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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: TAP1970 on Saturday 03 June 06 17:01 BST (UK)
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Can anyone shed any light on where the 7th Btt Oxford & Bucks Light Infantry served in WW2. I know they did go to Italy - in particular Salerno as that is where my grandfather was killed in action in Sept 1943 and believe was part of the "Operation Avalanche" but I do not know much more.
Thanks
Or maybe point me in the right direction - maybe the imperial war museum would be able to help?
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i think you might be better to try the museum
Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry Museum
Slade Park TA Barracks
Headington
Oxford
Oxfordshire
OX3 7JJ
Region: South
Tel: 01865 780128
but post your GF's name and we'll try to get some more detail
cheers
chris
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Hi Tap !!
Maybe this will help - for background ! :)
Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry - OBLI Battle Honours
The Oxfordshire Light Infantry (1881) was formed from two established regiments in 1881:
1st Battalion, redesignation of 43rd (Monmouthshire Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot
2nd Battalion, redesignation of 52nd (Oxfordshire Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot
The Oxfordshire Light Infantry was then redesignated the The Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry in 1908. It is the custom of the British Military to carry Battle Honours of the historical regiments forward into their new designations. The Green Jackets now carry the Honours listed below, as the OBLI was formed into their ranks in 1958.
The Second World War:
Defence of Escaut (retreat to Dunkirk)
Cassel (retreat to Dunkirk)
Ypres-Comines Canal (retreat to Dunkirk)
These were the 43rd and the 1st Buckinghamshire Battalion (TA - Territorial Army) that fought at Dunkirk, and were evacuated with heavy losses. The 4th Oxf & Bucks Battalion was not so lucky, being encircled and lost to the German forces.
Normandy Landing (52nd Battalion)
Pegasus Bridge (52nd Battalion)
Caen (52nd Battalion)
Esquay (43rd Battalion)
Lower Mass (43rd Battalion)
Ourthe (43rd Battalion)
Rhineland (43rd Battalion)
Reichswald (43rd Battalion)
Rhine (52nd Battalion)
Ibbenburen (43rd Battalion)
North-West Europe 1940 '44-45 (52nd Battalion)
Enfidaville (7th Battalion)
North Africa 1943 (7th Battalion)
Salerno (7th Battalion)
St. Lucia (7th Battalion)
Salerno Hills (7th Battalion)
Teano (43rd Battalion)
Monte Camino (7th Battalion)
Garigliano Crossing (7th Battalion)
Damiano (7th Battalion)
Anzio (7th Battalion)
Coriano (7th Battalion)
Gemmano Ridge (7th Battalion)
Italy 1943-45 (7th Battalion)
Arakan Beaches (6th Battalion)
Tamandu (6th Battalion)
Burma 1943-45 (6th Battalion)
Annie :) :)
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the ox and bucks has great history, probably remembered more for the d day assault on Pegasus bridge
the Salerno landings...my father was in it, he used to shake his head and say it was dreadful
i'll try and get some more info for you, what was your GF's name? we'd like to know
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Thanks Liverpool Annie and Harribobs.
Harribobs - my grandfather's name was Valentine Victor Morris but enlisted as Victor Valentine Morris.
He died in Sept 1943 (9th). The story was have was that he was killed by a "land mine" but whether that is true or not we will never know.
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Hello everyone
My grandad was Ox & Bucks 7th Batt Lt Inf 'D' Company.
And i have a stack of info on him, from Dunkirk to Anzio, (he was in the 1ST Bucks (TA) at Dunkirk), including lots of personal letters.
Of 30 awards to the Regiment, the 7th Battalion were granted 13.
all the best Adam
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I have done some research on the 7bn. ox and bucks and I can give you a summary.
The bn was formed in 1941 and was posted around folkstone. After training they were shipped to kirkuk via South africa and Bombay. They expected a german breakthrough but after the russians checked their advance the threat diminished. The regiment was moved by road to north Africa to join the 8th army. They went straight into battle at Enfideville and was commended for their fighting ability They become part of the US 5th army under Mark Clark and landed at salerno in September 1943. The fighting was fierce and a withdrawal was considered but after intense bombardment by the navy - a breakthrough was achieved. The battalion advanced towards Battipaglia. The heaviest fighting was on the southern flank bourne by the 36th div (texans). The regiment took many losses and the fallen are buried in a british war cemetary ouside Battipaglia on the road to town of Salerno.
and
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Hello Bangerjackson
Just out of interest, why have you researched the 7th battallion Ox & Bucks, have you got a connection?
I enjoyed your summary, its a shame it finished at Salerno.
Adam
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HI Adam,
Thanks for your comments I will get back to you I need to read up my notes. My dad - Sgt bob Jackson nicknamed bangerjackson posted to the 7bn bn for the duration 1941 to 1945 after recovering from wounds at Dunkirk while he was with the 1st bn ox bucks in France and Belgium.
regards banger.
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Hi
If you are interested in researching the Ox & Bucks Light Infantry, I'd suggest that you contact SOFO - www.sofo.org.uk who now hold all their archives.
Matt
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hi Adam
I have blown the dust off my files and I have enough material for a book so I will keep my findings brief . My contribution about the regiment was really directed to the folk who indicated they had lost family at the Salerno landings and to make known the location of the British military cemetary.
However I would be happy to offer a background to the fighting in Italy until the 7th was disbanded in 1945, but I will have to keep it within certain limits.
Meanwhile may I ask if you do have a personal interest and/or a general interest in the 7th
regards bob jackson
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Hello Bob
Sorry if I gave you the impression that I don't know anything about the 7th Battalion Ox & Bucks, when infact I know quite a bit, I was only making the comment I liked your brief summary of what they did.
