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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: niseone on Sunday 28 May 06 18:44 BST (UK)
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Vert family shown in 1881 at 35 Fitzroy Rd, London, MIddlesex...musical agents.
Head - widow Henrietta...sons, Narsiso, Honorate, Pedro, Fernando,,dau, Mannolla....
I am tracing a De Beriot Green, story goes they were Vert, and changed to Green...very musical.. have been given help on one line, but thought I'd like to explore this one too..
Thanks ;D
Denise
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I'm having a look, but additional info would be helpful.
How old were the kids, and where did they show as being born?
Pauline
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Probable in 1861.
RG9/66/ fol 45/ page 13 Marylebone ( All Souls )
Pauline
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Have found a Honorato Vert with wife Henrietta in Marylebone in 1861, but he is a marquetrie cutter ???
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All kids born London, Middlesex...all unmarried..Narsiso 36, Mannolla 26, Honorate 24, Pedro 22 Fernando 19......
Henrietta born Norfolk aged 62...all the boys shown as musical agents.
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They are still called Vert in 1901. Perhaps they used Green as an alias?
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Thanks girls...not sure my De Beriot Green is going to link with them, all very facinating stuff...
Can't find him in 1901, married to Annie, sons Ernest and Horace, can anyone help there please?
Denise :D
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I'll be glad to have a look - Would you have the 1891 details or reference?
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Thanks..Traherne Road, Lambeth RG12/404/172/11 indexed Dubuiot Green
that's been the prob..he's been Berrot, Berriot, De Bencot and I'm not sure but 1861 shows a son of Jabez Green as Rosina, which could be him.. ??? ???
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That's too bad - I was hoping to find him thanks to his family and he's not at home!! :-\
1901
RG13/422 46 22
Lambeth, London
88 Cowley Rd
Annie E Green, head, mar, 33, Living on own means, b. Brixton
Ernest, son, 13, b. do.
Horace, son, 11, b. do.
Edith A, dau, 8, b. do.
Gladys, dau, 4, b. do.
Ethel B, dau, 3, b. do.
Tanja :)
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I'm not sure but 1861 shows a son of Jabez Green as Rosina, which could be him.. ??? ???
Very probably. It's clearly Rosina on the image but 10 years later (though from musician Jabez has turned into a gas fitter) too many family members are alike for this not to be the same family and the 12 year old is now called Berrot.
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Found him!
RG13/3213 126 7
Derby St Peter, Derbyshire
Sitwell Street
De Beriot Green, boarder, mar, 45, b. London Lambeth (deafness not mentioned)
Alfred Boyd, boarder, 17, Chorister, b. Denb Ruthin
Leonard Bean, boarder, 22, Chorister, b. Pontavent Brittany France
in the household of Edward Burgess, 46, Iron Moulder, b. Greenwich and his family.
Tanja :)
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Yet again Tanya you have helped me enormously..thanks so much, how clever you are.. :)
So, looks as if he left his family, if wife Annie living off own means..life must have been hard, as a violinist he had to go where the work was I suppose..
It is his daughter Edith's line I'm following. She played double bass.
Jabez is an unusual name don't you think!
Can't seem to find when of if the change from Vert to Green took place..story goes they were originally from Italy.
I was initially told he was Hugo De Beriot Green..there is also mention of a Sphor De Beriot Green, the only reference found to this name is a marriage in 1884. So I think more certificates could be needed now..
Once again a big thank you for all your help.
Denise
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So, looks as if he left his family, if wife Annie living off own means..
I thought he might be touring, with the 2 Choristers lodging there as well.
I also thought the Spohr De Beriot Green was the man you are tracing: Wasn't Annie a Marshall?
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Not too sure about these but they are the only ones I can see
1841
St Mary, Surrey
HO107/1058/8 10 15
King Street
Jabez Green, 20, Lamp L, yes
Eliza, 20, no
James, 1 year, yes
Sorry for all the Greens out there :-X but I'm still puzzling why someone, and especially a family of musicians, would change Vert (or perhaps even Verdi if they were Italian) for Green... ???
Tanja :)
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Hi Denise,
I don't have any more info on the family for you, but I thought you might find this interesting, although perhaps you already know... Given that the family were musicians it likely explains where the name De Beriot came from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_B%C3%A9riot
There seems to be one other person in the BMD indexes with that exact name:
Birth: William De Beriot Chapman 1886 Oct-Nov-Dec Chorlton
Death: William De Beriot Chapman 1887 Jan-Feb-Mar Chorlton
And this guy too: (Birth) Arthur Beriot Gorgensen 1889 Apr-May-Jun Cardiff
Maybe their families were musicians too!
MJP
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Tanja you're a star :-*
Yes I believe Annie was a Marshall, some suggestion she was half french and a dancer, so this is their marriage then? Why wasn't Spohr shown as name in any other records I wonder?
Jabez 1841 I think must be right one..
Can't thank you enough..till next time!!
best regards
Denise
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Thanks for the info MJP, you are the second person to suggest that the name may have come from Charles Auguste de Beriot..
What facinating stuff this is..... :)
Thanks for your interest too...
Denise
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so this is their marriage then? Why wasn't Spohr shown as name in any other records I wonder?
I don't know for sure, but she is on the same page...
Have you found his birth, to see which name he was registered under?
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Gosh, I love this name!!
Births June 1858
Spohr De Beriot Rosinni (that's how the GRO spells it - I bet that's where the Rosina in 1861 comes from) Green
Lambeth 1d 283 (I think - not 100% sure about the middle '8')
Tanja :)
You've guessed it, Spohr was a musician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Spohr
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Tanja how do you do it..I had looked for birth for Hugo De Beriot Green, just De B Green..nothing!! How clever you are...
and of course Rossini ( Rosinni) the composer...Spohr's parents certainly had a mission in mind for him I think! 1851/61 census' show his brother as Viotti, seems also named after the musician..
Father Jabez must have had a dream..having gone from lamplighter to musician to gas fitter!!
I agree what a lovely name though. I will get on and order his birth and marriage certificates today...
I really can't thank you enough.. I do try but ... ::)
Denise
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Not clever at all - just checking different possibilities :P
Wasn't Viotti a girl? (Not too sure now).
I'm not 100% sure of the 1841 census. Anyway, I couldn't see any Jabez Vert.
Let us know when you get De Beriot's certs. We might be able to find a marriage for his parents.
Tanja :)
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Ok will do, thanks ;)....Viotti shown as 'son' in both..aged 11 in 1861..I'm sure that son Rosina has to be D B....
Denise
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I'm first seeing this thread over 12 years after the original post, but came across it yesterday whilst researching this family because I know Deberiot's grandson - he is the 3rd generation (at least) of string players in the Green family!
I have found Deberiot through all the censuses from 1861 to 1911, and then traced him right up to his death in 1935 - he appears in most of the London electoral registers for the 1920s with his wife Annie and son Horace.
Deberiots' parents, Jabez Green and Eliza Vernon, were married on 28 Nov 1836 at St Mary's, Lambeth.
Janice
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I haven't yet seached through the GRO indexes to find details of births/deaths of any babies who didn't survive to be recorded in a census, but those I have noted to date are:
James Jabez Green 1840–1842
Jabez James Green 1842–
Emma Eliza Green 1845–
Viotti Green 1849–
Eliza (aka Lilly) Green 1853–
Amy Rosina 1854 -1854
Deberiot Spohr Rossini Green (violinist, leader/conductor of London's Gaiety Orchestra) 1858–1935