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Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: JK on Saturday 20 May 06 12:06 BST (UK)
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Am looking for help with Grimshaws in Ontario,
Found the first family in the 1881 Canadian census -
Joseph (born 1841 England, Hackney)and Mary Ann with their 7 children; as there is a gap between Leonard born in 1870 England and the next Francis born 1873 Ontario, they must emigrated between these dates. Joseph was a Carpenter. Can anyone help me trace them further?
Also any information on Josiah and Caroline (possibly Nellie) Grimshaw (both born 1875-7 England) have very little to go on with them, they may have had a daughter Doris born in England in 1900.
Lastly Linsay, Linsey or Sidney Grimshaw (born 1884 England, Islington) wife unknown had 2 children born in Canada; Edna & Cecil (sorry no dates). He was a bricklayer.
Sorry it's so vague, any help greatly appreciated, thanks. JK
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Hi there,
Found a birth registration for:
Cecil Sidney Edward Grimshaw
Born: July 6, 1906
County of York
Father: Sidney Grimshaw
Mother: Edith Lillian Dakivel (?)
Karen
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Death Registration for:
Mary Ann Grimshaw
Date of Birth: December 31, 1842
Birthplace: Oxford, England
Address: 314 Ridou St., London, Ontario
Name of Father: Unknown, England
Mother: Hannah Crawford, England
At place of death: 10 years
In Province: 60 years
Date of Death: August 4, 1930
Name of Informant: George W. Grimshaw, son, 314 Ridou St., London
Place of Burial: Woodland
Cause of Death: Cardio Vascular Renal (?) Disease
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Death Registration for:
Celia Louise Grimshaw
Date of Death: July 11, 1908
Age: 27
Place of Birth: Ontario
Address: 155 Tecumseh Ave., London
Single
Occupaton: Bookkeeper
Cause of Death: Tuberculosis
Length of Illness: 1 year
Informant: Francis H. Grimshaw
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Wow thanks Karen, that was quick work!
Am sure they are all correct, This had been a closed line on my tree and until I joined RootsChat the other day, I had no idea how I would find any information on my Canadian relations!! Now have a couple of new leads to work on. I had Mary Ann down as a Watson, so will have to do some more digging on the Crawford name and also had no idea where she was from. Celia Louise I know is Mary Ann & Josephs daughter and Francis the informant was her brother. Nice to have a name for Sidney's wife will have to try and find out more on her. We have very little information at all about these Grimshaws but my mother does have a beautiful photograph handed down from my Grandmother of Edna and Cecil taken in a studio in Toronto. I guess at some point the families sadly lost contact. I would love to find a living branch, maybe one day!!! Thanks again. JK
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Great help so far, now could anyone point me in the right direction or help me find any of them on ships lists??
Joseph and Mary Ann Grimshaw would have emigrated around 1870 with children Joseph & Leonard.
Josiah, Caroline & baby Doris must have emigrated some time between late 1900 and the 1901 British census.
Sidney went after the 1901 census but before 1906.
Sorry to be so demanding, I have no problem navigating British records but have no clue on passenger lists or foreign records :(
Cheers
JK
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Hi JK,
Did you know that the 1901 and 1911 Canadian census are online at http://automatedgenealogy.com?
I took a quick peek and didn't see them as Grimshaw, but they may be hiding under a mistranscription. Hope you can find them!
Ships records are another matter. Library and Archives Canada has passenger manifests from about 1865 well into the 1900s, but they are not indexed. They are on microfilm, chronologically by port. So unless you can narrow the arrival down to a pretty specific date (i.e. within a month or two) it is a pretty tough search just scrolling through reams of film hoping to spot their name. Some people have started transcriptions and put them on-line, but it is hit-and-miss. Check out the ships list entry under the Canada Resources section of this board for more info.
Hope that helps!
MJP
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Thanks for that MJP,
No I had no idea there were any Canadian censii (?) to look up. (apart from the 1881 on LDS site). Will have a play with that :).
Kinda figured ships lists were complicated, maybe will leave that, perhaps will get easier in the future :-\.
Thanks again for the advice, is a bit of a minefield out there, much appreciated.
JK
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Hi JK
You can also check out the Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid http://www.islandnet.com/cgi-bin/ms2/jveinot/search
where you will find some of your Grimshaw's
Karen
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Looks like Josiah served in WWI, his wife Caroline Nellie Grimshaw is his next of kin.