Yes I do have a personal interest, its my granfather Fredrick Charles Ball who was a corporal in the 7th Battalion, I did mention it earlier in this thread.
I too have enough to fill a book, its surprising how it all builds up so quickly, I have also visited places they went to like Dunkirk, Hazebrouck & Anzio, did your father make it to Anzio that's where my granfathers war ended, he was captured in operation "Fischfang" (catch fish) and ended up in a POW camp in Moosburg (Stalag VII-A) for the last 18 months of the war.
What I am going to do as soon as I can work out how to do it, is post a 5-6 page document that is fantastic for outlining the 7th battalions WW2, it was made up for me by a retired lieutenant colonal after visiting the regiment for the first time at Slades Park, I am sure it might interest you even though you will know most of it (the same as yours did me).
One last thing, there were 2 battalions from the ox & Bucks in France with the BEF that sometimes get mixed up, my granfather was in the 1st Buckinghamshire Battalion that were a territorial army that fought at Hazebrouck, was your father with the other one.
All the best Adam
PS) Your only the second person I have bumped into on the net who has this connection
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Hi Adam,
Thanks for clarifying the situation I should have read the message board properly.
My dad an ex regular soldier called back to the colours on the outbreak of war and joined the 1st Bn also known as the 43rd . This was a regular battalion. The 1st Bucks were deployed nearby but took a different route in retreat. I think they were at Cassel with the Glosters to act as rearguard but were moved on to Hazebrouk . This is fortunate for your grandad since the Glosters were overrun and captured. I also think !st Bucks were involved in a rearguard action on a canal in Saint Omer before reaching the coast.
I am certain my dad was at Anzio since I have a group photo of WO and Sgts in Egypt on their
return from Anzio.(that is how I learned his nickname).
The Lt. Col. you knew from Slade is also friend of mine who me helped tremendously gathering info.
My sources are extracts from war diaries ,interviews with vets (one who knew my dad quite well),
magazines and videos that I took on a tour of Italy. I did not manage to get Anzio unfortunately but I did visit Salerno War Cementary. My dad - he hardly spoke about his experiences apart from a few remarks that gave me a some clues to follow.
Thats it for moment stay in contact
regards bob
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This is for anybody interested in the 7th Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire light infantry & the 2nd world war.
Adam.
(http://i.imgur.com/sz23S3R.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YpXfrjq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/V6WfCUC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DJpsXBD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SW0FB0p.jpg)
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Hi Adam,
A good and comprehensive account of the 7th Bn Ox and Bucks in Italy.
I could add a little to the fighting on Monte Comino . A veteran of the 6th Bn Grenadier Guards part of the 201st Guards Brigade gave me an account of his experience -the guards fought to the summit but found they were isolated and overseen by the enemy who were entrenched on even higher ground. I mention this because my Dad made reference to this on how the the 7th were given the task of assisting the Guards to withdraw - there were many casualties,
regards Banger
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Hello Bob
Thanks for the Monte Camino info.
What happened at Monte Camino I have tried to look into quite a bit and although I have got 3 big books on the second world war in Italy, Anzio, The Italian campaign & The day of Battle, I still find it hard to understand what the 7th Bn's role was, (the 3rd title I can thoroughly recommend).
I think its one of them battles its hard to understand unless I can see the terrain, I didn't understand fully what happened at Anzio till I went there.
I have been asked to go with some others who go every year, one of them goes because his uncle was in the 6th Bn Grenadier Guards as it happens, but I have a young family still and can't/don't want to go off just like that.
Do you know any good books for looking into Camino, I have been buying the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry War Chronicles by Gale & Polden when I see them, but I have only got volumes I (1939-1940)& Volume II (1940-1942) so far, let me know if you want anything looking up.
All the best Adam
PS) Bob did you get my answer to your private message to me, I was talking about DS and wanted to keep it private back, although I can post here, I am not sure how to do them type of posts, I will try again if you didn't
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Hi Adam
If you click on someone's name (on the left) you can see their profile - and it will tell you when they were last active on rootschat - which gives you an idea of whether they will have seen your messages or not.
Milly
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Hello milly
I know bob has been to this site because he only added to this thread yesterday, I answered his private message last week, but I can only find his original message not my answer, which was a quite long in depth message that took me a while, which is why I hoped I hadn't messed it up.
Thanks Adam
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Ah I see
If you want to see SENT PRIVATE MESSAGES....
you go to MY MESSAGES (in brown bar above this box).
Then on that page on the LEFT there is
My messages,
inbox and
SENT ITEMS.(click on sent items)
It should be in SENT ITEMS.
If it is not there then perhaps you did type and not send for some reason...
Milly
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And - if you want to see POSTS you have previously left on an open thread...
click on either your name (on left) or PROFILE (In brown bar above this box).
Then on left click SHOW POSTS and it will bring up all your previous posts...
Milly
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Hi Adam
Yes I got your private msge. - thank you.
Mt Comino part pf the Winter Line .The terrain is mountains and rivers The fighting was horrendous - likened to the worst of WW1. The area lies a few miles south of Monte Cassino which is much better known.
I also find the accounts confusing. I think the mistake we make is to think that the regiments stayed in neat individual units when in fact they may have got mixed up with different units in other parts of the front. This may explain why I saw a number of Ox and Bucks graves in the
cemetary at Monte Cassino, even though I did not know they were in action there.
Without a doubt the best source would have been the veterans themselves but sadly that is probably too late. The Regiment was also receiving reinforcements from various places. One interesting account I read was a officer who was responsible for joining the Regiment with a draft of deserters from N, Africa and according to him - instructions what to do if they faced the wrong way.
