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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Silas on Sunday 20 August 06 15:54 BST (UK)
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My grandmother's sister had an illegitimate daughter in 1895. I knew the mother's name and the child's name, but wasintrigued to find out the name of the father. I knew his surname, which was Wigglesworth, so sent for the birth certificate. Imagine my disappointment when on the certificate the father isn't even mentioned. The child was instead given his surname as part of her christian name - Ellen Wigglesworth Clarkson.
Is there any way I can find out his christian name - as rumour has it that he was an in-law of the mother in some way. The child was born in Allerton Bywater.
Silas
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Hi Silas,
It was usual for the father not to be named on the birth cert. Have a look at http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm
Rarely a father was named on the parish records, but I have yet to find one!!!!
Have you looked at the mothers family at all to see if there is an in law by the name of Wigglesworth?
If you give me the mothers and any siblings names, I could have a dig about for you.
Kath
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Hi Kath. Thank you for your kind offer. The mother in question was named Fanny Clarkson, born 1878 her siblings were Laura Cecelia, 1871, Emily, 1875, Lucy, 1883, Clare (or Clara), 1891, Volla, 1894. Male siblings were Alfred, 1873, Reuben, 1880.
All were born in West Yorkshire - Leeds area. Parents were Reuben Clarkson and Mary Ann Clarkson (nee Tyzack). Thank you again.
Silas
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Hi Silas,
I found on freebmd, marriages listed in the qtr Jan-Mar 1894 in the district of Pontefract with the same ref the following:
Emily Clarkson
Joseph Wigglesworth
Sarah Elizabeth Dixon
Adolphus Frederick Higgins.
I then found Adolphus Frederick Higgins and Sarah Elizabeth Dixon together on the 1901 census in Castleford, which nicely leaves Emily Clarkson and Joseph Wigglesworth, unfortunately at the moment I can find neither of them on the 1901 census.
I will keep digging 'tho ;)
Kath
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Hi Kath - had to go out today, so sorry for not getting back to you. You have really surprised me by what you have found !! Looks like Joseph Wigglesworth could be the culprit then - married to Fanny's sister. The dates tie in because Ellen Wigglesworth Clarkson was born in March 1895 and family rumour has it that Fanny got pregnant by a brother-in-law - which is what Joseph was.
Who then were Sarah Dixon and Adolphus Higgins? Thank you for being kind enough to help and anyother info you may find would be great. Thank you.
Silas
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If Ellen Wigglesworth Clarkson married she may give you further clues to her father on her marriage. If she could she would be likely to claim she was legitimate for propriety's sake, so if she was marrying as a Clarkson she is likely to give that surname for her father, leaving you the Christian name if she knew it, as her father's name. You can't be sure though since she could just give the Christian name of a close male relative. Alternatively she could go the whole way and give you the full name of her real father. You just don't know until you see the details what she chooses to say on the day.
Regards
Valda
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Hello Valda. Thanks for the reply. I do know that Ellen did marry - she married a Thomas Stannard who was Australian and she went off to Australia with him - do not know yet the details of the marriage - date or place, etc, but will try to find this out, as you say, there could be a clue on her marriage certificate. Thank you for your help.
Silas
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The quarterly GRO index is here
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
The marriage doesn't appear on FreeBMD.
Their coverage charts are here so you can check which years and quarters they have full coverage of
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/progress.shtml
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda. Ellen's mother Fanny married a year after Ellen's birth - married a George Goodall, so am now wondering if Ellen changed her surname to Goodall, its a possibility I suppose, that's if it was allowed in those days. I think I'll look into that. Thanks.
Silas
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FreeBMD coverage only goes up to about 1912, so she would be a bit young to have married by then.
Regards
Valda
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OK Valda - thanks for your efforts - I will plod on and search. I am more convinced than ever, after looking myself that Joseph Wigglesworth was Ellen's father as Kath said (Fanny's brother-in-law). I was told by the son of one of the other sisters in the family (Volla) to look for a brother-in-law, except he didn't know who, only that the surname was Wigglesworth.
Silas
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Joseph and/or any of his brothers - they would also be 'brothers-in-law' of a sort. If it actually was Joseph wouldn't that rather have split the family apart - Emily's sister having a relationship with her husband?
Regards
Valda
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Still haven't found Emily or Joseph on the 1901, not giving up though :P
Have you seen Fanny on the 1901? I found her yesterday married to George Goodall, but I notice that Ellen is not living with them and nor is she with her maternal grandparents.
Kath
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1901 census RG13 4431 folio 50
Cliff Fever Hospital Garforth Yorkshire
Nellie Goodall 6 Allerton Bywater, Yorkshire, Patient
also a patient Louise Clarkson aged 18 born Allerton Bywater
Nellie is a pet form for Helen/Ellen/Eleanor etc.
My aunt spent months in a fever hospital when she was a child, in her case for diptheria.
You can and always have been allowed to be known by any name you want so there would be no reason for Ellen not to be able to use the surname Goodall.
Regards
Valda
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Fantastic, thats explained Ellen's whereabouts.
Had a quick look at the marriage indexes and struck lucky, Thomas W Stannard and Ellen W Clarkson married in the qtr Jul- Sep 1919, District of Pontefract, Vol 9c, page 352.
Kath
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Hi Valda.
Yes, the family would have been split apart with a scandal like that. As a child I remember Fanny and Emily and they never seemed to meet and my late mother made hints about a family scandal but wouldn't enlarge on it. I too have thought it may have been a brother of Joseph, but how on earth can I find that out? Aargh !!
