RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: lesleyhannah on Friday 26 May 06 13:23 BST (UK)
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Hi! My family came from Dumple Street (Chatwin's Yard), Scarborough. I'd love to get some information about the houses, or the area. Does anyone know of any photographs, either online, or in books etc, that would give me an idea of what the town was like in the 1850s or thereabouts?
Thanks for any help.
Lesley
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Hi Lesley,
Try this just for the time being-
http://www.history.scarborough.co.uk/
I only say this because there is something on our very own moderators site about Dumple Street, hoping Ticker will spot this and help out? ;)
Have you tried googling Scarborough and
Dumple Street? There are one or two things there
which may be of some use.
Best wishes,
Pels
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Its your lucky day!. My family also lived there from around the 1850s onwards to about 1920. I have a picture that ill post soon.
cheers
will
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This is Picture taken of the street in the late 1890s. The street was mainly for those working around the fleet of ships in scarborough. My great great great grandfather ands his sons were marine store dealers on this street although there was also a butchers and a dealer of rabbit skins apparently working here. The street was demolished in the ealry thirties but i dont really know why?
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Definitely my lucky day!
This is nothing like I imagined. The family moved to Hull - I have a picture of the street they lived in there - the houses were very tiny and looking onto a back alley. These houses look quite grand by comparison. I wonder if the fact their address says Chatwyn's Yard, Dumple St, means they lived in a back alley off the main street?
Yes, the family were involved with the marine industry - my great-grandfather was a ship's carpenter.
My mother (nearly 90 now, and still missing Yorkshire - which I've never seen) will love this picture. Thank you so much.
Lesley
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I can kind of imagine where this picture is as it looks towards the castle on the headland but i suppose we need a map to clarify the exact position of the street and maybe chatwyns yard.
Its quite possible I was thinking that our ancestors worked together or were even in competition with one another, Im sure they would have know of each other in such a close knit community.
happy to help with the picture so no worries
cheers
Will
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Hi All
I think the picture shows why Dumple Street was demolished. It is far too narrow for modern traffic.
Whitby has similar streets and the 'yards' are all footways/passageways leading off the street. All large items have to be carried up alley ways as there is usually no way of getting a vehicle to them.
Regards
Andy
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Hi Lesley
Sorry I've only just noticed your post.
My ancestors lived on Dumple Street too. In 1871 James and Sarah Tymon were at number 30 Dumple Street.
The street does still exist though it is now called Friargate and the buildings shown on Will's picture are gone.
See http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iq/
The name Dumple Street is thought to have derived from the "dimple" or dip in the middle of the street which carried one of the town's main drains.
On Will's picture you can just see at the extreme left a wall which is still there - it is part of the Scarborough Market Building. The next shop on the left where you can see the letters "apman" was Chapman's Grocers.
Incidentally I think the picture is a lot later than the 1890s but I might be wrong.
Lesley and Will - what were the names of your ancestors that lived on Dumple Street? It would be nice to see if all three of our ancestors families were there at the same time - possibly next door neighbours!
Best wishes
Ticker
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Pictured today (literally!).
You can see the same wall of the Market on the left.
PS - Yes the sky is always blue in Scarborough! ;D
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Stepping about 50 yards backwards from where the above picture was taken takes in Leading Post Street which becomes Friargate at the market. Leading Post Street (formerly Leaden Post Street) has retained its old buildings and looks quite similar to the old photo of Dumple Street.
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My family living in in dumple street were the Hopkins. they lived at 14 Dumple Street. Between the 1860's and 1920s. Starting with Henry Hopkins born in Scotland who moved into the street and started a business supplying the fleet of fishing boats in the nearby harbor. at least a couple of generations of the family lived there the last been my great granddad. Maybe they were opposite the Tymons? according to relatives most dealt with the fishing fleet but there was a butchers and dealer of Rabbit skins.