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366134a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366134b.gif
Karen
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Thanks you guys :)
Found Mary Ann and 2 of her daughters on the 1901 census and possibly 1 of her sons and his wife. Nothing conclusive on the cemetery search although there is a Nellie! :-\
The attestation page is fantastic Karen (the 2nd link didn't work however? ???) even has his signature.
Is nice to give some flesh to the bones of these Grimshaws. Had long been curious as to what became of them after they left London.
Canada records seem very confusing to a Brit used to archives from a tiny Island :-[
Cheers
JK
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Just found Joseph, Mary Ann and Children on a passenger record from 1870 on a site called 'In Geneas' via a link from Olive Tree found on here. Now just have to wait for it to drop into my inbox :)
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Having spent some time reading through some of the posts and advice on the Canadian boards, I have been able to find Edna's birth entry on the Ontario Vital Stat's project. Seems she is Edith not Edna and her mothers maiden name was Oakwell. Thanks all for sharing your knowledge on what websites are out there, has helped loads.
JK
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Hi JK,
Wasn't sure if you were aware how to access those military attestation papers through the database, without using the direct links above. Start at http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020106_e.html and click "search the database", then just search on his name and you should find his entry. It will give you links to the two pages of the att. papers (the second link that didn't work for you is the second page) as well as a link with instructions on how you can order copies.
There is much more in the file than just the att. papers. It is worth ordering if you feel you can spring for it - the photocopying cost they charge is quite reasonable.
And it's great to hear that you have found their passenger record - what a find! Finding Canadian ships list entries is really tricky, so you have struck it lucky ;D
MJP
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MJP
I had no idea about any Canadian sites before joining this forum!!!! Am now learning quickly!!! I looked through the Resources topic and played around on some of the suggested sites on there. So thanks for all those who shared there knowledge. Knowing that the 3 families were in Ontario helped I guess.
I think I was lucky with the passenger list because it seems it may have been one of the well documented vessels with some 260 'home children' on-board (another subject I knew nothing of!!).
Thanks again for everyones help.
Has given me a break from some of my British 'brick walls' ;)
JK
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Hi JK,
Here is another site for you:
It's the Toronto Archives for Assisted Passage to Canada
http://ao.minisisinc.com/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/HAWKE?DIRECTSEARCH
If you enter Grimshaw....you will get a result for a J. Grimshaw in 1870 wh0 emigrated with an adult female and 3 children. Could this be your chap?
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Indi
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Hi Indi,
yes I think that is them. They are the same details I found on the Olive Tree link. Looks like there is a daughter called Rosalie I didn't know about. I looked up the ship yesterday which I think is the SS Moravian not Moravin as printed, which is how I found the article on the home children. Can't believe I have been able to find so much so quickly with all you guys help :D
Thanks again
JK
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Quick update, received transcript from inGeneas of passenger record, was quicker than I expected and gives me names for 2 more children :).
This is the photo of Edith & Cecil I mentioned, taken I guess around 1912. I have now written to some of the Grimshaws listed in the phone directory for Toronto/Ontario in the hope I can trace some living relatives. Keep your fingers crossed for me. JK
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/jalison/ec.jpg)
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Can any of you helpful Canadians find the marriage details of Sidney Grimshaw and Edith Oakwell? Should be in Toronto between 1901 and 1905. Thanks JK.
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Hi JK,
I'm having troubel finding Sidney and Edith. Are you sure they didn't marry in England?
But I did find this - don't know if you have it:
Marriage Record
Registration # 009416-94 (Oxford Co.)
His Name: Leaonard John Grimshaw
Age:24
Residence: London, Ontario
Place of Birth: London England
Bachelor
Profession: Machinist
Parents: Joseph B. and Mary Grimshaw
Her Name: Annie Flora McDonald
Age: 23
Residence: Ingersoll, Ontario
Place of Birth: Ingersoll, Ontario
Spinster
Parents: James and Elizabeth Amelia McDonald
Names and Residences of Witnesses: Daniel McDonald and Dolend E. McDonald both of Ingersoll
Date and Place of Marriage: Aug 29 1894 Ingersoll Ontario
Religion of Groom: Presbyterian
Religion of Bride: Methodist
Married by: J H Hazelwood
By License
And his untimely death:
Registration #: 016239-97 (Middlesex Co.)
County of Middlesex, City of London (Ontario)
Name: Leonard J. Grimshaw
Date of Death: August 26th 1897
Age: 27
Address: Morlley (or Worlley?) Road
Occupation: Machinist
Place of Birth: England
Cause of Death: Mau...? Cielinsis(?) of liver 1 yr.
