RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Leitrim => Topic started by: Stev1 on Wednesday 26 July 06 08:10 BST (UK)
-
William Dennison (Denison) worked as a Head Groom at an estate at or near Manorhamilton in the 1860s. Can anyone help with identification of this estate.
The address" Lockris, Cloonclare, Co Leitrm" keeps cropping up in this story but I have been unable to establish who lived there.
Can anyone help please.
-
The Clements family seem to have owned most of the land in Co Leitrim - the Lords Leitrim are from that family.
Robert Denison is shown as occupier of a couple of plots in the Griffith Valuation, both held from a Clements. So you may get joy in any estate papers of the Clements family.
The townland of Loughros is in the (enormous) parish of Cloonclare. But it doesn't look like the centre of an estate - it seems to be the side of a mountain.
See www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=54.3134&lon=-7.9613&scale=50000&icon=x
-
Many thanks for the information.
I had thought that Lockris might be really Loughros but I rejected the idea for the reason you state. I believe Cloonclare is also the name of a townland in the parish of Cloonclare so I thought that Lockris was the name of the house in the townland of Cloonclare?
Stev1
-
Hi,
here's a site which might help - http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page_by_place.do?page_id=1436
The Clements lived at Lough Rynn House.
good luck
heywood
this looks good too - http://www.loughrynn.net/
-
Heywood
Thanks for that - I particularly like "Not surprisingly he was assassinated...", as if this were everyday behaviour!
The Clements family lived in various places; but Stev1 is looking for where his Denisons lived. I suppose it is possible that as Head Groom William Denison might have had no fixed abode, and might have been required to follow the entourage from estate to estate ? Anyone got ideas on that ?
Adrian
-
Many thanks for all the input.
Lough Rynn would appear to be too far from Manorhamilton for my comfort. There are a number of other Denisons in Griffiths who have leased land from Owen Wynne. He had a 1000 acre estate at Lurganboy just outside Manorhamilton towards Sligo. Also William the Head Groom ended up owning a pub on the quayside at Sligo. Owen Wynne owned large chunks of Sligo Town. Any thoughts on this scenario?
-
Stev1
Although Lurganboy is certainly nearer Manorhamilton, it seems to be in the Civil Parish of Killasnet - this goes against your documentary evidence which suggests Cloonclare parish (or even Cloonclare townland).
[Later modification]: Lewis Topograhical Dictionary tells us that much of Killasnet was in the (Church of Ireland vicarage) Union of Cloonclare.
What is the nature of your documentary evidence ? You have called it a story - was it a story meant to be taken literally ?
Adrian
-
Stev1
An 1831 muster shows John & Thomas Denison in a company led by Captain Andrew Johnston. Does this connect with anything ?
And William Dennison Snr & William Dennison Jnr are in a company led by Captain John James Cullen.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllet/RayWhittinger/1831_Mar_Leitrim_Militia_Muster.htm
Adrian
-
Adrian
Thanks again for your interest.
William was not in the army - as to his father - I don't know his name or occupation.
As in these situations there are facts and there are facts. William was born 1839 or 1840 fact. He worked on a big estate at Manorhamilton and later owned a pub in Sligo Town fact. He had 5 children 4 of whom were born at Lockris, Cloonclare, Co Leitrim and one (a middle child) was born in Co Fermanagh - all were born away from home while the family was resident in Sligo - nearly fact. The 4 were definitely born in Co leitrim and in my father's documented history he states that they were born at this address. He may have got the name or spelling wrong. My father states that he was an orphan while my Uncle states that he was the youngest of 3 boys by some 14 years and both his parents had died while he was young (how young?). He fell out with his brothers over the will and the brothers bought him off by first getting him a job in the big estate and then buying him a pub. Hearsay but the circumstantial evidence would point in this direction although it raises issues about how the brothers had the influence etc. But it does answer how an orphan would be able to afford a pub.