They must have known of one another!
cheers
Will
p.s apparently falling down the steps of that very market was the eventual cause of Henry's death.
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Wow - that's fascinating Will. As you say they must have known each other. James and Sarah Tymon were my ggg grandparents. James was a tailor - but that probably meant he was just a dealer in clothes - possibly second hand ones at that.
Best wishes
Ticker
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My mother (almost 90) sends her thanks for the early picture Will. Her branch of the family moved to Hull, where she was born, but they always went to Scarborough for holidays. Like me, she was surprised at how big the houses in Dumple St look compared with the one she lived in in Hull.
Ticker, my 3xgreat-grandfather Thomas Darling, a jet worker (??), married Jane Smith in 1838. Jane's address was given as Dumple St. Her father John Smith was a mariner. In the 1841 census Thomas and Jane Darling are living in Dumple St (but no number given). In 1851 Jane and her two sons were living in Chatwin's Yard, Dumple St. In 1871 Jane Dove (she'd remarried) was living in 3 Chatwins Yard.
I'm going to look up the websites you've given now. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I had bought a book about Scarborough then and now, which had lots of photos, but because I don't know the town I couldn't imagine where my family had lived. This has been a great help.
Lesley
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Here they all are from the 1871 census when Lesley, Wills and Tickers ancstors all lived in the same street! ;)
1871
RG10/4817
Scarborough
Folio 18 Page 29
3 Chatwins Yard, Dumple Street
Name Relation Condition Age Occupation Where Born
Jane Dove Head Unm 52 Charwoman Scarborough
Ann Matthew Lodger Unm 60 Pauper London
1871
RG10/4816
Scarborough
Scarborough
Folio 144 Page 38
8? Dumple Street
Name Relation Condition Age Occupation Where Born
Henry Hopkins Head Marr 43 Marine Store Dealer? Scotland
Ann Hopkins Wife Marr 48 Scarborough
Henry Hopkins Son 22 Jet Worker Scarborough
Eliza Hopkins Daughter 19 Scarborough
Alfred Hopkins Son 16 Jet Worker Scarborough
Francis Hopkins Son 6 Scarborough
1871
RG10/4817
Scarborough
Scarborough
Folio 16 Page 25
30 Dumple Street
Name Relation Condition Age Occupation Where Born
James Tymon Head Marr 44 Tailor Hull
Sarah Tymon Wife Marr 35 Domestic Serv Scarborough
Mary Tymon Daughter 16 Domestic Serv Scarborough
Harriott Tymon Daughter 12 Scarborough
Sarah Tymon Daughter 10 Scarborough
John Tymon Son 8 Scarborough
William Tymon Son 6 Scarborough
James Tymon Son 2 Scarborough
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That's amazing Ticker. Especially since they were all a similar age - they or their kids could have gone to the same school.
I wonder, do you know whether the houses in the Yards were smaller than the ones on Dumple Street, or were they similar? I ask because your relatives look more financially comfortable - a tailor or shopkeeper, against my charwoman. Jane married 3 times, and took in lodgers between husbands, so I get the feeling she was living on the breadline.
I'm trying to build up a picture in my mind of how the Darlings lived in Scarborough.
This site has been great!
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Hi Lesley
I don't know about the relative sizes of the houses - I'll see what I can find out. I would imagine they were similar but I don't know for sure.
As regards the financial standing of my ancestors - James was referred to as a Tailor in the censuses but I have seen him referred to as an Old Clothes Dealer in Directories so I don't think he was up to Saville Row standards! In fact he died in 1879 and Sarah was left to bring up all the children on her own. She actually took a stall in the Market building that is on the pictures above before eventually opening up a Greengrocers shop in the town.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Ive seen maps of London where the houses are marked by colour key to represent their average income. Cant remember the system but maybe theres one for Scarborough tucked away in the library.