Also discovered 'Nellie' Goodall in 1901 in the Cliff Fever hospital, and have 'Googled' it to see if there are any records, but cannot find it - shut down years ago I expect. Asked about it on here weeks ago, but no replies.
Silas
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Hi Kath. Yes, I have found Fanny married to George Goodall in 1901 and also Nellie Goodall in the Cliff Fever hospital, but where on earth are Emily and Joseph - I cannot track them down. Great you have found Thomas and Ellen's marriage - thank you. Oh I'll get no housework done today !!
Silas
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'Also at the top of the Cliff used to be the Scarlet Fever hospital, but now I am going back to just after the war.'
'the old fever hospital was bought by a friend of ours and is converted into a lovely house'
quotes from Ted and Enid in the Yorkshire Post.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda - so it is a house now, bet it's lovely. Wonder who Louise Clarkson is who was also in there? My late gran was a Lucy Clarkson born 1883 - so right age - wonder if it was her because I cannot find her on the 1901 census - could possibly have been an error, but won't chance that in case I'm wrong.
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I wondered if Joseph and Emily stayed together, so had a look on freebmd and there is a Vera Wigglesworth, mothers maiden name of Clarkson born in 1911 in the registration district of Hemsworth. If Joseph was the culprit, I wonder if Emily forgave him or stayed with him through necessity!!!
I wonder if the reason we can't find Joseph and Emily on the 1901, is because Joseph was in hiding from a load of male Clarkson's ;D
Kath
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If you look for Clarkson and Wigglesworth potential marriages in FreeBMD you get a surprising number - not all of which with four couples on each page will be Clarkson and Wigglesworth, but I had noticed the Hemsworth marriage because that is the only other example of Wigglesworth as a middle name in FreeBMD for a birth.
Marriages Jun 1910
CLARKSON Ada Alice Hemsworth 9c 244
Wigglesworth Tom Hemsworth 9c 244
Births Jun 1910
CLARKSON John Wigglesworth Hemsworth 9c 194
Births Jun 1910
WIGGLESWORTH John Hemsworth 9c 194
I hadn't mentioned it because of all the other possible Clarkson Wigglesworth marriages. Wigglesworth was/is obviously a more popular surname than I thought.
Regards
Valda
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Kath - don't think from what I recollect as a young child that they stayed together - don't ever remember Emily having a husband, unless he died young. You could be right about the male Clarksons hunting him down - he probably fled the country !!
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Valda - now going to look at the Hemsworth marriage, etc that you gave. Thank you.
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Hi Valda and Kath. Am wondering if Emily went back to her maiden name, as there is an Emily Clarkson on the 1901 census, born Wetherby - same area as Boston Spa and she is classed as a lodger - just a guess, she's the right age.
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I can't see an obvious candidate for her on the 1891 or 1881 censuses, but Kath's local knowledge will be better than mine.
Do you remember Emily having children? What was her surname when you or your cousins remembered her?
If you do think Joseph is worth pursuing then the only way we will know anything about him and find him on censuses seems to be if you obtain Emily and Joseph's marriage details and we track him from that information.
Regards
Valda
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Emily was my grandmother's (Lucy Clarkson) sister on my mother's side. I never remember her having children and only remember her living alone. I do not know what her surname was - she was just Great Aunt Emily. Think, as you say it is a question of her marriage certificate to Joseph - unless of course Kath can come up with anything. Thank you for all your help.
Silas.
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Emily is living with her parents in 1881 and her father in 1891.
There is a possible candidate for Joseph on the 1891 living in Castleford, whom I can't see on the 1901, but I agree with Valda, Emily and Josephs marriage details would provide the necessary info.
I think the Emily you found Silas is a very likely candidate, as you say Wetherby, is close to Boston Spa and of course the family were living there in 1891.
Regards, Kath
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Thank you so much Valda and Kath for all your help. Agree, it will have to be Emily and Joseph's marriage details - I'm going cross-eyed trawling through pages of info. Thank you both again.
Silas
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I obviously didn't make myself clear - sorry. I meant if it wasn't your Emily on the 1901 census but a never married Emily Clarkson I couldn't see a candidate for her on earlier censuses. I could see Emily the daughter of Reuben on the 1881 and 1891 census, but I didn't have sufficient local knowledge to know whether any of the other potential Emily Clarksons might be the 1901 woman. I didn't think however there was an obvious candidate from the previous censuses for a completely unmarried Emily Clarkson in 1901.
Regards
Valda
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Valda - it is possible that is Emily on the 1901 census, but still think I need a marriage certificate. Can't be 100% sure it is her though. Would love to know the full story about all this !! Thank you again.
Silas
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Valda and Kath - have just found the marriage certificate of Emily's sister Lucy (my gran) dated 1904. On it Emily is a witness and signs herself Emily CLARKSON, so she must have reverted to her maiden name.
Silas
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That is interesting - so if Emily was married to Joseph Wigglesworth, then Emily has totally disassociated herself by reverting back to her maiden name, then I would say he is probably the likely culprit, as I couldn't see Emily and Joseph parting because of what his brother had done!!!!!
I said if Emily was married to Joseph, because as yet there is only the marriage registration and I hope it is your Emily, but of course you can't be certain.
But what an interesting story, I'm sure it was dreadful for poor Emily though.
Regards,
Kath
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I know this was a long time ago that this query was brought to the board, but thought I would give all who helped me here an update - I now have Emily's marriage certificate and she was married to Joseph Wigglesworth and he was Ellen's father by Emily's sister Fanny. Poor Emily, seems she was only married 3 months when Fanny her sister became pregnant by him.
