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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: Billie Mendav on Thursday 22 June 06 21:40 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to link the families of Thomas and Robert Campbell of Ayr (or Monkton, Newton, St Quivox and Wallacetown depending on date) with the family of Robert Burns the poet.
Thomas Campbell was married around 1760, Robert who I think was his brother married a lady called Julian or Giles Niven in Kirkoswald. I think this lady was related to the Margaret Niven who was married to the Brown family of Robert Burns' mother.
Can anyone help? The dates are so far back and the records so sketchy in the mid 18th century. Has anyone succeeded in putting this Tree together. I would be so grateful for some help.
Thanks, Billie
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Hello Billie,
It is possible that we may have some similarities in the names that we are researching, in particular the Surnames of 'BROWN' / 'CAMPBELL' / 'BURNS' (BURNESS). Also the name of Robert Campbell BROWN (which was my Great, Great Grandfather).
I recommend that you have a look at the Topic which I recently posted, as noted below.
BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,165126.0.html
We know through family documents that we have a connection through Janet BROWN, sister to Agnes (mother of Robert Burns).
Janet BROWN married Alexander HUTCHISON, and in turn their son Samuel HUTCHISON (b.1738) married Jane COWEN (COUAN).
In some family documentation which we have, it states that Samuel HUTCHISON was a full cousin to the poet Robert BURNS.
Then their daughter Janet HUTCHISON (of Burnton, b. abt. 1765-1840) [married- 1786] William BAIRD (of Dalrymple, b. 1761).
Their son Samuel BAIRD (of Maybole, 1787-1850) [married 1809] Helen KEAN (of Wigton).
Then their daughter Janet Hutchison BAIRD (b.1828-1910) [married 1847] Robert Campbell BROWN (b.1826), etc...
However our problem so far has been in proving the direct connection, because of the Birth Dates that are listed for Janet and Agnes BROWN, in relation to the Maternal Family of Robert BURNS (which I have come across on different websites), these dates do not quite coincide with the dates that we have.
I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject.
Perhaps we can assist each other.
Jeanette H.
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This is complicated! I will have to think about the families for a wee while. I think my ancestor may be related to Samuel Brown, via the two Campbell brothers that I know of. Trouble is, on the OPRs only the father's name is given in some cases.
What my grandmother said was that "the lady who was aunt to Robert Burns' family was also aunt to our family" (that is the Campbells of Ayr).
I have an ancestor Thomas Campbell, can't find his marriage but his daughter was born 1766 in Monkton. The family were later in St Quivox, but wait for it, it was the same place, only the parish boundary moved.
I intend to devour the Kirkoswald OPR, I'd just love if I could buy a copy and do it at home.
I don't know of a connection with Ochiltree, but who knows?
I don't know how far out your birth dates are compared to what's on the records, but I wouldn't be too worried about that. People told porkies about their birth dates all the time, and sometimes it's a christening some time after the birth which is recorded. Two brothers may well be christened on the same day which makes them look like twins, but there could be years between them.
One thing which interests me is the similarity between the Christian names in your family and mine at that time - that can be a clue.
I wonder where you are researching from - I'm in Scotland.
Thanks for your reply, I'll look at your postings and see if I can work anything out.
Billie
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Hello Billie,
Just in case you did not receive the Personal Message [PM] I sent, we reside in Victoria, Australia. This does not make it easy when most of my research is connected with Scotland.
I have had some very interesting replies to my Topic 'BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similiarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections. So I must now try to analyse this information.
Jeanette H.
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Does anyone have any information on these surnames with connection to Robert Burns? Armour, Buchanan, Murray, Rough, Miller, Haddow and Young. We were always told that on my Great Grandmother's side of the family there "was a connection to Robert Burns" but we were never told what type of "connection". I don't know anything about Robert Burns or his genealogy to find the connection.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Robert Burns' wife was called Jean Armour, perhaps if you investigate her family it might help. I can tell you she was born in the village of Mauchline in Ayrshire in February 1765, and her parents were James Armour and Mary Smith who were married in December 1761. James Smith was a stone-mason, who built many bridges in the locality.
This might give you something to work on in the meantime. Good luck.
