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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Fransmoi on Friday 16 June 06 00:03 BST (UK)
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David Gibson FLEMING born 30 April 1813 in Glasgow
died 31 Aug 1862 in Manchester
son
David Gibson FLEMING born 1854 /5 Manchester
grandson
David Gibson FLEMING born 14 Apr 1878 Ardullie SCT
A probable great grandson
David Gibson FLEMING 1889-1980s was a chemistry lecturer in Glasgow University.Nothing else known.
Of these 4 DGFs, the second was married to my ancestor
Eizabeth Montgomery ROSS ( Elsie) and was a partner with her cousin Iain Woodman Ross in a Mexican ranch at Jimenez.
Fleming returned to England in 1899 and the whole family seems to have disappeared !
At Ardullie Elsie and David had 6 children :-
Elizabeth Grace Fleming 1877
David Gibson Fleming 1878
Guy Roberton Fleming 1879
Basil Lennox Fleming 1882
Olive Mary Fleming 1884
Muriel Montgomery Fleming 1888
Anyone out there recognise any of these Flemings ? Sorry the picture is of poor quality.
Fransmoi.
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Hi,
The 1901 census has them in Eastbourne, Sussex
11 Victoria Place
Elsie M Fleming, Wife, M, 46, born Ireland
Grace E Fleming, Daur, U, 23, Scotland
Olive M Fleming, Daur, U, 17, Scotland
Murial M Fleming Daur, U, 13, Scotland
Regards,
Mo
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Very many thanks ! I've spent hours searching in vain. I'm obviously using the wrong sites .
Well done to Rootschat.
Fransmoi.
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Hi
Just incase you're not aware, David Gibson Fleming and his brother Basil Roberton Fleming are both listed in the 1871 census, aged 16 & 15 respectively, as pupils at Repton, Derbyshire with the surname HEMING. It's not an indexing error, the origina has Heming. Sounds like the enumerator added the names from a register rather than asking each boy.
:)
Ru
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Unaware I most certainly was ! What great detective work.
I'm still looking for the deaths of their parents but this too will surface when I least expect it.
Here are photos of David Gibson Fleming and Guy Roberton Fleming in Mexico before 1900.
Meanwhile burning the midnight oils....
Thanks everyone.
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Looks like he died 1922: If you search the Civil Probate Index at http://www.one-name.org/cgibin/archive/frontpage.cgi?study=Fleming for 'David Gibson' and 'John Gibson' and 'Basil Roberton' that will give you 5 wills to start with.
All the indexes here (including BDMs) are complete within the dates given.
:)
Ru
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You're a star ! Already a devoted fan of this site I can hardly believe this good fortune.
Sorry the photos were too big - will resize in future.
Have found not only David's but his father ,his son Basil and his wife Eliz.Montgomery nee Ross.
The light will be on late tonight ! Many many thanks.
Fransmoi.
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My father's father was Guy Roberton Fleming, a distant ian Fleming relative. He had a Mexico ranch among other adventures (lost and made 3 fortunes in Central America, Mexico and California). My half sister has a lot of family records. The dates and locations match. I am Nigel Fleming, reachable at ** email address removed to prevent spam and other abuse. Please use the PM system to exchange private information.Best wishes
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Great news indeed.I have lots to share offline.
Frances( Nee Ross))
Inverness,
Scotland
Am to e-mail to you direct.
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Hi Ten and Frances
What a brilliant story, and what excitement! Do let us know how you get on if you don't mind sharing.
Can I be boring for a minute though?
The moderators will probably remove your email addresses to stop[p spam, id theft etc. Click on the buttons on the left and that lets people send personal messages with emailaddresses etc in.
If you want to do it now, click on modify and you can remove the address and then click on save to put up the new version.
People will still find you with pm's.
Enjoy though.
Hope you don't mind me mentioning it.
Best wishes
Emms
Emms
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Thank you Emms. Forgot where to find the link to personal messages.
Grt uncle Iain Woodman Ross and his business partner David Fleming made a fortune with the ranch importing Hereford cattle the descendants of which are seen there to this day.