Silas
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Hi Silas,
Thank you for the update, it is nice to know the outcome.
Gosh, no wonder Emily reverted back to her maiden name, what a :-X Joseph was.
Kath
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Silas where does this get us in the hunt for which Joseph Wigglesworth it was?
Have you found him on earlier censuses from the information about his father given on the marriage certificate?
Regards
Valda
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Valda - haven't started looking for that yet. His father was Richard Wigglesworth - occupation glassblower, and one of the witnesses to the marriage was an Alice Wigglesworth. Will get to work on that.
Silas
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1881 census RG11 4593 folio 90
38 West Street Castleford Yorkshire
Richard Wigglesworth 35 Aberford Yorkshire, Head Married Glass bottle maker
Sarah Wigglesworth 32 Warrington Lancashire, Wife Married
Eliza Wigglesworth 9 Castleford Yorkshire, Daughter
Joseph Wigglesworth 7 Castleford Yorkshire, Son
Alice Wigglesworth 4 Castleford Yorkshire, Daughter
Richard Wigglesworth 2 Castleford Yorkshire, Son
Regards
Valda
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Thank you so much Valda for that - am a bit short of time today, but have searched the 1901 census a bit, with no luck so far - perhaps he fled the country !! Will carry on looking though. Thank you.
Silas
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1891 census RG12 3763 folio 155
48 West Street Castleford Yorkshire
Richd Wigglesworth 45 Yorkshire, Head Married Glass bottle maker
Sarah Wigglesworth 43 Warrington, Lancashire Wife Married
Joseph Wigglesworth 17 Castleford Yorkshire, Son
Richard Wigglesworth 13 Castleford Yorkshire, Son
John Wigglesworth 8 Castleford Yorkshire, Son
Polly Wigglesworth 6 Castleford Yorkshire, Daughter
Maggie Wigglesworth 2 Castleford Yorkshire, Daughter
Sarah Syres 16 Knottingley Yorkshire Niece ?
next door to Matthew Wigglesworth and his family. Matthew was also a glass bottle maker aged 44 born Newthorpe Yorkshire
If this is Joseph's birth registration
Births Dec 1873
Wigglesworth Joseph Morris Pontefract 9c 128
then this man emigrated to America.
Marriages Mar 1867
Morris Sarah Harriet Castleford 9c 123
Wigglesworth Richard Castleford 9c 123
U.S. First World War draft registration
Joseph Morris Wigglesworth
Address Clinton Avenue Burginfield Bergen New Jersey
aged 44 date of birth 23rd November 1873 born England
occupation bricklayer for Gypsum Company
wife Julia Minow? Wigglesworth
Height tall
medium build
hazel eyes
black hair
1920 U.S. census
Bergenfield, Bergen, New Jersey
Joseph Wigglesworth 46 England White Head Married Year of immigration 1904 year of naturalization 1919 Bricklayer
Julia Wigglesworth 33 New York White Wife
Mary Wigglesworth 13 New York White Daughter
Alice Wigglesworth 3 New Jersey
1930 U.S. Census
Bergenfield, Bergen, NJ
Joseph M Wigglesworth 56 England Head Widower Year of immigration 1906 naturalized Mason in building trade
Alice Wigglesworth 13 Daughter New Jersey
Edna Wigglesworth 9 Daughter New Jersey
Ruth Wigglesworth 1 5mths Daughter New Jersey
The 1910 census is harder to search because it is only indexed to head of household.
Lots of U.S. cousins then?
Regards
Valda
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Valda - how do you do it? I'm getting in a right old muddle here. I've looked and looked. So when actually did he go to America, and did he remarry to Julia? Where did you find all this info please?
Silas
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From the U.S. census returns he emigrated sometime around 1904-6. I can't see him on the Ellis Island website so he didn't come through New York. He might have come via Canada (he isn't on the 1901 Canadian census). He might not have emigrated by then. Since there was a war on at the time of the fighting he might have been in South Africa.
I have no idea whether he married again or simply lived with Julia as man and wife. He could have got divorced or he might have married bigamously. Censuses don't really give me that sort of detail!
If you don't have subscription access to U.S. records you can't access the sort of records I can access.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks for all that Valda - you've got me going on his side of the family now. Really interesting. I did wonder if he had fled the country - can't blame him after what he did !! Cheers.
Silas.
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Hello Silas, Valda, Katherinem, and anyone else following this topic:
I've followed the topic and wanted to see if I could find anything over here in the U.S. on Joesph Wigglesworth. I searched the Ellis Island passenger lists while having my breakfast and came up with something that may only add to the confusion.
I found a "Joe Wigglesworth" arriving New York, 1905
Name: Joe Wigglesworth
Ethnicity: England, English
Last Place of Residence: Partick
Date of Arrival: May 01, 1905
Age at Arrival: 31
Gender: M
Marital Status: M
Ship: Caledonia
Port of Departure: Glasgow
This Joe Wigglesworth's occupation is bricklayer, so he seems to match up with the Joseph Wigglesworth who was the bricklayer in New Jersey in the draft registration and the 1920 and 1930 censuses. On the manifest Joe Wigglesworth's final destination is given as Baltimore, Maryland, but the address to which he is traveling is John Cameron, 666 10th Avenue, New York (666 may be an appropriate house number if this is the nefarious brother-in-law!) >:( >:( >:(
Since Joe was listed on the manifest as being married, I did a search for a female Wigglesworth coming to join him in the next year or so--1906-08. And I think I found one. Or should I say two? Lizzie Wigglesworth, age 31, and daughter Lizzie, 8, traveled from Glasgow, arriving New York on June 24, 1906. The name and address of the relative they are going to meet is Joseph M. Wigglesworth, 1489 Avenue A, New York.