The truth is we can only scratch the surface of of what these men endured.
I will close now for the time being and I wish you and your family a very merry xmas from my wife and I.
regards banger
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Hello Banger
I really am confused now, I have alway thought the 56 division was involved in the "first battle of Monte Cassino" after crossing the Garagliano river in Jan 1944, but like you say sometimes they are split up and they not quite where people think they are, perhap someone else could enlighten us?
I hope you and your wife have a very nice Xmas as well, from me and my family, I have really enjoyed us sharing our thoughts over the past few weeks
All the best Adam
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hi Adam
Had a quick read of the War Chronicles - after crossing the Garigliano the Regiment were in action on Mt Damiano at point 411 and 411 near Mt Rotundo which they captured 29th Jan.On the 5th/6th Feb. the Regiment was relieved and on the 9th Feb. they were on 3 hour standby to embark for Anzio. rTherefore by my reckoning they were still a few miles SE of Cassino. You may be right that a unit from the 7th Bn may have been involved with 1st battle for Cassino but I see no record of this . If you can obtain a small scale ordinance map of central Italy it may help with the geography.
I close now.
regards banger
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Hi Everyone
Just thought I would add my dads involvement to the the thread on 7th ox & Bucks, he was at Enfidaville and Salerno and I'm sure he said he fought around the airfield there. I know he went on to Monti Camino which is where he was wounded and out of the war for about a year I think.
I remember him saying that a lot of his mates were lost at Camino and when he returned to the war he was put in the 2/6th Queens.
I would be interested if anyone has some photo's to compare with mine so we could put some names to some faces.
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Hello Phill
After spending 10ish years looking into my grandfathers war it was only last year that I bumped into bangerjackson on this forum.
He is the first person with a family connection to the 7th batt ox & bucks I have found and now there is 3 of us, so needless to say I'm very pleased to meet you.
They did a hell of a lot fighting in several theaters and grandad was at all the places you mentioned with you father (as well as being at "Dunkirk").
I don't want to bore you with the details that I have probaby already talked about in this thread with bangerjackson but needless to say if theres anything your trying to find out just ask (maybe you know more than me).
It was a nasty business the 7th batt attacking "Monte Camino" almost suicide, it decimated the battalion, your father must have been one of the unlucky ones (but lucky to be alive).
I have got a few documents from the attack, war diary's, chronicle's, secret papers etc if that's something you would like to see, as well as letters home from grandad.
Ive got dozens of letters has it happens from all the places they were fighting and it was these letters that started my interest in this after I was given them, they hadn't been looked at in over 60 years and I was hooked.
(http://i.imgur.com/Vo4hUKy.jpg?1)
I am very interesting in the pictures you said you have but I'm afraid have no pictures to show you in return, it the one thing I don't have apart from a wedding photo and one of them photos they all have done of him in his hat & uniform, I wonder if hes in any of them.
Do you know any more detail on your father, his company, platoon? I will like to know more about him.
I better go now, hopefully we will speak again.
Adam
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Hello Adam
Nice to see your taking great care of your grandfathers papers, i don't have as many as that but it makes good reading through this stuff especially when you have an interest in this era.
I'll look the photo's out if your interested but I think my father was in C company but I can't be sure.
I know he did go on about the fighting he took part in around Battipaglia in Italy, I would be interested if you have any information on that if you have it.
I'll P.M you my e-mail if you want to contact me, feel free to and I'll send you some photo's, I don't know if this site would appreciate me taking up their memory space but if any one would like copies just get in touch and I'll send them over, they're mainly of soldiers, names unknown unless anyone could identify their relatives, maybe the battalion museum have photo's of the regiment of that time, but I'm sure they had time or the inclination to do so.
Phill
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I have recently begun to research my fathers war history. He was Pte. Charles William Thomas 5389619 Ox and Bucks LI and I have presumed 7th Bn but I can't be sure because he was transferred to 5th Bn Essex Regt in Nov 43 who were part of the 8th Indian Div fighting on the other side of the Appenines around Sangro River. He may have joined the Essex from UK or North Africa for some reason. He was Killed in Jan 44 and is buried in Sangro River Cemetery. I have sent off for his service records to MOD and have requested an archive search at SOFO. Any information, hints or tips would be gratefully received.
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Hello althos
Its really good to hear your going to find out about your fathers WW2, your going to find out so much when you get his records back, when I sent off for them it took quite a while as everyone seems interested in family history.
Its sad he didn't come back, I can imagine it might have been something the family didn't talk about because of it.
As far as the Sangro River is concerned I am almost certain the 7th battalion Ox & bucks didn't go there but I will have a look the weekend.
Thanks Adam
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Thanks for your reply Adam. My father was transferred from the Ox and Bucks to the 5th Essex on the 20th Nov 43 (info from Essex regt museum). The Essex at this time were just south of the Sangro River. What I do not know is how and when my father got to Italy, whether he was involved in the Salerno landings or not, or perhaps a reinforcement from UK or North Africa. I am waiting for service records from MOD, An archive search at SOFO and war diaries from the National Archives. Once these are received I will post anything relevant to the OBLI....... Cheers Alan
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I have just received 5th Bn Essex Regt war diaries which state: 20 Nov 43 - 115 OR reinforcements arrive. (see my post above). 4 Dec 43 - HQ Coy made up to strength from Ox & Bucks LI draft which arrived in November.
This appears to be a re-organisation of the Bn after losses during the Sangro crossing. It is possible that a similar re-organisation took place in the 7th Ox & Bucks LI after Salerno landings resulting in the transfer of troops to other Regts. I would like hear any info on this from Bob, Adam or others who can help.
