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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: SASHAR on Wednesday 30 August 06 01:51 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace the parents, siblings etc of Johann Gottlieb HEIN b.10.11.1849 Kalzig Brandenburg Germany. He may have had a brother Johann Christian HEIN b.c1844 Kalzig nr Zullichau. Johann Gottlieb m. Anna Caroline KLAER, in Germany, place & time unknown.
Their children:-
Augusta Bertha b. 3.7.1875 place unknown - Germany
Bertha Maria b.16.6.1876 as above
Carl Gustav b.6.10.1877 Lochau or Lochow Germany
Johann Gottlieb b. 10.4.1879 as above
Pauline Ernesteine b. 20.9.1880 Germany, place unknown
Freidrich Ernstine or Ernst b. 15.10.1882 Griesel, Brandenburg
They all migrated to Pt Adelaide, Australia in 1884 on the Procida.
It is believed Johann Gottlieb Snr. served in the Prussian Army 1870-1871 maybe against France or in France?
I am interested in finding the background of the Hein and Klaer families, if anyone can help - thanks, Sashar
Moderator Comment: If anybody can help, then please check out this well, to avoid duplication of efforts. Thanks :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,182745.0.html
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Hello Sashar,
Your ancestors lived in a region of the former German Empire that is now in Poland.
http://gov.genealogy.net/gov/ShowObjectSimple.do?id=KALZIGJO72SC
Kalzig is now Kalsk in Poland
Griesel = Gryzna
Züllichau = Sulechow
Both in a triangle formed by the towns of Swiebodzin (Schwiebus), Krosno-Ordzanskie (Krossen) and Sulechow (Zuellichau) – former German names in brackets
Have a look at this old map of Brandenburg, in the far eastern edge of the province
http://feefhs.org/maps/gere/ge-brand.html
Your next step is the Polish archives:
http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=177
Copies of some these old Prussian records may have ended up in German archives.
With such concrete information, I'm sure you must be able to make good progress.
Good luck,
Justin
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Hi Justin
Thankyou for your reply. I have had a look at the map, that's
the first time I have seen all the towns, so really appreciated.
I have also looked at the Polish Archives site - I'm still finding it hard to work my way through it so I took a punt and emailed the Archives in the hope that they may direct me.
Thanks so much for your advise, you sound so positive that I may find a link - I hope you're right.
Kind regards, Sashar
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Sashar,
I think there are a couple of Polish speakers in this forum. It might be worth while re-posting the info highlighting the Polish connection and begging for some language assistance.
All the best, Justin
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Thanks Justin - I will try the Polish angle - in appreciation, Sashar
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This site may prove useful.
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/BRG/neumark/index_e.htm
This is also a bilingual mailing list for thus region known as Neumark
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/brandenburg-l
Lochow (known as Lochowo) lies to the SW of Kalsk. A bit further SW is the village of Kije (Kay in German). There were definitely HEINs there.
Justin
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An even better map from 1938
http://brandenburg.rz.fhtw-berlin.de/landkarten/Neumark1.gif
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Hi Justin, Great map - thankyou.
I have joined the Brandenburg mailing list so I wait with anticipation at the results.
I checked out the Neumark site, entering the Hein name but I couldn't connect anything - still a bit limited with my understanding of it all.
However, I am really pleased with what you have sent me and I am following things up where I can.
Thanks again, Sashar
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Hi Sasha,
I am a decendant of "Freidrich Ernstine or Ernst" as you have written in your 1st post. He was my Grandfather. "Johann Gottlieb HEIN b.10.11.1849 " was my Great Grandfather.
*Johann Gottlieb Snr. served in the Prussian Cavalry 1870-1871 against France in the Franco prussian war.
I have a photo of him while in the Cavalry, and also later at old age while residing in Lobethal SA. Australia. The home where he lived at Lobethal still exists today.
Regards Grey Hair
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Thanks for contacting me.
My husband is a descendant of Freidrich's brother Johann Gottlieb b.1879.
I also have the Cavalry photograph, it's quite a treasure to have.
I believe if you make 2 more posts online, you can contact me offlist, if you wish.
Regards,
Sashar
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Hi Sashar,
I just noticed that you have only listed 6 children, I believe that there were 7 children from Johann Gottlieb Snr. The 7th child, Hulda Anna Karoline Hein was born at Callington SA 21/9/1884. She married Hugo Von Howell and later died 4/1/1940 aged 55yrs. She is buried at Lobethal
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Upon investigating further, my daughter has just discovered the closeness of relationship to a netball friend.. These two girls' great Grandfathers are brothers... through Johann Gottlieb Jnr & Friedrich Ernest.. Isn't it a small world.
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I did know of Hulda, I just listed the ones that came out from Germany thinking they may be connected to someone still in Germany.
Do you know much about the Klaer side of the family?
Regards,
Sashar
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Hi,
I am replying to this thread because my husbands great grandfather was Johann Christian Hein who came to Australia on the ship procida. Our understanding is that there was a son about 18 months old (my husbands granfather) also on the ship. We believe that johann christians wife was hermine and he also married twice more after each of the wives had died.