Fransmoi,
Inverness
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Reading your Fleming posts, I'm very curious about Elizabeth Montgomery Ross's family. My g-grandfather changed his name when he arrived in the USA to John Montgomery. His real name is unknown but we think he was born abt 1841 (England?) and may have used his mother's name. His children's names were Bessie, George, Howard and Alfred. DNA testing suggests he may be related to Ross.
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Hi Fransmoi
I was off line a few days a while ago and somehow didn't see your reply. Anyway. Thank you. I've been looking again at the stories and the photo's again. They're amazing. You're really lucky to have those.
By the way, I'm sure you've found it by now or had a message to reply to, but the personal message buttone is one of the two to the left of any post from the person you want to contact. Hover and the right button names will come up.
Keep us posted.
Best wishes
Emms
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Thanks to this website I have been in contact with Guy Roberton Fleming's grandchilden (Tens above) Nigel and Caroline. He was quite a character it seems and is definitely the shared ancestor via his mother .Still ploughing through the records at 3 a.m .
Fransmoi.
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Reading your Fleming posts, I'm very curious about Elizabeth Montgomery Ross's family. My g-grandfather changed his name when he arrived in the USA to John Montgomery. His real name is unknown but we think he was born abt 1841 (England?) and may have used his mother's name. His children's names were Bessie, George, Howard and Alfred. DNA testing suggests he may be related to Ross.
It does sound famliar but nothing I can substantiate I'm afraid.The Ross family were from Miltowne of New Tarbat, Kilmuir Easter 'Ross-shire Scotland.
My gt gt gt grandfather Andrew Ross tacksman of Kildary married Margaret Montgomery( b 1759) dtr of neighbour Joseph Montgomery .Their son John b1794c but did not travel as far as we know. Bessie and George were John's grandchildren but sadly I do not know of Alfred nor Howard.
Good hunting.
Fransmoi.
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Looks like he died 1922: If you search the Civil Probate Index at http://www.one-name.org/cgibin/archive/frontpage.cgi?study=Fleming for 'David Gibson' and 'John Gibson' and 'Basil Roberton' that will give you 5 wills to start with.
All the indexes here (including BDMs) are complete within the dates given.
:)
Ru
Sorry folks this link no longer works so just shorten it to http:// www.One-name.org and search for Fleming.
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T'is very curious! The odd part is that is that we DNA tested for my "John Montgomery" which (at 25 markers) and he was a perfect match to a ROSS family who were long time residents of the USA. (They settled in Tennessee in the mid-1850s, but my John was never there. It is assumed they originated in Scotland...but early ancestry is missing.) Write to me directly at (*), if you wish. Thanks.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Have sent an invitation to peruse our tree on Ancestry as this is getting complicated !
My Ross nephew has had his DNA listed so I will ask for a copy.
We are all descended from Helen Montgomery & Andrew Ross who died 1836 at Kilmuir Easter ,Ross-shire, Scotland.
I have never found siblings for this Ross and only one for his son John so it has crossed my mind they may have emigrated but smallpox in 1784 and Cholera in 1832 decimated these areas.
Cheers,
Frances in Inverness.Scotland.
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Your David Gibson Fleming is the right age to belong to a family I'm searching on in Glagow.
A mention on page 144 of Glasgow, Past and Present (1884), digitized on Google, says:
One of the last erected windows is dedicated to the memory of their ancestors, merchant burgesses in Glasgow, since 1643, and of their parents, William Fleming of Sawmillfield, and Janet Gibson, his wife, by William Fleming, John Gibson Fleming, and David Gibson Fleming... [The three last-named gentlemen were the grandchildren of William Fleming, sen., of Sawmillfield, and his wife, Miss Tarbet.]
I'm searching on a Robert Tarbett Gibson Fleming, possibly related to the above, who was a juror in Singapore in the early 1900s and who married my husband's great aunt Mary Ellen Geary. I know that the John Gibson Fleming noted above was a famous doctor in Glasgow who left quite a large estate, part of which helped to fund businesses in Rangoon, Burma, that his son Matthew Tarbett Fleming was involved in. That family got around!
Since John Gibson Fleming was born in 1809, and his older brother William in 1808, it follows logically that your David Gibson Fleming born in 1813 could have been their brother. FWIW.
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I have since found a lot more on this family including a picture of the doctor's house at Cloberfield ,Glasgow and have contact with living descendants.