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All the 7 Ox and Bucks WW2 war diary refs listed below:
WO 166/4492INFANTRY: 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. 1940 July - 1941 Dec.
WO 166/8833 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1942 Jan.-July
WO 169/5046 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1942 Aug.- Dec.
WO 169/10278 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1943 Jan.- Dec.
WO 169/16307 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1944 Apr.- June
WO 170/1464 7 Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 1944 Jan.- Mar. July - 1945 Jan.
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Hello Alan
I think the Essex regiment and the Oxford & Bucks must have some kind of connection, with soldiers going both ways, looking at grandads records he was also in the Essex regiment before joining the 1st Buckingham battalion (TA) in France in the middle of April 1940.
(http://i.imgur.com/InjX4mA.jpg?1)
He was just in time to be chased halfway across France after it all kicked off for the BEF.
I'm quite pleased has it happens because I have just found a reference to him joining up with the BEF from the Essex regiment in the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry War Chronicle - Vol I 1939-1940.
Although hes not mentioned in person but with 50 others I will take that, its quite a nice mention as well which turned out true in his case.
(http://i.imgur.com/DPymmAr.jpg?7)
all the best Adam
Thanks for the info Andy are these diarys you have got?
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Hi Adam - Think I met you at TNA a few years ago? I'm the 1940 Dunkirk junkie ;)
No, I don't have any of the above files.
Cheers
Andy
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Hello Andy
Yeah thats me, good to see your still at it.
Cheers Adam
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Hello all,
Very pleased to have found this reference to the 7th Battalion, my Dad spent all his War with them throughout North Africa and Italy. I will post more details if anyone is interested.
Regards,
Bill.
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Hello Bill
I would be very interested, I have only come across a couple of 7th battalion men like your father and my grandfather.
I will look forward to hearing more about him.
all the best
adam
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Hello Adam, thanks for your interest.
My Dad was Private Thomas William Griffin.
My Dad volunteered 15-3-40, lnitially with the DCLI. Transferred to the 4th Oxf&Bucks 25-6-40, then transferred to 7th Oxf&Bucks 3-7-42 and posted overseas, disembarking Iraq 4-11-42.
He then fought with the 7th battalion until Dec.'44.
It was always difficult to get him to talk about his war, I wanted to write it all down, sometimes he would come out with a memory and tell me, maybe it was the time of year bringing it back. These are etched into my mind, l always hoped one day I could get everything on paper, but then he was gone.
Regards,
Bill.
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Did he go to France with 4 Ox and Bucks? If he did he would have been fighting at Cassel. There's a battlefield guide being published this year on the battle that I helped the author research.
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No, he joined the 4th at the end of June, '40, that is, those of them who made it back from Dunkirk.
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Hello Andy
Does that mean that Bills father would have joint up with the same battallion that was involved in the german atrocities in France may 1940.
I would like to see this guide if its possable, is it available.
Adam
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Adam
He joined up with the battalion in the UK after what was left of them evacuated from France. The battalion was part of 145 Brigade and fought with 2 Glosters at Cassel where most of the Brigade was captured after being surrounded and trying to breakout under the cover of darkness to Dunkirk.
You may be thinking of the Wormhoudt Massacre a few miles further north of Cassel on the Dunkirk road where the Warwicks, Cheshires, Worcs and some Artillery chaps were murdered?
Cheers
Andy
Ps the book comes out later this year. If you are on Facebook look up France and Flanders 1940. Its the name of my new Facebook page and I'll post on there when the book is available.
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Hello Bill
Your father was with my grandfather then for most of the war, they did a awful lot of fighting in that time and were involved in quite a few different battles and on more than one occasion lost so many men, it was almost completely destroyed.
Have you looked into the 7th batt Ox and bucks at this time, I don't want to bore you if you have, because I have, everything from visiting the regiments historians/researchers at Slades barracks and woodstock, to looking around a few of the battlefields in Italy.
I have 3 of the war chronicles books as well as a bit of info from the TNA, so if there was anything you wanted to know or if you wanted me to let you know key things they did, point you to a few websites etc, I would be happy to help.
I am interested to know how your father got away from the fighting in which my grandad got catured in, it was the 16th feb 1944, which was more or less the end of the 7th batt as a fighting force, do you know what company he was in?
all the best Adam
PS yes your right Andy, I was thinking of the other one up the road where they were murdered.
I will look forward to getting this book.
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Hello Adam, sorry for late reply, just found your post.
I don't know which company my Father was in. I now have his service records, I don't know about the 16 Feb, sorry.
My Dad's casualty card goes into detail about him being wounded in action, 20-9-43 (at Salerno)
then states form 104-81 to NOK 29-10-43.
Then there is an entry dated 16-3-44 stating Wounded in Action Italy, next line says 2 March, then 104-81 to NOK 16-3-44 but there are no hospital details like his Salerno wound, so i am not sure if he was wounded twice or not.
Regards,
Bill.
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On the 16th March the battalion moved from Potensa to Matera. No incidents of soldiers being injured are recorded.
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Hello Drew,
The date 16-3-44 isn't the date wounded in action, rather it is in the column relating to the date the entry was recorded on the casualty form. The only date given as to when wounded is 2nd March.
Regards,
Bill.
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Just a Grid Ref given as the Bn's location on this day 835302. Some chaps on WW2Talk.Com can convert WW2 Grids to a current location today via Google Maps/Earth, it's a bit beyond my pay grade I'm afraid.
Reports of heavy rain causing rivers to swell making advance difficult. Some reports of enemy shelling and mortar fire on forward company areas but in the main a quiet day.
