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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Arranroots on Monday 12 June 06 08:57 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone assist me in locating Charlestown, Monmouthshire?
My great grandmother Esther BIRD (yes, her again!) was born in Charlestown, Bedwellty (sub district Rock, Bedwellty) in 1861. Also in 1861 her family are enumerated in Charlestown.
I am finding this very confusing as Rock is nowhere near where I believe Charlestown to have been!!
The enumerators walk for District 2 of Rock Bedwellty includes the hamlet of Islawrcoed - is this Argoed?
Something I read recently suggested that Charlestown was once the name used for Bargoed. Can anyone confirm this or otherwise enlighten me, please?
Many thanks, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
does this help ??
from
LOCAL DISTRICTS & HAMLETS WITHIN PARISHES,
AND ALTERNATIVE ENGLISH/WELSH VARIANT NAMES (Gwent FHS)
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsgfhs/Places.htm#B2
Argoed part of Bedwellty (Rock Bedwellty S-D.)
:
Bargoed (minor part) part of Bedwellty (Rock Bedwellty S-D.)
:
Charlestown part of Bedwellty (Rock Bedwellty S-D.)
Bob
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No!! :-\ ;D
Sorry Bob - I have seen that, but it doesn't clarify matters much!
It seems that the names used in 1861, even those that are in Welsh, have been altered and they do not feature on a modern map. Old-maps is offline at the moment, but the search didn't produce anything helpful either.
When I was in the area last week we found Rock (north of Blackwood) and passed through Bedwellty going east. Bargoed/ Argoed and Aberbargoed are further east and dangerously close to Glamorgan!!
Thanks for looking though
Still somewhat puzzled
Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arran
Charlestown was just to the north of Blackwood.
If you do a gazetter search for Blackwood on the
Old- maps ( now back on line) web site you cannot miss it.
Rhys
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Thanks Rhys :D
So when I crossed the new Sirhowy bridge just north of Blackwood I was nearly there?
I went up the hill toward Cefn Fforest, but also took a quick visit up to Rock and the junction for Bedwellty. How annoying to be so near & not realise it!!
I suppose the area is just part of Blackwood now, or did the name get changed to something else?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arran
When you went up the hill off the new bridge to Cefn Forest
i think you travelled along Sunnybank, which is on the old maps site. Not absolutely sure ,but i believe St Margarets church is on the main road going into Blackwood just south of the bridge.
To answer your earlier query re Ishlawrcoed.
Although described as a hamlet, it was in fact a large district which covered the whole of the parish of Rock Bedwellty. ie Blackwood ,Argoed, Charlestown etc in the Tredegar (Sirhowy) valley. Also all areas over the mountain westwards to the Parish and County boundary which was the River Rhymney.ie Cefn forest, Pengam ,Aberbargoed and that small part of Bargoed which was situated to the east of the river Rhymney.
Rhys
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Oh now I know - but I don't!! ;D
I am trying to pin the family down to an address, but will have to abandon the quest.
Many thanks for explaining that - I will just have to say that Esther was born on a mountain side (or a valley)...
;D ;D
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Arranroots, what is the address you have? I lived in the area for 30 years and Dad for 70. We have several books about the area "in the olden days." Perhaps we could help. Funnily enough we came home from that area last week!
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Hi Ozlady
Thanks for your reply: I appreciate it! My mum was born in the area, so she has some of the type of books you describe. You will have to let me know what names (by PM) in case we are related! ::) ;D
The trouble with Esther is that I don't have a street address: just "Charlestown, Bedwellty" on both birth cert and 1861 census. The parents married elsewhere & by 1871 the family had moved on.
I hope you enjoyed visiting the area? I was able to find other houses that my ancestors had lived in & will return to look for the others, but as I say, Esther's birthplace will remain a mystery! When I win the lottery I will order certs for her siblings & at least that will tie them down a bit!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arran
The Bird family in 1861 are living next to the Tredegar Arms.
In 1871 the Tredegar Arms would appear to be in Red Lion
Rank. RG10 5330 F 21 P 18
Rhys
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Rhys, you are a clever old stick!! :)
Can't get the reference to work though - aaahhh!!
I looked up the Tredegar Arms and found a couple in Worrall's for 1875:
Evan LEWIS @ Hill Row, Rhymney
Louisa JAMES @ New Tredegar
Don't know which (if either) is Red Lion Rank - where is that please?
Just off to check out the landlords in 1871.
