RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: cardiff Irish on Saturday 17 June 06 14:05 BST (UK)
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It seems so many people make the point that the Irish have no records. I think one must keep in mind that if you do not have the information of your ancestors then you can't suddenly expect someone to find it without any information. Patrick O'Sullivan in Co's Cork or Kerry will hardly yield results just as John Smith in any county of England would not. If you have a name , townland and parish within a county you will probably find them. Parish records are there. CI
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Hi CI,
It does not necessarily mean that Irish does not have records.
The frustration that many researchers have when wading into the Irish genealogy is that there are no early censuses that the rest of UK have which to look up in.
Having the censuses will help a lot in narrowing searches or pinpoint where they were.
I happened to know where my ancestors lived in--but this does not guarantee that you would find the records.
Some Parish Priests did not even reply to the written requests even when you send some donations in.
And there is no "one" website where you can look up on.
For the Irish emigrants who went to the USA, it is a bit difficult because the censuses here only note their birthplaces as Ireland. As to the passengers lists, it doe snot always guarantee that you would find their residences (it could be the birthplace or not). If you are male and got naturalised, great! The naturalisation papers will tell you where he was born in and when. If he knows his Irish-born wife's birthplace and birth date accurately, great.
I have wealth of information on one of my Irish ancestors but the records simply "do not" back it up or are not there.
Irish genealogy is not exactly a self-serve researching.
I have to make do with what I have on my Irish ancestors.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi Tees. The rest of the u.k.? LOL I knew a priest sometime ago who gave me an insight into the amount of letters that he receives from people interested in family history. Indeed i have had quite a few people ask for look ups and the info. is vague to say the least. I'll always try to help out but there comes a point when you have to say there is no chance of finding anything at all. i once looked in the co cork census for somebody and they later informed me all they had was the ship had left Cobh (Queenstown) We all know pre 1901 censuses were destroyed.It's pointless people constantly moaning about the fact.As i say if people have the townland ,parish and county there is no reason why they can't find them. if they have none of those 3 how on earth are they supposed to find them? I'm delighted you seem to have your records. Regards, CI
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Hi CI,
I never said that I have all the records on my Irish ancestors. One g grandfather had a family bible which was a god-send.
Rest of my Irish ancestors--not much to go on but have a general idea of where and whom they were in or born in, etc. Not easy when not having specific information.
As to the rest of UK--I was referring to England & Wales have their censuses which dated back to 1841 so same for Scotland which enabled many genealogists to trace their families a bit easier than with Irish ancestors. That is why many people are frustrated by this fact and having a limited information which impede them from getting records.
I take a dim view of any priest who did not reply to the letters yet keep donations--they could have written back and explained that there is not much to do when there is a little information to go on.
I understand your point of view--however, you would have to forgive other people who research on their Irish ancestors--they wanted to know more about them--we cannot blame them.
Yes, it is such shame that Ireland lost much of its censuses for various wrong reasons including fire.
Currently, I am struggling to find a right birth record on my g grandmother--I know if I were to tell you about it--you will bound to interpret it as moaning and having no sense. But I am just following my nose on the trail as there are some clues that may point me in a right direction. But with Irish attitude toward the genealogy it is difficult to get a good help.
I am waiting from Ireland--I do not know if they are going to act on my written requests or "oh, no--not again, other genealogical request."
I do empathise with other Rootschatters and other genealogists who tried to trace their Irish ancestors.
You are fortunate that you are based in Ireland whereas the majority of people with Irish ancestry live out of Ireland. Many information is lost in the fog of time.
Try to be patient and understanding towards other people who want to know about their Irish ancestors despite little information.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hello Tees. I had a little laugh as you inferred that Ireland was part of the uk. It has been a Republic for sometime now. As for priests keeping money I thought you had mentioned earlier that it might of been lost in the post. Who know's ?he might have even died!I always try to look on the positive side. Yes I am lucky that I live in Ireland not just for genealogy reasons. Thats why I go to the bother of visiting libraries etc for other researchers for look ups. I think I've said what i wanted to on this subject.....I didn't want to get into a debate. All the best in your research. CI
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Hi CI,
I do not appreciate your inferences--I find you to be very thoughtless and not understanding toward other people who have some difficulties with their research on Irish ancestors.
Now your posting made me wish that I ought not to put some of my postings in certain parts of this Rootschats relating to Ireland.
I am not going to carry on anything further as I think you have taken my words out of my mouth.
I resent your implication that I am lazy with my research on my ancestors and all.
I flew back home to do a bit of research but it is difficult when having relatives to visit with, etc. (I was with my Dad.) I think it is a bit ridiculous that one has to spend a lot of money on fares when we have Ancestry and other sites that we can trace our ancestry without having to hop on an aeroplane. That is what I am trying to say.
I am sorry if I am not clear enough today.
As to the priests and the donations, I never say it was about me. Do I??? Do not bring other postings into this posting. OK? Yes, in my case, the letters were supposedly lost.
I think you like to twist my words.
I will have to agree to disagree with you on this time. I will avoid any posting that you contribute.
-Tees
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Having just read the too-ings and fro-ings between CI and Tees I would just like to say my little bit.
Direct ancestors of my husband and myself came from Ireland to England - some before 1841 and some first appear on the 1851 census. On each and every record it states just 'Ireland' except for my hubby's great grandad who we know very well was born in Ireland but his records state Brighton, Camberwell and London as his birth place - never Ireland though he didn't pop up in England until 1871.
I have searched for witnesses to the marriages (where I have that information) who must have been in England at the time of the weddings but then either went back to Ireland or maybe even onto Australia, Canada, America or goodness knows where - but they do not appear on any English census records. Maybe they all died..............
