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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: OzKat on Wednesday 14 June 06 03:52 BST (UK)
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Much as I love having access to the 1841 census now, I have so much trouble deciphering it. ;D
I would appreciate people telling me what they think this occupation says. Does it say "Vicar of Wandsworth" or am I way off the mark. :-\
Kath
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Hi Kath :)
Yes, I think you're right.
I agree with you too that some of the 1841 handwriting is shocking :o :o :o but fun to try to work it out (or not... ;D )
Prue
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worth
Definitely Vicar of Wands
Great example of forward planning :)
Cheers Dave
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OzKat,
As it is such an unusual name, I guess you have Googled extensively. Just in case -
there are several hits though I didn't find anything specifically about DC being Vicar of
Wandsworth.
A Google for "Daniel Charles Delafosse" got just one hit - it refers to a Deed about
the advowson of the parish of Shere; it reads "Following mortgages between
1788 and 1833, the advowson was sold to Cyril John Monkhouse on behalf of
Daniel Charles Delafosse in 1833". ('Advowson' = The right in English
ecclesiastical law of presentation to a vacant benefice. Shere was a parish in
Surrey.)
You have probably also seen references to the DELAFOSSE family in references
about Sir Richard BURTON; a Google for:
"charles delafosse" + "richard burton"
gets quite a few hits and they include the following quote:
"In 1832 Col. Burton brought them back to England, where, on the advice of an
old friend, he enrolled his sons in a school in Richmond run by Rev. Charles
Delafosse who was the chaplain to the Duke of Cumberland. The Richmond
Academy, run since 1764 by the Delafosse family, was situated in a mansion at
the corner of the Little Green and Duke Street ..."
The descriptions are not particularly complimentary about the school or Rev.
Charles (I wonder whether this was Daniel Charles or another member of the
family; perhaps DC as another site lists Delafosse the Rev. D. C. Richmond-
green in a list of subscribers to British Fiction, 1820-1829).
Etc...
JAP
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Hi JAP
Thanks for the references and I had just started googling on this guy when I posted. A lot has been written about the various Delaforce families on the internet and otherwise (see Patrick Delaforce and Ken Baldry's book - The Delaforce Family History Research) but I had reached the point where I was trying to verify some of what had been provided to these fellows about our particular branch of the family Delaforce/Delafosse/De La Fosse/Delforce/and other variations. I am not comfortable that some of it is correct.
For instance this Daniel Charles Delafosse (bn Richmond, Surrey) is listed as the brother of my husband's ancestor William Delafosse (bn Bermondsey, Surrey). The difficulty I have with this is that William is a labourer in the weaving business - a calenderer and calico glosser etc. The Delaforces had been strongly represented in silk weaving in London. And in fact his son is transported to Australia for stealing some clothing. But not knowing much about the next generation further back apart from the parents being known as Daniel Delafosse and Elizabeth (Betty) Peters and having a marriage date and place 1782 at St Brides in Fleet Street, I find it a little hard to digest that this Daniel and our William could be brothers in the same family with such very different occupations. Not saying it is impossible but I would just feel more comfortable if I could find more proof. And as I said, I have only just embarked on this search.
There are some other relationships and details in this family tree that I find a little odd but I'll do a bit more researching on these areas before I say anything more.
The Charles you mention below is probably Daniel Charles Delafosse's son since in the 1851 census he is listed as the incumbent to St Mathias or somesuch (at work now and don't have detail). And yes, in 1851 Daniel Charles Delafosse shows up as the rector in Shere.
And yes the unusual name can make it difficult to work out who is who because it is almost invariably spelt differently across different references. Even once the Delaforces were in Australia, the name still kept getting mispelt (matter of opinion, I guess) - Delaforce, Deleforce, Delforce, Dalisford etc. And it doesn't stop with the surname. For one of the daughters in our line - Liscillier - I have found 16 variants on the first name so far across different documents.
Regards
Kath
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Kath,
It sounds like a VERY interesting family - lets hope you keep us RootsChatters
informed!
Don't give up on spelling variants - there may be more to come!
On my one-name study for the not very common Scots surname "McLaws", I now
have something between 90 and 100 variant spellings - and that's just extracted
entries in the IGI for the UK and my own interpretations of UK census entries (not
some of the silly mis-transcriptions!).
If I venture into North American renditions, there are even more ...
All the best,
JAP
PS: Perhaps the "transported" chap was a black sheep? Googling, it does
seem that all were French Huguenots and that all were connected - but such
origins have often turned into something different for at least some holders of a
particular name :D
The brother of the very respectable ancestor of my children was sentenced to
7 years transportation for forgery and uttering. Just a couple of weeks before he
was due to sail for VDL he was pardoned following a petition (though his conviction
certainly wasn't overturned). All sorts of things happen in families ... And the
"convict" came to Australia a couple of years later. His brother a few years later
again. The "convict" made a lot more money here than his brother! As did another
brother who first came to Melbourne and then later to NZ.