This could be a red herring, but the middle initial makes it interesting. I realize that in the draft registration (1917) and in the 1920 census, Joseph's wife is Julia. But that is 11 years after Joseph Wigglesworth's wife Lizzie comes to the U.S.
Something to think about... ??? ??? ???
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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Hello all: The point I was trying to make about Joseph Wigglesworth's perhaps having two wives in the U.S. is that once a lout always a lout?
John
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Since Lizzie the child aged 8 in 1906 was Scottish by birth, I'd asked for a lookup on the Scottish 1901 census for the couple and their daughter and see what information it gives.
Regards
Valda
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Hi, wow Valda and John, you have both come up with some great info.
I have had a quick look on Scotlandspeople, there is a Joseph Wigglesworth, the right age on the 1901 Scottish census, but I have no credits left to have a look, and it was on the Glasgow County District.
Couldn't see anything for Lizzie and various combinations, but as you cannot display names it is hard to find. Altogether there are eight Wigglesworth's on the 1901 Scottish census. Hopefully as Valda has suggested, someone maybe able to a lookup for you.
Kath
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Heck - there was a family rumour that he was a SCOT !! So perhaps that is true. How can I find out? Forgot to say, but am not very experienced at all this research, so hopefully you may be able to advise how I can find out if he came originally from Glasgow.
Silas
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Request a look up on one of the Rootschat Scottish boards. It would be more likely to be spotted there than 3 pages in on in this thread in Yorkshire.
If you want link it to this thread - so others can see why you are interested.
The two Lizzies were Scottish the Joseph with them was English.
Regards
Valda
Scotland General request now posted:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=193105.msg953579#msg953579
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Just been poking about again at www.scotlandspeople.co.uk and there is a marriage registration for a Joseph Wigglesworth in 1900 again Glasgow. It couldn't be, could it..........................
Kath
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Katherine - I'm getting confused here !! How many marriages has he had then?
Silas
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Hello all again: Not sure if this explains anything. But on the manifest, Joseph's "nationality" is described as English. The column heading actually reads "Nationality (Country of which citizen or subject.)" Plus, there is the 1873 birth in Castleford. I think that eliminates him as a Scot by birth, but perhaps not by adoption, i.e., running off north of the border before emigrating to the U.S.
Since Joseph the New Jersey bricklayer says he naturalized in 1919, it might be worth seeing where New Jersey naturalizations are held. I'll have a look.
John
P.S. By my count he might have had three marriages, no?
P.P.S. Silas, if you PM me with an e-mail address, I'll get the manifests to you.
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Katherine - I'm getting confused here !! How many marriages has he had then?
Silas
I was wondering if this could be to Lizzie, albeit bigamously ;)
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I'm a johnnyboy come lately to this topic, so I do correct my marriage count. He seems to have married twice. To Lizzie in Scotland and then to Julia in New York State or New Jersey (Bergenfield, incidentally, is a close suburb of New York City). He might not have been bigamist, though I wouldn't put that past him. He might have divorced before marrying Julia. There is an online grooms index for New York City. Let me check that. Back in a few.
John
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Oh heck, this is getting interesting and I have to go off-line for a while, can't be avoided, Be back as soon as poss though. Have pm'd you Johnnyboy.
Silas
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Sorry if I can't be overly helpful ::) as I don't have any credits left for SP but if that 1900 marriage in Glasgow is y'fella then it will tell you if he is a bachelor etc - though I appreciate Julia is after Lizzie.
Scots certificates give a heck of a lot more information so you can generally be certain you have your couple.
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Thanks for that Pam. I have requested a look-up on the Scottish board too.
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No sign of a Joseph Wigglesworth in the online New York City grooms index, but it starts in 1908, giving him a few years to get divorced and remarry in New York before the records begin. So a divorce from one wife and a second marriage in New York City between 1906 and 1908 can't be discounted entirely.
John
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Well he may actually have had only one - who knows at this point.
Who also knows whether this Joseph who emigrated (or was he only visiting) is the same man. Was he not perhaps Joe not Joseph Wigglesworth and just a red herring!
Births Sep 1873
Wigglesworth Joe Huddersfield 9a 334
Everything requires evidence otherwise you play a dangerous game called assumptions. I think there are just to many 'jumping to unproven conclusions' going on here.
The evidence produced so far does not prove that Joseph Wigglesworth born Castleford married a woman called Lizzie. I think there is probably sufficient evidence to say he married or lived with in America a woman called Julia.
Who travelled to America with the two Lizzies is still up for grabs, as is who married in Glasgow in 1900 - Lizzie Wigglesworth the child was 8 in 1906!
Regards
Valda
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This rules out the Joe from Huddersfield as a candidate
Deaths Sep 1875
WIGGLESWORTH Joe 2 Huddersfield 9a 213
this shows that other Josephs were known as Joe since there seem to be no birth registrations to go with these Joes - only possible Josephs.
Marriages Dec 1894
Wigglesworth Joe Leeds 9b 627
Marriages Dec 1899
Wigglesworth Joe Wakefield 9c 91
The only other two Joseph Wigglesworth birth registrations are not spot on for the Joe who emigrated but at least one is very close.
