RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: Andi R on Monday 12 December 05 22:02 GMT (UK)
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I came across a odd marking on a grave the other day does anyone know if there was any significance
Widthways on the base was a crossed bones then a skull then crossed bones again????
Andrew
and I do have a pic
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Pirate or Privateer??
How old was the grave?
Jinks
If anyone one comes across a privateer named
..... Rhodes
Please let me know.
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Just means death according to this.
http://olivetreegenealogy.com/misc/grave.shtml
Kev. ;D
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Jun ye 10th 1729
Andrew
Not seen one like this
Interesting site though, but a boring meaning if true I was hoping a plague victim or something
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Can you post the photo, be interesting to see it.
Kev.
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I could make it clearer by resizing it in two bits
Wording only on one side so someone else expected which is sad
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Hi Andrew,
I'm pretty sure these types of emblems/carvings refer to 'death'.
I hope they do anyway, otherwise half the population of Stirlingshire were either spooks or pirates!
Anne
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Anne
Hava a look at that site that Kevwood said earlier it gives all the symbol meanings
Andrew
see it was a nicer day when you got that pic it was raining on mine
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Thanks Andrew,
I've got all these websites in 'my favourites' already.
Anne :)
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I came across a odd marking on a grave the other day does anyone know if there was any significance
Widthways on the base was a crossed bones then a skull then crossed bones again????
Andrew
and I do have a pic
Where is the tombstone the marking at the top (winged head) is what is known as a Belvoir Angel and commonly found in the Vale of Belvoir, Leicestershire but occassionally elsewhere.
Cheers
Guy
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It's at Aspatria in Cumbria (Cumberland) @ St Kentigram's
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
I'm pretty sure these types of emblems/carvings refer to 'death'.
I hope they do anyway, otherwise half the population of Stirlingshire were either spooks or pirates!
Anne
From Top left-
(hourglass) signifies the passage of life
(skull) - mortality
(crossbones) - mortality
(book & spade) - bible and death
The cross in the centre is an ankh (an Egyptian or Gnostic cross) which is an emblem of faith.
Cheers
Guy
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Well now,from my multifarious reading's,(or should that be nefarious?)it seem's that Freemason's used this symbol a lot,and 'up north'was supposed to have been a place of refuge after the destruction of the Knight's Templar's order in France.
Nobility is not required for the use of the symbolism,from what I understand,membership was nobility in itself.
Now, I will get off me bike or my interest will bore you to tear's!!!
Regard's,Goggy. ;)
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all this is why I believe gravestones should be cared for as they are live (or dead) history books and the art on them is as good as any
Andrew
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Andrew,agreed,have you seen the other reference's to other gravestone recordin's on this site?
'Celia' is one example,doing a Bobby's job!There has also been a suggestion that a 'Gravestone record' site be included.
Regard's,Goggy.
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May I suggest gravestones be recorded like this
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/stcr/stjsc1.htm
The site includes photos, transcripts & burial register.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi everyone
Noticed on a visit to Godstone graveyard in Surrey that there were several very old (1700s) gravestones with skull and crossbones.
In the back of my mind I seem to think that there was a specific reason for putting skull and crossbones on gravestones. Was it something to do with criminals?
Does anyone know?
I know I've seen the odd one around different graveyards but here there were several. Why?
Thanks for any thoughts
Kerry ???
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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I've come across the same thing Kerry,alway's thought it was something to do with pirates. ???
Derek.
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Hi,
There is a gravestone with skull and crossbones at Hinckley, Leics. - I was told it signified a victim of the plague. There only seems to be one like it in the graveyard - and that seems unlikely that if there was an outbreak of the plague only one person would fall victim. If it was only one victim - unlucky or what :'(
As a child, I liked to imagine it was a pirate's gravestone - although Hinckley is approximately 100 miles from the sea ::)
Maggie
PS I've enjoyed reading the info on this thread and agree entirely with Andrew about the need to preserve gravestones.
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Maggie, the ones I saw are unlikely to be plague victims are they are much later than the plague.
Seems according to the link that it was just images with meanings and in this case - death.
Oh well!
Kerry
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Hi, if you click the link i posted on page 1 of this thread it will tell you.
By the way Maggie i live in Hinckley, wheres the gravestone? Is it Ashby Rd?
I can get a photo.
Kev. ;D
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Kev
Yes I saw your link, thank you. Got me thinking actually. I have a chap in my family tree, Jonathan Harmer who is known, by some, in these parts for creating terracotta baises that were stuck onto gravestones round Sussex
http://baldwin.rootschat.net/html/gravestones.html
and I am now wondering whether he chose his designs, not randomly but by choice. Most of the ones I have seen were urns of fruit and flowers but some had cherubs too.