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Hi
Yes please do update us I have really enjoyed reading this thread.
Jane
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Yes please do update us I have really enjoyed reading this thread.
I would love to keep people updated as and when I find anything out. It is indeed an interesting family.
If anyone is interested, the book I referred to below can be found at http://www.art-science.com/Ken/Genealogy/PD/Index.html in an online version and pdf.
The convict ancestor is William Delaforce (1817-1900) http://www.australiahistory.com.au/1834-William_Delaforce.htm who is interesting in that he ghost wrote an account of his experiences called "The life and experiences of an ex-convict in Port Macquarie". There is also a diary attributed to him in an historical society publication I picked up in Port Macquarie but the style changes so dramatically in the middle I would love to find the original so I could see for myself. If both halves of the diary are written by the same person then that person forgot how to spell and write grammatically in his late twenties but was perfectly competant earlier on.
The Old Bailey accounts of the trial are also interesting as he had many witnesses saying he was at work and a different place at the time of the crime. I know all the convicts claimed they were innocent but this account I found interesting. Maybe, in fact, he was innocent. They seem to have taken the account of one bystander and ignored all the others.
And JAP, I have followed a few of your posts about your McLaws from time to time. This must have been a very frustrating but interesting journey - trying to tie all the variations together.
Kath :)
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An addendum to my previous post - I can't help getting annoyed when I see all the mistranscriptions of this surname in the various census transcriptions and when I've searched for something for hours then found it in a completely different form. :-\
The problem is, because I know what the name and its variants should be, it looks really obvious to me when I look at the originals. But the transcribers make "c"s into "d"s and all sorts of other variations. As I think I mentioned below, one entry which was clearly Delaforce turned into Dalisford when transcribed.
Sometimes I think the people just try to do it too quickly. I know when I've tried to transcribe I take too long.
So ... I know I shouldn't get annoyed but I just can't seem to help myself. ;)
Sorry to all those volunteer transcribers out there - I do know what it is like ... really. :)
Kath
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Since there were some folk interested I though I'd post a quick update on the Delafosses of Richmond because I've done enough googling etc to be fairly confident that he is definitely not the brother of my husband's great great great great grandfather William Delafosse (Delaforce) despite the claims of one of my husband's distant relatives.
There is probably more to find (especially under the different spellings of the name) but I doubt I'll spend any more time or money on it for now - better spent on the family I can prove to be related even though they don't seem to be as interesting. Hopefully this can be of use to someone who comes along looking at a later time.
Most of these Delafosses did very well for themselves. Our William Delafosse unfortunately appears to have died in the poorhouse by the way and really can't be related to these folk.
In Richard Burton's writings (explorer not actor) he refers to the time spent at the Richmond Academy which had been run by the Delafosse family since 1764 and which was at the corner of Little Green Street and Duke Street, Richmond. He describes the Rev. Charles Delafosse as a "burly savage" and says the school was badly managed with the boys ill fed and ill managed. The fees were high. He was only there a short time (1832) because the school was closed because of an outbreak of measles where a number of boys died.
I'm not entirely sure which of the Delafosse family this Charles was unless he was indeed the Daniel Charles Delafosse that I have been looking at. At the time he was also the chaplain to the Duke of Cumberland.
There is a monument to the Rev Robert Mark Delafosse (father of Daniel Charles Delafosse) in the church of St Mary Magdalene in Richmond. On 29/12/1780 he was appointed as curate at Asheldon in Essex at 30 pounds per annum.
Robert Mark Delafosse was married to Jane Theresia Dabbadie at St Olave in Hart Street, London on 21 July 1782. They had children (all christened at St Mary Magdalen) - Daniel Charles Delafosse (chr 17 July 1784), John Roberts Delafosse (7 April 1786), Henry Paxton Delafosse (chr 3 Mar 1787), Edward Hollingworth Delafosse (chr 1 Jan 1789), Elizabeth Catherine Delafosse (chr 23 Jul 1790), Mary Elizabeth Delafosse (chr 27 Dec 1791), Louisa Leslie Delafosse (chr apr 1793), Henry delafosse (born 11 march 1794, chr 23 apr 1794), Amelia Maria Delafosse (chr 28 nov 1796), Francis Joseph Delafosse (1 jun 1798).
Of these,
1 - Daniel Charles Delafosse (who might have been the Charles mentioned by Richard Burton) married Phoebe Ann Quilter and had the following children all christened at St Mary Magdalen -
Charles Walpole Delafosse (born 1 jun 1815, chr 30 jun 1815), Frederick Edward Palmer Delafosse (born 12 oct 1816, chr 15 jan 1817), George Frederick Delafosse (born 28 Frb 1818, chr 3 jun 1818), Robert Mackworth Deverell Delafosse (chr 9 jan 1821), Fanny Sophia Delafosse (born 3 jun 1822, chr 14 aug 1822), Augustus Newland Delafosse (chr 30 jun 1825), Phoebe Anne Theresa Delafosse (chr 13 apr 1814).
