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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: ninkynoo on Thursday 20 July 06 12:07 BST (UK)
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Could someone be kind enough to have a look on the PR's for the marriage of James Venables and Sarah ? ,I think they may have married around 1805 in Cheshunt .
They went on to have a son called William in 1807/8 b Cheshunt .
Many Thanks
Lin
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Do you by any chance have a Richard Venables b1838 in Cheshunt?
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Hi
I am not sure ,but will get all the Venables paperwork out and check .
I think a lot of the Venables family from Cheshunt are all related in some way as they all seem to be at Goffs Oak area .
But ..there are so many of them ??? ???
I definately have Harriet b 1843 who is the daughter of William Venables and Charlotte Ballard .Off for a quick trawl.
Regards
Lin
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Hi
Richard is the son of George Venables b1805 and Elizabeth Ballard b1805.
I have recently contacted a very nice man in Canada who is related to one of Richards brothers (David b1828).
He and I think that there is a link between the two families ,but it is finding the missing link .
Possibly George b 1805 and William b1807/8 are brothers.
The IGI states parents as James and Sarah which is why I am trying to get this PR .
Hope this makes sense.
Lin
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George Venables and William Venables were brothers who married sisters, Elizabeth and Charlotte Ballard - daughters of William and Mary Ballard. George and William were the sons of George and Elizabeth Venables. George and Elizabeth have the following children: John b. 1824, George b. 1826, David b. 1828, Charles b. 1830, Emma b. 1833, James b. 1836, Richard b. 1838, Sarah b. 1840, Ann Maria b. 1843, William b. 1845, Alfred b. 1847. Somehow this line dates back to John Venables b. 1725 - d. 1807 who married Isabella Ettridge (Ethridge). Haven't got that link yet.
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Hi again from Canada: I have scant information on James Venables and Sarah from Cheshunt. Their children are:
Sarah C. 7 Feb 1813, Charles C. 16 Jul 1815, Ann C. 15 Feb 1818, Jonathan C. 27 Jun 1819, Jane C. 17 Jun 1821, Samuel C. 19 Oct 1823.
James may have married a second time. I have found James with Mary. Their children: Thomas C. 11 Feb 1827, James C. 6 Sep 1829. No William.
The William I have was C. 2 May 1784 m. 17 Feb 1829 to Charlotte Ballard b. 1805. William was the son or George and Elizabeth Venables as was my ancestor, George Venables. If you check the IGI Batches for Cheshunt, you will be able to find the connection. Hope this helps.
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Are you sure that is the correct date for Williams birth as i have him in the census as married to Charlotte and born around 1808-1811 whichever one is the nearest.
You say William who was married to Charlotte was born 1784 ,he is not the William in the census as this one was born much later.
The only Williams I can find are William s o James and Sarah bp 10/1/1808 Cheshunt and William bp 11/11/1809 s o Samuel and Charlotte both bp Cheshunt.
Looks like a trip to Herts RO is in order to clear this up.
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Thanks for your reply Lin. It is confusing with so many names the same in the same family. Let me know if you find the right person, so I can change my info. I can't seem to find any info on the Ettridges other than James and Jane Farrin Ettridge. There is a big brick wall to get any further back. Other descendents have been researching these same people and have met that same wall. Happy hunting.........
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Heya guys,
I'm confused, because i thought George Venables b.c1805 and brother William b.c1808 parents were James Venables and Sarah.
Am i wrong?
Hollie
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Heya,
I've just gone through my info and this is what i have:
Brother's George and William Venables....had parents James venables (poss died 1848) and wife Sarah b.c1776 Wadesmill and poss died 1865. Now, their children were:
Mary Ann Venables c.27.5.1804
George Venables c.17 11 1805 - married Elizabeth Venables
William Venables c.10,1,1808 - Married Charlotte Ballard 17.2.1829
James Venables c.6.5.1810
Sarah c.7.2.1813
Charles c.16.7.1815
Ann c.13.2.1818 - Married James Dyson 1850 (have children)
Johnathan c.27.6.1819
Samuel c.19.10.1823
Regards
Hollie
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Hi Hollie and fellow lost souls .
