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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Monday 22 May 06 18:44 BST (UK)
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I have hunted high and low for a marriage between Maria King b. 1835 London Middlesex and a husband named "Lucy" ( that's the surname !! ::) )
I have her in 1861 - 1871 and 1881 (King / Lucy ) with her parents Reubin and Eliza King and her children living in Stockport Cheshire - but no sign of any husband ! and I would appreciate any help !
Thanking you in advance !
Annie :)
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Who is given as father on certificates for the kids? Birth or marriage should have him. He can't hide for ever! Have you tried Lucie and other variants?
Andrea
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Hi Annie
Try West Derby, March qtr 1855
John Kemp Lucy 8b, 431 (
Maria Martha King 8b 451 the 3 & 5 are difficult to confirm
And it looks as if Maria remarried in 1885
Happy hunting
Chris
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Hi Andrea !!
I've sent for the son Edwin's birth certificate and I'm waiting for it .... ! but thought I'd see if fresh eyes would see something I can't !! ::) I tried Lucy - Luci - Lucci - Lucie .... but couldn't come up with anything !! also couldn't find Maria - Mary - Maria M King either ...... !!
I'm at a standstill !!
Annie :)
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Chris!! Beat me to it!!
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You girls are the BEST !!!!!
So smart too !!
Why didn't I ask sooner ??? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Thank you very much !!
Annie :)
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Chris - can I ask who she married in 1885 ?
Annie :)
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Hi Annie
The Lancashire BMD Website Shows the Following Marriage
1855 Marriage
John K Lucy
Maria M King
St Chrysostom Everton Liverpool
2095WD/1/1
Cheshire BMD Website
1884 Marriage
Maria M Lucy
Joseph Salmon
Cheadle St Mary Stockport
ST65/15/447
Hope this helps in some way
Regards
Iria
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She marries Joseph Salmon in March quarter 1884. The marriage is on FreeBMd and Cheshire BMD also has it, giving both the name King and Lucy :D
In 1891, Joseph is a Joiner age 54 born Stockport.
By 1901 she is a widow, living with her unmarried daughter Ada Maria Lucy.
There is a death for Martha Maria Salmon in September 1905 Stockport, age 66.
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Hi Iria !
Long time no speak !! ...... thank you very much for that !! I've just been looking and found 2 other Kemp Lucy's in West Derby - obviously family !!
Tati - Thanks a lot ! I'm so excited - I feel like I'm getting somewhere !! ;) ;)
What's really weird is that all those census - he wasn't around .... ! but now I have a proper name to go by - maybe I'll find him !!
Thanks again - you two ! - I really appreciate your help !!
Annie :) :)
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Well I've got "segs on me eyeballs" looking for this John Kemp Lucy !!
Ships - prisons - seamen's homes - alms houses .... can somebody tell me where else can I look ?
checked immigration ............. !! can't find him on any census .... I think maybe this is his family ??
George Kemp Lucy
Death Registration - 1845
Quarter - Jul-Aug-Sep
District - West Derby
County - Lancashire
Volume - 20
Page - 618
Annie ::)
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Wonder if this is a trail...
From the IGI:
AGNES KEMP LUCY
Christening 02 JAN 1837 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire:
Father ROBERT LUCY Mother: MARGARET
1841
HO107/518/5 18 4
Sephton, Lancashire
(Hundred: West Derby)
Litherland
Margret Thomas, 69? - no
Robert Lucy, 30, Turner, yes
Margaret, 20, yes
John, 8, yes
Agnes, 6, yes
Harriet, 4, yes
Caroline, 1, yes
1851
HO107/2190 93 40
Everton, Lancashire
87 Church Street
Robert Lucy, head, 44, Rose? Engine Turner, b. Lancashire Liverpool
Margaret, wife, 42, Mistress of a private school, b. do.
Agnes, dau, 16, House servant (acting as), b. do.
Hannah, dau, 14, scholar, b. do. (should read Harriet - I can see her christening)
Caroline, dau, 11, scholar, b. Litharland
William, son, 8, scholar, b. Crosby?
Jane, dau, 6, scholar, b. Liverpool
Ann, dau, 1, b. do.
There is a marriage for her in 1869.
She's the only Kemp Lucy I can actually trace. John could well be her brother, what do you think?
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Ooooer Tati !
Mistress of a private school !!!!!!! .......... ::) ::)
Well I really think when you find a name like "Kemp Lucy " it's GOT to be right - don't you think?
not what you'd call a "common" name ....... so I think this is a trail for sure !!