Physician in attendence: Dr. G. P. Westland
Religion: Methodist
Person Making Return: G. P. Westland MD
Date of Registration: Aug 28th 1897
And Leonard's obituary appeared in the Ingersoll Chronicle (hometown of his wife). A transcription can be ordered for free from the local library:
http://www.ocl.net/genealogy/chronicle/
Hope that helps!
MJP
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Thanks MJP,
Funnily I also found that marriage this afternoon!! ;). Didn't find the death entry though so thanks for that, will order the Ingersoll Chronicle document. I will have another troll for a Sidney/Edith marriage in England but haven't found one so far. They are pretty elusive!!!
Cheers for the help.
JK
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Quick update, just received the obit from the Ingersoll Chronicle seems Leonard died following a scalding accident at the London Box Factory. Odd because the cause of death on the death registration seems to suggest he had a disease of the liver? Do you think the Ingersoll Chronicle might also have a record of the accident? Am intrigued now.
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Hi Karen & MJP
Just to let you know I finally received Josiah's WW1 service record this morning all 77! pages of it. (I had almost given up hope having posted the letter at beginning of June). Gosh what a lot of information, so thank you for pointing me in the right direction, I'm delighted, although poor Josiah it seems didn't have a good war (did anyone!). Luckily probably for him, he was discharged as physically unfit with Chronic Bronchitis caught on a 20 mile march in the rain!!! He had already been 'blown up' and had shell shock!!!
I have also heard from a relative in Australia that confirms that Josiah and his brothers were still in contact at this time as they knew (from his brother's diary) that he was in one of the hospitals mentioned in his medical records!!
Thanks again for all your help
JK
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Good to hear JK! Those service records can be quite fascinating. I don't know if you've seen this - go here and scroll down a bit to find links to 4 different pages that show how to read some of the different documnets in the file
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogy/022-909.006-e.html
And now that you know his battalion and regiment, you might find the war diaries of his particular group in this database:
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020152_e.html
It won't mention him by name, but it will give you an idea of what his group was up to at any given time.
Enjoy!
MJP
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Thanks MJP, I'll give it a go. The archives kindly include an abbreviation list which is very helpful. Of course a lot of the writing is very illegible, I'll take it to mum's next time I visit, she has a very useful magnifying glass ;)
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Hi JK,
Thanks for keeping us updated. There is some great information in those military files. Even the simplest thing can provide a huge clue. I have had my gr-grandfather's for a number of years, but everyone now and then I go over them, cause there is always something I've missed.
You would think the Ingersol Newspaper would have something on the accident, it sounds like a newsworth event. Ingersoll was not that big back then. You have a date roughly, so I'm sure someone would be able to check for you.
Karen
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Hi, J.K.
You may still be right that Mary Ann could have been a Watson, as the document may have had her mother's full maiden name as Hannah Crawford...
Just poked in to this thread and put my 2 cents worth in!
Lovely photo and exciting to hear about the full file in the military records! J.J.
p.s. I am usually good at finding the census flubs...but this one has stumped me :P
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If you are trying to concentrate on Toronto and the surrounding area, here is a place to start
Start with Area Codes: 416 – 905
then 705 - 519 - 613 - 807
416
Scarborough
East York
905
Markham
Pickering
Newmarket
Brampton
Oakville
Ajax
Aurora
Stouffville
Hamilton
Whitby
Bowmanville
416 Area Codes are within the City of Toronto, but don't necessarily show up when you type in Toronto.
905 Area Codes are the towns and cities surrounding Toronto. For Instance: Markham, Pickering and Brampton, actually start where Toronto boarder stops. (Most of these 905 exchanges are considered part of the "Greater Toronto Area" but again are listed under their own names in the Canada 411 site.
I have listed the area codes in order of how close they are to Toronto.
Hope this helps, and best of luck!
Janice
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You would think the Ingersol Newspaper would have something on the accident, it sounds like a newsworth event. Ingersoll was not that big back then. You have a date roughly, so I'm sure someone would be able to check for you.