Can you p.m. me with your email address please so I can send it on to you.
A very interesting family !
Frances in Inverness,SCT.
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Er, how do I "pm"?
:-[
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A few snippets re David Gibson Fleming
Preston Chronicle December 31st 1841
Marriages
On the 22nd inst. at the Scotch Church, Manchester, Mr David Gibson Fleming, merchant, of that town, to Agnes, eldest daughter of the late Robert Dunlop, Esq., of Huddersfield.
Oxford Journal September 7th 1844
Deaths
At Manchester, Agnes, wife of David G. Fleming, aged 25.
Glasgow Herald September 22nd 1848
Marriages
At Manchester, on the 20th instant, David G Fleming, merchant, to Elizabeth, daughter of John Robertson, surgeon, Brighton Place.
Glasgow Herald November 1st 1850
Births
At Portland Place, Manchester, on the 29th ultimo., Mrs David Gibson Fleming; a son.
Glasgow Herald October 18th 1852
At 77, Dover Terrace, Manchester, on the 15th instant, Mrs David G. Fleming; a daughter
Glasgow Herald June 10th 1857
At Oakbank, Whally Range, Manchester, on the 5th instant. Mrs David G Fleming; a daughter.
Leeds Mercury September 25th 1866
Marriages Macfie – Fleming
Sept. 20th at the Presbyterian Church, Grosvenor-square, Manchester, Dugald Macfie, to Agnes, second daughter of the late David Gibson Fleming of Manchester.
London Gazette 19th October 1866
David Gibson Fleming, late of the city of Manchester, and of Whalley Range, near Manchester, in the county of Lancaster, Merchantdied on the 31st August 1862.
Leeds Mercury March 16th 1867
Marriage Beith – Fleming
March 14th at Grosvenor-square Presbyterian Church, Manchester, John Alexr. Beith, to Janet, eldest daughter of the late David Gibson Fleming, Oak Bank, Whalley Range, Manchester.
Times August 11th 1888
On the 9th inst. at West Clandon, in the county of Surrey, Hugh Fenwick Boyd, of the Inner Temple, Barrister-at-law, and youngest surviving son of the late Edward Fenwick Boyd, of Moor House, in the county of Durham, to Lillie, fourth daughter of the late David Gibson Fleming, of Oakbank, Whalley Range, Manchester, and of Mrs Fleming of Tanfield House, West Clandon.
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Super snippets these but a small correction in the third one.Would you believe the lady's name is Roberton without the 's' and passed down the family.
Anyone need more please go to http://www.ainslie.org.uk from whence I gained a lot of the Fleming history.
Cheers, and thanks,
Fransmoi.
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I have photos from liverpool and Manchester that are connected to the Fleming family.
Any connection with 3 Langton road.
These Flemings are in Cumbria.
Found also postcards from America unused,
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Addresses I'd have to recheck on certificates but this one does not ring bells. Any names I could conjure with ?
Have recently been into the archives and found the oringinal Fleming of Sawmillfield so named for his fight to retain the land against a corrupt official !
Thank you for the offer.
Fransmoi.
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My name is Michael David Fleming, my father was David Gibson Fleming, the 4th D.G.Fleming after William and Janet. I and my wife have done extensive research into my family and would love to share the Knowledge. I am curious as to why 'The Lost' David Gibson Fleming ? My Father was married to Constance Joan Dunster, His Father D.G.F to Olivia Agnes Railton, you seem to have further back covered. Message me if you would like any more information re the family as a whole.
Regards Michael Fleming
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This is good news ,Michael. I have found some of the Flemings buried and commemorated in the Glasgow Necropolis and have found descendants too.
Please PM me with your e-mail address so I can invite you to my Ancestry tree and you can show me our link !
The reference to the 'lost' Fleming may have been regarding the death of one D.G.F. who was listed as having died not at home in Esher but in London.It has been a while since I worked on their line.
(See page 1 of this posting.)
Fransmoi
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The 4th David Gibson Fleming was my father and he was not a Chemistry lecturer in scotland.