I just had a quickie look for a Margaret "Kemp" ......... !! ;) nothing yet but I'm pretty sure that we'll find that is her name - wouldn't you say ??
Thanks Girlfriend !
Annie :)
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Have already tried to find a Kemp/Lucy marriage but didn't find one!! ;D
And I still can't find John on any other census :P
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This has been a big question - the "Lucy" man was not on any census with the rest of the family - I REALLY thought he was a figment of Maria's imagination !! :) :) :)
But you guys found a marriage and that's amazing !!
Thanks again - one small step for man ........ and all that !! :D :D :D
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Mistress of a private school !!!!!!! .......... ::) ::)
Makes me think of yesterday's chuckle. Doing a look-up, I found a neighbourhood where all the men were dock labourers and all the women prostitutes. There was one young boy described as 'scholar at home' and the enumerator or whoever had added 3 big !!! next to it ;D
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Sportin' Houses are always the best !!
nudge nudge !! ;) ;)
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Hi Annie ;D
Still peering at Censii... but:
http://www.ozlists.com/allluceys/ukvitbal.html
John Kemp LUCY was christened 2 Jun 1833 St Jude West Derby, parents Robert LUCY and Margaret Ellen
Which confirms Tati's boy on the 1841. He is absent from his birth family in 1851, at age 18 or abouts - the right age to have joined the army. And didn't they join up for 21 years....? It will be interesting to see what his occupation is on son Edwin's birth.
From the same site above, I'm picking the George Kemp Lucy who died 1845 was a baby, son of same Robert and Margaret above.
If I had to guess - and it's just a guess - I'm picking he was in the army and handily absent from the UK at the 3 Census, but however was just as handily popping back in from time to time and making a baby before going off again.... and then dying while still in service some time between 1865 and 1871 (when Maria lists herself as a widow for the first time)......Or maybe he was a travelling salesman with an alias and another wife in , well anywhere really , say, Blackpool ;D ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Well see - last year we tried for quite a while on this board to find this man and I got so thoroughly confused - I threw up my hands and decided to start over -
thinking that with a clearer head and a bit more experience etc etc ...... but it's just as bad !!
the man could be anywhere - US - Blackpool who knows !! :P :P :P
but you Ambly have found the christening ( I don't think I had that - did I ?? ??? ) and at St Judes - the patron Saint of hopeless cases ......... maybe it's an omen !! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I've already got 2 others in the family - that jumped ship - changed their names - 2 families etc etc !! one more isn't going to make any difference !!
Annie :) :) :)
Thanks everybody for all your work - back burner time I think !!
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I found this ....... he went to Australia :P ............ Oh boy !!
John Kemp Lucy 19-Feb 1857 Argus Vic
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Aussie eh?
Hmm.
What about this likely looking lad LEAVING Australia (just in time to go home and make the next baby)?
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide023/PROVguide023.jsp
Outward Passengers to Interstate, UK, NZ and Foreign Ports 1852-1861
Mr J LUCY - age 26
Ship WELLESLEY
Depart Victoria DEC 1859
Destination LONDON
Cheers
AMBLY 8)
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What IS his game ??
The wife and the in-laws seem to go along with it - don't they ??!! :-\
He doesn't seem to be a convict .......... I don't know !! :P what else was going on at that time ??
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Oh ! look at this .......... GOLD DIGGINGS !! - here's a list of deserters - my John isn't on there - but I'll post it in case it helps somebody else !!
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~hdharris/deserters.htm
Annie :)
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Hi Annie
Yeah, Gold Diggers - I was thinking about that too......maybe he went to Aussie, collected a few nuggests in his trousers, went home, made a baby, went back, more nuggets....still think he could have been ships crew somehow, though.
I think Argus mention is a Newspaper in Victoria, not a ship.
I'm picking he was mentioned in an 1857 newspaper item - I'd email the webmaster of that site where you got the index item from, they may have more on the source details.
Here's another Aussie site:
http://www.oldnewscopy.com/newspapers.htm
If you search surname LUCY, there's one result with surname " John & Lucy" no forename - I think it's him on 1859 shipping list and the indexer got bewildered over the name LUCY.....
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Annie
This may be nothing - there's no "Kemp" bit but maybe worth keeping on file of ideas!