Mentions of B Company moving, held up by enemy shell fire and remainder of RHQ with guides from 8 Royal Fusiliers.
PoW from German Paratroop Regiment captured the following day so you know who the battalion was fighting.
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Thanks Drew, I think it must have been a second wound, especially with the form notifying his next of kin being sent.
In another page of his records, under the heading "Wounded" it says "wounded in action Italy 20-9-43" then below that it has "in action Italy" and the date 2-3-44 , which ties in with his casualty card.
Another page has him away from the batt. for 4 days, the first line being a scrawl I can't read, then it has " 2FA & 3FA & X(Z) 2-3-44" Whatever that means, x(z) could be x(2), then the next line reads "Disch to 7th Bn.6-3-44"
Regards,
Bill.
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Unfortunately I don't have the 1943 war diary for this unit or I'd look that date up as well. There's a considerable amount of info in the battalions 1944 diary inc maps but I'm not allowed to post pictures of anything from the National Archives on here.
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Hello Bill
Here are the pages covering the 20th sept 43, from the War Chronicles, it looks like they where above Salerno somewhere.
adam
Moderator Comment. Images removed in accordance with Rootschat Copyright Policy. Please see here for more info.
www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php
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Hi
my father was in the 7th batt.Ox and Bucks. he served in N.Africa and Italy fighting at enfidaville .the battle for tunis. then to salerno naples.caserta volturno crossing where he was wounded then on to camino the first battle for cassino along the garilgliano line when they retreated of a 1000 men only 60 returned my father being one of them they went back to eqypt to refit. they then fought on the gothic line and coriano ridge then to gemmano next the rimini line he was injured for a second time on the 22nd september 1944 when he returned on the 29th sept ,there were not enough of the ox & bucks left to form a battalion and he was seconded into the queens royal reg.
he fought in some of the fiercest battles of italy he was wounded for a third time in march 1945 somewhere around the river senio and sent home I belong to to italy star assoc. and there met a grenadier guard who fought at camino they went up the mountain first and were almost wiped out then the ox & bucks went up he said it was worse than cassino because they had no where to hide it was bare rock and they were sitting targets plus it was very wet and bitterly cold many suffered frost bite. have not heard of any ox & bucks veterans still alive are there any out there?
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Hi wallace11
Welcome to Rootschat
Milly :)
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Hi Drew, thanks for info on ox & bucks diaries but I do have most of them ,I just wanted to chat to other ox & bucks families and pass on or get other info. It may be nice if anyone's father knew mine . I know he had a friend that lived in Hastings e.sx when I was a child in the late fifties /sixties as we used to visit him he had 2/3 girls I think his name was mick or Mack but that is all I can remember. also we use to visit his old reg.sergeant major at the tower of London. I believe he then ended up in the Chelsea pensioners home. My father was Sidney William Hussey. not to be confused with the Hussey that was an officer that was killed and is buried in salerno.
regards
Freda
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Freda,
Did you intend to post on this thread? :)
I've asked a moderator to move your post to the correct thread.
PS. Welcome to rootschat. :)
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Hi Wallace
Sadly, I don't believe there are many veterans of the 7th Bn. still alive. I am a volunteer with the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum in Woodstock (www.sofo.org.uk), and have been interviewing veterans for their archive for the last few years, and have not met anyone from the 7th yet.
It certainly sounds like your father had some interesting experiences though.
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Which battalion of the Ox and Bucks was part of the British 18th division that was sent to Singapore in early 1942?
Because I think my dad was in the same convoy as they were on, between Halifax Nova Scotia and Bombay one of the WS convoys
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Hi Drew, thanks for info on ox & bucks diaries but I do have most of them ,I just wanted to chat to other ox & bucks families and pass on or get other info. It may be nice if anyone's father knew mine . I know he had a friend that lived in Hastings e.sx when I was a child in the late fifties /sixties as we used to visit him he had 2/3 girls I think his name was mick or Mack but that is all I can remember. also we use to visit his old reg.sergeant major at the tower of London. I believe he then ended up in the Chelsea pensioners home. My father was Sidney William Hussey. not to be confused with the Hussey that was an officer that was killed and is buried in salerno.
regards
Freda
Do you know the names of any of the troop ships that he went overseas on, please?
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Hi Drew, thanks for info on ox & bucks diaries but I do have most of them ,I just wanted to chat to other ox & bucks families and pass on or get other info. It may be nice if anyone's father knew mine . I know he had a friend that lived in Hastings e.sx when I was a child in the late fifties /sixties as we used to visit him he had 2/3 girls I think his name was mick or Mack but that is all I can remember. also we use to visit his old reg.sergeant major at the tower of London. I believe he then ended up in the Chelsea pensioners home. My father was Sidney William Hussey. not to be confused with the Hussey that was an officer that was killed and is buried in salerno.
regards
Freda
Do you know the names of any of the troop ships that he went overseas on, please?
This request really should have it's own thread (or be moved to where Freda and Drew are discussing this subject) rather than being tacked on the end of Emilypos's thread.
I have requested that it be moved.
Topic split off and merged.
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Hello Wallace
My grandfather was one of the 60 as well.
I have the Oxford and bucks war chronicles if you want to know anything.
Hello Mathsmal
The last time I was in Woodstock it was before the museum opened and I ended up talking to Ingram Murray about Hazebrouck for most of my visit.
When I first started researching the regiment David Sterling helped me, is he well ?
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Hi
I would be really interested in anyone with accounts of the 7th Bn Ox and Bucks Light Infantry in Italy in 1944. I have been researching a soldier who died at the end of September 1944, Pte J Rymills - although I found he was fighting with the Queens as the 7th Bn had been put in 'suspended animation' a few days before and he and others drafted to the Queens.
