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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: Tiffaney on Friday 07 July 06 07:25 BST (UK)
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Hi all..Could anyone plse do a lookup for Christina Sutherland born Dunbeath, Caithness, 16 November 1838. Parents William Sutherland & Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland. On the IGI there is another Christina Sutherland born same date & place but dying younger than my g.grandmother who passed away in Ashburton, New Zealand in 1912. She came to New Zealand in 1867 on the vessel "Lincoln.
A witness at her marriage was a James Sutherland, farmer, Selwyn, NZ. She was married in the home of a Mr Sutherland.
She is a big mystery & I've been trying for over 2yrs to find her siblings & details of her parents.
Thank you so much for anyone who may be able to help our family.
regards, Tiffaney.
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Hi Tiffaney
You should have a look at the 1841 Census on FreeCen (which as the name implies, is free to search). The 1841 Census for Caithness is now 100% complete (85% transcribed to date on the 1851 Census) at www.freecen.org.uk
In respect of the IGI entry that you refer to, the information has been submitted by a member, it is not an actual extract from the OPRs (Old Parish Registers) and as such, would have to be verified.
Did she marry in NZ? Do you have your Catherine's parents confirmed on her marriage/ death certs in NZ?
Final question! Have you seen the ship's manifest for the 'Lincoln'? Did she travel alone or with family?
Regards.
Monica
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Dear Monica, Thank you for your reply to the above query.
I have been unable to find anything concrete on the Caithness 1841 Freecensus re Christina Sutherland b. 1838 or her mother Christina & father William but I will go through both 1841 & 1851 again.
I found Christina on the manifest of passengers arriving on the "Lincoln" in 1867 which ties in with an entry written about her arriving shortly before her marriage to William McLauchlan on 4 June 1868. There were no other family mentioned aboard. She was no spring chicken when marrying & occupation was 'cook'.
I gathered her marriage details from Christchurch Public Library.
Death Cert:
No. 921 Folio no. 1912/482 ref: 5-0134079 Christina McLauchlan nee Sutherland/
When & where died: 19 January, 1912 at Lagmhor (son-in-laws)
Sex & age: Female...76yrs.
Name & Surname of father: William Sutherland. farmer
Name & if known, Maiden Surname of mother: Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland.
Religion: Presbyterian.
Where born: Dunbeath, Caithness.
How long in New Zealand: 44 yrs.
etc.etc.
Signature of informant: J.McLauchlan son of deceased. Waterton.
After going through freecen again what would be best to do next.
regards, Tiffaney
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Tiffaney
I'm a bit stuck here too! From FreeCen 1841, I cannot see any Sutherland family groups with a William and Christina (and variants) who have a child Christina in the household. There are some entries where there is a William father but mother's name is different and vice versa (as I'm sure you have found when you have gone throught it).
Were these parents' names also on Christina's NZ marriage cert.? Sometimes, depending on the informant, the information given when reporting deaths can be incorrect (children may not remember the names of their g/parents).
I've had a quick look on Scotlands People, the official Scottish pay to view BMD and Census site. There are no death entries coming up for a female (any first name) Sutherland, other name Sutherland, any age, anywhere in Scotland between 1855-1955. Official Registration began in Scotland in 1855, so it could be that Christina's mother died before this date and no on-line record exists.
In which case, you are back to the censuses. Certainly if the family remained in Caithness, at least in 1841, there is no record of them with those parents' names. I would open up your birth years for Christina, if she died in 1912 aged 76, then her birth year would be c.1835-36. The IGI submitted entry may just be a little bit of a 'red herring'.
Monica
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Monica Thank you again, especially looking up Scotlands people very generous & for your time.
I will send away for a photocopy of Christina & William's marriage cert. The record I have came from the library & I've heard a photocopy is best. (more detailed). Will take approx. a week.
Have written to Dunbeath Heritage & they are going to look into her for me too.
Back to census's again with your suggestion re birth date 1835-36.
Will keep you informed if I find out more.
In appreciation,
Tiffaney
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Hi, just had another thought there was also another Christina Sutherland, born same date, place & with the same parent's names only she died much younger. (30's)? I can't remember where I found her..most probably IGI..not impossible I know but she doesn't appear to com up on census's either.
Cheers,
Di
ps going to make a tall black coffee before I go potty!!!