D. G. F. 3rd born 1879 was a shipping cashier born in Scotland. He married Olivia Railton in Chorlton Medlock, Lancashire in June 1903. They had 1 son D.G.F. 4th born 01-05-1908. They were living at 32 Bamford road, Didsbury, Lancashire.
D.G.F. 3rd was a Capt 2nd Bat Gordon Highlanders in the first world war, he was decorated by King George the 5th and subsequently promoted to Major 22-12-1921. We believe that around 1916-17 D.G.F. 3rd left Olivia and went to France to start a new life. this is where things get hazey although the family still had some contact and a trust was set up for Olivia and D.G.F. 4th.( I have a parchment copy of the Fleming trust)
Olivia and my father moved to Hastings where he married my mother Constance Joan Thompson nee Dunster. They had 2 children, my sister Shirley Anne Fleming and myself Michael David Fleming. At the time they were living in Tenterden Kent, my Mothers birthplace. Later we were to live in the Peasemarsh Rye area of sussex . My father passed away 31-05-1997 in Colchester Essex where he had been living with my sister towards the end of his life. My father had a Gentlemans out fitting business.
My Grandmother lived out her days in Beckley sussex, she died in 1972 in Hastings, Sussex
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Sadly I do not recognise any of these good folk.They are too new to my tree !! My Scottish great grandfather's brother Andrew Ross had a daughter Elizabeth Montgomery Ross b1855 known as Elsie and a bit of a targe I am led to believe ! She married David Gibson Fleming b 1854/55 Whalley Range, Manchester.Their 6 children were born at Ardullie Mains,Kiltearn,Ross-shire the farm having been let originally to her uncle and aunt Henry and Margaret Montgomery( nee Ross) Sim.They later ranched in mexico with my great uncle John" Iain " Woodman Ross .
This David was the son of David Gibson Fleming and Elizabeth Roberton his second wife.Elsie and DGF had a son also DGF born at Ardullie 14 Apr 1878.Could he be our link ?
You wil find them all at http://www.ainslie.org.uk. I am consumed with curiosity now .Do get back to me.
Fransmoi.
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As far as I know NO DGF's lived in Esher.In 1871 Elizabeth (Roberton) Fleming was listed as head of house at 31 Whalley road Moss side Manchester. She was married to DGF b.1814, they were married 1848, The children were William Matthew 1851, Mary 1853, John G 1858, Elizabeth 1859, Helen F 1861, and Isabel M 1862 , 6 of the 10 children living with her along with a niece May Halley a governess, cook laundress waitress servant and housemaid.
In 1881Basil Roberton Fleming was living at Harbledown lodge Harbledown Kent Head of house with Elizabeth F 1859 (sister) John Gibson Fleming 1858 (brother) and Lucy Fleming (widow of Matthew) aged 27.
!891 Elizabeth was again head of the house at Tanfield West Clandon Surrey age 63 also at this address were Basil R, John G, both of whom were insurance underwriters and Lucy.
1901 Elizabeth still head of house White lodge Esher Surrey age 73. at home Basil R and Mary Moinet nee Fleming 1853 + servants
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Yes we have all the Ardullie info and Elsie is my great grandmother, I have her as born in Clonmel Tipperary Ireland 1854/5 her father being Andrew Ross born1824 Milnetown of New Tarbat Ross-shire, died 4th March1860 Tore house Killearnan Ross-shire and Marianne Gerrard? born1828 N. Ireland. At one time they lived at 11 Victoria place Lancashire, they wer married 29 Feb 1876 at Muthil in Crieff. Andrew Ross 1824- 1860 Tore Mains, Ross-shire died aged 35 chief clerk bank accountant, union bank / farmer.
Listed as married at time of death to 2nd wife Elizabeth, mother to Elizabeth Montgomery Ross.
1st wife Marrianne Gerrard (father Thomas Gerrard, mother Elizabeth of Gibbstown Meath co.
Marrianne and Andrew had Marrianne Jane Ross b. 1853 at Salthill Gallway married at age 30 to John Kingston in Benella Australia 23 Aug 1882. Marrianne Jane states that her mothers name as Marrianne Gerrard on marriage certificate but no marriage certificate found for Andrew Ross and Marrianne Gerrard, maybe not married in Gallway. Maybe Marrianne Gerrard Ross died 1854/5.
