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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: Will Marshall on Monday 15 May 06 16:18 BST (UK)
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Ive recently come across a family secret which apparently has been on the hush for along time. Basically I have a come across a George Thomas Holmes to a [already married] Sophia Doy [nee Wrathman]. He was born on the 28th of October 1873 at 17 Loyd Street Linthorpe York. However I have been told she was already married within my family.
I have a George Doy born 1899 in Scarborough during the 1901 census. This is my Great granddad. His mothers name was Hannah Doy. I have been told that Hannah's husband could be this man [Holmes] who took on the name Doy. Or alternatively Hannah's brother in law. So confused! this is what I have been told but i have no way of proving this.
If anybody can confirm a connection or dig up anything on Sophia Doy/Wrathman it would be a great help to me, as I'm so confused right now.
Id really appreciate any help
Thanks
Will
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How about this from the 1871 census
19 Lloyd St, Linthorpe
Sophia Doy H M 36 laundress b Stockton, Durham
William J Doy S 13 b Norfolk wells
John H Doy S 11 b " "
William H Hills neph 10 b Middlesborough
Mary E Doy D 1 b Middlesborough
Thomas Holmes lod 30 lab ironworks b Bradford
Interesting???
Sue
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And in 1861 still no sign of the elusive husband
East End, Wells, Norfolk
Sophia Doy H M 28 farmer's wife b Stockton
William James Doy S 3 b Wells
John Henry Doy S 1 b Wells
Hum????
Sue
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In 1861 I thought it said Mariners wife which would make more sense, especially as she was living in what was then a port. Wells.
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How about this for a marriage Stockton March qtr. 1856 William Doy, on the same page is Sophia Wraithman. Ref. no. is 10a 61
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Jaywit I stand corrected it does in fact say mariner's wife which would account for his absence.
Sorry, more haste less speed
Sue
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In 1881 the children are together but no Sophia
13 Roy St, Salford, Lancs
William Doy H M 22 paint salesman b Wells
Elizabeth Doy W M 21 b Wrexham
John Doy brother 21 market porter b Wells
Mary E Doy relative 13 scho;ar b Middlesborough
Sue
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Thomas Holmes born Bradford c1841, on the 1861 there are 2, one is a cabinet maker living with his parents, I don't think it will be him. The other is a seaman on board the vessel Tweed of Stockton. Looks more likely.
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Getting back to Hannah Doy, she was Hannah Burton and she married George Thomas Doy in March qtr. 1899, registered at Scarborough. In 1901 she was living with her parents. So looks like George Thomas was the same one born 1873 in York. Ref. for the marriage is 9d 507
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Will, do you actually have George Thomas Holmes birth certificate?
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Thanks for all the info so far very interesting!!! I have the birth certificate which was sent to me today. It Doesn't actually have the fathers name on it but does clearly state he is a Holmes. It is a modern copy of the old one and states Sophias mark was an x. I'm assuming it therefore is quite possible that wrathman is wraithman as her name could have been interpreted by the registrer as this.
All this Info so far is definetly opening new doors.
Thanks so much
Will
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I think that this is George Thomas in 1881
1881 Nafferton
William Jefferson H M 42 shoe maker b Nafferton
Mary a Jefferson W M 43 b Stockton
Sophia Smith D U 20 b Middleborough
Thomas F Smith GS 2mths b Nafferton
George Thomas Doy neph 7 b Middlesborough
At first I wasn't convinced then I looked at the 1871 which ties together what we have so far
Sue
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1871 Barin St Stockton
George Hill H 32 roller b Tharney, Cambs
Elizabeth Hill W 30 b Stockton
Emma Hill D 12 b Middlesborough
William Hill S 10 b "
George Hill S 7 b "
John J Hill S 3 mths b Stockton
Sophia Smith niece 10 b Middlesborough
Not sure that it's all sorted yet but definitely food for thought as Sophia has a nephew William Hills aged 10 with her in 1871
Sue
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I found one more interesting thing on freeBMD
BIRTH
George Thomas H Doy Dec 1873 Stockton 10a 88
Sue
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Hi will
I no it has been many years since you were looking into this, but did you ever get to the bottom of it?
George Doy was my greatgrandad also and on researching the family tree myself i have hit the same wall you did back in 2006...very confusing! so if by chance you get this message any help would be really appreciated.
Thankyou.
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Hi Beth
Welcome to Rootschat!
Are these the people who you mention?
Birth 1899 QJun Scarbro' 9d 408 George Alfred Doy ( mother's maiden name Burton )
(Source FREEBMD / GRO)
Marriage 1899 QMar Scarbro' 9d 507 George Thomas Doy / Hannah Burton
(Source FREEBMD)
Ray
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Hi...yes they are.
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Hi
Now you have posted 3 times you can send a msg to Will via the PM Personl message system.
Click on his username and "send pm"
Ray
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Yes mother’s maiden name burton..
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Hi ray, yes mother’s maiden name was burton. I have found her record of birth and also no she was living with her parents on the 1901 census, along with 2 children. I also found a record of death for her in 1902...
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Hi Beth
It helps alot if you post references and full info of what you found.
It saves duplication of effort ( and mistakes ;D ) already spent on research, and ensures that we are all on the same "page".
R
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I have the birth certificate which was sent to me today. It Doesn't actually have the fathers name on it but does clearly state he is a Holmes.
Then Holmes is a forename, not the surname. A child's surname is not entered on a birth certificate; the entry is indexed under mother's married name or if she doesn't have one, her maiden name.
The birth Sueh2 reply #13 found is on the GRO index as
DOY, GEORGE THOMAS HOLMES WRATHMAN
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in STOCKTON Volume 10A Page 88
which is correct as Sophia's maiden name was Wra(i)thman & her married name Doy - even if a man named Holmes was the father. If he was not present at the registration, he could not be named as father.
ADDED: Will Marshall has not been active on rootschat since Jun 2007 but if email address is still the same, should get an email notification of the reincarnation of this thread.
Let us know, Beth, if you manage to contact him via personal message. And a belated welcome from me too :)
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Thankyou...I’m sure I will contact will just to see if he ever got to the bottom of it, as I have just found some more records which have helped hugely and I think I have made sense of it all.
I did find a baptism record for George thomas Holmes doy in April 1974 And the fathers name was listed Thomas Holmes and mother’s Sophia
Parish baptism records
MIDDLESBOROUGH
arc ref pr/m(h)1/8