Can someone please help confirm any of this.
THank you
Julianne
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Have sent a private email to Julianne - Sashar :)
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Update.
Surname for this family was originally HEINE, as noted on a 1879 birth certificate for the son of Johann Gottlieb and Karoline/Caroline HEIN.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572010.0.html
HEINE is also written on the Procida passenger list. Karoline has her name on the passenger list as Johanna Aug. HEINE.
No mention is made on the passenger list of the name Karoline/Caroline which was the name used on the birth certificate linked above. She was known in Australia as Karoline/Caroline and that name is written on her cemetery headstone.
Maybe more information, such as a marriage c1874 Germany/Prussia, could be found using the names Johann Gottlieb and Johanna Aug. HEINE, nee KLAR/KLAER.
Appreciate any help.
Kind Regards,
Sashar
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Hi all! Sashar, I have a question- do you know John Schwarz from Australia? I try help found his ancestors- J.G.Hein or Heine. I think that his certificate birth are is Potsdam Archive in Germany.
Józef from Zielona Góra, Poland
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Hi Jozef, I do know John Schwarz, we are connected through the Hein/Heine family. I didn't know about Potsdam Archive so thankyou for that information.
I have found the births of J.G.& Caroline/Karoline Hein/Heine's 6 children in Preussen, 1875 - 1882. Some are registered as HEIN, some HEINE.
Thankyou for your help ...........Sashar
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Here is the data that I have from John Schwarz.
John is looking for a birth certificate this persons:
- Johann Gottlieb Hein, born in Kalzig 10.11.1849
- Johann Christian Hein, born in Kalzig 25.10.1843 ( his brother)
- Anna Caroline Klaer born 15.12.1845 ( wife Johann Gottlieb)
their children:
-Auguste Bertha born 03.07.1875
- Bertha Maria born 16.06.1876
- Carl Gustaw born 06.10. 1877 in Lochau ( polish Łochowo)
- Johann Gottlieb born 10.04.1879 in Lochau
- Pauline Ernestine born 20.09. 1880
- Friedrich Ernst born 15.10.1882 in Griesel ( polish Gryżyna)
Hamburg Passenger List- J. G. Heine:
(https://images82.fotosik.pl/1063/37bf57add6998aafmed.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/37bf57add6998aaf)
Hamburg Passenger List- J. Ch. Heine:
(https://images81.fotosik.pl/1062/a2b3a40db24d2dd7med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/a2b3a40db24d2dd7)
Birth of certificate Johann Gottlieb from 1879 y.
(https://images81.fotosik.pl/1062/5b374c8049bcc649med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/5b374c8049bcc649)
Birth of certificate Auguste Bertha from Lochau:
(https://images81.fotosik.pl/1062/05b95f118f476fb9med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/05b95f118f476fb9)
Birth of certificate Maria Bertha:
(https://images83.fotosik.pl/1061/39847c3e97eadb88med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/39847c3e97eadb88)
Kalzig and Lochau on this old map:
(https://images81.fotosik.pl/1062/8af089487b3f4d99med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/8af089487b3f4d99)
Sorry for the poor quality of scans.
I hope that this data will help in the search for these people.
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Hi Jozef,
I believe that we are still missing the birth and marriage records for:-
Johann Gottlieb HEIN/HEINE born 10.11.1849
Johann Christian HEIN/HEINE born 25.10.1843
Anna Caroline/Karoline KLAR/KLAER born 15.12.1845 (she may be Anna/Johanna Auguste Caroline KLAR/KLAER as on the Ships record of 1884).
Gottlieb & Caroline must have married around 1874.
I have found ALL the birth records for the children of Gottlieb & Caroline and their passage to Sth Australia in 1884. I also have their Sth Australian history.
I appreciate you sending all the information. The map has given me a better understanding of where the family lived and where Gottlieb & Caroline's children were born.
Thankyou.......Sashar
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My Polish friend found for me the birth certificate of the daughter of Johann Christian Heine-Hermine Emma. Christian's wife was Hermine Emilie née Woit.
I hope to find marriage and birth certificate for Johann Christian.
(https://images83.fotosik.pl/1061/b5829a7e06890669med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/b5829a7e06890669)
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Thankyou Jozef and friend - I didn't have the birth certificate of Hermine Emma - much appreciated, Sashar :)
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This is important document- Certificate of Naturalization Carl Gustav Hein from Kalzig.
(https://images84.fotosik.pl/1068/30e8ca7c47f6c0e5med.jpg) (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/30e8ca7c47f6c0e5)
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Thankyou Jozef - I do have all the South Australian records including Naturalization.
It is only records in Germany that I don't have. Thankyou for the German records that you have sent me.........kind regards, Sashar
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My Polish friends from the Lubuskie Genealogical Society are trying to help me find birth records for Johann Gottlieb and Johann Christian. I hope it will work!
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Thankyou Josef...........that would be wonderful news :D
Please thank your friends at Lubuskie Genealogical Society as well :D
I appreciate the help you are giving me from so far away, Sashar :D