I have spent an evening trying to sort this one out.Venables everywhere and all with similar names.Sat up to the wee small hours and came to the same conclusion as Hollie.George and William must have been the children of James and Sarah.
Cannot find any info on the marriage ,as Sarah came from Wades Mill perhaps the marriage took place there circa 1803.
I have not got the time to get over to Herts RO at the moment and there are no records online for Wades Mill.
What with Brothers marrying sisters ect it is a pickle .
One thing I did find was Charlotte Ballard had a daughter Caroline born 9/10/1825 Cheshunt before she married William Venables b 1808 .Caroline is down on the IGI as Caroline Ballard ,mother Charlotte Ballard ,father Thomas Sapewouth.
Now hers is where it becomes confusing again ,Caroline married a John Aldridge b 1819 Braughin Herts ( I believe but am willing to be corrected ,that Aldridge is a form of Eldridge ).
Off to rest my weary eyes and hope someone who is visiting Herts RO may discover who James and Sarah belong to .
Lin
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Hi Lin: I have been doing exactly as you, and keep going around and around. I do agree that James and Sarah are the more likely parents of your William and my George. I also discovered Charlotte's daughter Caroline, some time ago. I'm no sure if Charlotte was married before William or if Caroline was illegimate. Each branch of every Venable family seems to have kids of the same name which makes it even harder to research. Do you have a date of death for William? I have him living with son Benjamin & Elizabeth in 1881 at Pan Tile Hall. Also, you may have noticed a grandchild, William Hills b. 1854 living with William & Charlotte in 1861. This would be the son of a married daughter (I assume) - perhaps Jane. I haven't really got that far yet. Anyway, thanks for getting in touch. I'll keep on digging at this end.
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If we keep digging at this rate we should meet up 5.000 feet under the Atlantic ....do either of you need the siblings of Charlotte and Elizabeth Ballard ??.
Oh I wish the Cheshunt PR's were on disc ...I'd be first in the queue.
My Grandson and me were looking at Elizabeth and George and thier children today and decided Elizabeth must have been an amazing woman.
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Hi Lin: I would love to have George and William's children to compare with what I have. Also any other children you may have floating around. You're right about Elizabeth having a tough life. She was left a widow with a huge family at a very early age. I have also found her with 2 grand daughters - Ellen and Emily - aged 1 and 2, in 1851, but they disappear after that. As they were Venables, they must have been the children of one of the sons, and what happened to them after this is a mystery. I'm still looking, but not finding. Of course, her son David, I know about, since he is my direct ancestor. I even have his picture, if you're interested. Well, back at it. Nice to know that I'm not the only one pulling out my hair.....Anne
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Hi Anne and Hollie
William Ballard and Mary's children that I have found are:
John 1790 Cheshunt
Anne bp3/2/1792
Charlotte
Elizabeth
James bp9/9/1798 Cheshunt
Thomas bp 13/9/1801 Cheshunt
Have looked for a marriage for them and the nearest one in the time frame is in Epping ,but as it is only a brain storm I have not put that in my tree.I also have a sneaky feeling that James parents were James Venables and Jane Mold married 1/9/1783 but again it is speculation.There is a tree on ancestry but the facts do not add up properly on it and as it was put on there in 2004 I think some of it could be wrong ,so I really don't know any further.
William and Charlottes children you probably have but ,hey what the heck ,I expect someone else may need them at some stage , are:
Jane bp 20/2/1831
Emma BP 1/2/1835
Charles bp 7/7/1837
Harriet(t) bp23/10/1842
Benjamin bp 17/5/1840
Jonathon bp 3/8/1843
All born Cheshunt
Strange thing is ,William and George married two sisters , then William and Harrietts two children went on to marry a brother and sister from the Watling family ,I expect they liked to keep it in the family.
I would love to see a picture of David as I knew nothing about the Venables until last year.I do have a photo of William and Harriets son William Buggs born 1863 and his wife Eliza Ann Watling.
Have you found Frances Venables b 1858 ? (daughter of David b1828)so far I have found 13 children with the possibility of a couple more ,she married William John Adams. Crikey and I complain about the one child I have left at home.