I have copied the War Diary for the period from Kew and also a map of the Comino area which covered Gemmano etc.
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Hi
my father was in the 7th batt.Ox and Bucks. .......... they then fought on the gothic line and coriano ridge then to gemmano next the rimini line he was injured for a second time on the 22nd september 1944 when he returned on the 29th sept ,there were not enough of the ox & bucks left to form a battalion and he was seconded into the queens royal reg.
Recently I looked through the Queens battalion diary for the period when the 7th was broken up and found them remarkably detailed, with daily orders and even a list of those transferred over from the Ox and Bucks. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I found mention of the person I was researching in the first of the files I ordered and didn't have time to do the other two Battalions.
In the OBLI War Diary I a map for Coriano which I photographed. Happy to email a copy to others which may help for map refs for Gemmano etc if you PM me your email and/or address
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Hi Wallace
Sadly, I don't believe there are many veterans of the 7th Bn. still alive. I am a volunteer with the Soldiers of Oxfordshire Museum in Woodstock (www.sofo.org.uk), and have been interviewing veterans for their archive for the last few years, and have not met anyone from the 7th yet.
It certainly sounds like your father had some interesting experiences though.
Everyday is a school day and all that. Slightly off topic you don't have anything related to Sgt Ropey or Ropy DCM awarded in France 1940 at the museum do you ? I've found him mentioned in 4 of my books but his citation isn't on TNA Discovery site and it's listed as missing in my DCM Citations book.
Cheers
Andy
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Hello again Drew,
Thanks again for the information regarding the 2nd March 44 being "in the main a quiet day"
It gives some idea of what they experienced, as my research shows this quiet day saw 2 KIA and 10 casualties, (one of them my Dad)
Regards,
Bill.
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Hello again Drew,
Thanks again for the information regarding the 2nd March 44 being "in the main a quiet day"
It gives some idea of what they experienced, as my research shows this quiet day saw 2 KIA and 10 casualties, (one of them my Dad)
Regards,
Bill.
Just a Grid Ref given as the Bn's location on this day 835302. Some chaps on WW2Talk.Com can convert WW2 Grids to a current location today via Google Maps/Earth, it's a bit beyond my pay grade I'm afraid.
Reports of heavy rain causing rivers to swell making advance difficult. Some reports of enemy shelling and mortar fire on forward company areas but in the main a quiet day.
Mentions of B Company moving, held up by enemy shell fire and remainder of RHQ with guides from 8 Royal Fusiliers.
PoW from German Paratroop Regiment captured the following day so you know who the battalion was fighting.
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Recently I looked through the Queens battalion diary for the period when the 7th was broken up and found them remarkably detailed, with daily orders and even a list of those transferred over from the Ox and Bucks. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I found mention of the person I was researching in the first of the files I ordered and didn't have time to do the other two Battalions.
In the OBLI War Diary I a map for Coriano which I photographed. Happy to email a copy to others which may help for map refs for Gemmano etc if you PM me your email and/or address
Hi - I am searching for any records from 7Bn OBLI as to my great uncle Leonard Alfred George Limmer transferred to 1/8Bn Royal Fusiliers (City of London) on 10th Feb 1944 and was killed with 1/8Bn 8 days later
I would be extremely grateful if you had any info as Ive drawn a blank with the Fusilier records
Many thanks
Cliff
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Hi
A rather late reply to Drew and Adam -
Ingram Murray is not so involved with Museum anymore, and I am afraid I don't know David Stirling - sorry. Ingram certainly knows his stuff about Hazebrouk and Cassel, and has a lot of knowledge.
I checked with him about Robey, and he said - Sjt Robey won the DCM at Comines in May 1940. He stayed put with his platoon when everybody else pulled out. A counter-attack by the Sappers found them hanging out. Later he was RSM of the Bucks. His portrait decorates the front of the Chronicle.
I hope that helps a bit!
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Hi - I am searching for any records from 7Bn OBLI as to my great uncle Leonard Alfred George Limmer transferred to 1/8Bn Royal Fusiliers (City of London) on 10th Feb 1944 and was killed with 1/8Bn 8 days later. I would be extremely grateful if you had any info as Ive drawn a blank with the Fusilier records
Hi
I am afraid I didn't copy the war Diary for the 7th Bn that early in 1944 so you would have to get the War Diary from Kew. The 7th Bn War Diary was reasonably comprehensive but the one of the Queens I read was more so and included daily orders etc.
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Ok thanks Skoyen
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Cliffkinch - if you cannot get to Kew yourself there is a guy called Drew (I think) on WWII Talk site who can get them for you at a more reasonable rate than TNA charges for copying War Diaries.
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Hi Drew, thanks for info on ox & bucks diaries but I do have most of them ,I just wanted to chat to other ox & bucks families and pass on or get other info. It may be nice if anyone's father knew mine . I know he had a friend that lived in Hastings e.sx when I was a child in the late fifties /sixties as we used to visit him he had 2/3 girls I think his name was mick or Mack but that is all I can remember. also we use to visit his old reg.sergeant major at the tower of London. I believe he then ended up in the Chelsea pensioners home. My father was Sidney William Hussey. not to be confused with the Hussey that was an officer that was killed and is buried in salerno.
regards
Freda
Do you know the names of any of the troop ships that he went overseas on, please?