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Hi, I'm looking for my great great grandfather, William Sutherland. I know he was born in Latheron, Caithness, in 1845, and that his parents were Angus Sutherland and Janet Sutherland (née Sutherland). I've looked up the 1851 census on FreeCEN, but I think he must be in the 15% not done. :) I've also paid on ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk and used genesconnected.co.uk but no one seems to have him!
If anyone could look up the 1851 census for me, I'd be most grateful. I'm mainly after his parents' ages in 1851, and whether or not he had siblings.
Thanks. :)
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Hi Ostler,
I have been having the same trouble for over 2yrs now. Just hang in there. This is a great site with so many going out of their way to help..I have been absolutely gob smacked by all I have learnt & the generosity of it's members.
Have you tried looking at Oursutherlands.com a new site featuring Sutherlands from Orkney & Caithness. Neil Sutherland ,whose site it is is adding new pages at the mo' but you can still go to the forum & leave a query.
I am trying to go to more recent deaths & marriages in the hope that I may have a break through. Perhaps you could do the same...you might find siblings that way.
We will get there in the end, 8)
Cheers, Tiffaney
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Hi Ostler,
Just had another thought...why not start a new subject with your names on it. Should get added interest that way.
Cheers,
Tiffaney.
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Hi again Monica,
Marriage certificate exactly the same Christina Sutherland nee Sutherland so guess it must have been Sutherland. Still optomistic,
Cheers, Tiffaney
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Hi Tiffaney
Missed your last couple of posts - for some reason I am not getting alerts on some of my old posts. Picked up your last post by chance.
You now have confirmed in both Christina's marriage and death certs. her parents' details.............and therein lies the puzzle!
I've spent some time going back on all the details, and this where I am at:
From 1841 Free Cen, the following two families are the only possibilities that stand out in Caithness, assuming she remained there after her birth:
Family 1
SUTHERLAND William age 40 Mason b. Outside Census County
SUTHERLAND Christian age 40 b. Outside Census County (1841)
SUTHERLAND Mary age 15 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Elizabeth age 15 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Anne age 13 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Alexander age 10 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND John age 9 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 4 b. Caithness
Address: Brehungy, Latheron-Caithness
Two issues with this family. Father is down as Mason and we have a Catherine aged 4 rather than a Christina. However, this is the family for the children of a William Sutherland and Christina SUTHERLAND With the exception of Catherine/Christina, the children match those showing on IGI (although the IGI submitted entries are not complete). I've also looked at child Ann's marriage cert in 1855 (good year for info on certs!), mother's maiden name certainly Sutherland.
I've got the family in 1851. By 1861, Catherine, a domestic servant, is showing as younger than she is and is living unmarried with her parents, all the other children have left home. Cannnot find mother's death, but she died between 1861 and 1880. There are no Sutherland/Sutherland deaths showing on SP (which I find strange given it's a common name particularly in those parts and there are lots of couples who both have that name).
Her father William died in 1880, a widower, and in the Poorhouse (registered Pauper).
Family 2
SUTHERLAND William age 40 Farmer b.Caithness
SUTHERLAND Janet age 35 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald age 13 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Margaret age 11 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Alexander b. 7 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND John age 5 b. Caithness
SUTHERLAND Christina age 2 Caithness
SUTHERLAND Catharine age 3m b. Caithness
Address: Shinvall, Latheron-Caithness
The only other possible family that I can find in 1841. Again some issues, mother is down as Janet (Bruce). However, this William is down as farmer which fits the description in Christina's M/D certs. The fact that Christina's M& D certs clearly state Christina Sutherland, makes me think this is not her family.
So where now from here? If I was speculating, I would wonder whether the Catherine showing with a William and Christina Sutherland was actually your Christina. She left Scotland in 1867, I wonder if this may be around the time her mother died (can't prove it given that her death details have probably been mistrascribed and are not showing under Sutherland/Sutherland).
Next stage, I would try to find the marriage cert in Scotland if it exists of a Catherine Sutherland with those parents to at least be able to discount her/family.
Also, given that we now know that this father William died in 1880, I would check what Poor Relief Records exist for him. I don't know what the Poor Relief Records are like for Caithness and what periods are available. If lucky, and they can be found, they can provide a wealth of personal information not normally available and as such might provide further clues/confirmation.
Regards.