Keep going with the hair restorer and if you have any left over ,I could do with some too.
Lin
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Hi again Lin: Thanks for the info. It corresponds with mine excepting Charles b. 1838 that I have listed as a son of William and Charlotte. I know that this sounds stupid, but........who are William and Mary? Is there a connection here? James (according to the census) was born in 1781. If this is correct, then that elimates James Venables and Jane Mold, married 1783, but I guess, not entirely. It has happened.
Frances Venables (my great grandmother) had 15 children- 1 died at a year old. All but 1 (David) immigrated to Canada, scattering all over the country. Some remained in the Newbrunswick region. There are many descendents. My maiden name was Adams.
Hollie is connected to me through Richard Venables who married Sally Burgess who was the sister to my great grandmother on my grandmother's side. Get that! A double connection. And you think you're confused. I did have your email address, but can't locate it, so will try to attach photo of David and Sarah Ettridge.(http://) Sorry, my intentions were good, but I can't figure it out. I'll try and find your address. If you don't get it, you'll know I didn't find it. My desk is in shambles.
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Hi Anne
William and Mary were Ballards ,parents of Elizabeth and Charlotte.
The 1841(James b1781) census rounds ages to the nearest 5 so there could vaguely be a link.
I'll send you a PM with my e mail address.
I did see William Hills a while ago and found out some details but ,like you I do not have a filing system ,just a heap of paper that will get sorted soon.
I have Burgess in my family tree but mine are all from the Tendring Peninsular (NE Essex).
Lin
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Sorry to interupt, but are you sure it is BALLARD? I am tracing a BULLARD family also from Cheshunt, and was wondering if a transcription somewhere could have gone astray. (Not that I've got very far back with it yet. Just curious though.)
Best
Sami
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Hi Lin,
I may have lost the thread in your posting, but during my search at HALS today I found two baptism entries in the Cheshunt PRs ...
17Nov1805. George s/o James and Sarah Venables bn.25Sep1805 .
10Jan1808. William s/o James and Sarah Venables bn.03Dec1807.
Hope these will be of some help.
Regards ... Peter
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For William Ballard and Mary -
I also have a son George christened/baptised 17.4.1796.
I have John c.10.10.1790 and poss married a Phyllis. Also got Ann who poss married William Gibbs, and George poss married Mary Silvy 5.6.1825.
I also came to the speculation that James Venables b.1786 parents were James c.28.3.1763 Cheshunt and Jane Mold m.1.9.1783. Their other children look like Ann, James, James, Maria, Sophia, Susanna, Matilda, Harriet and Catherine.
Additionally, i have found James Venables b.1786 who married Sarah daughter Ann b.1818 married to James Dyson. Their children were James William, Elizabeth Jane, Sarah Ann, Louisa and William.
As for Frances Venables b 1858, i have been told they had 15 children.
Hi Anne and Hollie
William Ballard and Mary's children that I have found are:
John 1790 Cheshunt
Anne bp3/2/1792
Charlotte
Elizabeth
James bp9/9/1798 Cheshunt
Thomas bp 13/9/1801 Cheshunt
Have looked for a marriage for them and the nearest one in the time frame is in Epping ,but as it is only a brain storm I have not put that in my tree.I also have a sneaky feeling that James parents were James Venables and Jane Mold married 1/9/1783 but again it is speculation.There is a tree on ancestry but the facts do not add up properly on it and as it was put on there in 2004 I think some of it could be wrong ,so I really don't know any further.
William and Charlottes children you probably have but ,hey what the heck ,I expect someone else may need them at some stage , are:
Jane bp 20/2/1831
Emma BP 1/2/1835
Charles bp 7/7/1837
Harriet(t) bp23/10/1842
Benjamin bp 17/5/1840
Jonathon bp 3/8/1843
All born Cheshunt
Have you found Frances Venables b 1858 ? (daughter of David b1828)so far I have found 13 children with the possibility of a couple more ,she married William John Adams. Crikey and I complain about the one child I have left at home.