Karen
Received this today from a research assistant from the library, how terribly sad. Feel a bit numb really even though he was only very loosely related :'(. He was still one of mine :(
FRIGHTFULLY SCALDED
A Cap Blows Off a Large Steam Pipe Flooding Grimshaw and Throwing Him to the Floor – Inhaled Steam Causes His Death – How He was Rescued
Leonard Grimshaw, a machinist employed at Leonard’s Foundry, London, son-in-law of Mr. James McDonald of this town, met with a terrible accident at Watson’s box factory yesterday morning. He was fearfully scalded by steam, and could not recover. The outer skin peeled off nearly all his face and body, causing great pain. Grimshaw was removed to the City Hospital in a conveyance, where everything was done to alleviate his sufferings. He was conscious until his death, which occurred at 2:30 o’clock in the afternoon. The inhaled steam was the cause of death. The London Free Press says the accident happened through the bursting of a cap in a large steam feed pipe. A 145 horse power engine has just been put in the factory, and Grimshaw was in charge of it. The engine had been running but a few minutes when a loud report was heard and the employees rushing into the engine room found it filled with steam. Engineer Bright had the presence of mind to run to the boiler house and shut off the steam, while others hurried to the front entrance to the engine room and battered in the door. Grimshaw was found lying beside the door, where the steam had thrown him, writhing in horrible agony. He had been standing beside the engine and the tap bursted immediately over his head, with the result that the live steam covered him. Grimshaw was a married man, living on Bruce Street. He leaves no children. Deceased was a resident of South London nearly all his life, and was very highly esteemed as a quiet, industrious young fellow. The remains were removed to the residence of his mother, Tecumseh Ave. Deceased was recently the victim of a very serious accident on the street railway, but had recovered. Mr. McDonald was notified of the accident to his son-in-law and with his daughter went to London at once, but unfortunately were unable to be of much service.
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You likely have this by now but wil post anyway:
Mary Ann is a widow in 1901, with Marion & Celia still in Westminster, Middlesex South:
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/DisplayPagePanb.jsp?id=71497&highlight=26
son George & wife Leontine
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/DisplayPagePanb.jsp?id=71598&highlight=9
Edith's name could be Ockwell...
So sorry to hear about such a painful death for this young man....
Leonard's wife remarried in 1903
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~maryc/oxford03.htm
J.J.
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There's a Leontine S. Grimshaw (Baker) buried...Woodland, London, Middlesex
http://www.islandnet.com/cgi-bin/ms2/jveinot/search
as well as
Frederick Albert {Teddie} & George W.
and Eleanor J. ( perhaps Frederick's wife then?)
J.J.
Other GRIMSHAW elsewhere::
Charles Woodlawn Guelph
Ellen G. "
Emma Elizabeth "
Fred "
Isabel "
Lillian L. Marymount
Mary J. "
Dennis J. "
Nellie Woodlawn
GRIMSHAW J. E., Pte. St Joseph's Roman Catholic Guelph
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Found Joseph on the 1901 as J.B....Checked was born Hackney BMD- Joseph B. (or there was also a Joseph R.) Leonard was born Hackney http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test9.jsp?id=95856&highlight=14
with wife Emma j. and also daughter Marian born 1897 J.J.
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This is likely his attestation papers as Joseph Baker Grimshaw...wife down as Emma J, born Jan 25 , 1866 London, England...ordained Baptist minister
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366133a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366133b.gif
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Sidney also on there...He was in the U.S.....is separated
Says birth 1882 but has Cecil down as next of Kin, and he's a bricklayer...
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366140a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc005/366140b.gif
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Wow JJ, thanks so much for all of that, I had the Joseph Baker Attestation papers but am thrilled with you finding Sids. It is Sid and his brother Josiah that I am most interested in. Bit sad that the contact for his Son is via a Children's Aid Society, wonder why that is?? Looks like I'll be sending for another military record!! Can't believe how much you guys have helped me find out about my Canadian Rellies :)
Cheers
JK
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You may want to look into the 1910 census for U.S. for more information on Sidney. ( I thought that you had Josiah's papers...bit of a long read to catch up) :D J.J.
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I do have have Josiah's records JJ, sorry to confuse you ;). I shall send for Sidneys records now (hope his aren't 77 pages long!!). Did you notice it said he had been in the 'Imperial Yeomanry' on his attestation papers?? I'd never heard of that term but a quick scoot round the armed forces boards sorted that ;D. You learn something new every day on RC!!!!!! Is the 1910 US census online already then?? Sorry for being dumb :P
JK
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1790-1930 every decade...Put your request under Immiration to U.S. sub/board "U.S. lookup offers" and call it 1910/1920 census Sidney Grimshaw ( he may be back for the '20)... Of course within the reply birth details, etc. happy hunting...J.J.
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1920 US Census
Sidney Grimshaw, age 42,
roomer
born Canada
widow
Year of Immigration: 1910
If Naturalized what year: 1916
Occupation: Bricklayer
Industry: Steelt Meth (?)