Monica
PS: the death details of a Christina Sutherland (parents William and Christina Sutherland) which have been submitted to IGI are completely incorrect. There is one death in 1869 of a Christina Sutherland in Edinburgh. Wrong father and mother is a Christina but a different maiden name. Perfect example of how submitted entries on IGI can just be plain wrong!
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There are 8 marriage entries in Latheron between 1861 - 70 on SP for Catherine Sutherlands. These match those on IGI for the same period. Some kind person has already submitted bride's parent details. No match - no William/Christina parents show. Of the 1870 - 1875 entries on IGI, the bride's age is wrong for it to be the Catherine we are searching for.
Regards.
Monica
Remember though, this is only for Caithness!
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Hi Ostler
I'm carrying on today with a Sutherland theme!
I've found your William age 6 in the 1851 Census living at home with parents Angus age 45 and mother Janet age 35, all showing as born in Berriedale. If you PM me with an email address, happy to send you further details.
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Very appreciative of your marvellous help.
On ship coming out, marriage , death cert & MI Christina's name was always Christina but that's not to say it was originally. After she married William McLauchlan in 1867 there only daughter born 1871 was called Catherine sooo perhaps she was christened Catherine.
Birthdate 1835-1838 16 Nov.
Will study your findings again. You may have knocked down my brick wall at last..that would be fantastic.
:D Thank you,
Tiffaney
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Tiffaney
I think at this stage it would be worthwhile you following up what records there are for William Sutherland's Poor Relief. Might be lucky. Have a look at this post here on the RootsChat Caithness board re the Poorhouse that William died at in 1880: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Latheron/Latheron.shtml. It's looking hopeful, there are certainly records for the period we're interested in.
If you can let me have an email address to use, happy to send you the details on the certs. I viewed.
Regards.
Monica
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I forgot to say, please use the PM facility to send me an email address.
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Another thought Monica after rereading your posting.
Christina married William from the home of a Mr Sutherland West Town Belt
Christchurch New Zealand on on 3 June 1868. Witness was a James Sutherland,farmer, Selwyn. Would they also have these details recorded in Scotland somewhere.
An Archibald Cook Sutherland comes up a few time along the trail in New Zealand.
Christina & Williams children were:
Willian Sutherland b.5.5.1869 d. July 1869
Catherine b.5.51871
John b.29.7.1873
William Archibald Cook b.28.6.1876
Some of our relatives say she was married from the home of her father but can't find when he came out etc. which I feel was most probably before she did if he did.
John born 1873 was witness to a wedding of a George Alexander Sutherland in 1902 Christchurch NZ where the parents of the groom were Archibald Cook Sutherland & Barbara nee Munro.
Witness John McLauchlan, farmer, Waterton.(my grandfather).
Archibald Cook Sutherland surely must tie in earlier in Scotland.
Cheers,
Tiffaney
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I've had a quick look at this site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/ScotlandMiddleNamesIGI.h
tm. In Caithness, there is only one use of Cook Sutherland (where Cook is the middle name:
BELL COOK SUTHERLAND Christening: 12 DEC 1822 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
Parents: Father: JAMES SUTHERLAND
My initial thoughts are that the COOK name could also be connected to William Mclauchlan. Re their children's names:
1. William Sutherland b.5.5.1869 d. July 1869 - named after Christina's father
2. Catherine b.5.51871 - jury's out, although what was the name of William McLauchlan's mother?
3. John b.29.7.1873 - do you know who this was in memory of?
4. William Archibald Cook b.28.6.1876 - William again, which we know why. Archilbald Cook maybe related to William McL's family?
You have details of William McL's parents from his marriage cert, maybe the names on it would help. What do you know of William McL. Was he born in Scotland or in NZ?
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There is an entry on IGI for the following marriage:
ARCHIBALD COOK SUTHERLAND Marriages: Spouse: BARBARA MUNRO
Marriage: 07 DEC 1865 Lairg, Sutherland, Scotland
By the way, our favorite couple to be Christina's parents both came from Sutherland.
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Thanks again Monica,
That was my first thought too that Archibald Cook may have come from the mcLauchlans but then I began to think perhaps it was Sutherland after William & Christina's 1st boy died William Sutherland & naming their last son William Archibald Cook.