Billie
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Not sure if this helps but I have this information on my Niven tree
Robert burns mother was Agnes Brown. Her brother was Samuel Brown and he lived at a farm on the banks of the R Milton called Balluchneil on the road to Girvan. Robert Niven was a tennant of this farm and while Robbie Burns was at Kirkowald he lived at this farm attending Rogers School with Robert and they shared a bed. In 1786 itis known from private letters that Willie Niven was a good friend of Burns who also lent him money and helped him sell his books.
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Hello Batchen, Thanks for your post re Robert Burns. I have quite a bit of information about Burns, but the actual little nugget that I'm looking for still escapes me. Anyway I will keep looking and I appreciate any help that you kind folks out there can give me.
Regards, Billie Mendav
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Hello Jeanette H,
I am a direct descendant of Janet Brown and Alexander Hutchison through their daughter Margaret, who married Henry Cowan. I came across your post last night and was most interested to read that Janet Brown's sister was Agnes Brown - Robbie Burns' mother. Are you able to tell me about the "family documents" you referred to that inform you that Agnes and Janet were sisters. I've been unable to prove that is the case after looking through OPRs tonight myself.
Anyway, I have quite a bit of information on Margaret Hutchison and family. I'd love to share details with you.
I've only just signed up for rootsweb, so cant send any personal messages yet, but will try once I'm able. I also notice you're in Victoria. I'm in Perth. Strange how we all ended up in Australia.
Regards,
Sean Cowan
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I am a direct descendant of Janet Brown and Alexander Hutchison through their daughter Margaret, who married Henry Cowan. I came across your post last night and was most interested to read that Janet Brown's sister was Agnes Brown - Robbie Burns' mother. Are you able to tell me about the "family documents" you referred to that inform you that Agnes and Janet were sisters. I've been unable to prove that is the case after looking through OPRs tonight myself.
Anyway, I have quite a bit of information on Margaret Hutchison and family. I'd love to share details with you.
I've only just signed up for rootsweb, so cant send any personal messages yet, but will try once I'm able. I also notice you're in Victoria. I'm in Perth. Strange how we all ended up in Australia.
Regards,
Sean Cowan
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I have ancestors matching your Murray, Rough etc. all from Mauchline. My second cousin was told by her mother that she was related to Jean Armour, however we still have been unable to find the connection.
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There may be a relation between Niven and Browns of Islay, so perhaps Islay records may help you find your links?
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Hi there,
I've been tracing my gt grandfathers family and the name Niven on this thread caught my eye.
Does anyone have a link to Janet Niven, born 1811, Kirkmichael, Ayrshire (from census dates) who married James Alexander, born 1797 Kirkmichael, Ayrshire (again from census dates). In 1851 they were living in Kirkbean, Kircudbrightshire, Dumfries and Galloway.
Their grandson Alex Alexander was born on the Island of Coll, Argyllshire after his parents James Alexander and Mary Henderson moved their following the clearances.
Best wishes, Jimmijam
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Jimmijam
Janet Niven (b 3/5/1810 Crawfordston) was the daughter of Alexander Niven (b1779, parish of Maybole) and Ann Gillespie. Janet married 7/7/1834 in Kirkmichael James Alexander (b1797)They had at least 2 twin sons John & Thomas b 1841 in Kirkbean. John married 12/7/1860 in New Luce, Agnes Paterson. Other info - Janet Niven Alexander married Thomas Douglas Nov 1895 in Cape Town and had a son born 1898 in South Africa.
Gordon Niven
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Hi Gordon,
This is the same family. I'll send you a personal message with further information,
Best wishes,
Jimmijam
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You know I dont recognise myself in any of those posts :P
Just to add my two penneth. As a Robert Burns I have always been led to believe that I have the right to wear the Campbell clan tartan as my name connects into that family. I was always told that I was connected to the BURNS tree but I have done some work back and unless the connection is very tenuous I am not. I remember a few years ago a site online actually had a comprehensive tree of Rabbie Burns online.
Rob Burns
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As far as I have always understood from the clans affiliation system- Burns is of Clan Campbell so you are correct- it doesnt mean you ever had campbells in your names or tree branches- it means that when Clan Campbell called for support - the Burns rallied under the Clan campbells leadership- :)
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Batchen thats my understanding also. That said I can also claim a use of the Anderson and the Cameron Tartans as well so I am spoiled for choice.
