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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bates on Sunday 21 May 06 01:25 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information on Caius Templeman and Elizabeth (nee Hughes)
(I believe Caius and ELizabeth were married in Dec 1888 in Merthry Tydil although she was born in Malldraeth Anglesey)
They were living at 54 Penn St Merthry Tydil Glamorgan Wales before they came out to Australia in 1905
The children I know of are
Jame 1892?, Martha 1895?, Tryphena 1897, Caroline 1901 and Phyllis 1905.
Any help finding more Templemans in Merthry Tydil would be very much appreciated.
tanya
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Hi Tanya,
This could be them in 1901,
1901 RG13/5038 f.51 p.20 Aberdare, Glamorgan
238 Ca??? Rd
Cauis TEMPLEMAN Head 34 Coalminer Steward? Somerset Crewkerne
Lizzie " " Wife 31 Llangollen Denbigh
Mary J " " Daur 9 Glamorgan Tichains?
Martha " " Daur 7 " " " "
Tryphena " " Daur 3 " " Aberdare
Caoline " " Daur 1 " " " "
Transcribed as Cains TEMPLEMAN
Regards
Daisy
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Thanks Daisy
That does look like them.
I havent been able to find a Jane Templeman anywhere on freebmd that matches the girl in the record. Her name was written as Jane on the shipping record (SS Ophir) that came out to Australia. I also thought it was a little odd that the child's name wasn't Mary as Caius' mother's name was Mary so it stands to reason that the little girl is Mary Jane.
I also have differing info on the second daughter's name. It is either Martha Hughina (Lizzie's last name was Hughes) or Martha Ann (which is Caius' mother Mary's middle name)
I don't suppose I could as you to look for Caius' brother Charles and his parents Charles and Mary Ann on that 1901Census?
tanya :)
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Hello Tanya
Here is Caius and family in 1891
Rhys
Merthyr Tydfil
RG12 4435 F 31 P 40
57 WEBSTER STREET
Caius Templeman h m 28 Collier SOM Crewkerne
Lizzie Templeman w m 27 DEN Llangollen
Mary J Templeman d u 8 months GLAM Merthyr Tydfil
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Hi Tanya
This looks like the brother in 1901
RG13/5035/126/6
Charles Frederick TEMPLEMAN H M 30 - horse shoeing smith - Somerset Crewkerne
Florence W M 21 - Yorks Nottingley
Chas Frederick son 1 - Glam Aberdare
Address: 35 Whitcombe St, Aberdare
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Tanya,
Sorry, I should have put Martha H and Caroline M on the 1901 census. Martha A age 6 is living with other children and parents George and Margretta TEMPLEMAN in Merthyr Tydfil.
Is this Charles the brother of Caius?
1901 RG13/5035 f.126 p.6 Aberdare
39 Whitcombe? St
Chas TEMPLEMAN Head M 52 Farrier Blacks Own Account Somerset Crewkerne
Eliza Alice " " Wife M 53 Glos Cirencester
William Hinton " " Son S 26 Farrier Blacks Hants Southampton
Albert Edward " " Son S 21 Tinsmith " " " "
Thos James " " Son S 16 Clerk Glam Crombach?
There is a Charles Frederick TEMPLEMAN age 30, and family living at no.35, is the the son of the above?
Regards
Daisy
P.S Arranroots has just posted that one :)
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Sorry to poach Daisy: thought you had gone! :)
Place of birth for Thomas in 1901 is Cwmbach, I believe
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
No worries :),
I think the more eyes the better, especially to correct my poor reading of place names in Wales :)
I had gone, I've had a whole late nights sleep, and tried to do the gardening, since my last post here :)
but now it's pouring with rain, guess I'll just have to pass some more time here ;D
Daisy
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Hi Tanya,
If it is Charles TEMPLEMAN born abt 1821, and Mary Ann TEMPLEMAN born abt 1825 that you are looking for, I can't find them in 1891 or 1901, but I have found the following deaths,
TEMPLEMAN Mary Ann age 61 Jun Q 1886 v.11a p.315
TEMPLMAN Charles age 69 Mar Q 1888 v.11a p.382
Both in Merthyr Tidfil.
If it's not the above can you give some more details and I will have another look.