William McLauchlan (Christina's husband) was born 3rd June 1836 in Pomarium West Church Parish, Perth, fourth child of John McLauchlan(born 1801, Dunkeld, Perth) ploughman & Margery Mills/Milne born Cargill ,his spouse. He was baptised six day later by Rev. Dr. William Aird Thomson, minister of Middle Church Parish, Perth. He had a brother John born 1828 two sisters Ann b. 1825 & Mey b. 1831. In 1839 James was born.
1831 family lived at Hillyland NE Perth. 1836 lived Friarton or Moncrieffe Island in the River Tay. In 1851 in Evelick, Parish of Kilspendie, Perthshire listed:
John McLauchlan (snr) Head widower 48yrs. Farm Labourer
May daughter 18yrs
James son 12yrs scholar.
William came to New Zealand on the Cornubia 1855 Lyttelton with his father, sister Ann, husband & 3 children, & James. John had come out around 1851. Mey arrived later with her husband, 2children in 1857 "Glentanner".
RE: Christina & Williams marriage cert. they were both full age, no parents mentioned. Witness James Sutherland, Farmer, Selwyn. when & where married 4 june 1868 House of Mr Sutherland South Town Belt. Death cert had parents names.
Thanks,
Tiffaney
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Hi Monica. me again.
(1)John, William's brother was named after their father John McL.
(2) William's mother was Marjery (May/Mey) Mills or Milne both spellings on baptism records.
Whats that!!! Incredible!! Parents came from Sutherland. Belong to HH-Suth where none have been able to come up with anything concrete , certainly not from lack of trying & here you are with Sutherland.
Oh Boy, this site you gave me.
Yipee!!
Tiff
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Hi Ostler
I'm carrying on today with a Sutherland theme!
I've found your William age 6 in the 1851 Census living at home with parents Angus age 45 and mother Janet age 35, all showing as born in Berriedale. If you PM me with an email address, happy to send you further details.
Regards.
Monica
This is the first of me coming across this... thanks! Is there something up with the board? I'm not getting notifications of new posts to threads it seems... PM on its way. ;)
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Hi Monica, Sorry to be a bug bear but seem to be no further ahead.
Do you think it might be worthwhile to pay someone to search her relatives for me. Have been trying so long with such marvellous help espec. from you & Ian Sutherland & great members of rootschat & genenesreunited & former Highlandhearts members am beginning to think this brick wall is insurmountable. Drat!!! Drat!!!. Written to Dunbeath Heritage, left messages on Caithness org. plus so many other sites since I started can't remember them all.... wihout success.
Will find her siblings etc eventually but hope time is on my side.
Cheers Tiffaney.
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I'm not much further ahead either. However, if Angus' parents are Niel Sutherland and Janet Bain, how can I find out this is true? I've searched on ScotlandsPeople for an Angus Sutherland born between 1800 and 1805 in Latheron and I get nothing (he was born Oct 1803), and if I change the parameters to "All Parishes" but add in his parents name, or even just one, I get nothing. :-\ I've searched for Niel Sutherlands born in Latheron and there was one born in 1767 (making him 36 when Angus was born), and one born in 1778 (making him 25 when Angus was born). How can I tell which one - if any - is the right one? I searched for Neil Sutherlands born before 1803 and there weren't any until about 1730, which is obviously far too early to be Angus' father.
Any help would be appreciated. Even if it's a suggestion of what to do rather than looking for me, I don't mind.
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OK bugger it, I gave in and searched for Angus Sutherland on ScotlandsPeople without putting in any parents names, and also limiting it to 1803. I got one result, and his parents are Angus Sutherland and Hellen McKenzie, he was born 1st October 1803 in Clyne. This just adds to the confusion. :'(
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The Mormon's site has this Angus:
Born 1 Oct 1803 Brora, Sutherland, Scotland
Died 25 Sep 1892 Brora, Sutherland, Scotland
Parents Angus Sutherland and Helen MacKenzie.
The only thing about this Angus is he has a middle name; Amos. :o
In the same search I got the above Angus Sutherland as being christened on 1 Oct 1803 in Clyne.