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OK I have found the Tredegar Arms in 1871 - Red Lion Rank as you say, in the hamlet of Islaw'rcoed. RG10/5330/26/18 Landlord Edmund POWELL.
Am I going around in circles here? Old maps is down again, so I will have to be patient.
Where IS Islaw'rcoed??
A ;)
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Hi
Sorry for the error in the reference.
I have yet to find anyone who knows the original location of
Ishlawrcoed. Was probably a very small place at some time in the past.
The name has been utilised to cover a much larger area for census purposes as previously explained.
The same applies to U(s)chlawrcoed in the parish which
for census purposes includes Tredegar, Rhymney etc
The other area in the parish Manmoel (Mamhole) at least has a village with a physical prescence but again covers a larger area. ie the village and the Western side of the Ebbw Fawr valley including Victoria and Ebbw vale.
Have a look at GENUKI
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Bedwellty/Gaz1868.html
Rhys
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Please don't apologise! You are being very patient and helpful! :D
The enumerator's walk for 1871 is not much more descriptive, other than to say that the eastern boundary is the Sirhowy river. It also mentions a bridge at Ynyspwlldu - not found on maps yet. The 1881 enumerators description is a bit more helpful:
The area between the parish roads from Rock Fach (on the left) to the Bedwellty Vicarage, thence by the Tynewydd Cottage down to the Ynyspwlldu bridge.
So now we know... ;D
many thanks again, Arranroots ;)
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Arronroots
I know that this is a very old post - I came across it when doing a google search for a local Blackwood location. I presume that you would have found the locations you want by now, but just in case you did not find the 'Ynyspwlldu' bridge, this is the bridge that crosses the Sirhowy by the Rock & Fountain pub - and now in the front of Blackwood Rugby Club.
Regards
Ray
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Hello Ray
That's kind of you to reply - thanks. I have just re-read the thread, having forgotten all about it in the interim. I never did buy Esther's siblings birth certs either! I will have to get back to the maps, armed with the new information you've just provided and if still in doubt, I think a visit to the rugby club would be in order - what do you reckon?
;D ;D
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My second home during the season - only 1 mile away- only to glad to see you.
I have a Blackwood yesterday book (1991 publication) with some old maps of Blackwood and area which I can scan and send on if you want - away for the weekend so can do it next week.
The 1880 map shows very few houses in the Charlestown area - and probably none left now - but if you want it just post your email.
I think the family you were following was Bird - my best friend when I was growing up in Cefn Fforest was Ron Bird who lived just 3 doors from me in Pencoed Ave.
Ray
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Hi Ray
Again - a very kind offer thanks!
I won't post my email address - partly because Rootschat doesn't allow it, to prevent spammers. I'll double-check with my family that they don't have the book already, because it is likely still to be copyrighted - it might make a nice present for mum though. Thanks for the idea!
My BIRD family consisted almost entirely of girls. I am not 100% certain because Esther had a twin called John and I think he died young but haven't bought the certificate. I really should ...
Anyway, if he did die young there would be no descendants of the same name - but if not, maybe your pal belongs to him? Just speculating - we had best not discuss him here as he is (hopefully) still alive.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arronroots
No problem - Incidently there are now 6 Blackwood Yesterday books (by Ewart Smith)- and most of them are in the local libraries.
Regards
Ray
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Hi Arronroots
Our recent communication piqued my interest again and I borrowed a number of the Blackwood Yesterday books. In book 5 (published 2004) there is a copy of a letter written in 1920 by a Stanley Lanagan which starts:
"I was born June 14th 1878 in a cottage near the old foundary in the part of Blackwood, then known as 'Charlestown'.
The letter goes on to describe the area, life and work.
It describes the Blackwood of his early days as:
"Blackwood was a beautiful little village in those days, as it is a prosperous little business town today. In those days there was fine trout in the Sirhowy river and many brooks of clear water in the vicinity of the village. Birds of every description in the woods, even the nightingale visited the locality"
Regards
Ray
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Oh, that's so picturesque!
The last time I was down there, it was a beautiful day and you could almost imagine nightingales ...
;) ;D
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Hi
I was told my great grandfather came to Bargoed before the first pit was sunk, and it was called Charlestown.
I have also found this link which seems to confirm -
http://www.fochriwhistory.co.uk/page156.htm
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Hi Taffrocker
Welcome to Rootschat and thanks for your reply.
I'll have to get my map out!
Kind regards, Arranroots 😊