It would seem the Hopkins family would be "financially stable" but there were many mouths to feed with Henry's 4 children and then their children [my great granadad and his 8 brothers and sisters at one point or another plus the other 3 siblings children] It must have extremely cramped conditions. Plus we cant be sure that the entire building was each family's and that they weren't assigned rooms.
Another link i was thinking of was that of schools. As Lesley mentioned the children were of about the same age. Does anyone know of the possible schools available to them at the time. Could this lead to school pictures? Ive often thought do they survive from the school they went to? Could they be on record?
This is getting interesting! I love it when it gets down to the grit of the history!
cheers
will
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Henry Hopkins first of the Hopkins to move into the street.
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Fantastic picture Will!
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I think a lot of us will envy you having such a brilliant photo of your ancestors.
I notice several of your ancestors were jet workers. Jane's first husband, my ggg-grandfather was a jet worker, and I've often wondered what it was. He died of consumption aged 27 - I don't know whether his work affected his lungs.
Lesley
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It seems the family performed many jobs! Francis my great great grandad [henrys son] was in the army at one point serving with the Yorks regt in the Boer war while Alfred was involved in the relief of Khartoum the Boer war India and even the first world war. i have a few pictures of each i could post actually. Do you have any pictures of those who lived on the street?
The jet may have some connection to his early death, I can imagine the dust would do alot of damage to those who worked the material.
will
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Francis Hopkins My great great grandad born 1865. Who was living in Dumple street on the 1871 census aged 6.
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Great picture Will. Taken on the South Bay at Scarborough I believe- a short walk from Dumple Street. ;)
Ticker
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I envy your photo because when my grandmother died her children threw out all her stuff. I only have one Scarborough photograph - a tiny sepia thing, showing an old lady dressed in black, holding a bible (I think). At the bottom it says 'Boxell & Co. Scarborough'. I have no idea which of my ancestors it is.
It must be great to see your great-great-grandfather.
When my grandmother was 12 she was sent to work as a servant for a relative in Scarborough who owned some sort of boarding house. One day I'd like to trace it, but I think I may have to wait for the next census to come out to search!!
Anyway, thanks Will, for all your pictures. I'm very grateful - wish we could see more images on the site.
Lesley
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What did a jet turner do?
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What did a jet turner do?
Hi Lesley
A Jet Turner would have made jewellery and ornaments etc. out of the famous Whitby Jet. See http://www.whitbyjet.co.uk/aboutjet.html
Best wishes
Ticker
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A fascinating site for someone like me - I didn't know anything at all about jet - and am quite surprised my g-g-g was involved in making jewellery - somehow I imagined it was some sort of heavy industrial work. Thanks again Ticker
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sorry to jump in so late,my family from my mother upwards all lived and were born in dumple street.we are direct descendants of the hopkins family who at one time ran a boat chandlers yard from the street.my aunt to this day still lives just off of longwestgate so has not moved very far
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YOu must be related to Will then? And probably my family knew yours a hundred or more years ago. I wonder if any of the Darling/Tindall/Dove descendants are still living in the area.
The photos were a great help in imagining what it must have been like in those days.
Lesley
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very likly related to wil all this has come tolight over the last few months or so
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Trying to contact Will Marshall I see you have the Frank family in your interests.My husband is a descendant of Robert Frank of Scarborough and his 2x gt grandfather Thomas Frank lived in Dumple Street at one census return he was a shoe repairer
Would be pleased to exchange family information with you if you are willing. My husbands line was Robert Frank Thomas Frank who married mary Brough , Thomas Brough Frank who married Jane Langdale , Christopher Charles Frank married Ethel cahill.Charles Cecil Frank married Mary Isabel Silversides Then my husband Charles Graham Frank
Best Wishes
Margaret Frank
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Hi there sorry for the slow reply I haven't been on roots chat for a loooong time so have just set up a new profile! Robert franks daughter margaret I beleive was married to Cornelius felix marlow born 1876 they in turn had a daughter elsie who was my grandads mother Id be very interested in shareing any info we have!!! I do have a picture of robert frank and his wife in their garden she appears to be knitting and hes got a big grin on his face haha! Im not living with my parents which is the home of all my pictures family tree etc so I will try and get that photo on my next trip there which should be pretty soon!