Regards
Daisy
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Thankyou so much daisy, arranroots and rhys!
according to the 1881 census
54 Penn St, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Charles Templeman H M male 60 Chinnock, Somerset
Mary Ann (nee Rogers) W M female 54 Chinnock, Somerset
Jane D U female 16 Chinnock, Somerset
Caius S U male 18 Chinnock, Somerset
Martha D U female 11 Chinnock, Somerset
I have also been told that Charles William Fredrick? was Caius' brother but he may have been a cousin? CWF married Elizabeth Alice Hinton.
I believe that Charles' parents were Charles and Sarah (nee Churchill)
they were married 24 Sept 1816 East Chinnock Somerset. He was buried 15 Oct 1844 Blessed Virgin Mary EC
I think they had children:
Caroline
Martha
Nancy
Louis Phillip
Adeline
Henry Pissey (what a strange name!) 1836
Henry Percy 1841
Fanny
George Marius
Edwin
I also think that this Charles had the parents Francis and Martha Templeman. Francis was buried 6 April 1826 aged 81 (1745) and Martha was buried 18 Jun 1827 aged 90 (1737)
Sorry to be ignorant but I thought Somerset was in England and yet it seems to have a very strong connection to Wales. Is there some history to this?
Tanya :)
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Hi Tanya
Sorry to be ignorant but I thought Somerset was in England and yet it seems to have a very strong connection to Wales. Is there some history to this?
You are right: many miners and allied trades moved from Somerset to Wales (and vice versa, depending on where the work was at the time). Farriers would have been needed in mining communities for all sorts of metal working, not just shoeing horses.
I would guess that Henry Pissey and Henry Percy above are the same man!
You have lost me with Charles's parents! ??? Obviously Martha & hubby won't show up on censuses, but have you traced Sarah & hubby?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thanks for the history lesson!
I havent looked for Charles and Sarah Templeman. I guess my geography of Wales hasnt been good as most of the places I have thought to look have been spread from one side of Wales to the other - and the whole Somerset in wales or england had me baffled.
I do believe that the family is from Chinnock though.
The only census records I can access are 1881 or most of the scottish records - so any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED
tanya
;)
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This should help then: also solves the Henry dilemma!!
1841 census HO107/946/3/15/25
Yeovil Rd, East Chinnock, Somerset
Charles TEMPLEMAN 60 - Army - Y
Sarah 40 Y
Caroline 18 Y
Martha 16 Y
Nancy Jane 13 Y
Louis Philip 10 Y
Adeline 7 Y
Henry Peircy Y
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Ooooooo!
Wow they do exist!
The thing about Henry is that there are 2 Henry Templemans buried in the Blessed Virgin Mary Cemetery in East Chinnock.
Henry Pissey 1836? buried 24 Oct 1838 aged 2
Henry Percy 1841? buried 26 March 1843
What does your Y mean - that yes they were alive/present?
and do you have any idea why Charles would have been in the Army? who was at war to have an army in 1841?
miles of smiles
tanya :D
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Glad to cheer somebody up this dreadful morning - the rain is just pouring down here!
In the 1841 census, folk were asked "Were you born in the county?" Y = Yes, N = No. (Not always reliable!)
This confirms the death of Charles snr
1851 census HO107/1929/226/30 & 31
Sarah TEMPLEMAN Head Wid 54 - nurse - Somerset East Chinnock
Martha dau U 26 - sailcloth weaver - ditto
Louis Philip son U 19 - ditto - ditto
Adeline dau 17 ditto - ditto - deaf and dumb
Henry son grand 7 - errand boy - ditto
Fanny granddau 3 - ditto
George do dau (!?) 6 mo - ditto
Address: Yeovil Rd, East Chinnock, Somerset
A ;)
I am not a military person - why not post on the Armed forces Board of Rootschat? They are very clever over there!
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We are in drought here in Brisbane so I would love to hear the rain on the roof. Perhaps you could redirect it our way!
well there are some VERY interesting things in that little snippet arent there!
interesting Sarah was a nurse
adeline - deaf and dumb - cant say i have heard of any deafness in the family (but that is interesting to observe)
any thoughts on who henry, fanny and george (of questionable gender) might belong to?
Thanks for all your help
tanya
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I am guessing that Charles is not the eldest child, based on the grandchildren - they are not his!!
Here he is in 1841
1841 census
HO107/946/5/8/9
Charles TEMPLEMAN 22 - b'smith - Y
In the household on James ROBINS 50, wife Martha 45, son George 18 in West Chinnock
(Wild speculation: wonder if this is an aunt? No relationships are stated in 1841)
Tell me if you want me to stop - this is turning into an instant family tree!!
