phoebe. She also had a sister, Phoebe. Could it be that Sarah passed on and Joe "got it on" with his sister-in law or did Old Joe get confused at census time and mention that Phoebe was his mother-in-law? Hmmm. Do you see any death records for Sarah?
I have seen Joseph Harper's name mentioned, in regards to documents dealing with Workhouses. I am sure that this is my Joe.
I am impressed. Thank you, once again or should I say Gracios Amigo!
Mike
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Hi Al,
Just a note to say that you were bang on. Turns out that Sarah Margaret Harper died in 1853. Joseph, later married his sister-in-law, Phoebe, (Phebe), in 1854.
Phebe had been widowed, (don't know when , yet), from George Durham and left with 2 small children, Betsey and Ann.
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Hi Mike,
Do you know when Ph(o)ebe died? Look what I found in 1871:
1871 Census, St Mathews, Brixton (RG10/689 Folio 73 Page 10)
Address: 80 Geneva Road
Joseph HARPER, Head, 58, Railway Clerk, b. Newnham, Gloucester
Julia M ditto, Wife, 40, b. Sidmouth, Devon
In the BMD records at www.freebmd.org.uk I also found:
Marriages June Quarter 1861
Cheltenham 6a 682
HARPER, Joseph
HARRIS, Julia Elizabeth
and
Marriages September Quarter 1869
Portsea 2b 715
HARPER, Joseph
STONE, Julia Matilda
It could be that neither of these are your Joseph but the surname of the first Julia caught my attention (Could he have married a third Harris sister :o ?)
Regards,
Al
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Hi Al,
That is freaky! BUT, I really don't think that is my Joe. In an 1861 census, it shows Phebe still with him.
Sarah and Phebe didn't have a sister Julie, as far as I know. there was an Elizabeth but she would have been much older and there was a Jane, but no Julie. Thank you for digging, though.
Where about, would Portsea be? In 1869 Joseph would be about 59-60. I believe that he would have still been in Kent, as was his son, another Joseph Harper who worked as a Railway Guard. (I guess that ould be like a frieght conductor to us colonial types ;)
Mike, In Canada
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Hi Mike,
The 1861 census was taken on 7th April so it's just possible that your Joe could have married the 3rd Miss Harris although like you, I think it's unlikely! The second one looks more plausable, not only because of the date but also the middle name (Julia M HARPER in the census).
Portsea is on the South coast of England, roughly in the middle and near the city of Portsmouth so some distance from both Kent and Gloucestershire. There again, he was a Railway Guard in 1871 so he would have traveled about a bit.....
It just occurred to me to have a look at the 1881 census for Joseph & Julia and...
1881 Census, Portsea, Hampshire (RG11/1158 Folio 39 Page 28)
Juia HARPER, Boarder, Widow, 56, Annuitant, b. Devon, Sidmouth
The head of household is one Richard TING, Property House Owner.
I think Railway Guards used to stand in the last carriage of a train (where freight was carried) and blew a whistle as the train moved off.
Regards,
Al, In Mexico
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Hi Al,
I really don't think that any of my Josephs were married to Julie. I see a Joseph Harper in the 1871 census, living in London, born in newnham, Gloucester about 1813. Name, dates and place of birth fit but can not access details of census.
My other Joseph Harper, (the son), married Emily Philips in 1866. She died and he then married Angela Charlotte (Eastes) Tierney, (my great grandmother), in 1884.
So, in light of the above info, The Joseph in Portsea must be another Joseph from another family.
Thanks for digging.
Mike In Canada
PS, Your name does not sound "native" to Mexico! You must be a "transplant"!
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Al,
I am sorry that I doubted you! It appears that Joseph did marry Julie Matilda Stone.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
The Joseph HARPER you found in London in 1871 is the same one whose details I posted yesterday (married to Julia). Brixton is in South London.
You're right about me not being a native Mexican, you've probably guessed from my knowledge of geography that I'm a Brit by birth. I grew up in Somerset (England) which is why I check the Somerset board from time to time to see if I can help with anything. I came out the Mexico on a three year ex-pat contract and seven years later I'm still here, now with a Mexican wife and two half Mexican daughters!
Regards,
Al
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Al,
You are right again. My cousin and I have been working that one out. Old Joe moved around quite a bit. The London Joseph is one and the same. Married three times, widowered twice and made a widow out of Julia.
I guess that you can say that the climate in Mexico agrees with you.
Although I was born in canada and live here now, I lived in Croydon, Manchester and Chelsea when I was a kid. I was too young to really remember it, though.
Mike
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Moderator,
this thread can be closed, thank you.
mike
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Hi,
The following has been entered on the web page for Saint Peter Anglican Church Cemetery
Toronto Twp, Peel County, Ontario, Canada
1745 Dundas St. West
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
http://www.interment.net/data/canada/ontario/peel/toronto/stpeter/stpeter.htm
Harper, Joseph, d. 8 Feb 1898 age 54 at Streetsville, s/o the late Joseph Harper, Solicitor of Long Ashton Somersetshire England, and grandson of the late Rev. John Harris, Chaplain to the Garrison of St. Johns Nfld.,
this Harper was my dad's ggg (?) grandfather. We followed this back to the cook family as well. Does this help? If you think we should talk.
I have tons of paperwork that my dad copied before he died. He was George Caswell.
M
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Hi Mary. I sent you a pm. I knew George Caswell. I visited him a few times, near "5 corners", a few years ago. I remember his back yard and the with white pails set in each corner, so that he could mow the lawn! :)
Mike
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I do not see an Angela anywhere.