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Just found this site by accident. Interesting research here on the Oxs and Bucks. My Dad was in the Oxs and Bucks, not sure which unit, but he was at Monte Cassino also Anzio. He had previously fought in North Africa Eventually he ended up in the top of Italy next to Yugoslavia. Five years away from his family. As mentioned in other posts, the Oxs and Bucks were decimated at Monte Cassino. My Dad was transferred to the Queen's Own for Anzio. I live in Canada and I have been planning to go to England to look at my Dad's war records. From some of the comments here it looks like I can do that long distance. any assistance in that area would be helpful.
Best Geoff
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Hi Geoff
I got my G-Uncles details from Soldiers of Oxfordshire - http://www.sofo.org.uk/
You will need his service number to help them out, and there is a small cost for their time. Good bunch though and able to progress an investigation where I could not
Hope this helps
Cliff
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Thank you
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Hi I suggest you get his records from the Ministry of Defence first to get the basic outline of his career (ca. £30) then once you know which units he was in and when, get the War Diaries from Kew. Unless he was an officer it is unlikely to mention him by name but it will give detail of the operations he was involved in. If he was on the Ox and Bucks also try SOFO but they charge £50 per enquiry. if you have his army number you could also try FindMyPast to see if he was wounded. Good luck. PM me if you have further queries.
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Thank you, I am going to do that.
Geoff
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£50? What do you get for that?
If he was in Italy with the Ox and Bucks he'll have been with the 7th Battalion, they were the only battalion serving in the CMF during WW2.
Cheers
Andy
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'£50? What do you get for that'
That was what I was quoted. Presumably a full sweep of their records for one individual but not sure. Seemed a lot to me too......
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I concur. I can't even imagine what they have that's not in the service records or the National Archives that's worth paying £50 for.
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Looking on the positive side of it- if it is a way of keeping a 'County Regiment ' Museum open and thriving and one is not knowledgeable about how to research one's relative it could be £50 well spent, especially if they have some extra sources not available elsewhere.
Hey we have a TV advert which says "we pay you crap prices for your car if you are 'time poor' or can't be bothered" so maybe it is us who are out of touch with modern living?!
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Hi All
My Granddad Pte Joseph Smith service number 5389008
7th Ox & Bucks Light Infantry,
was posted to Italy and took part in the battle for Anzio. his battalion was surrounded by the German Infantry along with Fallschirmjager. His battalion was totally cut of from reinforcements and heavily bombarded from mortar and machine gun fire. the battalion held their ground to the last man
out of 1000 men it is said that only 60 odd men survived. my Grandfather was wounded and all positions were later overrun and remaining men were taken prisoner,
He was taken to Memmingen POW Camp / Hospital and treated for his wounds.
later taken to Stalag 9c Bad Sulza, Mühlhausen, Hesse.
he ended up working in the Hospital as a porter looking after the wounded. either that or he could have ended up working in the potassium mines.
and there he would remain until the the camp was liberated by the Americans in 1945
would be very keen to learn more about his travel to Italy and to the camps
thanks Joe
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I realise this is probably an old thread but remembrance day set me thinking again about my uncle who served in this battalion and died on the 20th January 1944 at Monte Cassino. I couldn't understand why this battle wasn't under the 7th's records but I see that someone mentioned that they may have been split up.
Just wondering if anyone has any details. My uncle was Michael Waite from Liverpool (distant family connection to Oxford). I have a couple of photos as well if anyone interested.
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Hi Familysearch1944
I would be very grateful to see the photos you may have
regards joe
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Hi All
My Granddad Pte Joseph Smith service number 5389008
7th Ox & Bucks Light Infantry,
was posted to Italy and took part in the battle for Anzio. his battalion was surrounded by the German Infantry along with Fallschirmjager. His battalion was totally cut of from reinforcements and heavily bombarded from mortar and machine gun fire. the battalion held their ground to the last man
out of 1000 men it is said that only 60 odd men survived. my Grandfather was wounded and all positions were later overrun and remaining men were taken prisoner,
He was taken to Memmingen POW Camp / Hospital and treated for his wounds.
later taken to Stalag 9c Bad Sulza, Mühlhausen, Hesse.
he ended up working in the Hospital as a porter looking after the wounded. either that or he could have ended up working in the potassium mines.
and there he would remain until the the camp was liberated by the Americans in 1945
would be very keen to learn more about his travel to Italy and to the camps
thanks Joe
7th battalion was in 167 London Infantry Brigade, 56th Division. The Brigade had been in Iraq Nov42 to Apr43. Italy Sept43 to Mch44. N.Africa April to July 44. Italy Jul to Sep44. Cadre to Dec44.
Evidently heavy losses at Anzio. What saved us was the guns of the Royal Navy and US Navy. It wasn't just the 7/Oxf and Bucks LI, In the late 70's my boss had been at Anzio as a junior officer in the RM Commandos together with US Rangers. They were mainly equipped with sten guns with a few Brens. They had to be put in the line. Opposition was the Hermann Goering Division. Massive artillery, machine gun and mortar fire. Then, avenues opened up allowing infantry to advance. The Commando's took losses, but as the Germans closed the massed auto fire of sten guns and the Brens stopped them. Not before realising that they were being machine gunned from behind. The Germans had been developing infiltration tactics for some time. His RM Commando, 44, 45, 46, I can't remember, suffered 50% casualties, they were withdrawn to Egypt for the rest of the War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/167th_(1st_London)_Brigade#Order_of_battle_2.
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Having problems posting the photos, 3rd attempt
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2nd photo. I also have an official one of the whole unit/battalion (female here so don't know the term but quite a big group)but will need to dig that one out.
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I have an original 'War Chronicle 1939-40' vol 1 for the Ox and Bucks Light Infantry.