Cecil Grimshaw, age 13
son
born Canada
Pupil
They are living with a Willhem family, in Massillon Ward 4, Stark, Ohio
Karen
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Thanks for that Karen,
Is a 'roomer' a lodger? Me thinks he may be lying bout the widow bit, could be wrong but looks like wifey and daughter are elsewhere! :-\ Unless they had both met untimely deaths by then. Would never have guessed this request would end up in USA!!! Doing very well with all you guys help :)
Cheers everyone
JK
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eyes too sore to go throught the whole thread, so was wondering if you saw the 1911 with perhaps Edith...by herself with an aunt ( Martha Moody? ) Wrong date but born 1905...so a possibility, especially with father in States with Cecil at the time. Perhaps mother is infirm in some way?
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test9.jsp?id=91634&highlight=26
Have tried to find the surname Oakwell, but ? J.J.
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Blimey, JJ 8)
I do have a Martha Moody in my Tree, she would actually be Edith's Great Aunt, but I had no idea that anyone from that family had gone across the pond, this just gets more and more interesting. Martha Moody (nee Pearce) was born in 1847 in Northamptonshire, does that fit and is anyone else in the household?
I'll just pick myself up off the floor :o
WOW
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Ooops sorry just realised you published the link :-[ Was the shock!!!
IT IS THEM!!!! The Mottart connection confirms it, I'm speechless :P
Thank you so much :-*
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Death Registration for:
Martha Moody
AGe: 73 years, 2 months and 14 days
Date of Death: November 24, 1918
Place of Birth: Leaster, England
Place of Death: Grand Valley, Ontario
Place of Burial: Grand Valley, Ontario
Occupation: Nurse
Widowed
Name of Father: Harry ??llcain (can't read it)
Mother: Elizabeth Good??? (can't read it)
Cause of death: Heart Disease
Reg. #012087
Karen
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Close Karen ;)
Fathers name was Henry Pearce and mother Elizabeth Goodwin, I knew she was a nurse and although I had her birth down as Stamford, Northamptonshire some of her other siblings are from Leicestershire. You and JJ have been fantastic with this topic, you can't believe how excited I am at all this.
Many thanks again
JK
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Death Registration for:
Stillborn Mottart
Male
December 23, 1924
Name of Father: Samuel Ernest Mottart
Place of birth: London, England
Name of Mother: Mary Elizabeth Boswell
Place of Birth: Erin, Ontario
Name of Informant: Ernest Mottart, Grand Valley, Ontario
Place of Burial: St. Alban's Cemetery, Grand Valley
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Wow Samual Mottart was in Canada too :o Am sure my Grandmother must have known some of this, if only we had asked the right questions ::). Still is fun doing it the hard way... with help of course ;D
JK
I am having such a fantastic night on RC, someone else did a parish register look up for me today and with help from the LDS's in one night I have managed to jump back another 100 years and am in a totally new county. :)
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Hi JK,
Your thread is fun, hope you don't mind us getting carried away with it.
So, Ellen Pearce married Emile Mottart in 1882 in Middlesex. Ellen and Martha are sisters?
Karen
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Marriage Registration for:
Henry Ebner Mottart
Age: 28
Residence when Married: Bowling Green
Place of Birth: London, England
Bachelor
Occupation: Farmer
Religion: Methodist
Name of Father: Emile B. Mottart
Name of Mother: Ellen Pierce
Mrs. E. Jane Thompson
Age: 38 years
Residence when Married: Bowling Green
Place of Birth: Garafraxa
Widow
Religion: P (must mean protestant ?)
Father: James Brown
Mother: Ann Greenway
Witnessess: Mrs. J.S. Stevenson, Laurel and Mrs. R. Hastello, Bowling Green
Date of Marriage: November 21, 1913
Registration No. 003408
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If you go to www.ontarioobits.com you will see they have Samuel Ernest Mottart's obituary. Just follow the instructions and they will forward the original obituary to you within a few days.
Karen
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Marriage Registration for:
George Boswell
Age: 27 years
Residence when Married: Orangeville
Place of Birth: London, England
Farmer
Bachelor
Religion: Church of England
Father: Francis George Boswell
Mother: Rose James (Boswell)
Catherine Jennette Ruth Mottart
Age: 21 years
Residence when married: Orangeville
Spinster
Church of England
Father: Emile Bernard Mottart
Mother: Ellen Pearce (Mottart)
Names of Witness: Walter Marshall David Mottart, RR 1, Walderman and Samuel Ernest Mottart, Orangeville
Place of Marriage: The Church of the Good Sheppard, Bowling Green
December 25, 1914
Reg. NO. 009461
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Yes Karen,
Ellen had 8 sisters and 1 brother! They are my favourite family and are now even more intriguing :) Now I wonder if any of the others are in Canada?