Births Mar 1872
Wigglesworth Joseph Edwin Halifax 9a 458
and slightly further away
Births Jun 1876
WIGGLESWORTH Joseph Haslingden 8e 193
Births Dec 1871
WIGGLESWORTH Joe Wakefield 9c 44
Lets see what the Scots census turns up - might be the Joseph might not!
Regards
Valda
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Everything requires evidence otherwise you play a dangerous game called assumptions. I think there are just to many 'jumping to unproven conclusions' going on here.
Valda
Sorry Valda, I wasn't jumping to conclusions when I mentioned that marriage entry, I just thought it was worthy of further investigation.
Silas, What was Joseph's occupation by the way on his marriage cert to Emily? It would be interesting if it was a bricklayer.
Kath
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Kath you are quite right that everything found should be mentioned but you are also right that just because it is found does not mean that it will turn out to be a useful piece for this jigsaw puzzle. We have to work out whether iin the end it fits or not.
There are three Joseph Wigglesworths on the 1891 census all born within 2 years of 1873 (not sure who they all are from the birth registrations) and two Joe Wigglesworths. At least one had a father who was a bricklayer.
Regards
Valda
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Hi all: I'm not jumping to conclusions either. Especially where transatlantic movement seems to be involved. The only conclusion I've reached is that the Joe Wigglesworth who emigrated from Scotland (but who was born in England) was a bricklayer, the same occupation pursued by the Joseph Wigglesworth who was married to Julia in New Jersey.
John
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Right, I'm back. On Joseph's marriage certificate to Emily the date of marriage is 26 March 1894 and he is a labourer, that surely rules out the Joe who married in Dec 1894. I've had a reply on the Scotland Board and there is a Joseph Wigglesworth with wife Elizabeth aged 26 and daughter Catherine aged 4 weeks in Govan, parish of Partick.
Silas
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Sorry, forgot to say it is the 1901 census in Scotland.
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Johnyboy - looks as though you were right when you said Joseph Wigglesworth arriving on the Caledonia on 1st May - last place of residence Partick then. Marital status says Married.
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Silas: I'm assuming you received the manifests. Yes, the only connections between the English-emigrated Joseph Wigglesworth and the Scottish-emigrated Lizzie Wigglesworth are (1) that Lizzie's husband Joseph and the English Joseph have the same middle initial and (2) the Joe Wigglesworth who emigrated from Partick and the Joseph Wigglesworth who lived in New Jersey were both bricklayers. Is that enough evidence to make any leaps?
I checked various New York State naturalization indexes for people living in and around New York City. The only Wigglesworth naturalizations on them were George Enoch W. and Elizabeth W. together in 1929 in New York City; they both were about 60 years old.
New Jersey naturalizations are held at the state and county level. Bergenfield, N.J. is in Bergen County. I'll give the clerk's office there a quick telephone call tomorrow to see how accessible their records are.
Not sure what else can be done. More evidence has to be found that connects one or the other of the Joseph Wigglesworth(s) in the U.K. and the Joseph Wigglesworth in the U.S.
John
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Thanks John - have pm'd you.
Silas
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Silas it is up to you whether you pursue the marriage in Glasgow in 1900 Kath found. If this is the same Joseph found on the 1901 census in Glasgow (marrying a little late for a child born in 1898 - who appears not to be with her parents in 1901, but if born illegitimately she might appear in another name with perhaps her maternal grandparents somewhere), it would nail it one way or the other. If you had bigamous marriage issues you might marry a little later. Either this Joseph (if he is marrying an Elizabeth - can you tell Kath from the index?) has a father Richard a glass bottle maker or not. If he does then you have his 'proven' movements from England to Scotland and onto to America.
Regards
Valda
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I absolutely agree with Valda, the marriage entry would hopefully prove/disprove whether this is your Joseph or not.
Unfortunately there is no way to tell from the index, if the Joseph Wigglesworth marrying in 1900 is to an Elizabeth, as you need at least the first two characters of the surname to do a search :(
The good thing about the Scottish marriage certs, is that they give far more information on them, than the English equivalents, i.e. both parents name, even the mothers maiden name.
Regards,
Kath
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Thanks Kath and Valda. I have offspring from ancestors in Australia - where Ellen Wigglesworth ended up - managed to trace them a while back and am in touch with a couple, so think I'll do some gentle questioning there - who knows, they may have heard things about Joseph. Thank you for all your help.
Silas
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Silas: Contacted the Bergen County N.J. clerk's office. They have an index to naturalizations occurring in the county and have checked it. No sign of Joseph M. Wigglesworth's naturalization there. That's odd. I would have expected him to have been naturalized in Bergen County. He was living there in 1917 (for the World War I draft registration), two years before he was naturalized in 1919.
I also contacted the town of Bergenfield, where Joseph Wigglesworth actually resided from at least 1971 to 1930. They usually charge for searches. As a courtesy, they checked the records from 1947-1955. They have no record of his death in those years. I wasn't persuasive enough to get them check earlier years.
Finally, I've contacted the local library in Bergenfield and have the reference librarian on the case. She's still to report back.
Regards,
John
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Gosh Johnnyboy you really have been busy and I hope the Library can track him down. Although, knowing, or thinking we know, his track record he's probably fled to yet another place leaving another 'wife' behind. Thank you so much for your efforts on my behalf. If your latest attempt comes up with nothing, I will leave it for the present. Cheers and thanks again.
Silas.
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Hi Silas: I heard back from the library in Bergenfield. The only information the reference librarian was able to dig up was a listing in the 1926 city directory confirming that "Mr. & Mrs Joseph M. Wigglesworth resided at 150 West Clinton Avenue" in Bergenfield. In 1947, she said, the house was occupied by two families, but she didn't name them.