As you know Andrew went on to have 6 children with Elsie
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Yes you have us all ! Andrew was a banker and seems to have had children by two women. Marianne Jane was born in Salthill,Galway about 1852 and her mother was Marianne Gerrard according to her marriage certificate of 1882 in Australia where she went with her father's widowed sister Anna Ross - Mrs William Young Sim on the ship Bengal in 1871. She had been living with her aged grandfather John Ross and his sister Elizabeth on the farm at Milntown of Newtarbat (Now Kildary),Ross-shire.
I cannot find a marriage for Ross -Fuller/Muller ? his dtr Elizabeth's mother shown on her marriage to DGF in Muthil .On his death cetificate it coyly states he was married but gives no widow's name ! The family farm at Brealangwell on the Black Isle was lost when grt grandfather George Ross became a victim of the Glasgow Bank crash.He then took over Tore Mains from his brother James Errington Ross who went as factor to Abercairney ,Perthshire.
And on it goes !
Good Hunting,
Fransmoi.
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Hello,
i live in France and I'am looking for my ancestry : David Gibson Fleming born about :1874 and died in 1963.
Regards.
Franck Fleming
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Hello,
DGF 3rd was my grand father. When he went to France, he has had a new life. He get married.
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When DGf 3rd when to France, he get married with Yvonne Allegre and they have had a child : Max my father, died in 2010.
Before coming to France, DGF 3rd has had a child named : Peggy. She get married and was called : Sylvester. I met her, 15 years ago in Nice south of France.
I am the link between, DGF 3rd english life and her french life.
Several years after (about 12 years i think) he went back to England and nobody get news about him, even Max (to have once more, a new life). I will be pleased to get contact with Michael Fleming. We are at "the same level" in the genealogic tree, Michael Fleming in England, me in France...
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Dear Franck, thank you for making contact with me. As you may have guessed my family knew nothing of your existence or that of Peggy. I now have many questions as you probably do too. I am happy to share information with you however I would prefer to do it via e.mail as I too find Roots chat difficult. I guess that makes us cousins of a sort. I think you left your e.mail address on one of the messages 'tag210' etc if this is incorrect then maybe you can let me know. I will endeavour to contact you shortly.
Regards
Michael Fleming
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I have just tried to send a message via tag210 and was unable to do so, please let me know your e.mail address.
Regards
Michael Fleming
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I am in the process pf clearing the decks prior to moving house and I came across a large envelope containing a collection of papers, photos and correspondence attributed to David Gibson Fleming MC, 2nd Bn Gordon Highlanders. I decided to look into the history of this gallant officer and via Google I came across some posts on RootsChats enquiring about DGF's family - one of them from Peter Fleming who I believe is DGF's grandson. I hope a way can be found for returning this small but emotive archive to the family. Almost all of it concerns DGF's services during WW1, but there are also some fascinating bits and pieces deriving from his time in Mexico immediately prior to the outbreak of war.
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In my earlier post I should have specified Michael Fleming and not Peter Fleming. Sorry for the mistake.
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In addition to the David Gibson Fleming material that I intend to donate, I have discovered a few WW1-period photos of his brother Guy Roberton Fleming, plus some related bits and pieces, all linked to his service with the Royal Field Artillery.
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In addition to the David Gibson Fleming material that I intend to donate, I have discovered a few WW1-period photos of his brother Guy Roberton Fleming, plus some related bits and pieces, all linked to his service with the Royal Field Artillery.
Hi Cliff, Not sure if you have been receiving my email replies but just in case, my email address is michaelfleming5871@yahoo.co.uk as you can appreciate I don't really want to put my address on the site. If you wouldn't mind emailing me directly I will give you my address as the family and I are extremely excited about your generous offer of information about my Grandfather. A huge thank you in advance and I await your contact.
Yours Michael Fleming
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Michael, what a great connection you have made with Cliff. You can contact him directly through the Private message system. Rootschat policy is for no living people details, nor addresses (email or postal) to be posted on the site, and a moderator will very likely remove your email address from the post, as is the normal procedure.
But, as you both have the required number of posts, (3) you can now go ahead with the Private Message method. Just click on Cliff's user name, and you will see the "send Private message" link.
Good luck!