Also in the search was an Angus Sutherland christened 8 Oct 1803 in Latheron, with only a father mentioned: Niel Sutherland. ::)
I really don't know what to make of all this. :'(
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Hi Ostler
Just to avoid anyone repeating searches already done, I've included a link to your other post on the family: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,198968.0.html
You have Angus's 1888 death cert which shows parents's as Neil and Janet Bain. This cert. also includes details of Angus's two wives, Janet Gow and Janet Sutherland. Janet Sutherland being the mother to William. A cousin of Angus's from Dunbeath (also fitting what you know of him) reported his death.
In the area of submitted entries on IGI, you have:
NIEL SUTHERLAND Marriages: Spouse: JANET BAIN
Marriage: 17 DEC 1802 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
and an entry for Angus:
ANGUS SUTHERLAND Christening: 08 OCT 1803 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
Parents: Father NEIL SUTHERLAND
and probable entries for Angus's marriages:
ANGUS SUTHERLAND Marriages: Spouse: JANET GOW
Marriage: 19 DEC 1833 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
And a further submitted entry for the second marriage:
ANGUS SUTHERLAND Marriages: Spouse: JANET SUTHERLAND
Marriage: 14 APR 1843 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
Regards.
Monica :)
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Yeah but what about Niel Sutherland's birth, how can I tell which - if any - is him? :-\ :D
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Hi Ostler
Hard to answer that :D Actual records in the period you are now looking at begin to get thin on the ground.
There may be other ways to get more information. For example, you have two people living with Angus at various points. Firstly in 1851 census entry I posted previously, you have a cousin Charlotte Gunn who could be relevant. Also, from Angus's death cert. in 1888, a cousin Alexander Sutherland from the Post Office at Dunbeath reported his death.
I've found the cousin, the Post Master at Dunbeath on the 1881 Census. From that entry I think I have found cousin Alexander and family in the 1851/61 Censuses:
1851:
Alexander Sutherland 36, merchant grocer, b. Brundall
Mary Sutherland 32, b. Latheron
Alexander Sutherland 3 b. Brundall
Christian Sutherland 2 b. Brundall
William Sutherland 1 b. Brundall
Donald Gunn* 13, nephew, b. Brundall
Mary Sutherland 20, servant
Address: Balnabruich, Latheron
* Gunn name once more
And in 1861:
Alex Sutherland 45, Postmaster
Meary Sutherland 40
Alex Sutherland 13
Christina Sutherland 12
William Sutherland 10
Robert Sutherland 9
James Sutherland 8
Lucy Sutherland 7
Neil Sutherland 3
Address: Balnabruich Or Dunbeath, Latheron
Just some thoughts which may help :)
Regards.
Monica
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I just realised that Angus' second wife Janet Sutherland's (née Sutherland) mother was Catherine Gunn. ??? The plot thickens!
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Then on the Mormons' site I discovered Katharine Gunn married an Alexander Sutherland, 9 Dec 1803 in Wick. ::)
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What were the names of Janet's parents, Charlotte Gunn and ? I'm not so concerned about Charlotte showing as 'cousin' in 1851, I've seen stranger relationships to head being shown on censuses :)
I looked yesterday on the 1841 census indexes for a Neil Sutherland in Latheron, and there were two. First born in 1766 living with a Mary (or was it Christina?) b. 1801 probably a daughter I thought. Another born in the 1780s (I'm doing all this from memory as you've probably gathered!) but I think he was married to a Janet Campbell and died in his 90s post official reg., father a John Sutherland. The 1841 Census is not the most ideal to extract much detailed info from unfortunately also there's the possibility that Angus's father died pre 1841.
I think the Postmaster from Dunbeath might be a better avenue for you follow to try and find Neil Sutherland's family.
Regards.
Monica
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Ostler
Long day for me today.....brain's tired. I've just remembered that the 'cousin' in 1851 was Charlotte not Catherine. I also remembered checking for marriages on IGI and there was one for a Charlotte Gunn marrying a Hugh Bain (thinking here of Angus's mother Janet Bain).
The point to remember with IGI is that even though you are seeing similar names, they may not necessarily be 'yours' due to high frequency of particular surnames in certain counties (Sutherland in Caithness is a good example!) and as such the entries may not be relevant to your line.
Monica
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Catherine (Katharine?) Gunn and John Sutherland, I think I've found their marriage on familysearch.org:
22 Jan 1796 in Latheron.
OK so "follow" the avenue of Angus/his wife's cousin Alexander in the post office... by doing what exactly? ???