Whilst I agree that to just give a name and dob is a bit like looking for a Smith in England, a county or even a town, it is never-the-less disappointing and frustrating no fruitlessly research every idea.
I had been searching and searching for information on ships lists into England before posting a note on Roots. I had a very nice reply from, I think, the moderator, who probably thought I was daft but he patiently explained why there are no ships lists into England and never made me feel a fool or anything else for asking such a question.
I think it needs to be remembered that sometimes we do ask daft questions - not because we're stupid but occasionally either certain things do not occur to us or simply because we get a little desperate to solve the puzzle.
I have always been very grateful to the people on this site (and some other sites) who have given me lots of information (particularly before the early census records came online). I also spend a lot of time sending information to people who contact me through some sites. This I will keep on doing whilst ever it makes me and the recipients happy. If I start to carp and moan about it I will stop.
I guess the point to this note is - help people and keep smiling - if you no longer wish to help or it becomes irritating then don't bother!!!!
Kind regards from the descendant of people from Ireland (not even sure whether north or south - do know they were Catholics though - does that help?)
Shonagh
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Hi Shonagh,
You said it a lot better than I do. ;D
You are not only one who have this experience and the "problems" with tracing our Irish ancestors.
I feel much better now--I was trying to say along your line of thinking. Perhaps my English is not good enough, eh? ;)
I think people did not mean to moan about it--I think it is more of frustration.
For instance, I found a gravestone back home--I was right it was our ancestors, on my first visit to the cemetery years ago--I was told off by my relative it was not our relatives, etc. After several years of researching, I was able to piece that the ancestors who were buried next to my Dad's grandfather were related to us.
On the second visit, I took the details off the gravestone as well as some photos of it.
Armed with the details, it turned out that I was spot on on three people buried there--but one person continued to elude me because I could not make any connection with this deceased person with ours. I was thinking it is a likely erroneous information on the informant's part but his relationship only complicated the matter for me. I could not figure out how he was related to us!!
This showed you how "difficult" the research can be with Irish ancestors. I am fortunate to have ancestors who left fairly accurate details to us but with few of them are difficult to trace because of the olden days' commonplace of spouses' early deaths and having to remarried again. It makes things a bit difficult for me because you have no censuses to show linkages between one family to next. All of this happened before 1901.
Anyway, it is always enjoyable and fascinating part of doing genealogy--trying to puzzle the information together and determine the relationships, so on.
Thank you for taking time to put this issue in a "right perspective" of what this posting is all about.
Thanks,
Tees
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Yes it seems the enumerator on the whole wasn't interested in what part of Ireland the person was from . If you look in the workhouses of Cardiff and newport you will see not only did they enter the counties but villages and towns too. I do not attempt to dismiss researchers frustrations regarding research in Ireland....... just to try to understand what was going on in Ireland during that time. Well over 1 million died and left Ireland in such a short time. A lot of irish were used as ballast on ships to Welsh ports..... and people ask about ships lists! These same people were left on the sand banks outside of these ports to fend for themselves. All I can say is if you know where they are from...... townlands , parish etc you have a very good chance of finding them. If you have none then really your search is in vain. However, I wish you all the best. CI.
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Hiya to everyone who has been posting on this thread.
A few of us had a brief discussion about searching for Irish ancestors on another thread this week. I feel that the records in Ireland are not too bad. We get a lot of assistance from organisations that keep archives ... family history societies, general record offices, libraries, people such as ourselves on other websites, parish priests and their parish secretaries, public record offices ... the list is endless. I got assistance this week from the Masonic Order archivist at the Grand Lodge of Ireland in Dublin.. and a few days before that from the secretary at the Ulster Architectural Heritage Society in Belfast.
The problem as I see it is that there are not enough local people (now when I say that I mean RootsChatters) out there replying to our posts. We need a lot more RootsChatters in Ireland. A team per Province if not a team per county. The ones I know in the north of Ireland do sterling work. It amazes me where they find the time as most are family people and have various domestic problems like everyone else but they post regularly and give everyone lots of help. The few in the Republic of Ireland are every bit as good as the ones in the north. We could do with three or four times the number of RootsChatters in Ireland than we have at the moment as large numbers of people have Irish ancestors.
Tees, I noticed your comment about Parish Priests. If there was a RootsChatter in his town or in his county a phone call would gee them up a wee bit. I phoned a priest near Ennis this year and that did the trick. The person looking for the information sent me a message telling me she was smiling all day when the postman brought her the details she required. Local knowledge is extremely important ... it does no harm to say "Sorry I can't help but try this person" Today I phoned PRONI as I'm looking for a family of Russian Jews .. some went to Scotland (at the end of the 19th century / beginning of the 20th century) and one appears to have been in Belfast. The guy who answered the phone gave me the name of a Jewish historian in Dublin who has done a lot of research on Jewish families throughout Ireland. Most people when asked to help are usually delighted to offer assistance. Any of you who have travelled to Ireland will probably confirm that if you go to a small village in Ireland and tell them you are there to look for ancestors .. before you know where you are half the village know all about your search and you have several willing helpers. I can't remember who posted the message about a Parish Priest spending a large part of the day driving them around the parish but that is very typical. People will go out of their way to help.
I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of you in Dublin next summer and hope many more post a message to say they are coming too.
Chris
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A BIG ,Thank you! To all who contributed to this thread.
Frustration is a terrible thing,and personal interest added to it can cause mayhem!
There are quite a few people in the same boat on both sides of the discussion,some desparately seeking,some really willing to help,but the thread between seeker and helper can't be established due to dearth of info:
I speak as one who know's,not as an onlooker.
Patience,good humour,plain old fashioned never say die,is the way to go.
Goggy. ;) ;D