If I learn anything else, I'll post it.
Regards,
John
:o :o :o
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Johnnyboy - thank you very much for that info. I wonder if it was my Joseph and his 'wife'. What do you think?
Silas.
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Some interesting news, a friends credits were due to expire with SP, and asked if I needed anything. So naturally, I jumped at the chance :D
Anyway, we have looked up the marriage entry in 1900 and it is Joseph Wigglesworth, a bricklayer journeyman to Elizabeth Gillespie and the parents of Joseph are given as Richard Wigglesworth, bottlemaker and Sarah Wigglesworth (maiden name Morris).
Haven't got time to write more, but I had to let you know this straight away. I'll get back with more info later.
Kath
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Kath - thank you so much, what a turn-up !! Wonder if he was divorced from Emily when he married Elizabeth. The marriage to Emily was 1894. I would have thought it was difficult and expensive to get divorced at that time. Anyway, thank you for taking the trouble to look for me - I'm thrilled !!
Silas
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Hi all: Congratulations on the marriage in Scotland news. The question now becomes one of determining what happened in Joseph Wigglesworth's life in the 11 years between 1906, when Lizzie Wigglesworth arrived in the U.S. with her daughter (who by the way is identified also as Lizzie on the passenger manifest) and 1917, when his WWI draft registration lists wife as Julia.
One possible search involves a divorce of Joseph and Lizzie in either New York or New Jersey, or the death of Lizzie. Then there's a remarriage in either New York or New Jersey with Julia.
I'm trying to find where these records are. Whereabouts of records for New Jersey naturalizations after 1906 are a mystery. I'll post as I find something.
It's also wise to keep in mind the possibility that we're dealing with two different Joseph Wigglesworths here.
Regards,
John
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It was definitely my Joseph though that married Elizabeth Gillespie in 1900 - his parents are the correct ones, plus his father Richard's occupation, so we're right that far.
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Hi,
I would hazard a guess, that Emily and Joseph weren't divorced, but you never know :P
On the marriage entry Joseph is down as 'bachelor' and they were married in Partick,on the 29 Dec 1899, the entries were made in 1900, if you would like a copy of the entry, send me a PM of your e mail address and I'll get it off to you.
Elizabeth Gillespie jnr was born illegitimately to Elizabeth on the 16 Sep 1897, wonder if she was Joseph's, if she was, why did they wait so long to marry?
Catherine Green Wigglesworth, (Green was Elizabeth's mother's maiden name), whom was on the 1901 died aged 4 in Partick.
It is going to be interesting to see what John manages to find out for you.
Kath
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Thank you for that info Kath. I doubt he was divorced from Emily either. How did folk bigamously marry in those days, because I believe it was quite a common occurrence. How did they get away with it - I would be interested to know. If he was down on the marriage entry as bachelor - surely he was lying, because the correct description would have been divorcee or 'previous marriage dissolved' ?
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Census info from Scotland...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=193105.msg957994#msg957994
I am locking the Scotland thread as we don't want duplication of effort on a pay per view website.
Great detective work ;D
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Hi Silas and others: I checked around for Joseph Wigglesworth's naturalization record, but have been unable to find out where they might be archived. The New Jersey State Archives have naturalizations only until 1906; Bergen County, where Joseph appears to have been naturalized (naturalized in 1919; residing Bergenfield at least 1917-1930), doesn't seem to have them archived.
I did look at Joesph's WWI draft registration again. He lives in New Jersey, but says his employer is in Maryland (Annapolis, Anne Arundel County). Could be just the head office is there. But on his passenger manifest in 1904, he says his ultimate destination is Baltimore. Have no idea if that is significant.
His wife Julia, I noticed from the census, is of German ancestry. On the draft registration her name is not readable. Valda thought it might be Minow(?). I think it might be Arnow, but there is no crossbar for the A.
At any rate, I noticed on Lizzie Wigglesworth's manifest that husband Joseph Wigglesworth's address was given as 1489 Avenue A, Manhattan. That address would be 1489 York Avenue today, I think, as the name of part of Avenue A was changed years ago to York Avenue. That would place the address in what in 1906 was a predominantly German American neighborhood. Have no idea if that is significant either, except that it would have given Joe the opportunity to meet Julia, a German American.
John
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Hi Johnnyboy this gets curiouser by the day - so Julia could be of German origin then. Wonder what happened to his 2nd 'wife' Elizabeth then and whether he ever legally married anyone after poor Emily. I do know that his grandaughter whose mother was Ellen - the illegitimate child, is still living and in Australia (named Doreen), but I know little about her and in fact am trying to find out her birthdate. Anyway, thank you for the extra information.
Silas
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Well folks I think we've got as far as we can with this research now - what a lot you have all turned up for me and I can't thank you enough. Thanks to Kath, Valda, Pam and Johnnyboy - especially you Johnnyboy with all the American research. Don't hesitate to contact me though if you find out any more about the terrible Joseph. Thank you all.
Silas
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I happened to come across this thread while doing some genealogical research. Amazing what google comes up with sometimes! I am a descendant of Joseph Wigglesworth, born in Castleford and who settled in NJ. I've done a bit of research on him and would be glad to answer any questions if I can. It will take me a little while to make my way through this thread. As far as I knew, my Joseph had only two marriages, to Elizabeth Gillespie and Julia Kinow. Would be interested to find out more of what you know.