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Just a suggestion given the lack of info at this stage on Neil, Angus's father. If you found Alexander Sutherland's DC with parents' names, (a possible brother or sister to Neil) you may be able to find out more info on them if available than you have found to date on Neil. Sometimes when researching one person, you can find that although there is nothing on IGI about them, some of their siblings do show on the OPRs.
Monica
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Thanks ever so much for all your help, it's most appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on. :)
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Hi Ostler,
Just spotted this post too...I really should look around more!
The Charlotte Gunn (cousin) in 1861 is as follows in the 1851 and 1841 census returns:
Piece: SCT1851/38 Place: Latheron -Caithness Enumeration District: 19
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Folio: 0 Page: 9 Schedule: 33
Address: Borgy
SUTHERLAND Donald Head M M 37 Fisherman & Farmer 3 Acres Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Janet Wife M F 36 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Donald Son - M 9 Scholar Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND John Son - M 7 Scholar Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Charles Son - M 5 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Margaret Dau - F 3 - Caithness - Latheron
SUTHERLAND Robert Son - M 1 - Caithness - Latheron
GUNN Charlotte Ma-Law U F 60 Pauper (House Servant) Caithness - Latheron
and 1841 census:
Piece: SCT1841/38 Place: Latheron -Caithness Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Berriedale
Folio: 0 Page: 9
Address: Lower Borgue
GUNN Charlotte F 50 Crofter Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald M 25 Shoemaker Caithness
ARMSTRONG Janet F 25 Caithness
I looked up her death too, it is:
Charlotte Gunn 84yrs d. 15 Apr 1864 Borguie, Berriedale Fa: Robert Gunn (dec) Mo: Betty Grant (dec) Old Age Inf: Donald Sutherland (son-in-law) present.
There were no more deaths of a Charlotte Gunn until 1899. So I am pretty sure this is her. It means that she never married, but had an illegitimate daughter Janet to a fellow called Armstrong.
I haven't figured out where she fits in yet with John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn (Janet's parents) but I am sure that she will slot into place eventually. I "assume" that her father Robert Gunn is Catherine Gunn's brother or uncle, I have seen stranger relationships on the census returns.
Hope this helps :)
Jenny
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GUNN Charlotte F 50 Crofter Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald M 25 Shoemaker Caithness
ARMSTRONG Janet F 25 Caithness
There were no more deaths of a Charlotte Gunn until 1899. So I am pretty sure this is her. It means that she never married, but had an illegitimate daughter Janet to a fellow called Armstrong.
You sure that Janet Armstrong isn't just Donald Sutherland's wife, but for some reason with her maiden name written down? Or maybe Donald and Janet weren't married at this point, as they don't seem to have any children yet. Food for thought. :)
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That is exactly what I think, I think they weren't married yet, but eventually got married as per the later census. The Donald Sutherland in question is the son-in-law mentioned on Charlotte Gunn's death certificate, so he did marry her daughter Janet. I suppose whe may have been married first to a Mr Armstrong and then widowed?? But her mother Charlotte is always down as unmarried in all her census returns and on her death, so I suspect that Janet was an illigitimate child.
Anyway not sure where she fits in yet anyway, so might not be very relevant ;)
Jenny
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1841
BELL Sutherland 1781 Caithness Latheron
Christina Sutherland SAYS COULD BE GUNN 1811 Caithness
Donald Sutherland 1811 Scotland
1841
Christina Sutherland
25
Est 1816
Caithness
Halkirk
Caithness
Spittal
Parish Number 37
Tianah Gow 14
Christina Sutherland 25
Mary Sutherland 3
Robert Sutherland 30
William Sutherland 1
1841
Christina Sutherland
3
Est 1838
Caithness
Christina Sutherland 3
Donald Sutherland 45
Helen Sutherland 40
Henrietta Sutherland 15
Janet Sutherland 15
Kenneth Sutherland 12
Mary Sutherland 8
William Sutherland 1
1851
Christina Sutherland
66
Est 1785
Aunt
Halkirk Caithness
Alexander Gunn 38
Betty Gunn 38
Catherine Gunn 3
Margaret Gunn 1
Christina Sutherland 66
sylvia
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First of all there is a Sutherlands public family tree on ancestry under the name of blacksabbeth
if you are not this person then i will get details for you
surnames
gunn
elliot
NEIL SUTHERLAND JANET BAIN
================================
Janet Sutherland
F John Sutherland M Catherine Gunn
Berriedale Latheron Caithness
D 17 Nov 1900
Achnacraig Berriedale Latheron Caithness
SYLVIA
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Ummm yeah that's me. :)
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Hi can any one tell me if these tie in to your area of research?