Mind you getting carried away? not at all, you carry on :)
JK
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If you go to www.canada411.ca there are still Boswell's living in Grand Valley, Ontario.
Grand Valley is not very big at all and it's small enough that everyone knows each other basically. It's referred to as "the valley" LOL
Karen
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Looks like, Walter, Samuel and Henry all served in WWI. Only Henry's are on-line, but Walter and Samuel's regimental numbers are there.
If you go to www.cwgc.org poor Henry did not survive the war and died August 28, 1918.
Karen
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Yahhh!!!!! I found the following marriage:
Sidney Pearce Grimshaw
Age: 22 years
Residence: Toronto
Place of Birth: England
Bachelor
Occupation: Bricklayer
Father: William Grimshaw
Mother: Elizabeth Pearce
Edith Oakwell
Age: 22 years
Residence: Toronto
Place of Birth: Ireland
Spinster
Father: Edward Oakwell
Mother: Isabel Lloyd
Reg. No. 001077
The year is 1905, the page with the witnessess on is missing as with the date and place.
Karen
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So, if you go to the 1901 England cenus, Edith Lily Isabella Oakwell is listed there as a cook in Espom, Surrey at Epsom College. Says she is born in Wales, not Ireland.
RG13; Piece: 584; Folio: 65; Page: 10
Also, in the 1901 England census is her family, father Edward and mother Isabel, living in Sheerness, Kent County with children
Alfred A, age 14
Bertha E age 23
Cedric D, age 8
Eric G, age 4
Gladys I, age 9
Sidney W, age 24
RG13; Piece: 815; Folio: 77; Page: 49
Karen
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Well done Karen, so they did marry in Canada!!!
I have been on phone relaying all this to my mother who just can't keep up!!! She's as we speak trying to find some of these web sites you've put me onto :o Think I've been talking so fast she wont have a clue now I've put the phone down, plus I have all the documents so bet she's lost!!! 8)
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I think I found that Oakwell family when I looked before but had no means of marrying them up so to speak ::)
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In the 1881 it says Edith was born in Kingstown, Ireland, so maybe she really was born threre?
LOL, I do that to my dad all the time, he can never keep up, I have to send him a chart so he knows who I'm talking about. I guess I talk like I had tea with them last week, but in reality they have been dead for 100 years. :)
Karen
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Sounds awful familiar Karen ;D I spout on and on about the Pearce girls like I knew them and theirs personally, not like my Great Great Grandmothers family at all :)
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Abner Mottart in the 1911...in the same neighbourhood as catherine et al...imm 1906
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test16.jsp?id=91637
Nice Roll, Karen, well done, all... JK, glad that we could help, always nice to find something! I had actually found that previously but no match...and then when the father was found without her by Karen...Still looking for the mother...
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Pretty sure this is an Ellen Mottart, as mother-in-law- (was there on with a daughter Constance? ( Constance imm 1905 and Ellen in 1909)
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test16.jsp?id=91636
Do you know how to go in to the images at the top of the screen for more info? J.J.
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There's a plaque for Henry...Wondering if he and the Abner are one and the same...it's in the neighbourhood found him in, on the 1911...http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/191/w191m002.htm
Ohhh....and next below are listed...Earnest & Marshall
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Did he have three names? John Henry A. Mottart, Dufferin Roll of Honour...ww1
http://www.rootsweb.com/~onduffer/ww1honor.html
Here's a W.M. Mottart...same list roll of service...
http://www.rootsweb.com/~onduffer/ww1rolls.html
http://www.ontarioobits.com/genealogy/cemetery/EastLCemeteries.htm
http://groups.msn.com/CanadaWorldWarOnetheFirstContingent/orange.msnw
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More recent obit for your files....Bessie (MOTTART) BELLINGER http://tinyurl.com/q6fxx under WORSELL
I now see that it was Walter Marshall David Mottart in WW1... ;D I get so confused !!! ::) :P
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So, we still don't know where Edith Oakwell/Grimshaw is do we?