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Hello just read all the comments on this page, it turns out my grandfather was in this regiment in ww2 and died in salerno 15th Sept 1943, have you any advice how I can find out more details regarding my grandfather. Thanks
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Hi, My Grandad served in the 7th battalion Ox & Bucks. I have his war records and letters that he wrote home which have his regiment etc on. I’d love to be able to track exactly where he went. I know he was in Iraq, was in hospital in Egypt and went on through Italy eventually being captured at the river Po. Any ideas how I could definitively track him and find out what he was involved in??
Regards
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Photo of two original 7th Battalion men, (with a street vendor), good friends of my Dad.
Picture taken in Cairo 1944.
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Some loose ends.
Robe111 - to track your grandfather's service you need his service record:https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records (and see below)
Oli19 - you will need ideally to see the war diary at Kew (or have it copied) but this may help as a starter:
http://www.lightbobs.com/7th-bn-oxf--bucks-li-1940-1945.html These are extracts from the regimental Chronicle. There are random volumes to be found on Amazon but I haven't been able to isolate 7 Battalion.
The museum - https://www.sofo.org.uk/ - may be able (when open) to advise on bibliography (they don't have individual soldiers' records) but note earlier posts on the subject.
MaxD
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Hi - this reply isn't ridiculously late nor unhelpful.
My Dad was in the 7th and likewise fought in North Africa, then Italy. He was captured as part of the Salerno Battle and spent 2 years in POW camp. In fact he completed his law exams while in there, as he was only 22.
If anybody has any photos letters etc I'd be more than happy to see them.
Here are a couple of mine. There are a couple of my dad, but also one of his company. The chronicle mentions him as putting his foot through the radio, just as they surrendered to the Germans.
He also sent a very detailed letter regarding the battle of Enfidaville, which I'll share once I work out how to post, rather than just reply ! :-)
all best
James.
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Dear All-
I have just come across this thread. I write books about military history & in researching my last I followed an officer of 7OBLI (Michael EDMUNDS) from Salerno to his death at Ceriano in the battalion's final battle. It struck me that this unit had one of the finest fighting records of any in the army in WW2, yet there has never been a unit history. I am considering making it my next project, & it would be far the richer for personal accounts, letters, diaries, photographs, etc. Families would retain copyright of any material used. If you would be willing or able to share anything with me, I would be most grateful.
For me, the writing & research are all about making individuals' stories known to a wider audience. I don't make a penny out of anything I publish.
Thank you.
Shaun
Author of:
Wykehamists at Gallipoli (privately published, 2011)
The Uncrowned King of Crete (privately published, 2014)
Captains Courageous (Amazon, 2014)
A Noble Company (Sunnyside, April 2024)
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Hi Shaun
As it happens, your not the first person I have heard say you couldn't understand why there is not more information, on what the 7th Battalion Ox and Bucks did in WW2.
When I visited the Cowley barracks nearly 20 years ago, David Stanley (who was considered an expert on the 7th Battalion) said exactly the same thing.
I noticed back in the early posts of this thread, I have contributed and would like to help with anything I have, if you was interested.
I am so pleased you are considering writing about it.
Thanks Adam
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My Grandad was with the 7th Battalion of the Ox&Bucks for a fair bit of his time during WW2. I have his war records and over 100 letters and postcards but it’s still difficult to work out what happened to him. He disembarked at Iraq on 4.11.42 but must have been injured at some point in September 1943 as he was in 14 CCS and No. 3 FDS and spent several months in hospital after that. He then returned to the 7th Battalion and ended up getting captured in Northern Italy and taken to Stalag VIIA. I think numbers became depleted before he was captured as he was moved into the DCLI just prior to this.
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Hi Shaun
As it happens, your not the first person I have heard say you couldn't understand why there is not more information, on what the 7th Battalion Ox and Bucks did in WW2.
When I visited the Cowley barracks nearly 20 years ago, David Stanley (who was considered an expert on the 7th Battalion) said exactly the same thing.
I noticed back in the early posts of this thread, I have contributed and would like to help with anything I have, if you was interested.
I am so pleased you are considering writing about it.
Thanks Adam
Adam- I was very worried that there would be no one left watching this thread! Would it be possible to ask to see copies of what you have (pictures of the originals, or transcripts)? I’d be so very grateful. Yours, Shaun
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My Grandad was with the 7th Battalion of the Ox&Bucks for a fair bit of his time during WW2. I have his war records and over 100 letters and postcards but it’s still difficult to work out what happened to him. He disembarked at Iraq on 4.11.42 but must have been injured at some point in September 1943 as he was in 14 CCS and No. 3 FDS and spent several months in hospital after that. He then returned to the 7th Battalion and ended up getting captured in Northern Italy and taken to Stalag VIIA. I think numbers became depleted before he was captured as he was moved into the DCLI just prior to this.
Oli- Thank you for your post; it may be that your Grandad was moved to the DCLI when 7th Ox & Bucks were disbanded- I’d have so see the dates. I would be very happy to help you sort the information you have into a coherent narrative if uou like. Would it be possible to see copies of what you have (pictures of the originals, or transcripts)? I’d be hugely grateful. Yours, Shaun
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Hi Shaun
I use google alerts that made me find your post, got it set on the regiment.
I have got a folder in Dropbox I can find, it's got lots in it, a bit muddled up but it will give you an idea of what I have.
I will try to private message it to you, with an outline of its content.
Adam
Ps is there anyway we can look at your books you have wrote.
Not the ones you are selling
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Adam- no problem to see my stuff; I can Dropbox it. Presumably there’s a system on here for private messages so I can send you a link?
Shaun
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I have sent a pm Shaun
Let me know if the dropbox link doesnt work.
Adam