A ;)
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Charles's little family in 1851
HO107/1928/482/42
Charles TEMPLEMAN H M 33 - blacksmith - Somerset East Chinnock
Mary Ann W M 25 - do West Chinnock
Charles son 2 - do Crewkerne
Treph.a dau 2 months - ditto
Address: East Street, Crewkerne, Somerset
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yes you have given my tree a good shake so far!!
I find these charleses a little confusing myself!
Charles 1781 (Caius's grandfather)
Charles 1821 (Caius's father)
Charles 1849 (Caius's brother)
I believe that Charles Templeman (most senior) and Sarah Churchill married 24 Sept 1816 East Chinnock.
So i guess it is a long time between 1816 and 1821 to conceive your first child!
I THINK Charles' (most senior) parents were Francis and Martha. Francis was born around 1745 according to the burial records....
Any sign of a son Francis or daughter Sarah?
Tanya :o
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Any sign of a son Francis or daughter Sarah?
Which generation would they be? Approx dates of birth would help. :)
Have you got Caius on the censuses?
A ;)
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Caius is on the 1881 Census with his parents Charles (1821) and Lizzie (Elizabeth Hughes) and siblings Jane and Martha. 54 Penn St Merthyr Tydfil.
Well if there are children before Charles (1821) would they follow a naming pattern like say Scottland?
If Charles ( most senior - 1781) has parents Francis and Martha, would it not stand to reason that he would name his children after them first?
They would have to be born in 1816, 1817, 1818, 1819 or 1820 before Charles was born in 1821.
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OK - with you now!
There is no suitable Frank/ Francis born Somerset on the English 1841 census. Neither is there a Martha.
The 1851 doesn't reveal any either.
Those born about this time are not from Chinnock or Crewkerne.
BUT - I found this:
1861 census RG9/1640/78/3
Robert RENDELL H M 29 - ag lab -
Martha W M 34 - glove sewer leather
Henry TEMPLEMAN son in law U 18 - ag lab
Fanny dau in law 12 - glove sewer leather
George son in law 10 - ag lab
Sarah mother in law Wid 63 - ag lab
Adeline sister in law U 24 - glove sewer leather - deaf & dumb from birth
All born East Chinnock, Somerset
Address: 7 West St, East Chinnock
Strongly suggests that the children were born to Martha, dau of Sarah, before she troubled the vicar!! The term "in law" in the case of the children meaning they were born before Martha's marriage to RENDELL - although they could still be his! In those days a subsequent marriage did not legitimise the children.
A ;)
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Yes I did know that Martha Templeman married Robert Rendell. I am trying to go through everything I can find that i have somewhere at the moment....
interesting fact that "son in law" "daughter in law" - ummm.
Some info on Caius's brother Charles!??!?!
1891 British Census
CHARLES WILLIAM FREDERICK TEMPLEMAN
Elizabeth (Eliza) Alice Templeman (nee Hinton)
Charles Frederick Templeman
William Hinton Templeman
George Henry Templeman
ALBERT EDWARD TEMPLEMAN
Thomas James Templeman
1881 British Census
As above with the exception of Thomas James Templeman
BUT I don't know where I got this info from
thanks
tanya ;D
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Daisy found you that 1891 census in answer # 5 above
;)
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I just found my copy of Charles Templeman and Mary Ann Rogers Wedding Certificate!
Why I didnt have this info written in my general blurb I just dont know!!!!!
They married 25 August 1845 by banns - Parish Church West Chinnock, Yeovil. Both of his parents signed and someone called Hannah Rogers signed for Mary Ann.
So if they were married in 1845 and had Charles in 1849 and Caius much later in 1862 there would have to be other siblings between them. Could one of the sisters be called Hannah or Sarah?
Tanya :o
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Well that was a nice surprise! :)
Hi Tanya
Why don't you have a quick look and see what censuses you have for which family?
I am going to suggest that you stop this thread now and start new ones for other look-ups.
I will happily help with those too, but this one is getting a bit complicated and long! :)
If you need, say 1891 for Somerset post that on the Somerset board & refer to this thread, so that you don;t need to keep typing up all the info (you can copy & paste the URL from this thread into the new one).
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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If anything I think you have immensely helped me sort my stuff - and I thankyou for that.
I also have an idea of where I need to start from here so I will do that another time when I have less other things I must do.
Thankyou so much for all your help
Cheers
(and good night)
tanya