Karen
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No and it's making me kooko ::) ...I went through surnames in the vicinity...that's why I am thinking, was she ill...maybe somewhere in a big city hospital? :-\ J.J.
Got the right people on the 1911...Hastilow and Helen Mottart are corrected below the census listing...never think to look there...Not enough icons telling me to :P ::) :-\
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http://www.ontarioobits.com/genealogy/cemetery/EastLCemeteries.htm
Here are some Mottart listing from above site...Henry A and Abner were 2 separate people....
Un-named at Forest Lawn
Henry A. Grand Valley Cenotaph
Abner Grand Valley Union
Eliza Jane "
Nelda M. "
Mary E. St Alban's Anglican
Samuel E. "
W. Marshall D. "
Catherine Jeanette "
Constance E. "
Bessie Mary Port Albert Christ Church Anglican
Robert Hastilow St Alban's Anglican
Constance E. "
Robert Hastilow also served WW1 and is on the Roll of service, above
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O.K. this is great...found a Hastilow looking for Mottart Belgian ancestors!
A descendant from Constance & Robert!
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BELGIUM-ROOTS/2001-06/0993920307
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So, here's a marriage registration
Robert Hastilow
Constance E. Mottart
Year: 1905
Jan/Feb/Mar
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 573
then a birth registration for:
Emile Bernard Hastilow
Date of Birth: December 18, 1906
Father: Robert Hastilow
Mother: Constance Elizabeth Mottart
County of Dufferin
Karen
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that's great JJ, when you go to www.canada411.ca there is only two Hastilow's, Harry and another in Grand Valley.
Karen
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Did you put up the link that Robert Hastilow served in WWI as well??
If not, he did
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc006/387041a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc006/387041b.gif
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Wow you girls have been busy again..... somehow I didn't get a notification of your replies this time >:(.
JJ the chappy looking for Mottart history is fab, I have emailed him so fingers crossed he will reply, he may have some of the answers, I don't have much info on the Belgium born Mottarts but have loads of Pearce stuff and I'm sure we could swap loads. How exciting is all of this :). Have spent most of this morning on the phone trying to bring both my Aunt and then Mother (again) up to speed, the Grimshaw line is their Mothers.
Cheers
JK
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There's a plaque for Henry...Wondering if he and the Abner are one and the same...it's in the neighbourhood found him in, on the 1911...http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/191/w191m002.htm
Ohhh....and next below are listed...Earnest & Marshall
Iv'e always had the Mottart children down as
Joseph Emile (known as little Jo, my Gran used to speak of him)
Constance
Abner Henry
Samuel Ernest
David Marshall Walter
and
Janette or Catharine Janet R
seems they jiggled the order of the names around as they liked ::)
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re: cemetery listings: Finally pieced together the Abners...Probably Henry use name Abner until he had son also called Abner with Eliza Jane...so changed it back to middle name for less confusion...so Nelda M. might be a daughter who died young?
Interesting that Catherine & Constance are down under their maiden names also...Nice for genealogists...but confusing J.J.
My mom's uncles all did the same thing...interchanged middle names ...it made the searching more fun :P :P :P
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Did we establish that George Boswell also served it WW!...? Maybe not because wife was down as "Jeanette Ruth" Haha...Catherine switched about also...J.J.
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc001/251926a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc001/251926b.gif
BOSWELL George William St Alban's Anglican ( if he is in same cemetery as wife)
( also a Kenneth in same, perhaps a son?)
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Back to the Grimshaws...you still could be right about the watson surname, as this is an extracted listing from the I.G.I. for a Mary Anne Watson to Henry and wife Ann ( which is interchangeable for Hannah) Christened on March 6, 1842 in Cassington, Oxford. ( out by a year, I guess to the documents, as birth would have then been in Dec. 1841 ...but it's possible)
... J.J.
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Breaking news..... Have had a reply from Harry Hastilow!!!! No new dates or info as yet but I have just sent him some information on the Pearce's and asked some questions so will report back when he contacts me again..... how exciting ;D
On another topic have either of you looked for marriages for Doris E (born 1900), Edith (born 1905) or Cecil (born 1906) Grimshaw, or are 1920-30 records not available online?
JK
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Excellent JK, do keep us informed please.
Married are public in Ontario up to 1923 with a new year added every year.
Karen
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Good show...Nice going, everyone! This was a great thread...
All the best with your searches, J.K.
J.J.