Heather
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The daughter Lizzie who immigrated with Elizabeth was born in 1905 - she was 8 months, not 8 years. I assume she died young because I know nothing else about her. Their daughter Mary was born in 1906.
Elizabeth died in 1914 and is buried in New Jersey with Joseph and 2nd (or 3rd?) wife Julia.
The marriage to Julia Kinow took place 4 Jul 1915. They had three daughters, Alice, Edna, and Ruth. Edna was my grandmother. Julia died in 1928, probably from complications of childbirth.
Joseph built their house on Clinton Ave and later lost it during the Depression. He also helped to build the Empire State Building. He died in 1950.
I am very interested to find out about the 1894 marriage and Ellen (edited to correct name).
Thanks!
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Well, I have established that hmpollard's Joseph and mine are one and the same person - we have been communicating by email to each other. Still not sure though whether Joseph ever divorced Emily before he married Elizabeth Gillespie.
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I wouldn't mind trying to get the Scottish marriage certificate for Joseph and Elizabeth, if it isn't too much $$... I don't know the date though, only that it was 1900. Maybe it will state if he was divorced or not, however it does appear that he was trying to escape the situation by leaving the country.
Do you think Ellen may have a baptism record in the Castleford parish registers? Maybe it will list her father's name. Castleford Parish Church of England? I could take a look at the LDS films.
Could Joseph and Emily possibly have had a pre-arranged marriage? I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around his apparent actions... Was it just a really terrible moment of weakness? Did he flip out after tying the knot and realizing it's implications? Was he regretful? Did he and Emily try to work things out or did he run in shame? As far as I know, he conducted himself well after this major scandal.
I have written to Ruth's son Steve, who has also done a bit of genealogical research, though his is more focused on living relatives. Ruth is Joseph's only surviving daughter (that I know of ;)). I am wondering if Steve will find out if she knew anything about this.
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Hi hmpollard,
I may still have the Scottish marriage cert for Joseph and Elizabeth, I will check this evening when I am back from work.
Kath
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Kath,
That would be great! And sorry, I realize now that not too far back in this thread you said you had taken a look at the certificate, and that he reported himself to be a bachelor. This is a long thread and I am still playing catch-up! Nonetheless, I'd still love to have a copy of it if you still have it. If not, it is no big deal. Thank you!
I wish there were some way I could understand or know the circumstances surrounding the situation. That is the problem with genealogy, when something is uncovered, it always brings up so many more questions!!
This whole story is truly mind-boggling. I am pretty sure no one in my family knew of this.
I wonder if Joseph told anyone. He brought Julia, my grandmother Edna, and her sister Alice to visit Castleford in 1927. I think he must have visited his parents whom he had not seen since the situation over 30 years before. I wonder if anyone brought up the incident. It must have taken some courage to go back. His parents both died a few years after their visit, so I think it must have been nice for him to see them again. I wonder if he knew Ellen was no longer living in Castleford.
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It certainly is an interesting situation :)
I have found the marriage cert, also the death cert for daughter Catherine aged 3 and ? months in 1904 as well as the birth of Elizabeth Harper Gillespie born illegitimately on 16 Sep 1897.
If you would like to PM me with your email address, I will forward them on to you.
Regards,
Kath
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I am wondering if Joseph's marriage to Emily Clarkson might have been annulled for non-consumation - this may explain his carry-on with her sister Fanny and also Emily reverting to her maiden name after Joseph cleared off? Just a thought. Was there such a thing as annullment in those days?
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Hello All
I've been following this thread with interest for a while now (better than the soaps onTV) and couldn't resist the temptation to chip in. From 1858 onwards all divorces and annullments are listed in J77 at the National Archives, which you can search on their website for free, and there is no divorce/annullment for Joseph and Emily Clarkson.
I discovered this after researching a bigamist in my own family, but in his case he didn't go as far as Scotland, just Sunderland. Back in those days, who would know if a stranger who turned up in town was married or not, and how would you ever find out for sure unless the previous spouse showed up and made a fuss? The formality of a divorce was only for the rich and well-connected. In my gt-grandad's brother's case he said he was a batchelor on the second wedding certificate even though I can find his first wife, also remarried with children, still alive on the census. She remarried before he did and I can't say I blame her, as he served two months in prison for beating up her and her mother; she had left him after two months of marriage after he threatened to murder her!
All your evidence seems to point to Joseph Clarkson being a bigamist and a rogue, but of course he's not the only guilty party. I'm sure Fanny must have been aware of the consequences of a fling with her sister's brand new husband before she embarked on it, not to mention the effect it would have on her sister.
Best wishes
Liz
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Oops! Just realised I should have been looking for Joseph Wrigglesworth not Clarkson. It's past my bedtime. But I've had another look on the national archives database and there's no divorce for Joseph and Emily Wrigglesworth either.
Best wishes
Liz
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Thank you, Liz. There are so many resources that I am not aware of. I very much appreciate you checking.
I agree, it is like a soap opera, and my grandma loved watching her soapies... Little did we all know that her father had such drama in his background.
I also think that he just fled to Scotland and then the US, to start over where no one knew him. I'm just surprised that he had the nerve to come back in 1927 with his family. I am probably being optimistic in thinking that maybe he made some sort of amends.
Am I correct that Fanny was only about 16 when she had Ellen? Yikes.
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Fanny Clarkson was born in 1878. Her illegitimate child Ellen was born in 1895.