The 1841 census has William, a farmer, with Ann and their five sons all at Balnabruich, with a Hellen SUTHERLAND aged 20 a female servant. The next two places enumerated also have SUTHERLANDs.
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
This note was on Rootsweb, but where is Ann in 1861?
Ann Gordon and William Sutherland married in 1829 in Latheron, Caithness.
At that time Ann was living at Corriechoich, just north of Kildonan at the foot of Maiden Pap. After her marriage she and William lived at Balnabruich, Dunbeath, Caithness and there had eight sons. She went out to New Zealand in 1862 after the death of her husband taking her younger sons
with her. The elder sons had already gone to New Zealand.
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Hi Kiwicol, not one of mine unfortunately...Sutherland's are pretty common up there ::)
Good luck with the search :)
Jenny
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Not mine either, that I'm aware of, sorry!
Hi Jen! ;D
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http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=27900
may help a bit
sylvia
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http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/Search.pl
or try
http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/Search.pl
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Hi all,
Does anyone have anymore info. on the Sutherland family who came out to New Zealand in 1864...it was mentioned that some of the older boys came out to NZ earlier. My Christina S born 1838 Dunbeath, came out in 1867 & stayed with Sutherlands in Christchurch until her marriage from their home in June 1868. James Sutherland (farmer-Selwyn) was a witness at her marriage.
Thank you Tiffaney
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Are these the Sutherlands of Ngaipu in New Zealand?
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Hi Olster...sorry think not.....mine more Canterbury area NZ.
Are u Olster on Missing Links??
Tiffaney
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Yep. :)
Check this site out, although I don't know how relevant it'll be:
http://www.badbeafamilies.com
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Ostler, your family site is one of the best I have seen.......my grateful thanks for allowing me to view. It is now in my favourites. Oh How I wish, but sadly do not think our Sutherlands are connected... although several of the names are the same. I was hoping to see the name William Archibald Cook amongst your ancestors but alas not.
Very much appreciated,
Tiff (Di)
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It's not mine; but I'm related to the family who made it. ;) I'm also featured on the site, although mainly my ancestors. ;D
Who knows, maybe there's a connection somewhere waiting to be discovered. :)
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Ostler...love your optimism.......only way to be!! Would be fab. to find a connection or even a hint of one after all these years of searching espec. as I want to go to Dunbeath soon.
Tiff :)
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You should visit Badbea on your way up... it's on the main (only!) road to Dunbeath and is signposted. It's such a poignant spot, made more poignant from a personal view to know my family were cleared to there. :(
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You should visit Badbea on your way up... it's on the main (only!) road to Dunbeath and is signposted. It's such a poignant spot, made more poignant from a personal view to know my family were cleared to there. :(
Thank you for that...will do...any more suggestions more than welcome....Orkney is on the list also.
Tiff
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Latheron Cemetery. ;) Really anywhere you stop along the A9 all the way up to Wick, Thurso etc, you can't go wrong! I'm planning on visiting again during the summer. When are you thinking of going?
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Hi there....
have sent you a p/m with some of my plans...to be finalised asap.
Tiffaney
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some sutherland and rutherford stories on this site
sylvia
http://www.electricscotland.com/newzealand/biographies.htm
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I wonder if JenClark has seen that site?
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Hey Buddy,
Great minds hey ;)
Just had a look but none of mine unfortunately...
Jen
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Zomg! Hivemind! ;)
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Ah Bryce, you make me giggle ;D
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Then my work here is done! :D
*flies into the night with cape*
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;D
I'm going to stop destroying this thread now and have some dinner, chat later mate..
Jen
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jen i had you in mind with the rutherford line,i had not realized how time had marched on.
sylvia
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Hi Kiwicol
Re ANN GORDON & WILLIAM SUTHERLAND
They are on my family tree. Yes they came here to New Zealand, and I am a descendant 4 generations on.
Bill Sutherland
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hiya, i have been doing my family tree and on my Mothers side William Sutherland born 1841 i believe and husband of Mary Sutherland from Caithness are related to me.