Daniel was the Vicar of Wandsworth in the 1841 census living in Allfarthing Lane, Wandsworth with his wife Phoebe and three of his sons - Charles, Frederick and Augustus.
He has taken up the position as Rector in the parish of Shere by the 1851 census (mentioned in one of JAP's posts below). He is living with his wife Phoebe and his son Augustus who is the incumbent at St Marthas (Mathias?) and being visited by his daughter Fanny Shaw (married in 1843 in Wandsworth to Frederick Wadeson Shaw). (Fanny is in the 1841 census visiting a family in Godstone Surrey.)
Daniel died in 1859 in Guildford, Surrey.
His son Augustus is in the 1871 census as a clerk in holy orders who is a visitor at St Andrew the less Cambridgeshire. He is with Teresa Delafosse 14 visitor (born Broadwindson, Dorset)
Catherine Delafosse 11 visitor (born Southampton, Hants)
Charles Delafosse 9 visitor (also born Southampton).
Ellen Theresa Delafosse was born 9 May 1857 in Shere, Surrey to parents Augustus Newland Delafosse and Catharine.
Catherine Peyce Delafosse was born to Augustus and Catherine at Southampton and christened at St James on 2 March 1860.
Phoebe Ann Theresa Selafosse died 1840 in Wandsworth, Surrey. Mary Delafosse died 1855 in Wandsworth, Surrey.
I also have some children of George Frederick Delafosse but because of the spelling I can't be sure if this is the same George.
The rest of the Robert Delafosse children are in my next post.
Kath ;)
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Continued from previous post.
Sundry bits and pieces about the rest of the Robert Delafosse children of Richmond......
2 - John Roberts Delafosse married 27 jul 1812, St Leonards, Streatham, Surrey, to Anna Maria Shield. They are in Croyden, Surrey in the 1841 census. John is a merchant.
In 1851 he is at 26 Streatham Green, Streatham described as a tea and coffee dealer in London. He is with his wife Anna M Delafosse (from Hammersmith) and 3 servants.
3 - Edward Hollingworth Delafosse is in the 1851 census in
East Allington, Devon. He is described as Commander in Royal Navy. He is with his wife Sophia Delafosse 50 (from Iver Bucks?) and 5 servants.
In 1861 he is down to 1 servant and is described as Captain RN reserved. He is with his wife Sophie and they live at Courtney Square, Richmond Villas, Walborough, Devon.
He married Sophia Young on 12 Aug 1820 at St Mary Magdalen.
4 - Henry Delafosse died 3 oct 1845 in Lakki-Ki-Dera India.
He married Louisa Maria Shield on 17 April 1827 in Islington, London. I have some possible children born in India but this may be a different Henry Delafosse because there is a different mother.
5 - Amelia Maria Delafosse married Cyril John Mouckhouds on 28 April, 1821 at St Mary Magdalen.
6 - Francis Joseph Delafosse is in the 1871 census described as a retired merchant. He is with his wife Dorothy, 71 (born Richmond, Surrey) and they are living in Paddington, London at 16 Cleveland Square. He married 28 Dec 1824 at Marlborough, Devon.
The only other related records for this group of Richmond Delafosses is an Ann Delafosse chr 8 July1759 at Richmond, Surrey whose parents were Charles Delafosse and Eliza.
And in the 1841 census there is a Margaret Delafosse 11 of independent means who seems to be a student at Green Tide, Richmond, Surrey.
I hope something of this is useful to someone in the future.
Kath :)
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I've only just seen Kath's posts from 2006.
The Richmond Academy was founded in 1764 by Charles Delafosse (1715-1778), only son of Barthélémy who had arrived from France in 1708 and kept a school in London.
Robert Mark Delafosse (1757-1819) was Charles' only surviving son. He took over the school and was also tutor to the sons of King George III. His wife's maiden surname was d'Abbadie -- however it may have been transcribed by Ancestry and the like, or even misspelled in the parish register.
By Richard Burton's day the school was in the hands of their son Daniel Charles.
John Roberts Delafosse (1786-1856) was a merchant in Addiscombe near Croydon; he married his 2nd cousin Anna Maria Shield (great-niece of the Charles first mentioned). His brother Henry (1794-1845) married her niece Louisa Maria Shield; they had a number of children born in India (all with the same two parents as far as is known).
Amelia's husband was Cyril Monkhouse.
The place in Devon is Malborough; Marlborough is in Wiltshire.
No connection with the Delaforce family!