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Hi Everyone,
Have now had a couple of emails from Harry, He is Constance Mottart's grandson. His mother is still alive and she met and remembers some of my Grimshaws ;D Some of her information is a bit confused but she has photographs and Harry is going to get hold of them and email them on!!!! Harry himself remembers Cecil Grimshaw visiting when he was little! How fantastic is that.
It turns out that Constance and Robert Hastilow went on honeymoon to Canada in 1905 taking a young Nellie Grimshaw (I think she was about 17) with them and they never came back!!! Nellie Grimshaw is my Grt Grt Grandfather William's brother Alfred's daughter, this is the first time I have been able to associate this family in with the rest of the clan!!!! Plus I had no idea she went to Canada.
Thank you again for all your help, it is down to you guys that this is possible :)
I have even been invited to attend the Mottart 3 yearly family reunion next summer or if not then the next one!!
Cheers again everyone
JK
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Super news! We all had a ball with this one...( It's exciting to get lots of answers with clues to more! ) :) This will go under the completed files, but not to worry, it can be reactivated anytime and we will still all be notified...so let us know any time you find out more....the reunions sound wonderful!!! all the very best .... :D J.J.
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Wow, that is wonderful JK. Hope you are able to make the reunion, wouldn't that be fantastic if you went!!
Thanks again for keeping us informed.
Karen
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I realise this is an old string, I am looking for information on Henry Abner Mottart (mentioned within the string). I have recently visited the grave site in NE france, noticed pictures on Veterans Affairs Canada website. Can anyone guide me to where I might find more information and/or photos.
Thanks.
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Hi there, welcome to rootschat! This was my thread. I'm not sure if I have any photos of Henry Abner Mottart, I would need to look. My Grandmother knew & talked of him as a boy as she used to stay with his (& her) uncle & aunt the Monks who looked after him when his father died. Not sure if you've read the whole thread as it's super long and complicated but in brief Henrys mother Ellen & my grt grt Grandmother Eliza were sisters. I had amazing help from some very kind people here and managed to piece together the families movements and emigration to Canada. My introduction to Harry Hastilow took my research to new levels and he has many photos we had previously not seen. How do you fit into the story? If you need any further info on the family I'm happy to share.
Jane
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Thanks for timely response, my connection is that Henry Abner Mottart was my fathers grandfather, i.e. he was my grandmothers father. He was killed during WW1, I have had the oportunity to visit his gravesite last fall while touring northern France. On Veterans Affairs Canada website, there was a few pictures posted, I couldn't get anywhere with the ministry, so I am trying to search for other photos.
I wanted to create a group of pictures of Mr. Mottart for my father and some of his family of their grandfather. Hope this helps, any direction you could provide would be great! Thanks again for your response.
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Hi JK! Not sure if you're still on this thread, but I stumbled upon it while I was looking into some family history and couldn't resist filling you in! In your information, I believe that you'd identified Edith Grimshaw up until the 1911 census, at which time she was living with her great-aunt while her father and brother were in Ohio. The American census also has Sidney listed as a widower, which is untrue as far as I know it. There is a census out there somewhere (I can't say which, but, if I had to guess, it would be 1920 American census) that has both Ediths, mother and daughter, living together in Chicago. More than that, in our family, Edith Oakwell is fondly referred to as Meddie (Grandma Eddie), which proves she was not in fact dead in 1911. The family tale is that she tried her hand at Broadway and made it as a chorus member using the stage name Edith Aster. This could explain why she was absent in the 1911 census or listed under another name somewhere. I've never been able to find her during that time period, however. Edith Grimshaw married William Hume on June 27, 1933 in Cumberland, Maryland, not in Canada, which might explain why you had trouble locating them. They had three daughters, one of which is my grandmother. They lived in the Chicago area until both of their deaths (1987 for William and 2000 for Edith). Cecil died around 1970 I believe, but I know far less about that side of the family. I'm sorry I don't have any documents to back this up, only my family's word of mouth! There are undoubtedly documents out there if you wished to find them! I hope you receive this message! I would hate to have you wondering for eternity on what happened to our Edith!
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Crikey! This is what I love about the internet :-* after an 'amazing' original flurry of information and incredible help over 7 years ago now this thread continues to give! Thank you so much Kelso for this new information it's wonderful to find out more about Edith. Did you read right through all the pages of Grimshaws Ontario? I posted a beautiful photo of Edith & Cecil as young children which I'd always wondered about. It has been amazing to find out so much. I've found a couple of people from both sides of this complicated story to help fill in some gaps but relish any further information, it is astonishing that the Grimshaws that stayed here in the UK never knew what mayhem Sidney caused!