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Hi William .It would be great to share information on my husbands Frank family. If you would find it easier my email direct is *
My real name not surprising is Margaret Frank. My husband is Charles Graham Frank known as Graham.His dad was Charles Cecil F.gf Christopher Charles F ggf Thomas Brough F gt gt gf Thomas F and finally gt gt gt gf Robert Frank. :) Think i told you this before.
regards Margaret
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Will Marshall
The 1881 Census has Henry Hopkins, born Stirling, at No 7 Dumple Street with his wife Hannah and son Francis, aged 16.
On 29th December 1882 the Hull Packet newspaper carried a report of "A fatal affray at Scarborough, in a lodging house in Dumple Street kept by Henry Hopkins". The report describes a fight where "a ring was formed in the yard by the greater portion of the fifty or sixty persons who were lodging in the house".
regards
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Wow!! I wonder what happend there? Thanks for digging that one out for me! Ill have to follow that up an see who the victim an accused were!
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This is that picture of Robert frank and his wife!
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Brilliant Picture.She is listed as a knitter on 1911 census.He is a bootmaker. Funny how things pan out My husband became a shoe repairer many decades later in York.
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Hi, hope you're still using this site.
Robert Frank was my G.G.Grandfather, his daughter Margaret Ann married Cornelius Marlow and they were my nanas parents - amazing stuff - my mum was also a Margaret - runs in the family eh?
Hope to hear back from you
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat...William hasn't been online since February but when you have posted 3 times you can send him a personal message by clicking on the icon under his avatar.
Carol
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Hi Just read your post. You and my husband Graham must be some kind of distant cousins. I haven't been on here for ages so was a nice surprise to get your notification
Best wishes
Margaret Frank nee Ordish
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Hi Margaret,
I wonder what family history you may have on the Franks that is either similer, differs from or is new to that which I have got. My Robert was married to Jane (Whickham) and I've found at least 8 children of theirs but not a Thomas? Think maybe further generation or two back? Would you be willing to share any info/photos?
Best regards,
Reg
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Hi Reg
Thanks for posting photo .Of course I'd be willing to share information. Are you a member of Ancestry,co.uk by any chance? If so I could make you a guest on my tree [Ordish family tree] then you can see for yourself ,anything I have.
The Frank family is only a secondary research for me as I concentrate on my side of the family but over the years I have gathered all sorts of bits and pieces from my husbands Frank family.
Regards Margaret :)
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Hi again
Just had a quick look at my Frank tree
This is what I have
John Frank married Alice Fowler Scarborough
John Frank married Hannah Coates Scarborough
Thomas Frank married Mary Brough Scarborough
Thomas Brough Frank married Jane E Langdale Scarborough and York
Christopher Charles Frank married Ethel Cahill York
Charles Cecil Frank married Mary Isabel Silversides York
Charles Graham Frank married Margaret Ordish[that's me] York
We have two unmarried daughters
I believe Thomas Frank was brother of Robert Frank who married Jane Wickham. [I have a birth certificate I think somewhere]Their father was John Frank
regards Margaret
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Hi
The picture above is Mary Jane Sheader, taken in Cross Street Scarborough.
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Dumple street info attached for you
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another picture of dumple street
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I'm very new to family history and was interested in reading about Dumple St. I'm trying to trace my ggmother Ellen Small, who gave birth to my gmother Mary Ellen Small at Scarborough Workhouse on 14/05/1889. The only info given on the bcert is Ellen Small, spinster, charwoman of Scarborough, no father is named. During my search I got a mcert for Ellen Small 24, Hawker of 5 Chatwins Yard, Dumple, Scarboro. She married Samuel Robinson 35, Labourer of Sepulchre Street, Scarboro on the 19/10/1890 at St Peter's RC Church. I'm trying to find a connection and found the pictures and info wonderful. I looked on the 1881 census but there was no Ellen Small there. I've tried to find records from the workhouse but no luck, just working on it now!