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Thanks Peter for taking the time to help out ,it's really appreciated as I didn't have the dates of birth ,just the baptism dates.I think we are all on the right track.
15 children and no washine machine!!!!!
Lin
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Can you tell me about your Bullard family in Cheshunt, Herts. some of my Bullard family from Hunts went to Herts, believe some may have gone to Cheshunts
Regards
Mary pendred
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Hello Mary: I'm afraid that I really don't have much information on the Ballard (not Bullard) family that is connected with my ancestors. What I have is: Elizabeth Ballard, daughter of William and Ann Ballard, born 1807 Cheshunt, Christened 7 Apr 1807, died ABT 1867 - married BEF 1824 to George Venables b. 1805 Cheshunt, Christened 17 Nov 1805, died 1849, son of James and Sarah Venables. They had 11 children. If this is of any use to you, please let me know. I can give you the names of their children with birth dates, if you require. I know that Ballard and Bullard are very close, but I am certain of the "Ballard" spelling in my family. Hope this is some help to you.
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New to the board. Has anyone made any progress with regard to James' and Sarah's marriage? Their parents?
Her maiden name? I believe I saw somewhere that a James and Sarah were married in Shoreditch (not Cheshunt)
in 1802, but I have no way to confirm this. Thanks.
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Spoons
What info do you bring to the table?
Saves duplication of effort.
James Venables / Sarah Housden
22 Nov 1802 Shoreditch St Leonard
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Thanks for the quick reply. George Venables (b.1805) is my ggg-grandfather. Like many, I have hit
a wall with James and Sarah. I have tried the usual familysearch, ancestry, etc., but have become
confused with entries which state that her maiden name was actually Gibson or other.
Is the entry you gave (1802) our folks? Is there documentation?
I am sorry to bring so little to the table. Like many on this board, I have found
it to be a little like nailing jello to a wall. The risks of being a rookie.....
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Since I posted my last query, "The Venables Group" has posted a genealogy on Facebook - Venables Family Trees. It appeared on April 9, 2012. It has my ancestor, George Venables (b. 1805), and takes the line back to 1726. Has anyone seen it? It lists James as born in 1776 in Cheshunt and marrying Sarah.
Was she Sarah Housden who married James Venables in Shoreditch in 1802, or Susanna (some on Ancestry
call her Sarah Susanna) Gibson? Susanna Gibson married James Venables at All Saints and St. John Church in Hertford in 1803. That's the right place, but not exactly the right name.....The Shoreditch marriage is the right name (Sarah), but the wrong place.....
Has the Venables Group resolved the issues of this board?
Perhaps someone from the Venables Group could respond to me.
Thanks.
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Hiya
Thank you for heads up on this facebook group.
It is certainly interesting and definitely worth another look.
Hollie
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What I have is: Elizabeth Ballard, daughter of William and Ann Ballard, born 1807 Cheshunt, Christened 7 Apr 1807, died ABT 1867 - married BEF 1824 to George Venables
Hiya
I am a little concerned about this message, as I have different information regarding Elizabeth Ballard.
I have Elizabeth's parents as William Ballard and Mary and their other children included: John, Ann, George, James, Thomas and Charlotte. Charlotte married William Venables (George's brother).
I look forward to hearing from you, so we can clear this discrepancy up.
Hollie
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Sorry to bump up an old thread, but I feel I have something to add.
I have a birth certificate for an Emma Wilkinson - no father listed, born at Pan Tile Hall (or pantile) in 1976, previously mentioned as a household for some of the Venables in this thread.
I have come to the conclusion that the father must be one of the Dysons, most probably James William Dyson. They were neighbours in 1871 and James is at Pan Tile in 1881.
Emma went on to marry Alfred Ruskin, the son of Jane Ballard, daughter of John Ballard, b.1790 - sibling of Elizabeth and Charlotte (who married the Venables brothers) and son of William and Mary Ann.
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Heya!
Thank you so much for that update. It does sound good. I'd love to hear more and possibly have a copy of the certificate if you are willing to share?
Are you also connected to the Venables? I look forward to hearing from you (please PM me).
Many thanks
Hollie