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I have some information about Armours in Scotland, as I have traced tenatively, Thomas Armour to Ayrshire. HE married a Jeanette Burns. If you are interested, I am in the US and my email is
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Anne,
thanks for your reply however I have as yet no connection to Burns in Scotland
Rob
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Burns Family Tree was available on "scotfamtree" one of his daughters is buried in Whitburn.
Skoosh.
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Hi Jeannette and others,
Like many of you, we were told that we, too, had a family connection to Robbie Burns. We are almost certain that he and or his uncle were at Titwood Farm in Dreghorn/Stewarton area while our Shiels/Shields ancestors were there. But, more interesting is the fact that I am presently going through a shipping container full of documents, plus old Breedon on the Hill (Leicestershire) quarry records (my ggrandfather was John Gillies Shields b. 1857 Stewarton and owner of this quarry) and amongst the documents I have found references to a Hutchison family, whom I am assuming came down from Ayrshire to work at the quarry. J.G. almost, in every case, had Scots working for him. These Hutchisons finally went to live in Diseworth, Leicestershire, but I have yet to locate any present day family members, even though I live relatively close by. I wonder if anyone has any more information on these Hutchisons? I would be eternally grateful for any information!
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Hi again,
I forgot to mention in my first email that we do have some Bairds on our family tree!
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I too am a decendant of the armours. Do you have a Jane hutchison in your line that married Robert Newall Armour? my decendants are Thomas Armour and Jeanette Burns. I am trying to find
a connection back. have been stuck for years. lol/ Would appreciate anything you might have.
My personal email is * Thank you for your time.
Anne Armour Barnett.
Hello Jeanette H,
I am a direct descendant of Janet Brown and Alexander Hutchison through their daughter Margaret, who married Henry Cowan. I came across your post last night and was most interested to read that Janet Brown's sister was Agnes Brown - Robbie Burns' mother. Are you able to tell me about the "family documents" you referred to that inform you that Agnes and Janet were sisters. I've been unable to prove that is the case after looking through OPRs tonight myself.
Anyway, I have quite a bit of information on Margaret Hutchison and family. I'd love to share details with you.
I've only just signed up for rootsweb, so cant send any personal messages yet, but will try once I'm able. I also notice you're in Victoria. I'm in Perth. Strange how we all ended up in Australia.
Regards,
Sean Cowan
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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi, I am also researching an ARMOUR family which may have had connections to Robbie Burns wife. Have found the family in the 1841 and 1851 census, living in Greenock, Renfrewshire.
Names are: John Galbreath born 1809-1811 married Margaret ARMOUR b 1816-1817 in Paisley. John was a joiner/journeyman. In the 1841 census there is an Agnes ARMOUR b about 1791 mentioned, I wondered if she might be margarets mother or aunt?? I cannot find anything else about this family in scotland. Margaret appears to have emigrated to New Zealand in 1874 to live with her son John and his family in Dunedin. Family legend says that there is a connection to Robbie burns..... research found that Jean Armour (Robbies wife) had an uncle she stayed with in Paisley.
John and Margaret Galbreath (nee Armour) had children with names Agnes, Janet, Lachlan, Margaret and John. Margarets death cert says she was born in Paisley. she married John Galbreath in Greenock.
Any info much appreciated.
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Hi sceahlott
There are a number of references to Jean Armour being sent off by parents to stay with family in Paisley.
It may not be family on the Armour (father James Armour) side though. I found this google book entry (link shrunk) www.rootschat.com/links/01l2s/ Should Auld Acquaintance: Discovering the Woman Behind Robert Burns
There is mention there of Jean, pregnant by Robert Burns, being sent off to the home of her Uncle Andrew, a carpenter, and Aunt Elizabeth, her mother's oldest sister (mother Mary Smith) in Paisley.
There is more detail there. Book very readable!
Monica :)
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This book ref www.rootschat.com/links/01l2t/ Robert Burns: The Patriot Bard gives Jean's uncle and aunt as Andrew Purdie and Elizabeth Smith.
Monica
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Hi, thanks for the information, very interesting book.