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Hi All,
Have been following these posts with much interest .Firstly the whole scenario is fascinating reading, secondly Joseph Wigglesworth is the son of Richard and Sarah Harriet Wigglesworth nee Morris.Sarah Harriet was the sister of my fathers grandmother Mary.Mary and my GG Grandfather William Gledhill came out to Australia in 1883 on the ship Iberia, where William worked in the Glass Bottle Works in Spotswood, Victoria.(Same proffession as Richard)Sarah and Mary's parents were Sarah Lingard and Joseph Morris.Both William Gledhill and Mary Morris lost a parent at ages 44 and 35 respectively.Three years after William and Mary married,their sole remaiming parents married each other! Mary and Sarah's brother John is listed as a step son in the 1881 cenus.Just an additional piece of trivia to add to this amazing story. Living in Victoria I was able to purchase and download the death certificate for Ellen Clarkson Stannard who is buried about a hour from us in Geelong.Interestingly her name on the death certificate has been miss transcribed.It states father unknown Wrigglesworth and mother Fanny Wrigglesworth mn Clarkson.It was great to be able to follow a story through and then look at a certificate.Amazing to read also how you all pieced togeth the jigsaw.Cheers from Australia. Erika.
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Hello Smiley.
Fanny Clarkson, who gave birth to Ellen was my grandmother's sister. Fanny eventually married a George Goodall in 1919. George Goodall was born in 1875. My maternal grandmother was Lucy Clarkson. I have been able to track down Ellen's descendants in Australia and am in touch with them.
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Hi Silas.
Now that's what I call genealogy !
I bet you really enjoyed it aswell didn't you. What a great story.
Having been through a similar, protracted search (2years+) for my GtGrandma, I know what work you have put in. And the help from others on this marvellous website is priceless isn't it.
I live in Castleford and wondered if you'd found the resting places of those of your clan who may have ended their days in our town. If you let me Know details I may be able to help.
Regards, David
ps.... if Richard Wigglesworth died in 1929 (2 years after the visit of his wayward son), I think I know where he is.
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Yes David, I have thoroughly enjoyed this particular part of my genealogy search. It came as a bit of a shock though! Yes, the folk on this site are great, they really are! Have sent you a personal message.
Silas.
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If Ellen died in Australia her records would probably have her parents on the death record (if the informant knew them and gave them to the Government.). In Queensland the death records are on the net I think up till 1964, and the parents are mentioned if given. In other states you might have to buy a certificate.
sabrina
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Thanks Sabrina. Ellen's parentage has already been established - mother, Fanny Clarkson and father, Joseph Wigglesworth (Fanny's brother-in-law). Thank you though. :)
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Hi all,
I just noticed multiple replies to this thread, I haven't checked it in a while.
Silas, I am very interested in contacting Ellen's descendants also. Please message me if you are willing to share. Thanks. I still have not heard from my grandmother's sister, the only surviving child of Joseph. Perhaps if I had some contact information, I could write to her again.
I have photos of Richard and Sarah's gravesite. The are in Castleford New Cemetery.
And hi Erika! I have been meaning to reply to your message on ancestry... Just need to find the time.
Heather
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Have sent you a personal message Heather.
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Hi Silas and Heather,
Thanks for your messages.As I said to Heather Silas, it is so great to see how collectively people can assist one another with these family searches.I always feel so in awe of those of you who have the investigative work down pat!! I am just a newbie and still learning the ropes, so I wonder how much you longtime genealogists realise you are teaching us through the process.Thanks immensley for taking the time.As I mentioned, I have an image of the death certificate for Ellen Stannard.Am more than willing to pass it on to anyone who is interested, though I repeat it is only an image and not an original.For those interested you can download images or original certificates for a fee approx 18.50 Australian for the image and I think it is abt 28.00 for the original online at our Public Records Office, Victoria, Australia.(Hope I am allowed to say all that?)You will however need to submit credit card information.I have done this securely many times before with excellent results.When you come across a correct image in a family search, it certainly enables you to follow through and secure the image straight away, which is most exciting.The image that I have for Ellen Stannard states- Unknown Wrigglesworth (obviously mispelt) for fathers name and Fanny Wrigglesworth, maiden name-Clarkson for mother, occupation given as unknown.Those who are interested just PM me. Glad to see Silas that everyones efforts in solving this puzzle have enabled you to contact some more rellies.To me that is the ultimate, positive result. Heather I would be interested in those photos of Richards and sarah's graves if it isn't too much trouble.David, I have quite a few Gledhill relatives in Castleford that I am trying to get info on.Are you in a position to help me with a few details at all?Cheers. Erika
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Hi Erika.
I know a few Gledhills in Casleford myself - unsavoury bunch ;D ;D
Yes if you let me have what details you can, I'll look them up in the burial/cremation records. If I can find a grave, I'll photo it and email it to you.
Regards, David
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This is a very old thread but I recently found an article from the Dundee Courier, 19 Dec 1898, about Joseph Wigglesworth and his marital problems with Emily Clarkson. No mention of a child with her sister, but an interesting side to the story nonetheless.
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This article was under the heading "Divorce Cases", so I am glad to see that he was actually granted a divorce.
(I don't have my old email address so I had to re-register. -Heather)
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A couple more, stating basically the same.
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That certainly is an interesting side to the story, great find Heather. Nice to know that Joseph didn't marry Lizzie bigamously.
Would be interesting to see what happened to Emily.
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Hello! This thread is antique... but if you are still researching and are a descendant of Ellen's, please contact me at hnmpollard at gmail dot com. Joseph was my great grandfather and I would love to prove or disprove Ellen's paternity with dna testing if anyone is interested. Thanks!!