Clearly Lockris is central to unlocking this story. If he had fallen out with his brothers and he was either de facto or actually an orphan then who was living at Lockris that his wife visited to have her children? We know that her parents lived in Co Fermanagh, nearly fact. She was born and raised in Co Fermanagh. It is just possible that they moved to Manorhamilton but unlikely for they would have had to return to Co Fermanagh for the birth of the middle child and then come back to Co Leitrim for the birth of the remaining children. I know that the "centre of gravity" of William and his family was Manorhamilton even when they lived in Sligo. As a young boy Manorhamilton was talked about a lot.
Its like a detective novel!
Stev1
-
If William was born 1839-40 and all 5 of his children were born in Ireland, then your next step is definitely to get copies of GRO birth register entries for such Den(n)ison children as were born (in Sligo & Leitrim) in or shortly after 1864. This will clarify for you at least the County in which each of William's children was born, and probably the townland as well.
Den(n)ison is a rare enough name that you should strike lucky - but be prepared for some wrong 'uns, given the other Den(n)isons we have seen in Griffith and elsewhere. (Being in the militia is not the same thing as being in the army - it was a sort of TA job.)
Who knows, you may even solve the problem of Lockris at the same time!
Adrian
-
May help or not- presumably you know the names of William's wife and children but Family Search has 4 girls born William Denison and Mary Anne (Emery) - for Caroline it says Canery. You will be able to get birth certificates for them to hopefully give you a better insight into the area.
Griffiths valuation has Emerys in Fermanagh and a Robert Denison and a Jane Denison in Meenymore, Cloonclare plus other Denisons in Leitrim. This is the site:
www.failteromhat.com
You can also do a parish search for townlands - but it does not show you the owners- it's just an index (apologies if you already know this).
I do notice that there are people living in the townland of Loughros; the Clements must have property at Meenymore and there is also the Tottehnham family in the area who were landowners - probably a few more too!
Best wishes
heywood
this site also lists some landowners - no info about their houses but again - may help
http://www.thepeerage.com/pd151.htm#i13326
-
Hi Steve,
Mother is Dennison from Leitrim. Have a large amount of information on family.
Williams baptism record for 1839 is available. but I have not looked it up.
I had provisionally put him down as my G grandfathers brother. (not proved) and son of William and Jane. (William snr died young c 1848) seem to tie in.
Jane called after mother ? was born in Enniskillen and baptised on 13/01/1871.
This almost certainly makes the place you are searching as Loughros part of the Tottenham Estate near Glenfarne. The Tottenhams also lived in Enniskillen?
However I have 4 brothers plus William.
We are almost certainly connected.
Give me a shout.
Barry
-
RootsChat SUCCESS
-
Hi Kintree
Looks good
Thanks
Stephen
-
I am not sure if any of you are still Dennisons? but you might want to visit the Dennison DNA website
at http://www.johnbrobb.com/JBR-DEN-sur.htm
My husband family have 3 brothers John Robert & James all came from Manorhamilton to Caledon Ontario Canada about 1823
Robert (bn abt 1795) married Eliza Wiggins
James (bn abt 1801) married Mary Ann McBride
John (bn abt 1790?) married Catherine Alexander
All the brothers farmed in the Caledon & Chinguacousy, Peel Ontario & died there
======================================================
We were first told they were born in Manorhamilton but on James son death record it show his father born in Cork? However we have no other piece of evidence to prove the Cork connection. yet anyway.
I found 2 record for a James (1801 & John (1797)-born in Shankill Belfast that both look very close to the dates we have but not sure they are correct? Still looking into this
Cousin Barry in Cork has also been doing very extensive Dennison research work and has done a wonderful job:)
Anyway I would definitely check out the Dna site if you havnt already
Bye for now
jila
-
Newspaper: Roscommon And Leitrim Gazette
Newspaper Subject: DENNISON WILLIAM GORTNAGROGERNY
Newspaper Content: Application by the above Re: His intention to register a freehold at Gortnagrogerny and Gortnagora in the half Barony of Rosclogher
Date: 16 May 1829