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/
Name Indexes - Convicts
John LUCY on Ship NEPTUNE
Departed 21 Feb 1850 Cape of Good Hope
arrived 05 Apr 1850
Conditional pardon on arrival
Name Indexes - Departures
John Lucy - Passenger Shamrock 19 Mar 1851
From Launceston TAS to Melbourne VIC
Had arrived in Colony on Ship: Neptune
Status Conditional Pardon
http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/convicts/conships_n.htm
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/neptune1853.htm
says: "The British Government made an attempt in 1849 to form a penal settlement at the Cape, but when the ship Neptune arrived at Simon's Bay, with 282 convicts aboard, the citizens declined to supply anything to persons having dealings with her. So strictly was this pledge observed that no food whatever was obtainable, either for the convicts or for the troops. . . In the end the colonists were victorious, and on 21 February 1850, the Neptune set sail for Tasmania."
Cheers
AMBLY
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woohoo ........... a convict !! :) :) :) I've been looking for a convict !! :) :) :)
He would have been about 17 wouldn't he ??
What's a conditional pardon ? - do you know ? - I should just Goggle !!
Annie :)
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OK! ....Conditional Pardon (CP)
A man or woman conditionally pardoned became technically free but could not leave the colony until the expiry of their original sentence imposed in Britain ::)
Now I suppose I should try and find court papers and see if that's really him ! ... thing is - if he was 17 - he wasn't married yet !!
Annie :)
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Gee Annie, get this ;D ;D ;D - talking of the Blackpool "theory" which was just a bit of fun.......
While looking for something totally unrelated, in 1881 Census, I came upon
John Kemp SMITH born abt 1833 in Hartwell Northamptonshire, a Carpenter,and his wife Cassandra.
So I looked up all references and see same man is on :
Census 1901, 1871, 1851.
Looked up Census 1851 , and he is an apprentice to a man named Thomas KING!!!!
Your Edwin's daddy John LUCY better not be a Carpenter, is all I can say! ;D ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Well I have a Thomas King who was Rueben King's Dad .......
and Rueben King was John Kemp Lucy's father - in - law !! ::) ::) ::)
John Kemp Lucy was born the same year as your John Kemp Smith
now what ? ............. I'm stuck !! - who knows if he was a carpenter ............. ::)
OK where was your guy living in 1851 ?
Annie :-\ :-\
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S'OK.....looked it up:
John Kemp SMITH was born 1833 Northamptonshire to Joseph SMITH & Ann KEMP, Christened Weslyan in Towcester.
In 1851 he's in the same place he was born/christened, apprenticed to Thomas KING whose wife is Hannah. JKS married Cassandra AYRES 1869 in Birmingham.
False alarm :P ;D ;D :D I was just funnin' ya! Just thought the SMITH name (yeah right, SMITH!), the age, the Kemp and the KING - the mystery.....another of life's funny wee parallels!
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Might still be worth hanging on to that - just in case !! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) you never know !!
Annie :)
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Annie
Just read this thread like wot you asked me to do :)
Did you go any further down Ambly's ozlist list ref?
http://www.ozlists.com/allluceys/ukvitbal.html
John Kemp LUCY was christened 2 Jun 1833 St Jude West Derby, parents Robert LUCY and Margaret Ellen
- I did and found:
William Henry LUCY, bpt/b 23 Apr 1843, Great Crosby Lancs, son of Robert Lucy and Margaret Ellen
This would definitely explain the resealing!
Gadget
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john kemp lucy bapt 2nd june 1833 west derby.parents robert and margaret ellen.
siblings include-
william henry lucy bapt 23rd april 1843 great crosby
george kemp lucy bapt 1st aug 1845 everton
ann lucy bapt 31st march 1850 everton
george john crysostom bapt 3rd oct 1852 everton
regards
alli
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robert lucy married margaret ellen kemp 2nd july 1831 st james liverpool lancashire
regards
alli
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Thank you Alli ... I appreciate your help !!
Annie :)
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Got the marriage cert Annie
He was a mariner ! and your offline :(
Gadget
Forgot to say - parents were watchmaker and reporter - obviously from whom you got your literary skills ;D ;D ;D
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Hi
I'm looking to connect Robert Lucy b. c1811 (and who marrried Magaret Ellen Kemp in 1831) back a bit further to a Dorothy(ea) Lucy b. 1778, who married a Lewis Bryant c 1810.
Some of the Bryant family came on to New Zealand and were always talking about their relative "Sir Henry Lucy" - Robert and Margaret's son
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