Hmm
Kerry
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Hi Kev,
The grave I'm thinking of is in St Mary's Churchyard - as far as I can remember (and my memory is shaky at the best of times ::)) it is along the side of the actual church - to the left (as you enter the church) of the main door.
Maggie :)
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Here's a photo my daughter took in a churchyard in Dumfries while on holiday last year. Apparently quite a lot of the gravestones had these skulls on the back.
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There quite a few of these in Peebles (Scotland) cemetery. They scared the living daylights out of me as a child, and I would not want to go to that part of the churchyard!
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have a look at this
http://olivetreegenealogy.com/misc/grave.shtml
AR
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Here's a wee collage of some of my favourite gravestones . . . .
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Not spooky but very sad, the story behind this grave is she was brought over by her owner in winter and was baptised a few months before her death. two other slaves were brought from Nevis with her, the boy also died soon after arriving and the third was sold on.
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Not a Headstone marking but could be classed as "SPOOKY" ;)
Took this picture for a fellow rootschatter some time ago at Philips Park cem in Manchester
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I may have got this wrong but Im sure i read once (in a book about a scottish burial isle) that the skull and crossbones on the graves were to keep the evil spirits away -and thats what iv believed ever since. iv never heard anything about pirates.
Alison
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I took this photo recently in Fettercairn Scotland.
Looks like someone was covering their bases with every symbol imaginable engraved therein.
Di
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in the Tarot Cards,
Death which is symbolised by a skeleton means new life,
i wonder if it means the same here.
which is a much nicer thought
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Lady Di,
The old saying 'If you've got it, flaunt it' springs to mind!
Anne
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Old thread i know but a stone placed in the church wall at Roxburgh, cropped from an image of a window and the stones
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/glenintinselknickers/Roxburgh004cropped.jpg)
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Are any of these gravestones dated? A stone bearing a death's head was at itsmost popular during the 18th century, and was largely obsolete by 1820. A stone featuring a cherub was used between 1740 and 1840, whilst a stone showing an urn and willow was popular from 1780 to at least 1860. Stones undated of these and other types can be used by archaeologists to date burials approximately, the process being known as frequency seriation.
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There are a number of silmiliar stones with skulls and/or bones in my area (Scottish Borders) and several are dated, i think the earliest one i have photographed is 1733 and also bears two letters (initials?).
There are several at Lennel (berwickshire) around a mile from where i live but the graveyard is no longer tended and badly overgrown, several also appear at Hutton about 10 miles away., one stone is dated to 1697 but doesn't feature any carved symbols, it just has a plain inscription.
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That fitsx nicely with the archaeological evidence.
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Does anyone have any idea of what these markings would mean ?
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Not the meaning or significance, but they seem to be reminescent of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Where is the stone located please?
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hi
the stone is in st cuthberts in kirkcudbright it is the stone of william marshall who died in 1792
it seems to be two crossed spoons and rams horns but not sure why
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Cracked it: See Scottish Gypsies under the Stewarts by David MacRitchie. Apparently William Marshall was b1670, and dNov 1792, which made him over 120 years old. I am very surprised that thre is not more information given on such a character, but Googling William Marshall Kirkcudbright gave this information, and a lot more, too much to reproduce here. So fascinating I might even buy the book, and I lived over 40 years in Yorkshire!!
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hi red
yes there is more information on the front of the stone this is from the back
i have have traced my family line back to william marshall and went to see the stone after reading all the stories of him.
and i was curious to find out what they where as he seems to have been quite a character. when you go to the stone the top of it is covered in coins that people leave for luck.
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I too thought they were 2 crossed spoons and rams horns, I know in the past people have had things on their stones to represent their occupations such as building tools, maybe he was a shepherd or a cook ?
this was my first thought but I have found that actually the rams horns represent the religion so i think he was jewish
Jews
There are also a large number of east-Bohemian asymmetrical stele (so-called rams horns) – the upper edge of the gravestone is shaped into an asymmetrical ...
www.hlinsko.cz/english/tourist-info/chrudim-hlinsko.../jews
V7
On gravestones, one can also find the image of a shofar, ram's horn trumpet, (referring to the person who blew the shofar at the various religious ...
www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Rozalimas/chapter5/.../V7.htm
pass on the spoons though.
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This is interesting, a possible Jewish gypsy. Sets me wondering from something connected to another line that I am researching. Does anyone know whether this actually happened? My first impression of the memorial (see post 2 above) was that it was possibly Egyptian, or Masonic symbolism.