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Thank you so much for posting all this info and pictures. I'm tracing my 2x great grandmother Fanny Jackson whose 2nd child Henry/Harry was born at 40 Dumple Street. She came here from Ousegate, York (Where Urban Outfitters is now) I think when her employer became bankcrupt. She had 2 illegitamate children in Scarborough and the article "A bad reputation..." was where my thinking had been going but I'll see what else I can find. She was in Leeds by 1870 at the latest when her daughter Jane Ralphs, my great grandmother, was baptised.
Thanks again for the information as it gives me more areas to explore.
Bel
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Will Marshall, what members of Stonehouse family are you searching for? From Scarborough?
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csp - could your g-grandmother moved to Scarborough, maybe for work? This happened in my family - my grandmother moved to Scarborough to get domestic work. I notice there is an Ellen Small born about 1865 in the 1881 census. She is living with the Errington family in Durham and shown as a stepdaughter. Maybe her mother married Thomas Errington? Ellen's place of birth is Wreckington, Durham. Worth considering. Good luck!
As my family lived in Chatwyn's yard in Dumple Street, it seems like there are quite a few of us whose ancestors probably were close neighbours!
Lesley
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As an aside, my mother ( from a long line of the Daniel family) used to use Dumple Street as an alternative to Carey Street when talking about the risk of losing all our money. "You'll have us in Dumple Street the way you spend" etc
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Hi - I joined this thread about ten years ago(!) I think when I was researching a branch of my mother's family that I knew nothing about. I was grateful for the photos of Dumple Street (and the added information about its reputation) but eventually turned to other branches of the tree. I came back to this thread when rootschat informed me there was a new post by csp. I bookmarked the thread and re-read it with interest. Especially I was surprised to find the reference to the Frank family. It seems like I didn't know at the time but one of my ancestors married into the Franks.
My g-grandparents, Charles & Ellen Darling had 8 children including my grandfather Thomas (1861-1952) and a daughter Elizabeth (b 1873). Elizabeth married Joseph Wickham /Frank/ on 15 Mar 1903. Joseph died 17 Sep 1946. I can provide information about Elizabeth's family, and would like to hear from any Franks who are still following this thread! Funny how these little bits of extra information crop up when you least expect it!
Lesley
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hello all, I've only just recently started researching my family tree and have discovered quite a lot of my ancestors (the Murdy's) moved to Scarborough and lived in or around Dumple Street from the 1850's to around 1900 and this thread has really helped imagine what life was like for them. I've spent hours trawling through old newspaper clippings as they appeared frequently through one reason or another (mostly the wrong reason!). My great grandfather (Franklin Hood) met his wife in Scarborough and i'm hoping to visit there this summer so seeing all those old pics will really help bring the trip to life, thank you
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Hi everyone. My family of Hopkins lived in Dumple Street - I was in contact with Will Marshall some time ago. Has anyone heard from him recently? Am still interested in anything or anyone with interests in the Hopkins family of Dumple Street.
Sharon Bishop
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Just found this interesting thread. In the 1881 census my ancestors James and Sarah Ann Thompson were living in 42 Dumple Street. This property would appear to have been near the top of the street.
My current puzzle is finding where James was living as a child. Based on census searches I think he was brought up by Elizabeth Gibbons (a nurse from London) in the same area. In 1841 he was on Murphy's Bank (near St Sepulchre St/Globe St). In 1851 he's living in Nelsons Place also near Globe Street. I've not been able to work out where these places are/were from old maps etc. (they could possibly relate to the same property).
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Welcome to RootsChat
You can see Nelson Place on this 1892 Town Plan https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/Map/504591/488776/13/100449
Stan